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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 17:15:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Jangjang
[How can jammeh claim to cure Aids when he is killing Gambians at the same time, Is that not an irony!
Don't miss the long list of discharged patients by Jammeh.
He is beyond Aids cure now.
Recently was another intake for 'infertility'; pressing ladies' breast and ehhhhh.....
Amiiiiiiiiin, he is getting all the attention. so what now?? |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 17:20:28
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Sunday's Lurk,
you touched on a lot of factual points in that piece. The point below stands out loud and clear.
"it is mirrored all over the world in other countries and they fight long and difficult battles of many kinds to achieve a level playing field. he is a dictator. he is a megalomaniac. he is probably beginning to believe his own hype." Lurk
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 17:28:22
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dalton, good day. i seem to speak to gambians and toubabs alike in gambia, not here, who think that it is better to let sleeping dogs lie, than to look at the short to medium term future and see the clouds looming on the horizon. living for today never allows for the development of human beings in any context. the fact that there has not been a successful coup for a few years, that people are superficially well fed and "content" is smokes and mirrors.
all gambians i know say they have never been so hard up, that prices have never been higher , that they don't care about lemon creek new hotel, that they do not care about the dalasi versus the pound. they want food, power, schooling, health facilities, and basic human rights of speech, electoral power and general democratic freedom. how many of those are actually on the table under the current regime?
you know i love the country , its peopl and its culture, but i am genuinely worried , having watched the last few months develope, of the sinister and subtle slippage of the country down the slippery slope of dictatorship and associated restriction of civil liberties and freedoms.
i am not trying to foment uprising. i am trying to understand what it takes before the average person on the street wakes up and sees where this is all going. as i said, history is full of mirror images of this nascent struggle and we know what happened in most circumstances before regimes were eventually dismantled. ...............
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 17:39:23
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Lurk,
You drew the conclusion to the ongoing nightmare by your thoughtful points. Amiiiin, it is no one's wish for an uprising for fear of blood-bath. but it remains to be seen that time is coming near to where it will be called self-defense for each and everyone to protect themselves, friends and their families by all possible means.
Thanks you for your in-depth analysis.
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 17:42:51
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dalton, may the good and true among gambians find a bright and optimistic future awaiting them and their progeny......alas, it may take a while to materialise under current ominous conditions.
"a hungry man is an angry man" |
Edited by - lurker on 04 Nov 2007 17:43:18 |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 17:57:58
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i have just read Sister Omega's comments again and am now even more irate. there is totally unsubstantiated nonsense in her rhetoric.
1) he is not qualified by any standards to treat these diseases. he is a disgrace in that he can raise the hopes of the poor of a cure for things that all modern medicine has failed to even begin to solve.
3)how has he provided education for the masses? secondary school is still not free. i still pay for my "god-daughter's " fees. Loads of gambians do not go to school as they have no money to pay the fees. how many new schools are built? where is you evidence for such a claim?
4)where is your evidence for increased employment? Do you have the govt's lates employment figures to hand?
5)of course the property market is booming.! it is called supply and demand. It has nothing to do with his policies or economic skills. it has everything to do with retired toubabs who wnat to live in the sun and make their pensions last.yahya will tax them and laugh all the way to the bank. this is hardly sound fiscal economic policy devised by the brains of the Gambians economic elite.
6) where are the new houses? a Taf conurbation in bijilo? Which gambians can afford that? ministers, cronies or my mother -in -law and her friends who sell kani in the market?
You are campaigning from a baseless, unproven platform. There is no evidence that you quote to support your blind-faith pro-regime rhetoric. You would be torn apart by cleverer people than me.
I suggest you gather some indisputable , hard facts to bandy about and then , maybe, people here might give your up-to -now nonsense some serious thought.
Do not take personal insult here, Sis. I would say the same to any supporter of his.
You simply MUST support your pro-jammeh propaganda with hard facts. so far, it just is not happening. if you can support these points you raised, you will probably be elevated to the highest ministerial position in the motherland. |
Edited by - lurker on 04 Nov 2007 18:02:16 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 18:08:21
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Lurks,
You have a 3rd eye vision.
The above mentioned points of yours combined with the numerous human rights violations.
thanks you. have a good day. i am signing off now.
dalton
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 18:14:50
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| goodbye for now. |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 19:14:14
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Lurker the beautiful thing about bantabaa there are divergent view points likewise there are divergent viewpoints on the ground as well. You seem to be upset about are you freeling the pinch of the devalued pound or dollar? So you have to pay your Goddaughters school fees so what about the Taxi Driver who has 7 children and is paying for all of them to go to school. He lamented even though things are tight right now this government is trying and he sees more benefits than when he ws in his youth.
So you see you can spout as much BS here but none of you have power on the ground to implement any of your brain waves for it is difficult to implement blame and hate as a national policy.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 04 Nov 2007 19:20:14 |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 19:21:11
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| i have never heard such an ineffectual response to a comment on your position. you have totally ignored my questions to you and blamed my "position" on your supposed interpretation of my paying school fees for someone. you really need to go back and read the whole thing again and answer the questions. you are beginning to embarrass your own undoubted intellect.by the way, it seems that many people here do not think that this opinion is "BS" so maybe you ought to consider the position your feeble argument finds itself in. answer the points as they were raised or risk being discarded into the scrap heap of oblivion on this matter.no slanging matches here, not from me, just refer to the points and deal with them. i suspect you cannot. |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 19:41:53
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Lurker the point is we can all hide behind keyboards and pseudonyms and spout rhetoric. There is no incumbent leader who is 100% popular with their Leader. It is the opposition who helped to create today's state of affairs by not participating within 2001 and being completely disorganized last year. Civil education is being taught to the population through City Limit radio making people aware of the importance of voting in the local elections.
Lurker despite Jammeh coming from where he did without being groomed for the position of President there is no doubt in mind that Jammeh has achieved far more than the opposition ever thought he could in 13 years.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 19:49:57
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thanks for that . i give up. you have diverted the discussion to a theme of the opposition's "lack of" effectiveness as opposed to the proactive reasoning i was hoping to elicit from you regarding your pro-jammeh propaganda. there seems no point to continue as you persist in evading the requested responses.good luck in your dreamland.
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Edited by - lurker on 04 Nov 2007 19:50:30 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 20:08:03
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Adding to that Lurker,
One fact about dreams is that we can only narrate them but can never share the experience. It is impossible to invite even best friends during an occasion of dream. A dream world is so narrow to provide for welcome. When a dreaming person is in the height of sensation, it is possible to see a smile on the face while fire burns around the very house they sleep and dream in. Who to blame? |
Karamba |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 20:34:35
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Kay
i thought you were pro-musharaf who is pro uncle-sam. The problem is yankees supporting musharaf, do not want democracy in pakistan. And they are ok with the state of emergency. As long as democracy, the majority do not come to power in paki. Yankees, contrary to their claims are anti-democratic and they do not want democracy in the region. Previously they supported only dictators in the country. Imagine, democracy in egypt, jordon, iraq, saudi arabia. They would became anti-imperialist in 24 hours.
Sorry Turk you got it wrong again! The U.S. authorities have issue a statement expressing their dislike of what is happening in Pakistan. They have urged Musharaf to stick with the up coming elections in January 2008.
Concerning U.S. interest in the war on terror, Ms. Bhutto might even be a better ally than Musharaf, that is why the terrorists are after her head because of her perceived pro-western standing.
All these countries you have mentioned are being pressured by the U.S. to make democratic reforms. You need to get current Turk! |
Edited by - kayjatta on 04 Nov 2007 20:36:19 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2007 : 20:54:31
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But they are not being invaded like iraq to bring democracy!!!Pressured? They are receiving billions of dollars aid. They are puppets. It does not matter they are democratic or not. Your masters only have on criteria in the foreign politics. If they are puppets, they are good.
You are not getting this. Your masters does not want democracy in the region. If there was a democracy in these countries non-of-the-puppets-regimes would exist today.
What you hear on the news does not reflect the reality. Or what yankees do. You are living in polly molly world. All these countries not pressured to make democratic reforms. Is that the reason for example mubarak and jordon receive billions of dollars aid? Or sauid have any trade sanctions? Only neo-cons and house servants believe your tales. You are either very naive, or in denial, or playing dumb.
quote:
[edit] Military cooperation
Between 1979 and 2003, the US has provided Egypt with about $30 billion in military aid making Egypt the second largest recipient of US military aid after Israel. Also, Egypt received about $30 billion in economic aid within the same time frame.
Military cooperation between the US and Egypt is probably the strongest aspect of their strategic partnership. General Anthony Zinni the former Commandant of the US Central Command (CENTCOM) once said, "Egypt is the most important country in my area of responsibility because of the access it gives me to the region." Egypt was also described during the Clinton Administration as the most prominent player in the Arab world and a key US ally in the Middle East. US military assistance to Egypt was considered part of the administration's strategy to maintaining continued availability of Persian Gulf energy resources and to secure the Suez Canal, which serves both as an important international oil route and as critical route for US warships transiting to the Gulf.
The Egyptian military provides indirect support for the foreign policy of Egypt in the region. Egypt is the strongest military power on the African continent, and the second largest in the Middle East, after Israel - (Source: Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies' annual Middle East Strategic Balance). The real test of American-Egyptian friendship is whether the US administration is capable of adopting an even-handed policy towards the two key states in the Middle East.
also......
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The United States recognized the government of King Ibn Saud in 1931, and two years later, in 1933, Ibn Saud granted a concession to the U.S. company, Standard Oil of California, allowing them to explore for oil in the country's Eastern Province, al-Hasa. The company gave the Saudi government £35,000 and paid it other assorted rental fees and royalty payments. In exchange, a newly formed subsidiary of Standard Oil, California-Arabian Standard Oil Company (CASOC), was given exclusive rights to develop oil fields in the region. In 1938, CASOC struck oil near Dhahran, but production over the next several years remained low—only about 42.5 million barrels between 1941 and 1945; less than 1% of the output in the United States over the same time period.[2]
U.S. officials initially paid little attention, not sending a resident ambassador to the country until 1943. However, as World War II progressed, the United States began to believe that Saudi oil was of strategic importance. As a result, in the interest of national security, the U.S. began to push for greater control over the CASOC concession. On February 16, 1943, President Franklin Roosevelt declared that "the defense of Saudi Arabia is vital to the defense of the United States", thereby making possible the extension of the Lend-Lease program to the kingdom. Later that year, the president approved the creation of the state-owned Petroleum Reserves Corporation, with the intent that it purchase all the stock of CASOC and thus gain control of Saudi oil reserves in the region. However, the plan was met by opposition, and ultimately failed. Roosevelt continued to court the government, however—on February 14, 1945, he met with King Ibn Saud aboard the USS Quincy for over five hours, discussing topics such as the countries' security relationship and the creation of a Jewish country in the Mandate of Palestine.[3]
CASOC was later renamed the Arabian-American Oil Company (Aramco). The agreement between the company and the Saudi kingdom was modified several times over the years. In 1950, Saudi Arabia and Aramco agreed to a 50-50 profit-sharing arrangement, and a series of agreements between 1973 and 1980 resulted in the Saudis' regaining full control of the company. In 1988, King Fahd issued a royal decree establishing the Saudi Arabian Oil Company, known as Saudi Aramco, to replace Aramco.
In 1951, under a mutual defense agreement, the U.S. established a permanent U.S. Military Training Mission in the kingdom and agreed to provide training support in the use of weapons and other security-related services to the Saudi armed forces. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers assisted in the construction of military installations in the kingdom. This agreement formed the basis of what grew into a longstanding security relationship. Two years later, King Abdel died and was succeeded by his son, Crown Prince Saud, who was known for his reputation as a spendthrift. Under King Saud, the kingdom's treasury diminished rapidly and he was forced to turn over direct control of government affairs to his half-brother Faisal from 1958 to 1961. In 1964, the royal family and religious leadership forced Saud to abdicate in favor of Faisal.
In 1960, at a conference in Baghdad, Saudi Arabia joined Iran, Iraq, Kuwait and Venezuela in founding the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC). The organization -- which was later joined by Qatar, Indonesia, Libya, United Arab Emirates, Algeria and Nigeria -- was established to coordinate and unify the production and pricing of petroleum among the member nations.
Petroleum prices rose during the 1970s and early 1980s, and the Saudi economy became one of the fastest-growing world economies. By 1981, oil revenues in the kingdom had reached $116 billion per year. Many foreign private firms invested in joint ventures to build refineries and other technologies important to the petrochemical industry. The petrodollars were also used to fund the construction of new mosques and religious schools, known as madrassas, throughout the kingdom and abroad. There was an explosion in religious charities that were funded by a newly wealthy citizenry. U.S. officials believe that the network of madrassas across the world -- funded by the Saudi charities and fueled by the strict Wahhabi interpretation of Islam -- evolved into a network of recruiting schools that were to train Islamic militants to fight the jihad war in Afghanistan against the Soviet invasion (1979-1989).
On March 25, 1975, King Faisal was shot and killed by a disgruntled nephew. The assassin was executed, and King Faisal was succeeded by Crown Prince Khalid, whose reign was marked by continued modernization efforts and a more influential role for Saudi Arabia in regional politics.
1979: In the wake of Ayatollah Khomeini's revolution in Iran and the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan, the U.S. and Saudi Arabia continued to strengthen their security relationship. The continuing explosion of petrodollars into the Saudi treasury allowed the government to increase military expenditures. Since 1979, the kingdom has spent more than $50 billion on U.S. military purchases, including 5 airborne warning and control systems (AWACS) and a $5.6 billion "peace shield" -- a state of the art command and control system for the Royal Saudi Air Force with six underground command centers linking 147 defense-related sites. In the U.S., arms sales to Saudi Arabia often faced strong congressional opposition because of fears that the arming of Saudi Arabia would threaten Israel. In 1985, Congress rejected President Reagan's proposed sale of an arms package to Saudi Arabia that included 42 F-15s, antiaircraft missiles, Harpoon antiship missiles, and Blackhawk helicopters, and Reagan was forced to withdraw the proposal. In 1986 and 1988, Congress approved scaled-down arms packages that included Bradley fighting vehicles, TOW II antitank missiles, electronic upgrades for the F-15s, and 12 replacement F-15s that would remain in the U.S. until they were needed by the Saudis. The Stinger antiaircraft and Maverick antitank missiles were deleted from the president's earlier request.
Formation of Gulf Cooperation Council: In 1981, Saudi Arabia joined five other Persian Gulf nations -- Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates -- in forming the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), an economic and political policy-coordinating forum. At the time, the six countries contained more than half the world's oil resources.
In 1982, after a short illness, King Khalid died and was succeeded by Crown Prince Fahd. King Fahd faced decreased oil revenues due to declining global oil prices in the late 1980s and 1990s. However, King Fahd maintained healthy relations with the United States.
Saudi Arabia and the United States were close allies during the crisis and war that followed the surprise Iraqi invasion of Kuwait on August 2, 1990. As Iraqi combat forces moved toward the Saudi border, King Fahd authorized the deployment of U.S. forces to aid in his border defense. The kingdom hosted over 600,000 allied forces, and its treasury reached record deficit levels in 1990 and 1991. The U.S. spent $60 billion on the Gulf War, with the Saudis and Kuwaitis footing half the bill. As a result, the Saudi government was forced to borrow from commercial banks and export credit agencies for the first time.
Approximately 5,000 U.S. troops have remained in the kingdom since the Gulf War. Their presence has served as a major grievance for fundamentalist critics of the regime, including Saudi-born Osama bin Laden. In 1992, a group of 107 Wahhabi religious figures sent a 46-age "Memorandum of Advice" to King Fahd, which criticized the government for corruption and human-rights abuses and for allowing U.S. troops on Saudi soil. King Fahd dismissed seven of the seventeen members of the country's highest clerical body, the Supreme Authority of Senior Scholars, for refusing to denounce the memorandum.
In 1994, prompted by King Faud's arrest of two dissident Wahhabi clerics for anti-government preaching, several thousand protestors staged demonstrations. The clerics had accused the monarchy of corruption and of betraying Islam by allowing U.S. troops on the Saudi peninsula. While the government admitted it arrested over 100 protestors, opposition groups claimed thousands were arrested after the demonstrations.
The incident forced the government to cede more control to the Wahhabi clerics, but only with the promise of their support. The clerics were quietly released from prison in 1999.
In November 1995, terrorists attacked U.S. troops on Saudi soil. Five Americans were killed when a bomb exploded at a U.S.-operated Saudi National Guard training center in Riyadh. The Saudi government arrested four Saudi men in connection with the bombing and coerced them into a public confession. In the confession, they claimed to have been inspired by communiqués from Osama bin Ladin. Although bin Laden denied involvement, he praised the attack. Before the FBI had a chance to interview the suspects, they were beheaded.
In June 1996, a large truck bomb devastated the U.S. military residence in Dhahran, called Khobar Towers, killing 19 servicemen. Again, U.S. law-enforcement efforts to investigate the bombing were met with resistance by Saudi officials. In June 2001, a federal grand jury indicted 13 Saudis and one Lebanese man for the attack. As of mid-November 2001, Saudi Arabia has ruled out the idea of any extraditions.
King Faud suffered a stroke during the time of these attacks, and by 1997, Crown Prince Abdullah had become the de facto leader of the country. In contrast to King Fahd, who was seen as a staunch U.S. ally, Crown Prince Abdullah is known for his support of Arab and Islamic causes, particularly his strong support of the Palestinian infitada. He has criticized the U.S. for not opposing Israeli violence in Palestine, declining a May 2001 invitation to visit the White House.
In September 1996, the Taliban gained control of the Afghan city of Kabul. The following year, Saudi Arabia became one of only three countries to establish diplomatic relations with the Taliban. Although diplomatic ties were not broken until after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, relations were scaled back in 1998 after the kingdom accused the Taliban of harboring Osama bin Laden.
On Sept. 25, 2001, Saudi Arabia broke relations with the Taliban and issued a statement that said: "It is to be regretted that the government of the Taliban made use of Afghanistan's special status, not to build up brotherly relations or set up high Islamic values, but to make its land a center to attract and train a number of misguided people of all nationalities, and in particular, from among the citizens of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in order to carry out criminal acts that are against every tenet of Shariah [Islamic Law] and faith: moreover, Taliban has continued to refuse to hand those criminals over to justice."
Frustrated by the lack of U.S. response to Israeli-Palestinian violence, Crown Prince Abdullah sent President George W. Bush an angry letter on August 29, according to an October 2001 report in The Wall Street Journal. He warned that Saudi Arabia was being put in an untenable position and reportedly wrote: "A time comes when peoples and nations part. We are at a crossroads. It is time for the United States and Saudi Arabia to look at their separate interests. Those governments that don't feel the pulse of their people and respond to it will suffer the fate of the Shah of Iran."
[edit] Post 9/11 relationship with the United States
Nineteen men affiliated with al-Qaeda[2][3], including 15 Saudi nationals, hijacked four commercial passenger jet airliners, crashing two of the planes into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, one plane into each tower, which caused both towers to collapse within two hours. Hijackers of the third aircraft crashed that plane into the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia. Passengers and members of the flight crew on the fourth hijacked aircraft attempted to retake control of their plane from the hijackers; that plane crashed into a field in rural Somerset County, Pennsylvania. Approximately 3,000 people died in these attacks.
Saudi Arabia issued a statement on the day of the terrorist attacks on America's World Trade Center and Pentagon, calling them "regrettable and inhuman." Saudi recognition to the Taliban stopped and as of mid-November 2001, the Bush administration continued to publicly praise Saudi support for the war on terrorism. However, published media reports have indicated U.S. frustration with Saudi inaction. Although 15 of the 19 Sept. 11 hijackers were Saudi nationals, publicly the Saudis were not cooperating with Americans wanting to look at background files of the hijackers or interview the hijackers' families.
Saudi Arabia engaged the prominent Washington D.C. lobbying firm of Patton Boggs, headed by Thomas Boggs (brother of Cokie Roberts of ABC News and National Public Radio), as registered foreign agents in the wake of the public relations disaster when knowledge of the identities of suspected hijackers became known. They also hired the PR firm Qorvis for $14 million dollars a year. Qorvis engaged in a PR frenzy that publicized the "9/11 Commission finding that there was 'no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded [Al Qaeda]'—while omitting the report's conclusion that 'Saudi Arabia has been a problematic ally in combating Islamic extremism.'"[4]
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 04 Nov 2007 21:30:06 |
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