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mansasulu
997 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 14:17:22
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| Didn't Lincoln suspend the constitution and imposed a State of Emergency? SOE is not undemocratic |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 18:54:52
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| The arrow is pointing better focused on ABUSE OF POWER more than the the democratic provision that permits such abuse. In the case of Pakistan (and what is perceived of Gambia) Musharaf is bent on a calculated selfish desire to suit his dubious plans. Gambians are exposed to the same pattern of abuse. Yes, the constitution provides for A B C. The big query is not to doubt that democracy generously provides for the powers that be. In the case of Gambia, Pa sallah Jeng was denied by Jammeh to carry out his mandated duties by engaging him in useless legal tussles. When he finally realized the end of road, he created another diversion, this time to empower himself the mandate for dissolving a whole municipality. That is the dirty trick the whole issue hinges on; if that makes sense to anyone reasoning. What we witness in Jammeh's dispensation of constitutional provisions is one drastic abuse of those very good provisions. He is shamefully drunk with what the constitution provides for A PRESIDENT not simply for a YAHYA JAMMEH. That is where Gambians have to stand firm, break Jammeh before he breaks everything and spoil for everyone. |
Karamba |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 19:08:21
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Mansa
The democractic safeguards in the US cannot be compared to with him. Lincoln was a great man but sometimes even a Saint gets angry.
I am not sure if Lincoln suspended the constitution but i know he suspended Haebu Corpus. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 23:16:52
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| Kondorong, what is Haebu Corpus? Did you meant to say Habeas Corpus ? |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 23:56:48
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Kondorong, what is Haebu Corpus? Did you meant to say Habeas Corpus ?
Sorry. It was a typo. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 06:19:21
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| I guess no one is perfect Konds. See I made an error also by writing "did you meant...". It should have been "did you mean..." |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 13:27:25
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Time:Tick tack, tick tack Bang...End  No should not be
Who believes he can follow the Sun most first started with Eagle in the air.
Now they wash him (Musharraf)cleanly so now he is not even their coarse cleaning. State of emergency-scary of coup detar-tar-tar boom boom boom no wonder he is not the dream foster-son anymore,
The Us pumps over 11ml$(not more) in his account which the same account they forwarded to the rest of the west, and no return(like where is B.ladens Al qaida, or talibans after 6yrs search.Hey Mr breezing No one can sleep with our hard currency so cushy 
Is it that simple you MOST GO!,(the next concubine please)
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=13513
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Edited by - mbay on 06 Nov 2007 14:07:05 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 17:04:01
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Related World Politics topic benazir bhutto- selfish or stupid or both? under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4661
Sorry time is against me but have things to share on Pakistan's democracy, militants and few reviews from current media reports.
Assure you that will continue from here later!
Thanks for the vibrant debates! |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 19:47:55
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
Mansa
The democractic safeguards in the US cannot be compared to with him. Lincoln was a great man but sometimes even a Saint gets angry.
I am not sure if Lincoln suspended the constitution but i know he suspended Haebu Corpus.
Koto Konds, I am trying to point out the hypocrisy inherent in the those who think that democracy is a solution to the world's problems. Pakistan as a nation just turned 50 years and all of a sudden everyone expects them to act like a 200 year old democracy.
When Lincoln suspended Habeaus Corpus in 1861, the United States as a nation was about 85 years old and today people think he was a genius for doing what he did back them.
Democracy will never succeed anywhere else outside the west and I think it is high time we realize that. Mussarraf is hell-bent arming Pakistan to the teeth for a possible war with India and anything that stand in the way of that is not important to him, be it the democratic process or what have you. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 20:30:08
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It is rather sweeping to blame DEMOCRACY !! for the blunt misconduct of political demagogues wherever in the world and within whatever historical epoch. When tyrants fail to behave in the most civil accord, they are to blame and not the PRINCIPLE they deviate from. It is exactly the same for MUSLIMS drinking, eating pork, killing, etc and Islam being blamed. One thousand presidents may fail the TEST OF DEMOCRACY and that does not mean democracy is impossible to work. It helps to rationalize sound principles from weak people who deviate from them. |
Karamba |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 21:27:48
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| My question is...why is everyone crying foul. There is nothing unconstitutional about what Mussarraf did. If anything, the constitution calls for a SOE to be imposed if there is a threat to public order. This is just a case of the weakness of a political system being exposed. Democracy as a system of government has severe deficiencies and defects. If it fails anywhere in the world, you blame the people, but you never take time to examine whether (the system) it is compatible with the moral ethos of the people. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 06 Nov 2007 22:18:09 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 21:59:10
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Mansasulu and Karamba
Mansasulu has a good point with the wrong reason about democracy success/failure in non-western countries.
Democracy was successful in west, because, democracy is established in west from bottom-to-top. There was revolution coming from people. And that is hundreds of years process. And most important, there was a capitalism and industrial revolution, enlightenment helped to establish democracy. Society needs labour class, Bourgeoisie class, intellectuals to demand better adminstration. West has this process naturally. Non-western countries are lacking this experience to implement successful democracy.
And for example Turkey had to wait this more than 100 years just to be close to be democracy. Why late? It is because they did not have this natural process. Until recently. Ottoman empire was based on war economy. Most prestigious jobs were either military or government work. Or you would be landlord. Mostly time trade/commerce was a third class sector and done by christian/jewish minorities like jews, greeks, armenians and christians. 100 years ago young turks who are government worker or army officers attempted to established democracy, it was a start and failure. It took more than 100 years to come today, still not a democracy close to western standards. Why, because until recently, democracy was implemented by aristocracy/army. Top to down. It was not natural. Turks never demanded democracy. Until recently. Last election 50 % vote from conservatives, very conservative president elected despite the opposition by army and aristocracy was a natural democratic revolution. Why, because recent economic success created anatolian tigers (like asian tigers) formerly conservative, urban folks got economic and recently political power. Urbanization of these class demanded to govern. This class was quantitively majority. They demanded democracy. It is only more natural process if the demand and implementation of democracy is from bottom-to-top approch.
Karamba
you are right about that we can't blame democracy for the failure. But I think we blame how the democracy is being implemented. I have been reading your posts and could not help to point that your demand for democracy for gambia while I am sure you have good intension, would fail in short run. Because it is really implementation of western democracy to gambian that has totally different realities will not work. When I talk to gambians, majority of gambians do not worry about democratic process in gambia. They have different worries. People must demand democracy in order to implement democracy. You don't have the people. You can't have democracy without people. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 22:04:55
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Mansa: "..compatible with moral ethos of the people...."
Good point there. One of the better known critics of capitalism, Karl Marx was fair enough to state that you " take from capitalism what belongs to mankind." It is one of big folly attributing perfection to human systems. In lot of human processes of interplay, some things work well, others work less. Basic principles could still be solid as rock. Above all, it is a matter of choice.
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 22:17:16
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Turk,
If democracy is better served in the best accord of FAIR PLAY, call it any other name and no offense. What I despise most about Gambian dispensation of political position is the VERY UNFAIR conduct of those who deceive people in the name of a game they are not committed to play. Perhaps, the nearest name to SHARING would be democracy. It is when leaders (anywhere in the world) drift from desired standards of FAIRNESS that CONFLICT begins. It is wrong to MISLEAD, under whatever system that prevails. I am not a die-hard democrat to fanatical extremes. What all citizens agree on, let no person abuse that; politician or common man
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