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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 17:39:28
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Part 11 continues!
Christian Prayers - There are a number of prayers that will help you to speak to God.
Before reading from the Scriptures
Lord, help me to understand what you say to me, as I read your book, and give me the desire to live according to your teachings.
Amen
In search of faith
Help me Lord, to accept that I can't possibly know evrything, and to rest secure in the certainty that you are the source of all truth.
Amen
Seeking guidance
Lead me Lord, into the path of your choosing, and give me patience to follow in that pathway, however great the difficulties or uncertainties that may arise.
Amen
In praise of God
You are the fountain of all hope and goodness Lord.
Give me the will to share with others the blessings which in your love you have chosen to give me.
Amen
The Greatness and Glory of God
"Great is the Lord, and most worthy of praise!"
A Beautiful Hymns
John Newton, Olney Hymns (London: W. Oliver, 17 under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazing_Grace
"Amazing Grace"
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That sav’d a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears reliev’d;
How precious did that grace appear,
The hour I first believ’d!
Thro’ many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.
The Lord has promis’d good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.
Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease;
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.
The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who call’d me here below,
Will be forever mine.
Also one of my best traditional christmas carol I memorised since childhood at Primary school; WHILE SHEPHERDS WATCHED THEIR FLOCKS
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/w/s/wshepwtf.htm
To continue on; 'Quot homines tot Sententiae?
Refer useful link to answer all on Trinity under http://www.answers.com/trinity&r=67 |
Edited by - kobo on 26 Aug 2008 18:38:55 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 18:45:33
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Part 111 continues on researched Bible studies and what christians believe?;
Introduction
Notes:-
i) from The Oxford illustrated History of Christianity edited by John McManners stated;
"The Three persons of the Trinity (shown in medallions conjoined by angels - from an illumination in a gospel book of the early elelventh century). A representation of this kind could reinforce popular misconceptions, envisaging God in a way that borders on tritheism."
'Quot homines tot Sententiae?
ii) Maurice Wills wrote;
'Quot homines tot senttentiae?: There are as many opinions as they are people. |
Edited by - kobo on 26 Aug 2008 18:55:43 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 13:16:33
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Before Part III continues; I missed Power of Prayers!
Faith and devotion are very important. "When you pray regularly you will soon want to add prayers in your own words." ; as that of inspired AMAZING GRACE & WHILE SHEPARDS WATCH THEIR FLOCKS BY NIGHT and many others!
Before touching on 'Quot homines, tot sententiae?, we need to understand what is translated in the Bible about POWER, GLORY & GRACE OF GOD or the heart of christian faith into two parts (i.e trying to understand divergence or convergence of Old Testament & New Testament); as follows:-
I. Genesis (OLD TESTAMENT)
" The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
And God said, 'Let there be light,' and there was light.
God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
God called the light "day", and the darkness he called "night". And there was evening, and there was morning - the first day
And God said 'Let there be...!'" many times and it be!
II. John (NEW TESTAMENT)
"The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognise him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God - children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the Only Begotten Son; who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, sayong, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has supassed me because he was before me.'"
From the fulness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
No-one has ever seen God, but the Only Begotten Son, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Refer on wikipedia to translate latin 'Quot homines, tot sententiae?' under http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quot_homines,_tot_sententiae&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DQuot%2Bhomines%2Btot%2Bsententiae%2Bwikipedia%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
Now readers can connect on interesting extracts from Maurice Wiles commentary topic to explain; "What Christians believe?":-
"'Quot homines tot Sententiae?' i.e there are as many opinions as there are people. It is tempting to adapt the old adage and say that there are as many beliefs as there are Christians.
In one sense that is true. For beleif is a personal matter, and each of us belives in his or her own unique way. But belief is also a communal matter. We do not invent or develop our beliefs on our own.
We draw upon the beliefs of the community to which we belong for both the substance and the form of our believing. So the phrase 'What Christians believe?' could be filled out in two different ways.
Christians believe in God. But what do they mean by 'God'? Two streams, already beginning to merge before the christian era, have come together to feed distinctively christian belief in God. On the one hand, he is God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob; he is the God of the biblical story and it is there that we can learn the meaning of the word, there that we read his character. He calls Abraham to follow him and be the father of a special people; He calls Moses to rescue that people from slavery in Egypt and lead them to their own promised land. He is a God with a purpose in history, who is grieved by the failures of his people to live up to that purpose but never abandons them his purpose through acts of mercy and judgment, until its culmination in the coming of his son, his supreme act of mercy and judgement in the death and resurrections of Jesus.
But He is also the supreme reality sought by the reflective mind, particularly as that search was carried on in the Platonic tradition of Greek thought. He is the ultimate, changeless reality that lies behind and gives reality to transient phenomena of the world of the senses. His divinity lies in his self-existent completeness and perfection, his need of nothing from outside of himself, his freedom from passions of our human, historical existence." ......Continuation after next paragraph!
NB: For ideals & doctrines comparative studies from quotes in red colour ; refer on 1st interlude from Quran Chapter 112 "Al-Ikhlas" (Purity!) under http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/
Maurice Wiles continue from above as follows:-
"Formal christian doctrines of God have moulded together these two streams of belief as best they have been able. The two have been uneasy bedfellows. Few christians have desired to do wholly without earlier. But the inevitable tensions between them have given rise to divergent conformations of belief.
The tensions at the heart of christian belief in God can be put another way. 'I believe in God the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth...'So the apostles creed begins. And that for some is the starting point of their belief in God - God the ultimate source of the mysterious existence of one world and of ourselves.
But that, others object, is to start christian belief on wrong foot. They insist that christian belief in God is from start to finish, belief in the triume God, - God as Father, Son and holy Spirit. It is in the culminating of action and self revelation of God in the death of the son on the cross that the starting-point a\nd key to all properly christian belief in God is to be found. Again, it is not normally a matter of direct opposition. The former approach was not intending to deny the crucial significance of the cross for our understanding of God, and the latter has no wish to repudiate the conviction that God is creator. But the chosen point of departure can make a big difference to the form of the final picture.
No christian picture of God can be final. Both streams have stressed the in-adequacy of human lanquage for such a task. 'To whom will you compare me that, I should be like him!'; says the Hebrew prophet, speaking in the person of God (Isaiah 40:25). 'God can in no way be described, says Plato. So the continued existence of the tensions and the failures of our verbal formulations are not matters for surprise or for despair. despite the, christians beleve that the ultimacy of transcendence and generosity of self-giving to the point of death and god forsakeness are both proper evocations of the God whom they worship."
Continuation from Maurice wills:-
"The conviction that the person of crist, and above all his death on the cross are determinative of christian belief in God poses a second problem. Not only does it stand in tension with the idea of God's changeless perfection; it does not fit easily either with the fact that it was the man, Jesus of Nazareth, who died on the cross. Christians, as I said earlier (according to Maurice wills); echoing the start of the Epistle to the Hebrews, see the cuminating action and self-revelation of God in the death of his son on the cross. But the death was the death of a real man. That is an equally basic christian belief."
To continue extracts later from; The Oxford Illustrated History of Christianity - Edited by John McManners.
NB: For ideals & doctrines comparative studies from quotes in red colour ; refer on 2nd interlude from Quran Chapter 2 Al- Baqra verses 20 - 23 http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/
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Edited by - kobo on 29 Aug 2008 18:58:24 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 14:37:57
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Continuation from Maurice wills (as above):-
"This transformation is not something that takes place at a distance, as it were, either in space or time. If we were to speak in terms of belief in God simply as Father and Son, that could easily be misunderstood to imply that we know God only as transcendent source and is decisively active at a moment in past history."
"But Christians believe in God who is Father, Son, aqnd Holy Spirit. Belief in God as Holy Spirit gives expression to the conviction that GOd is continually and dynamically active within the world of his creation. This aspect of Christian belief in God has its specific intellectual formulation too. He is spoken of as a third 'person' of the Godhead, in the same ualifed sense of the wird 'person' that is intended with respect to the Father and the Son. And attempts have been made to define the eternal relation of this third person with the Father and the Son. The differing outcomes of those attempts (whether he is said to proceed from the Father or from both the Father and the Son) remain a point of division between Eastern and Western Christians to this day. But if it be true general, as I have argued, that Christians nelief, for all its struggle to find reasoned and coherent expression, is always more than its its formulation in intellectual terms, nowhere is that more true than in the case of the Holy Spirit. One might even say that belief in the Holy Spirit is belief in God as transcending the rational dimension, not in a way that removes him from the realm of human reason but in a way that shows him to be too fundamental to all human experience to be fully apprehended by it. That with which the individual has to do in the deepest moments of his experience - be they the the ecstasies of the mystic or experiences of a more ordianry kind - is God; that with which the church has to do in the distinctive moments of its corporate life is God. We may understand and misuse those experiences, but in them God is present, God in the same full sense in which the Father and the Son are God. For God is no absentee laandlord; he is present reality. The dangers of misundertanding and misuse of this conviction of God's immediate presence to the believer are real and serious, as a book like William Jame's."
Then Maurice Wills continue below:-
"Varieties of Religious Experience vividly ilustartes. But the system of Christian belief has a built-in corrective against such distortions. It is one and the same God whom we know as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So the intimations of all the varied sources of our faith in God need to be combined in mutual self-correction. Different emphases will charcterize the believing of the philosophically minded believer and charismatic Christian given to speaking in tongues. But neither has a right to claim a monopoly of Christian truth. There is for the Christian one God; and what may be known of God in the creative work of the Father, the redemptive activity of the Son, and the tranforming power of the Spirit must agree together as complementary aspects of a properly Christian faith in God."
"I have just spoken of creation, redemption, and transformation as linked respectively to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (as does the Anglican catechism, except that it uses the word 'santification' for its third term). But the work of God is not divided up in the kind of way. So the linking of particular aspects of God's activity with particular persons of the Trinity represents an aid to human understanding rather than any fundamental difference between the three persons of the Godhead. Up to this point in my reflections on the threefold pattern of Christian belief in Faather, Son, and Holy Spirit, I have been considering its implications for the nature and being of the God in whom Christians believe. But now the allied triad of creation, redemption, and santification can serve as a framework for reflection on Christian beief about how God is at work in our human world."
Readers can refer on The Oxford Illustrated History of CHRISTIANITY, Edited by John McManners for more information, opinions, ideas (from Maurice Wills) on GOD! Source for extracts covered from book as advertised here; http://www.pendleburys.com/si/95166.html
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Edited by - kobo on 30 Aug 2008 15:06:31 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 13:10:33
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Before we proceed (as there are more questions than answers on Jesus' calims to be God); I am seeking answers to these questions on history of Bible:-
i) As Jesus of Nazareth was Jew; why Bible not completed in hebrew (for original New Testament written in Greek)?
ii) TORAH is part of Bible but is the TORAH a Hebrew Bible and complete Old Testament
iii) Is TORAH a Jewish Bible (Tanakh)
I) Refer from Jehovah wtness website on History of bible under http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/history-of-the-bible.htm
Extracts from above - "250 BC!"
"At some time during this period, the books of the Hebrew Bible were arranged by topic, including The Law (Torah), the Prophets (Nebiim), and the Writings (Ketubim). The first letters of these Hebrew words - T, N and K -- form the name of the Hebrew Bible - the Tanakh. 1
Beginning as early as 250 BC, the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek by Jewish scholars in Alexandria, Egypt. This translation became known as the "Septuagint", meaning 70, and referring to the tradition that 70 (probably 72) men comprised the translation team. It was during this process that the order of the books was changed to the order we have in today's Bible: Historical (Genesis - Esther), poetic (Job - Song of Songs), and prophetic (Isaiah - Malachi). 2 "
II) Courtesy of wikipedia on TORAH under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah
Extracts from above - Torah in other religions
"Both Christianity and Islam include the five books of Moses among their sacred texts. However, in both religions they lack the central significance that they have in Judaism.
In early Christianity a Koine Greek version of the Hebrew Bible, called in Latin the Septuagint was used, and as the Pentateuch, forms the beginning of the Old Testament that incorporate the Torah into the Christian Biblical canon that also includes some books not found in the Tanakh.[42] Though different Christian denominations have slightly different versions of the Old Testament in their Bibles, the Torah as the "Five Books of Moses" (or "the Law") are common to them all.
Islam draws heavily upon the Torah for Islamic concepts, teachings, and history of the early World.[43] from which it also derives that it is descended from Abraham's first son Ishmael, the half-brother of Isaac.
The Muslims call the Torah, Tawrat which is still believed by Muslims to be the word of Allah given to Moses. However, Muslims also believe that this original revelation was corrupted (tahrif) over time by Jewish scribes[44] and hence do not revere the present Jewish version Torah as much. A number of verses from the Qur'an are claimed to refer to Muhammed as the promised prophet of Islam to be found in the Torah. [45] The originally revealed, but never seen Torah in the Qur'an is always mentioned with respect in Islam. The Muslims' belief in the Torah, as well as the Prophethood of Moses, is one of the fundamental tenets of Islam." |
Edited by - kobo on 01 Sep 2008 14:12:40 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2010 : 19:20:39
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hello KOBO, HOW IS THE DAY enjoying the posting, bit of a read but then you were not a person of few words,
when are you going back to gambia |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2010 : 22:18:15
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YES ITS A BIG READ. WHAT INTEREST ME IS WRITER WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS "MULTITUDE OF ERRORS" IN RESPONSE WLC & ELABORATED DELUDED ARGUMENTS, REFERENCES & JUSTIFICATIONS; QUOTING/INTERPRETING CHAPTERS/SECTIONS OF HOLY QUARAN (SURA). IN MY OPINION HE FAILED TO CONVINCE ME AND I SEE HIM TO BE IN THE SAME SITUATION AS ILLUSIONED WLC!
BASICALLY ANYONE WHO WANTS TO UNDERSTAND THE QURAN, SHOULD BE AIDED & GIVEN GUIDANCE HOW TO STUDY & UNDERSTAND IT? LEARNING QURAN CAN BE MADE EASY AND STRAIGHT FORWARD ON ISSUES!
BEFORE CONCLUDING I HAVE THESE COMMENTS TO MAKE;
1. TO TAKE NOTE THAT WE ARE ALL DEFENDERS OF OUR DIFFERENT FAITHS!
2. WE SHOULD NOT ACCEPT TO BE FALSELY INDOCTRINATED WITH MYSTIC THAT HAS NO IRRESISTIBLE LOGIC OR FACTS?
3. AS A MUSLIM (WE) BELIEF IN NO DOUBT TO CHALLENGE THAT JESUS (ESSA -MPUH) WAS A TRUE PROPHET WITH NEW TESTAMENT TO REFORM THE WORLD 100%.
4. HOWEVER IN MY OPINION I STILL NEED SOME ANSWERS TO THE FOLLOWING;
- WHETHER JESUS WAS A CHRISTIAN OR CAN BE CALLED/CONSIDERED A CHRISTIAN
- WAS HIS ORIGINAL NAME ACTUALLY JESUS (AS JEW) BECAUSE THAT MAY NOT BE HEBREW?
- IF JESUS IS GOD WHY WAS HE NOT GIVEN NAME OF GOD; DURING LIFE TIME
- WHO IS JOHN REFERRED IN BIBLE VERSES FOR E.G JOHN 1:1; ETC
- HOW CAN JESUS BE REJECTED BY THE JEWS AS PROMISED MESSIAH, CONDEMNED BY ROMANS & VATICAN ROMAN CATHOLICS CLAIMED SUPREME AUTHORITY OF CHRISTIANITY ?
- IF BIBLE IS COMPILED IN GREECE, IS THAT VERSION COMPILED THE SAME ORIGINAL BIBLE FOR ALL CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS?
- WHAT ARE ATTRIBUTES OF A TRUE CHRISTIANS?
- DO TRUE CHRISTIANS REALISED THE NEED TO STUDY HOLY QURAN & RESEARCH ON PROPHET MUHAMAD; NOT TO SWAYED FROM LAST TESTAMENT AS SAME CASE WITH JEWS ON PROPHET ESSA-MPUH (JESUS)?
- IF MUSLIMS CAN AUTHORITATIVELY DECLARE "THERE IS NO ONE EXCEPT GOD"; WHY DID CHRISTIANS DIS-AGREE IN TRINITY & PROOF THAT JESUS IS GOD?
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 23:18:52
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kobo, as a christian let me give you my side of things, jesus lived for us he is the son of god. that is my faith.
at that time god chose the jews for jesus to be part of, when he died christainty was born.
jews and muslims believe that there was a religious teacher at that time who had followers this is not disputed what is disputed was he the son of god.
mine is one of faith and belief, sometimes you could have concrete proof and still want more.
peace be with you.
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2010 : 18:22:30
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
kobo, as a christian let me give you my side of things, jesus lived for us he is the son of god. that is my faith.
at that time god chose the jews for jesus to be part of, when he died christainty was born.
jews and muslims believe that there was a religious teacher at that time who had followers this is not disputed what is disputed was he the son of god.
mine is one of faith and belief, sometimes you could have concrete proof and still want more.
peace be with you.
WE ALSO GOT THESE INDOCTRINATION OR MYTHS (BEYOND HUMAN APPREHENSION & KNOWLEDGE)THAT;
- Adam EXISTED (CREATED UNDER COMMAND OF GOD) but was with neither father nor a mother; as narrated?
- Eve (AWA) EXISTED (CREATED UNDER COMMAND OF GOD) with a father (Adam's rib = being father of Eve) but without mother; as narrated?
- Jesus (Essa s.a.w with mother Mary or Mariam) but without father; as narrated.?
Jambo amongst others for SHARE OF KNOWLEDGE & INTER-FAITH EXCHANGES; WIKIPEDIA COMPILATION ARE GOOD READ & REFERENCES ON MONOTHEISM, AS FOLLOWS;
1. Son of God under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God
2. Prophet Jesus in Islam under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam
3. Prophet Muhammad under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
4. Related Bantaba World religions topic The True Religion under http://islam101.com/dawah/true_religion.htm
5. Related Bantaba World religions topic The Greatness of Allah: Ibn al-Qayyim under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8303
6. THESE ATTRIBUTES OF POWERFUL FORCES OF GOD WITH NATURE INSPIRED 99 Names of "ALLAH" (GOD IN ISLAM) under http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/99names.htm
VERY INTERESTING PARABLE! ^ Jesus said, "The (Father's) kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety-nine.'"
TO CONCLUDE ON THIS TOPIC; ANY BELIEVER IN GOD ALSO BELIEF IN WONDERFUL MIRACLES HAPPENING ALWAYS; IN LIFE & DEATH (THROUGH POWER OR DECREE OF GOD)! KNOWLEDGE IS THE SOURCE OF SALVATION & MEANINGFUL LIFE!
MAY WE BE ENLIGHTEN THROUGH PEACE, HAPPINESS & GUIDED THROUGH RIGHT PATH! GOD BLESS YOU ALL! AMEEN!
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Edited by - kobo on 28 Dec 2010 21:14:28 |
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