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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 17:38:54
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Scholars examine the facts about Jesus' claims to be God
http://www.Y-Jesus.com/
Further references and more useful information courtesy of allAfrica.com under http://y-jesus.com/jesuscomplex_1.php?gclid=CLSx-_mB95QCFQuH1Qod3UJyrg
"LAA ILLAAHA ILL LAL LAAH!" = "No one is worthy of worship except ALLAH! "& as a muslim I bear witness that Essa ("s.a.w" = Peace be on him!) is amongst the true prophets that I love, belief on its true teachings & other prophets that made us subdue ouselves towards the path of "ALLAH", The Almighty; Creator & Master of The Universe!
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Edited by - kobo on 05 Aug 2008 17:52:09 |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 18:00:53
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| Had a look at that website but can't see that Jesus claimed to be God anywhere - did I overlook that paragraph, Kobo? Please place the individual link if possible ... thanks! |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 18:14:48
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quote:
Originally posted by MeMe
Had a look at that website but can't see that Jesus claimed to be God anywhere - did I overlook that paragraph, Kobo? Please place the individual link if possible ... thanks!
I did not say that Jesus claimed to GOD! Its forwarded to open debate, examine facts, learn from each other and clear mis-conceptions 
Reference on opening statement i.e "Scholars examine the facts about Jesus' claims to be God "; is exactly remarks extracted from topic ("Was Jesus a lunatic?") under allAfrica.com from right-hand side of this link http://allafrica.com/stories/200808040496.html
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Edited by - kobo on 06 Aug 2008 13:26:20 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 18:38:39
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| Kobo, you may want to rephrase your opening statement... |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 19:52:42
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If such an opening statement was posted about another religion ,that is frequently discussed on this Bantaba I wonder what the attitude of those who followed that religion would be ?
As Gambia is a Muslim country and that this bantaba is frequented by mostly Muslims some who hold very strong views,I feel that Kobo's posting is not to do with discussion at all but just to obtain reaction from those who are not of the Muslim faith.
Perhaps you would like to express your views mansasulu. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 05 Aug 2008 20:02:59 |
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Momodou
Denmark
11645 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 20:27:48
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Scholars examine the facts about Jesus' claims to be God
Kobo, I have never read any scripture where Jesus claims to be God. It is people who claim the he is God.
Toubab, Jesus is a prophet of the Muslims as Muhammad is (May Allah’s mercy be upon both of them). He is called Essa the son of Mariam in the Quran. Insulting Jusus is equally offensive to Muslims as an insult to Muhammed. In fact Jesus is mentioned more times in the Quran than Muhammed. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 21:11:08
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| I appriciate that,but the statement was specific to Jesus,(before it was modified) not Muhammad,thereby I felt that the posting was directed specifically at Christians.I am also pleased to see that Kobo(?) has removed some of his opening statement,which I could not believe was there. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 05 Aug 2008 21:59:30 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 22:14:58
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As a child raised in the Christian faith I was taught that Jesus was the son of God. (As such he is much more important to Christians than any other prophets).
He was sent to earth to die on the cross to save us from sin so we can have eternal life.
Or something like that!  
I think alot of Christian principles are good principles to live your life by. Many of the stories in the New Testament are a good guide to living a good life.
But as I have said before I don't believe Jesus is the son of God and I dont believe in the resurrection story. Therefore I am not a Christian.
So Kobo Christians believe Jesus is God on earth..... I think! |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 22:15:37
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Toubab, Momodou actualy got to the point I was thinking about- "claims" of Jesus's (AS)divinity. The way it is written suggests that Jesus indeed claimed to be God.
My views about Jesus is that he was born miraculously, raised people from the dead, cured the blind, crippled and leper all by the will of Allah. My religion teaches that NO one can claim to be a muslim if they do not believe in Jesus' message. To us he is one of the greatest messengers sent to mankind.
Furthermore, there is no unequivocal statement in either the old or new testament where Jesus said: "I am God or worship me." We muslims have a greater claim to Jesus than any other religion on earth today simple because we did not attribute anything to him beyond what he actually said or did.
The question Kobo initially asked "Is Jesus a Lunatic?" was a question the jews asked not the muslims. In other words, it severely undercuts the belief of a muslim if he seriously believes that Jesus was a lunatic. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 05 Aug 2008 22:18:55 |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 23:56:46
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Mansasulu,your last posting clarifies the position,I am not a scholar in religious matters as I suspect you are from the postings that you have made previously such scholarship is never ending and is a life's work.What concerned me was that KOBO should have posted such a statement as he did without a sensible lead up to opinions of other posters being made who would have been mostly Christians I suspect, if posters were very well versed in the Christian doctrines discussion of his words may have taken place later.For a good Muslim such as KOBO must be, to start a posting in the way he did in order to obtain a reaction in my opinion was an error.
I cannot take part in this discussion further because unlike you I have not studied either Christian doctrine or Muslim doctrine. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 05 Aug 2008 23:58:21 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 00:12:44
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I am sure the differences exist between the many religions. Both Jesus/Esa and his mother Mariam (Mary) are most honored in the Quran. A special surah called "mariam" talked about how she (Mariam) was among the most 'honored' women of her time.
Coming back to bro Kobo's posting, I doubt he posted that to provoke another person or religion. This, I will base on my observation of his postings here -for the short while. I am sure there must be some sensitive parts in discussing about religion, for the simple fact that every one thinks his' or hers' is right. The 'trinity' in Christianity -father, Son and Holy spirit remains a belief among some christians, not all of them. A research I did (Courtesy of Muhammad Didat-May God be pleased with him) helped me understand things better..."WHAT DID JESUS REALLY SAY?" This is really a must read for all people.
Jesus/Esa (Peace and love be upon Him) indeed a holy one at that.
Some Islamic facts about him (ESA, PBUH)
-That he was born miraculously -speaking at the cradle.
-That he was born to the virgin Mary (Mariam), without a father by God's own wish and will.
-That he was a prophet and messenger of God, just like the many others.
-That he performed miracles with the help of his Lord, including curing the sick.
-That he rose to the heavens and was never killed/crucified on the cross.
-That he will come to earth to die like any other person.
-That he was bestowed with the 'Injil'/Old testament of the bible)
-That he was send to the people of his nation
-That he was a righteous one of God
-That he recognized and glorified his Lord's greatness.
-That he prophesized the coming of Muhammad (Saw), simply found on John 15, 16, (The coming of the comforter)
-That he called people to the way of God
With Love,
Dalton
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 00:19:26
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| Thanks Dalton1,yours is the kind of posting that can generate a discussion,as I have said to Mansasulu I am not qualified at all to participate further. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 00:21:31
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Scholars examine the facts about Jesus' claims to be God
http://www.Y-Jesus.com/
Further references and more useful information courtesy of allAfrica.com under http://y-jesus.com/jesuscomplex_1.php?gclid=CLSx-_mB95QCFQuH1Qod3UJyrg
I did not say that Jesus claimed to GOD! Its forwarded to open debate, examine facts, learn from each other and clear mis-conceptions
Hello, Kobo - it's in the first line of your posting dated 5 Aug @ 17.38! I followed the link under this quote but couldn't find anything linked to Jesus claiming to be God, which is why I asked you to add the specific link which would show me that text. Thanks!
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It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 08:09:41
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I think by every indication Jesus in fact claimed to be God, even though he did not state outright that "I am God". There are numerous inferences in the Bible about the Godhood of Jesus, some from Jesus himself and others from other people, John particularly. Jesus' statement that he "...and the (his) father are one" is widely interpretted as a claim to Godhood, especially by the Jews who repeatedly stoned Jesus for such blasphemy; yet Jesus never retracted that statement nor did he correct it. That is one reason that support the notion that Jesus in deed claimed to be God. Another point is the bible's claim that "the word was God, and the word is the flesh". This again illustrates Jesus as God, and again Jesus never disputed or corrected this statement notion.
The concept of the 'Trinity'(a tripartite God) is central to Christian belief where a three dimensional God is a resultant fusion of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. There cannot be any separation of these three according to Christian doctrine. Jesus never disputed these claims during his life time. Therefore, even if he did not explicitly said he was God, he has implicitly said so, and condoned others to say the same of him.
But there is a caveat here. Jesus cannot be tried in the court of Islam. There is a lack of jurisdiction. There is a factual dispute between Muslims, Christians (and Jews) over the life and being of Jesus. There appears to be a constitutional disagreement also in that the Quran, Bible, and the Torah are at great odds over the issue of Jesus... |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 13:28:39
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quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
Kobo, you may want to rephrase your opening statement...
Thanks Mansasulu & sorry Meme for any distortion! Its now edited and clarification made after your observations! Review again and forward comments |
Edited by - kobo on 06 Aug 2008 13:56:50 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 13:49:10
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Sorry Toubab 1020 wrong observations and not my thoughts
These are very important religious doctrines or controversial issues that need to be discussed for better understanding, re-awakenning and knowledge in religion, politics, propaganda, community & society!
Catholics appear to belief in trinity and bed-rock of the christian faith is all about "Son of God!" and these extracts below from following link;
REFER BELOW EXTRACTS from: Scholars examine the facts about Jesus' claims to be God http://www.Y-Jesus.com/
"These questions get to the heart of who Jesus really was. Some believe he was merely a great moral teacher; others believe he was simply the leader of the world’s greatest religion. But many believe something far more. Christians believe that God has actually visited us in human form. And they believe the evidence backs that up. So who is the real Jesus? Let’s take a closer look."
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Edited by - kobo on 06 Aug 2008 13:52:54 |
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