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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Aug 2010 : 12:19:38
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Turk,interesting, I doubt if you will get a one numeral answer 
"It looks like we both inconsistence. Ok, here is my proposal in terms of options.
1. If Gambia want to implement western democracy, they need to comply with the western qualifications. Or
2. If Gambia want to implement something local, than western qualifications may not appy."
It all boils down to one thing,do you want The Gambia to join and participate in the world as it is now,or are you content with total traditional values? that is a personal choice, and may or may not be in the intersts of The Gambia.As a non Gambian I am outside this thought process,so can only observe.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 01 Aug 2010 12:25:48 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2010 : 14:15:41
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For me, there should not be a final decision. It is on-going process. During the times, you make progress, change the system, adopt the new system, apply different ideology. Maybe in the future the democracy we understand in western world may be successful in Gambia. My personal opinion, if I had to decide about Gambian political system, as I repeat that so many times, I would try to create a system based on the Gambia. I do not think Democracy as a government system we understand from west fits Gambia, at least for now. The system would be more like a non-partisan regime and power sharing system between local and central government. You can still have election process but party based democracy waste of time for Gambia. I do not think there are ideological differences in the parties in Gambia. If they don't have ideological differences why bother having parties. Gambia is small country, I would think Gambia as a city rather than big country. Gambia should strictly focus on development and establishing rule of law.
Gambian's so called democracy has some demographic and technical difficulties. One thing is anti-democratic in current system that Gambian political power is within elite. Only very small group is controlling both government and opposition. The mass groups for example, women, rural area are not part of the process. It is more like a class based. Democracy requires, discussion, debate which do not exist in Gambia. Because, most are not participating this process.
Janko has also mentioned, and my de-centralization of power/responsibility to local level may change Gambia for better. Some services, decision making, responsibility, authority such as taxation should be handled in local level. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2010 : 14:36:00
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OK turk I will join for a little as this is really nothing to do with me I have no knowlege of Gambian thought processes,its not fair really for me to make suggestions or comments, that said,here goes,IN an ideal world I agree with all you have said but the world is not ideal and neither is the Gambia or anywhere else,The Gambia and most of Africa suffers from the belief that there should be one supreme chief who tells everyone how its going to be,discussion and variations are not entertained neither is desent.Every country should develop its own system that should be seen to be "fair" and not hurt any section of the people,personally I do not know of any country that has achieved this state,there are many variations, but all are flawed in some way,power being being held by one or more people who have the final say.A counrty has to start from somewhere and all the population should be involved as you yourself envision.Tradition or Advancement into todays world is also very important to decide.China has developed its own system which is a mixture of modern and traditional BUT not everone is involved and again you have the few powerful people in charge,what they say goes.
I agree totally on your observation "there should not be a final decision. It is on-going process. During the times, you make progress, change the system, adopt the new system, apply different ideology. Maybe in the future the democracy we understand"
That's it for me, exhausted, no more, you carry on Turk. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 01 Aug 2010 14:37:06 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2010 : 23:39:37
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turk,
If reading and writing English is the qualifier as to who should be a representative then the problem of representation remains unsolved. The aim and objective of reforming the system of representation is to include those who can not write or read English, but have other qualities.
Well, believe it or not the Arabic alphabet has been and is still used to write Gambian languages. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2010 : 02:44:38
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I never said only requirement. But it is a start. You are right, there must be a system to involve everyone into political process. My de-centralization idea, moving power/decision making/authority and responsibility to the locals would have the representation. Imagine, village directly participate school board administration, hospital administration, even the one USA does, electing the sheriff officer and judges. It is already happening in Gambia, I have seen village gathering to talk about the issues but it was more informal and for specific issues.
When i were in Gambia, all arabic writings I have seen were only for Islam. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2010 : 08:03:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Janko
turk,
If reading and writing English is the qualifier as to who should be a representative then the problem of representation remains unsolved. The aim and objective of reforming the system of representation is to include those who can not write or read English, but have other qualities.
Well, believe it or not the Arabic alphabet has been and is still used to write Gambian languages.
Janko, forget about English. The argument is that "reading and writing (literacy)is a prerequisite for political representation" in today's world. It does not matter much what language one is literate in, but it does matter what direction the nation has opted for. The Gambia (like most former British/English colonies, U.S. and India included)has opted for English language whether by design or default. Therefore, literacy in the English language is an absolute necessity for effective political representation. If the Gambia had chosen the Arabic option, then those literate in Arabic would be very critical in political and other representation. But again the Arabic option is another form of colonialism, isn't it? Traditional figure heads and opinion leaders who drive support of their constituencies for the central govt whose policies they don't even understand on paper are not representatives but stooges. Representation can only be based on consent, and consent can only be based on knowledge, and the basis of knowledge/education is literacy... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 02 Aug 2010 12:04:12 |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2010 : 11:55:14
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KAY, you lost your  there, and almost became   |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 02 Aug 2010 11:57:00 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2010 : 12:05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
KAY, you lost your there, and almost became
okay will try to get it back next time Toubab... |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2010 : 21:05:51
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Kay,
when we talk about reading and writing (literacy) in the Gambian context, it explicitly means reading and writing English, that’s my reason of blatancy. Meaningful knowledge is not only gotten from reading and writing English, nor is the acquisition of knowledge dependant on it.
…”literacy in the English language is an absolute necessity for effective political representation”, (elitist propagation) is advocating for a status quo and a mindset that led us to where we are today. That mindset has brought us no improvements economically or politically since independence. Why should it not be reformed and made inclusive? History has made it clear that literacy in the English language does not solve the problems of democracy or development and as a qualifier for representation, it has mostly created dictatorships in different forms, and in almost all cases excluding the majority. Therefore, representation has to be based on criterions that are more locally anchored.
It is not about blaming colonialism or resenting the English language rather it is about understanding and interpreting the colonial experience to fit our condition. It is about finding a way-out of the stagnation. To combine Arabic and English is not only broadening the scale of representation but also innovative. Hence a desperate situation calls for desperate measures.
In fact broadening the scale of representation to include none English literates fit our situation in "today’s world" better than ever before. Hence the dictatorship of the English literate elite has molded us into the underdeveloped consumers we are.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2010 : 00:05:13
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Janko..........please stop trying to baffle us simple souls with all this complicated wording that you use here,it gives me a headache, I know I am a toubab (and one whose forefathers were colonialists!) and as such should not be tolerated,but have some thought for my poor head please!  |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 03 Aug 2010 00:08:45 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2010 : 01:06:37
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Janko, Pulaar, Wolof and Nko Script can also be added to the script all written languages can be used for the narratives involved in the national discourse to be propelled forward.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2010 : 02:20:05
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Sista
Are these script still used? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2010 : 12:02:35
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Toubab 1020,
you know what to do or take when you get headache, so please help yourself. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2010 : 12:17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Janko, Pulaar, Wolof and Nko Script can also be added to the script all written languages can be used for the narratives involved in the national discourse to be propelled forward.
Peace Sister Omega
Sister O,
indeed, and with Arabic I mean the use of Arabic alphabet to write, Pulaar, Wolof, Nko etc. not the Arabic language as such. Unlike the English literates the Arabic literates have mastered the art of using the Arabic alphabet to write our languages.
It is hard for turk and toubab 1020 to understand that Gambian languages are written with the help of both Latin/Roman and Arabic alphabets.... is too advance for them to grasp. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2010 : 12:19:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Kay,
when we talk about reading and writing (literacy) in the Gambian context, it explicitly means reading and writing English, that’s my reason of blatancy. Meaningful knowledge is not only gotten from reading and writing English, nor is the acquisition of knowledge dependant on it.
…”literacy in the English language is an absolute necessity for effective political representation”, (elitist propagation) is advocating for a status quo and a mindset that led us to where we are today. That mindset has brought us no improvements economically or politically since independence. Why should it not be reformed and made inclusive? History has made it clear that literacy in the English language does not solve the problems of democracy or development and as a qualifier for representation, it has mostly created dictatorships in different forms, and in almost all cases excluding the majority. Therefore, representation has to be based on criterions that are more locally anchored.
It is not about blaming colonialism or resenting the English language rather it is about understanding and interpreting the colonial experience to fit our condition. It is about finding a way-out of the stagnation. To combine Arabic and English is not only broadening the scale of representation but also innovative. Hence a desperate situation calls for desperate measures.
In fact broadening the scale of representation to include none English literates fit our situation in "today’s world" better than ever before. Hence the dictatorship of the English literate elite has molded us into the underdeveloped consumers we are.
Janko I think you are completely out of touch not only with the realities of the Gambia...
I think like it used to be done to our Soviet graduates, you need to be sent to the U.K. for re-orientation... |
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