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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Dec 2009 : 22:37:18
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Turk I conceed your point,the words used in the inital post could have been better chosen. I am not a Scholar so I cannot write with any authority on Religions, peoples beliefs are personal. To kill innocents is bad.
I am but a mortal thefore you speak the truth when you write "you don't know nothing." Only God knows all.
I will leave this topic now I have expressed my views.
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Originally posted by turk
toubab
read the initial post again. Or quotes below....If you do not see the insult of "islam in general", you don't know nothing.
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…….. in the name of this Arab cult called islam.
……this dangerous Arab cult ………… islamic terrorism…..couple with the muslim criminal mafia of ………it is perhaps time for muslims to be barred from standing at general elections until they get their priorities in order…… or they can stand but should not be elected to the post of presidency……..All muslim propaganda programs which dominate our radio and television services should be banned.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 30 Dec 2009 22:38:13 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2009 : 23:26:15
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Toubab
You do not have to be scholar or authority. This is simple principle. Do not generalize. I condemned the violent attack on civilians by any individual or state. The association of terrorism with "Muslims" or "Islam" is wrong. There are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world. One out of four men or women walking on this planet is Muslim. Arabs are only 15 % of whole Muslims. Only Indonesia has more Muslims than all Arabs. Islam is today from Bosnia, Albania, Kosova, to Tataristan, Trinidad, China to South Africa. Biggest Religion on the earth. It is not a cult.
When I said "you don't know nothing", I meant that if you can't see the unfair association of terrorism with Islam, that means you don't know anything about what is going on here. My apologies for offending you if I did.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2009 : 23:59:42
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Thanks for Clarifing your position,I am not offended.
quote:
Originally posted by turk
Toubab
You do not have to be scholar or authority. This is simple principle. Do not generalize. I condemned the violent attack on civilians by any individual or state. The association of terrorism with "Muslims" or "Islam" is wrong. There are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world. One out of four men or women walking on this planet is Muslim. Arabs are only 15 % of whole Muslims. Only Indonesia has more Muslims than all Arabs. Islam is today from Bosnia, Albania, Kosova, to Tataristan, Trinidad, China to South Africa. Biggest Religion on the earth. It is not a cult.
When I said "you don't know nothing", I meant that if you can't see the unfair association of terrorism with Islam, that means you don't know anything about what is going on here. My apologies for offending you if I did.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 00:04:16
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Why do people refused to see things the way they are rather than how they want things to be. Islamic terrorist practice the religion of islam and obey the Quran whether you like it or not. In fact, before they strike they refer directly to verses of the Quran. We all know this. Just because you are blinded by your own indoctrination does not mean everyone has to be like you. You can't just say they don't understand the Quran and have misinterpreted it. These people spent years studying it. Taught to them by the muslim scholars who are highly respected within the field of islam. It is insulting not just to them and the rest of decent society who do not adhere to this cult, but also to islam the ‘religion’ you profess to love and protect. We all know islam originated from Arab paganism [whether you like it or not]. We also all know it is a cult which you must submit as a slave at whatever cost. We also know it is an evil and violent cult [whether you like it or not] – history past and present speaks for itself. We also know it encourages killing, enslaving and raping anyone who does not belong to this cult. It would be foolish to try and instil what you want it to be rather than what it actually is. If you are going to follow a religion, you should follow it for what it is but don’t go there trying to change it. If you do so, then you are certainly not a Muslim but a hypocrite. We seem to have lots of muslim hypocrites in Africa and particularly in Senegambia who prohess to be Muslims yet when things are hard and they have not been granted their wishes by their Arab God they go back to the traditional belief of their forefathers then profess again to be muslims most of whom don’t even pray five times a day but look forward to Tobaski and Korite [names they borrowed from Animism] with glee so they can borrow up to the hilt to show off their children’s new attire and theirs to their neighbours. Those that pray five times a day many of them don’t even know what they are saying when they recite verses from the Quran. They are merely praying because they consider it an insurance policy.
In any case, the object of this thread was this Nigerian boy who have been indoctrinated and the potential of breeding more Islamic terrorists in Senegambia, Wes Africa and other parts of the continent – i.e. Al Quaida training ground. It is not an over exaggeration. If this intelligent young boy from Nigeria [one of our neighbours] can result to such barbarism in the name of this cult, isn’t worrying that we will be breeding more people like this and then have training camps? After all, lets not forget most of our leaders are very close to the Arabs than to European leaders in their desire to stick two fingers up to their former colonisers. Unfortunately for them, they left one evil behind and are entering another perhaps something even worst. Let’s not forget also that we have majority muslim and the loyalties of these people is with the Arabs and not with the Europeans/West but most worryingly, not to the land of their forefathers I have heard people on this very site made claims like that e.g. Mansasulu. Further, the action of this Nigerian boy proves my case. With all his education [an education nurtured in Nigeria but developed in Europe] and his background, instead of using that advantage to develop the land he came from and help his own people he want to go an help an Arab cult where the God is sitting on Arab sky – and Arab people whom he view as getting a raw deal whilst his own people in many parts of the continent are dying/suffering including the land of his ancestors and in other parts of Africa, the Arabs whom he viewed as getting a raw deal are killing and enslaving his own people. How pathetic. I would have tought it was common sense to liberate your own before liberating others.
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Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 31 Dec 2009 00:13:11 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 02:43:35
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| Just the title of this thread alone shows to all Tamsier's anti Islam agenda-a fact he would gladly admit to. For Allah sake let people believe man... |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 08:06:47
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Toubab
You do not have to be scholar or authority. This is simple principle. Do not generalize. I condemned the violent attack on civilians by any individual or state. The association of terrorism with "Muslims" or "Islam" is wrong. There are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world. One out of four men or women walking on this planet is Muslim. Arabs are only 15 % of whole Muslims. Only Indonesia has more Muslims than all Arabs. Islam is today from Bosnia, Albania, Kosova, to Tataristan, Trinidad, China to South Africa. Biggest Religion on the earth. It is not a cult.
When I said "you don't know nothing", I meant that if you can't see the unfair association of terrorism with Islam, that means you don't know anything about what is going on here. My apologies for offending you if I did.
I am convinced that many Muslims do not want to seriously comfront the issue of terrorism, either because they are aware that it is in deed associated with Islam but won't acknowlege it or that they are sympathetic to its cause.
When Mr. X's child, Z murders Mr. Y's child; and Mr. Y, in his anger blames Z (the murderer's) family for his (Z's)poor upbringing and anti-social behavior; Z's parent Mr. X need not engage in a fight or quarrel over the reference to the family in as much as he should focus on how to confront the evil in his child and redeem the image of the family. Any prolonged furious engagement over the mention of the family name will indicate Mr. X's lack of seriousness about confronting and resolving the problem in his child, and this eventually can only further hurt the image of the family.
Historically, there have been several generalizations.
1. When we talked about the KKK, we often talk as if all Whites were involved, even though there were Whites who matched side-by-side with Dr. King.
2. When we talked about slavery, we talked as if all of the West were involved, even though there were large swaths of the Western world that were not involved in that despicale act.
3. When we talked about the Nazis, we often talked as if all of Hitler's Germany were involved, even though ...
4. When we talked about the Apartheid, we often talked as if there were only the Bothas; while ignoring the fact that the De Clarks; the Nadine Gordimers; and the poet,Dennis Brutus and other anti-apartheid Whites also existed.
5. When we talked about Africa, we often talked as if there were only the Idi Amins, the Mobutus, the Jammehs, the Charles Taylors, the Foday Sankohs, HIV, malnutrition, even though...
6. Equally, when we talked about terrorism, it is natural that we talked as if every Muslim (and Islam itself)is a terrorist, even though ...
The real answers to these problems are not to engage in bitter defensive arguments or temper tantrums about the family name (the religion itself in the case of terrorism). The answer lies in focusing on the big picture of how to resolve this problem and salvage the name of the faith. Unless that is done, the family name cannot be saved. Every time a suicide bomber detonates him or herself, he or she goes into flame with a piece of islam's good name. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 31 Dec 2009 08:16:27 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 09:59:01
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Considering the number of Muslims around the world and it is growing, only very small fraction involved terrorism or supported it as methodology. Most Muslims in the world are against. Individuals coming from Muslims communities committing the act of terrorism (criminal activity) are not overwhelmingly different from any other society. It is west demonizing and overstating it as a psychological warfare. There are reasons for that. First of all, Islam is the only ideology against and standing strong against Western values such as ‘Capitalism’ and offer alternatives to consumption based life style. Quran is strong and Muslims are devoted. Capitalism is having hard time to challenge the values of Islam. Islam is the enemy of West.
Look at the history. West has beaten every enemy and still struggling against Islam. They had no problem colonizing America, Animist Africa did not bother fighting, India was colony until recently, China has never challenged west until recently. West has been fighting with Islam since almost 1000 years ago when Muslims Turks took conquered Eastern Roman Empire. They had 300 years of crusaders campaign against Islam. They did win when Ottoman Empire collapsed 90 years ago but now Islam is on the rise again as higher birth and migration made west concern again about Islam. Another reason is that Muslims are strong ‘umma’ that is regardless of nationality, race and geography. That is why al-kaida is so successful. An African to Indonesian to Tajik can be unified based on common goal. There is no other ideology other than capitalism/western unifying people as strong as Islam. Islam is alternative to western/capitalism. It is against Globalization (new breed of Colonization).
Terrorism should not be associated with Islam, but you can associate with Muslims as they are human too. Muslims are no different from Tamils or Irish or Bask nationalists. You may be right that many Muslims may be sympathetic to the cause. It is not necessary they support the terrorism and they do condemn the methodology. Terrorism is a crime. So are Western attacks on i.e. Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Vietnam are equally immoral as terrorism. Or Atomic bomb dropped on civilians.
quote:
“Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich.”
- Peter Ustinov,
Terrorism is tactical war. Today no army is going to beat western army in classic war. They have the high tech weapons, nuclear, WMD superior to anyone in the world. You see Iraq did not/could not even fight with Americans with a war, they wanted to have guerilla warfare and they had success. Afghans are doing well with that strategy. Terrorism is tactical warfare. It is criminal, it is immoral but the war is itself immoral.
Look at the PKK in Turkey. Or IRA. Or ETA. Or Tamil Tigers. Or Hindu Nationalists. Or the Jewish Terrorist groups which blown up the King David hotel in Jerusalem killing hundreds of civilians. They all have use terrorism as they can’t deal with the army. It is a tactical and strategic method in war.
Personally, I condemn terrorism. And Muslims are the one suffer most from terrorist attacks and the west is the one benefits most. Let me tell you something. Western politicians want a terrorist attacks. I think 911 or the recent terrorist attack could have been prevented. There may have been a ‘let go’.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 10:03:07
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| I have heard with my ears muslim friends of mine condone or tried to justify Islamic terrorism. I have even seen this here on Bantaba by certain people e.g. Mansasulu not to forget the animals that organise demonstrations. Unless people get off their high horse and realise that islam does not have a place in modern society and it hinders development/advancement, especially in Africa, we will go nowhere and will always be at the mercy of this cult. There is no radio or television media in Senegambia that is not infested by islamic propaganda and dogma. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. This is just in Senegambia and I haven’t even touched the continent of Africa. All these media are good methods of instilling dangerous ideals to the young. By the time you know it, we will have Alquaida training schools right on our door step and we will be on the eyes of the world for the wrong reasons. We already have problems of our own. Must we succumb to this wicked faith to the detriment of our African Nations? Only the wicked and the unpatriotic would say yes to this. Sadly they are in the majority. Unless people get of their pedestals and see the devastating effects this cult is having in our nations rather than being defensive, we will always be in the gutter. You think I am the only one saying these things? People are thinking it and are very careful whom they speak to for the fear of repercussions. Those who speak about it like myself are demonised or branded as kafirs who will rot in hell, even on this very site. One of the few places where one is free to say what they really feel without being branded is in Sine [Senegal]. Thankfully, the vultures who call themselves brotherhoods have not penetrated that area. In the West, even on this site people are either to PC or fearful of expressing their thoughts about this cult in fear of being branded or a fatwar on their heads being issued. How can this be a true religion when you are even forbidden from asking questions and must always serve as a slave without question? How people can practice a religion blindly, forbidden from questioning is beyond my comprehension. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 31 Dec 2009 10:08:38 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 10:09:24
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Tamsier is angry. Because his religion was so weak against the greatest religion Islam. It could not compete. COuld not offer better. He is angry because his faith is disappearing from the earth. He is sad, disappointed and angry. He looks like lame duck and loser. Islam on the other hand is on the rise. Unifying people from Black Africa to Golden China. He can't accept that his own race, tribe and nation have chosen better.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 31 Dec 2009 10:10:31 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 10:18:16
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quote:
islam does not have a place in modern society and it hinders development/advancement, especially in Africa, we will go nowhere and will always be at the mercy of this cult.
Let me see!
Liberia, Cameroon. Madagascar are the ones with brownish color have significantly animist. Are they significantly developed nations as they do not have Islam. I don’t think so. So Animism or Christianity do not make Africa better. What is this dude barking?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 10:21:56
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| And look at the post of the animal that preceeds my previous post. Advertising islam as it is a brand name. Anyone who have worked in marketing would recognise some the language. This is the very tactic they use in order to entice you in. Once you are in you become their sacrificial lamb as a suicide bomber. The Animist Africans as this stupid boy had said who undoubtedly knows nothing about African history were always at war with the colonisers. They were the first before recent mass conversion especially in Senegambia. Even some of those 19th century African jihadists made deals with the Colonisers. Obviously this boy lacks intellect. If one is not well versed about something, one must shut up. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 31 Dec 2009 10:30:57 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 10:29:02
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You cannot distinguish Islam from capitalism, Turk. Islam embraced capitalism in its very essence. Western capitalsim incorporated democracy and freedoms. Communism failed to do that resulting in its catastophic collapse when Mikhail Gorberchev tried to fast forward it. Islam, as a political and economic ideology, is still resisting the incorporation of democracy and personal freedoms resulting in mass unhappiness, alienation, and resentment in the Muslim world...
I can present you an analysis of "Why they don't like us", and give you a dichotomy of the genesis of so much resentment (hatred) in the Muslim world against the West and the U.S. It has not much to do with capitalism, you will be surprised...
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 10:43:20
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Kayjatta
Islam has very different form of western capitalism. Significant difference that it is not 'wild capitalism' and it is not based on 'colonization', 'consumption'. However, you are right about personal freedom. Islam is controlling life that is the way Allah describe. Those are itself valid ground to distinguish Islam from Capitalist/Western Ideology. Islam is the alternative.
Tamsier does not response what I am saying because it doesn't have anything to say. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 11:08:53
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| Everyone knows I have barred and ex-communicated this Arab Mamaluk almost a year ago. Yet, this FNORD continues to follow my threads like a dog. I will respond to any question posed by someone else but I thought I have made it clear to this boy never to expect me to participate in his threads and vice versa. Further, this boy did not ask questions but copied and pasted as usual, then started to rant about something he obviously knew nothing about. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 11:43:20
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| 90 percent of your own nation ashamed of you. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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