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kassma
334 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 05:34:26
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quote:
Originally posted by anna
It is hard to react objectively to your accusations since i am one of these white people involved in an interracial relationship. But you are right, i shouldn't take it so hard since what you talk about doesn't apply to me (or to any of my white friends or black friends, male or female, involved in interracial relationships).
In my opening paragraph i admitted that there is racism against black people which i found out from the second i introduced my Gambian lover to 'my world'. Even from people you least expect it from. Sometimes people are trying so hard to hide that they are racist at heart that it becomes embarrassing.
After 4 years we have gotten used to it and we are no longer bothered by it.
Sometimes your reactions are so harsh that it seems as if this aspect of human life in our lifetimes is first and foremost in your mind, i hope it doesn't make you lose your joy about life and love. So, that made me wonder about the baby...
But i am no psychotherapist either, and you don't seem to be the kind to appreciate small talk.
Goodnight, anyway
first of all, i'm a blunt person, i think before i say things ( or right in this case) but i say what i mean and i don't tire myself out trying to soften things. this is not a subject to take lightly. its not on my mind all the time, but its on my mind most of the time. as an african in america, i don't have the luxury, like you, of not being discriminated against, not wondering whether i should go to this and that place, or being given dirty looks just for being black (its a really long list but i've decided to shorten it). those are things no one should deal with, its not normal, but being black in america i guess excuses that kind of treatment.
no it doesn't rob me of any happiness because unlike black americans, i've lived in a society that doesn't consider me a second class, so whites attitude towards blacks is something i can never get used to because its something i wasn't raised in. even though i don't always see eye to eye with blacks in america, i hurt for them when i think how america and whites mistreat them. being discriminated against is something they've had to live with since birth! when they were young like 3,4,5,6 they've dealt with racist bs and that's why, in america, i can't help but think about racism. you on the other hand, can't imagine how it feels, and i'm serious, you can't imagine as a black person in white society, how being discriminated against is like. so i think being "harsh" is the best i can do in this situation cause as a gambian, i'm not used to treatment like this, i'm not used to seeing others being mistreated like this (cause you know in the Gambia, we just don't discriminate like that) and i'm never going to get used to stuff like that so that i'm not going to be bothered by it. i don't put up with it because of the society i've come from but african americans never had that "luxury". therefore, for a white person to sit here and tell me not to be hostile or to let bygones be bygones, no, that's not possible.
i fully intend to go back to Gambia when i'm done with school because being discriminated against, being a second class citizen is something i refuse to get used to.
if having a Gambian lover made you realize how blatantly racist some people are, what about the black person who has to deal with racism everyday, day in and day out, if it hurt you to see how racist some of you friends are, what about the black person who deals with it everyday and is the target. i'm tired of the stereotype of the black angry woman or man. as far as i'm concerned, we've got more to be angry about than anyone else. plus i think it is so insensitive not to be even able to understand how dehumanizing racism is and yall wonder why some blacks feel like victims. whatever |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 09:12:05
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I´m not at all surprised to hear that there are racists in interracial relationships. But I think the majority of them are white men.
I have often heard of men who "import" wives from Asia and Africa, only to abuse them and treat them very cruel. Many years ago a Gambian girl got married to a Swede who basically used her as a sexslave and maid, then after a year he divorced her because he was sick of her, wanted a new wife and he had to get divorced before she got her permanent stamp to stay in Sweden. He wanted her out of the country. But luckily she got help from the authorities and could get her papers to stay here regardless. I´ve heard from my ex. husband that she now lives in the U.K and is remarried to a Gambian man.
I will never forget the day when i went to a party in my ex.husbands friends place and when his friend and the white girlfriend suddenly started fighting she called him the N-word serveral times!  
That is why I am not surprised if there are many more out there who pretend not to be racist and infact are the worst devils of them all!
These things really P me O. It is really awful.
Also, I agree with Kassma that we white people can never imagine what it´s like to face discrimination everyday. Unfortunately we are priviliged in that way and can therefore never know how it really feels like to be looked upon as a crook everywhere we go.
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 11:49:55
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Anna it is a fact that we have superior thoughts eventhough we don't mean to.I thought of myself as very liberal and open-minded, but even I catch myself still sometimes , automatically thinking or assuming something.
Don't feel offended, I don't because I know Kassma's harsh words are the truth.It is a blessing that finally someone comes out with the truth.How can we understand our partners/Gambian friends if we only want to know the nice things?I need to know how black people see us, that's nothing bad.It is true that many many Toubabs don't have a proper insight into the partners lifestyle.Especially in Europe.
Our children grow up here at the moment but we try and live as much as we can the Gambian lifestyle because I feel it is far more rewarding and important for the children to learn.It is very sad to see that many whites cuss me because of this, saying I follow my husband too much.....I don't want to get into this.But again, don't be offended by Kassma, if you want to learn you should take these words to heart and think about them(doesn't mean that she meant you), but we could all learn if we only listen and think.One thing stings in my eyes though:
Why do you call your husband/partner Gambian lover?
When he talks about you, does he call you his Dutch/European Lover?
Babylon
Your change of hearts is surprising to me, but nice all the same.
Oh dear, that means you agree with what I said earlier in other topics?
Maybe we can shake hands now and discuss serious matters like this "seriously" |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 16:21:50
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OK! Let me give in just a little, because i read some interesting things in the latest postings
Kassma, you are perfectly right when you tell me that i cannot imagine what it is to live in the US as a black woman. I am white, and also i have never been in US (nor feel the urge to go there, really) and i live in a fairly liberated and progressive country. In Holland discrimating people because of their sex, their age, their colour or their sexual preference is formally prohibited. It is true that some white people, even some of those close to me, feel this superiority you talk about deep at heart and as i said it made me feel embarrassed sometimes to watch them bend over backwards not to show it openly in order not to hurt me or my partner.
Still, i see in some black people an oversensitivity in this respect and i think this is something to watch out for. At the college where i teach we have lots of black students from all over the place and it happens that when i tell one of them that he/she hasn't been doing a good job on some subject or that the mentor in the company where they do traineeships has too many critical remarks, i get the words 'racism' or 'discrimination' flung back to me which is in 95% of the cases a too easy excuse. It is only after these students have known me for a longer period that they realise i have everyone's best interest at heart and that the critisism is directed at everyone, regardless of colour, who deserves it and moreover it is meant to learn something from. Fortunately it happens now and then that some of these students involved tell me 'i am sorry, i reproached you unjustly, it is just that i thought 'here we go again....'.
When my Gambian lover first came here, i remember that we were once waiting for the elevator in our appartment building. Some other people were waiting there as well. A man came in from the street, probably wanting to visit someone living there. He cast a glance at the group of waiting people and ran up the stairs instead. My Gambian ... reacted as follows: 'he doesn't want to be in the same elevator with a black person'. I laughed at him, telling him to stop this nonsense, the man probably just wanted to have the exercise, or didn't feel like being in a crowded elevator. If you are feel that discrimination is everywhere, you can easily make this a selffulfilling prophesy. Kassma, i really hope you are successful in your studies and that there will be an opportunity for you to have a career in your homecountry. And thank you for your extensive reply.
Twinkly, does it matter? I sincerely hope that your husband (i think you are a married woman) is your lover as well. In my postings i use the words 'partner' and 'lover' just as it comes to my mind. Anyway, this Gambian man is my loving partner. I have been married before and i didn't keep my marriage vows, so i decided never again to go through these unnecessary ceremonies again. My Gambian man has known this from the start and understands.
Another stereotype: white women who go to the Gambia and end up with a Gambian partner, were there in the first place because they cannot find a partner in their own country. Give me a break.....Could someone for once please say, that this only goes for a small percentage of the women involved? Well, i visited the Gambia with my then partner to visit my sister who lived there and i met a black man who turned my world upside down and we all had a few rotten years until i finally realised i had to make myself a new life with the Gambian because i couldn't get him out of my head!
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When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 16:44:21
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quote:
Originally posted by anna
Another stereotype: white women who go to the Gambia and end up with a Gambian partner, were there in the first place because they cannot find a partner in their own country. Give me a break.....Could someone for once please say, that this only goes for a small percentage of the women involved? Well, i visited the Gambia with my then partner to visit my sister who lived there and i met a black man who turned my world upside down and we all had a few rotten years until i finally realised i had to make myself a new life with the Gambian because i couldn't get him out of my head!
But you realise that you just confirm yet another stereotype ? |
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molly75
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 16:45:44
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Kassma i was very interested to hear your point of view on being treated as a second class citizen in america. I think that much of the time white people don't see this happening or don't want to believe that this happens. I too have been guilty of not seeing this racism around me. 13 years ago i lived in Norway and saw it as beautiful country with friendly people. But when i met a Gambian student there and became friends, he told me that we couldn't sit at the front of the tram on our trip into the city centre.
When i asked why, he told me it was because he was black and black people all sit at the back!!! This completely shocked me and i insisted that we sit at the front. This is when i saw the racism in action, people avoiding the place where we were sat and the uncomfortable looks people were giving us. My friend told me this was something he had to live with daily and before that i had never even noticed it happening. I couldn't even begin to imagine how he felt, but i thought it was disgusting. Especially now that i have visited the Gambia and see how friendly Gambians are to the people visiting their wonderful country, it puts most of Europe and America to shame! |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 17:21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by twinkly
Babylon
Your change of hearts is surprising to me, but nice all the same.
Oh dear, that means you agree with what I said earlier in other topics?
Maybe we can shake hands now and discuss serious matters like this "seriously"
Sure, we can shake hands!
Actually, human rights and racism issues has always been close to my heart and been bothering me for as long as I can remember. So I don´t think I had a big change of hearts.
But I do agree that we can learn a lot from eachothers points of views and experiences. Maybe even change our way of thinking on some subjects.
That is why Bantaba is so great, we can often learn something new.
Have a nice weekend y´all!
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royale
Gambia
25 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 17:28:34
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Dave, though I find it interesting and disgusting at the same time, I don't know the purpose of your posting. What did you mean to show us?
Fact: There are Whites who abuse underage Africans, and Asians, and Latinos.
Fact: There are Whites who abuse underage Whites.
Fact: There are Africans who abuse underage Africans.
Fact: There are barely any Africans (Asians, Latinos) who abuse underage Whites.
If you want to balance accounts, count correctly. Or were you looking for an excuse, like: "Mom, I misbehaved, but Billy did the same!"?
Anyway, does it make any difference for the victims if they are abused by white or by black adults?
Good points made there serenata!! |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 17:30:52
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Twinkly no, in all honesty: i have no clue what kind of stereotyping you refer to? Couldn't it happen in any circumstance in any place on earth that you meet someone (doesn't matter what colour, doesn't matter what sex) who makes such an impression on you that you are in a turmoil (call it falling in love head over heels) and it takes some time before you know what your priorities are or that you are in such confusion that it is hard for a period to hear your own inner voice?
Or did you mean that by saying this i confirmed the fact that there might be some white men or women who go abroad to find a partner (like from an African country like the Gambia, or an Asian country like Thailand or a European country like Poland) because they haven't been able to find one at home? Of course i am not denying that these things occur, just like there is no denying the fact that some people (regardless of colour) find their partner through a dating agency or on the Internet.
Please, tell me what you mean with your question - i really would like to know! |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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dave
Ireland
89 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 18:16:18
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
Dave, though I find it interesting and disgusting at the same time, I don't know the purpose of your posting. What did you mean to show us?
Fact: There are Whites who abuse underage Africans, and Asians, and Latinos.
Fact: There are Whites who abuse underage Whites.
Fact: There are Africans who abuse underage Africans.
Fact: There are barely any Africans (Asians, Latinos) who abuse underage Whites.
If you want to balance accounts, count correctly. Or were you looking for an excuse, like: "Mom, I misbehaved, but Billy did the same!"?
Anyway, does it make any difference for the victims if they are abused by white or by black adults?
It makes absolutely no difference at all Serenata and your facts as stated I totally agree with. I didnt set out to "balance accounts" and I resent your suggestion I am looking for an excuse. I believe that all paedophilia is sick and all these people (men and women) need to be put in care where they cannoy cause any more harm to any kids, white, black, red, purple....whatever colour!!!!
I was simply highlighting what seems to have been going on in Ghana Town and I am most surprised the authorities in Gambia have not investigated matters as they should. I havent a racist bone in my body, I have a Gambian gf who I love very much and I support 2 Gambian kids with schooling etc. Most white folks on this Bantaba, as pointed out by Babylon, have the Gambia very much in their hearts and minds |
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dave
Ireland
89 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 18:18:35
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I am amazed that nobody, especially Kassma, has not responded to this posting. Can someone explain how this paedophile is allowed to get away with this?????
quote:
Originally posted by trouble1317
Did you know, that a five minute walk from palma rima, there is a peadophile who is actually an african. The Gambians know this and despite the fact that he molests children from the local compounds, nothing is done to put a stop to him..
Toubabs have tried to intervene, yet the gambian men refuse to act....turning a blind eye.
Why is this?
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 18:22:18
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| I have never heard of it. But your guess is as good as mine. There was an unsuspecting italian who was deported because of this. Tony infact crafted a song on how to get a Gambian woman and the song was a hit on the locat TV station. I am not suprised that he was into such a life style. I hope the authorities were right or may be he fell out of favour to some big man who was protecting him. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 18:54:28
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quote:
Originally posted by anna
Couldn't it happen in any circumstance in any place on earth that you meet someone (doesn't matter what colour, doesn't matter what sex) who makes such an impression on you that you are in a turmoil (call it falling in love head over heels) and it takes some time before you know what your priorities are or that you are in such confusion that it is hard for a period to hear your own inner voice?
I don't really want to answer this, I am not Gambian, but I'll risk it
One of the first thing I heard when I got to know Gambia, is people telling me about the women, that many many come to Gambia for a holiday with their husband or partner, and fall head over heels in love with a Gambian.And of course separate to be with the "Gambian lover".
Something I never witnessed myself but heard it so many times.
I know from our western point of view this is absolutely normal and common...... |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 18:55:24
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the people probably don't want to make a big fuss. i know it sounds too simply but i've noticed that a lot of people don't like confrontations. when i was really young, i stayed in serekunda, and there was a shop next to my house where this woman sold beans and cassava (sooooo good) and in front of her store, there was this house with a bigg white wall and us kids used to go there and get powdered milk from one of the men there. of course in gambia, that's normal. well one day, i was eating the powdered milk and the man put me on his lap. i didn't care, it was all about that powdered milk. i think i was about 4 or 5 at that time. i remember looking down and seeing that he had exposed himself. i jumped and ran back to my house. never told anyone, but recently a friend who lived close to my house told me that same man molested her when she was really young. i think we didn't say anything because although we were very young, we already knew nothing would come out of it and it would make things ackward, plus, since he's an adult it would be our word against his or that we might get in trouble for it and get blamed somehow.  |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 19:45:24
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Dave, this it what I meant. Your posting just sounded odd to me... Paedo'philes' (as they are wrongly called, because '-phile, -phily' means that you love someone/something, and these men don't love children. They use them, that's all) are ill people, weak people, and they should be in custody as long as they are not willing to undergo treatment.
Kassma, it is true - I too have the impression that Gambians don't like confrontations, and I think that sometimes the principle of non-interference is overdone in Gambia.
I understand you very well when you say that none of us whites can imagine how it feels to be a target of racism. To see a film about a country and to visit it can never be one and the same... |
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