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moongarden
United Kingdom
38 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 14:12:01
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quote:
Originally posted by dave
And most contributors to this Bantaba blame toubabs huh??????. Anyone brave enough to comment???
Hi Dave, it seems to me that you worded this opening sentance to provoke a heated response rather than a more reasoned discussion which might have resulted in some of us having a clearer understanding of each others point of view.
quote:
Originally posted by kassma
i'm aware that not every toubab is responsible but i think as a race, you guys do have to own up to the fact that your race has done horrible things to others. yeah, you probably were not born when it happened or you had nothing to do with it, but, be objective enough to realize that you are benefiting from the horrible actions of your ancestors, period!
Hi Kassma, you are right of course. Most countries and peoples have done something in their history which they are ashamed of including the UK. Maybe as a nation we choose to forget and to erase this from history books because it is is uncomfortable for us to hold on to this knowledge? African history and the history of slavery are not taught in school here and instead the teaching focuses on the world wars. Perhaps this is for much the same reason as great football victories are talked about but poor performances do not become the stuff of legend.
I have spent time in Auschwitz and Berkenau camps in Poland (i have some Polish family) and i will never forget how i felt or the lessons that we must all learn from what happened but believe me it was not a comfortable feeling and many tourists choose not to go there.
Oh and Kassma, i should hope dave was not born when it happened  |
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trouble1317
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 14:25:46
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Did you know, that a five minute walk from palma rima, there is a peadophile who is actually an african. The Gambians know this and despite the fact that he molests children from the local compounds, nothing is done to put a stop to him..
Toubabs have tried to intervene, yet the gambian men refuse to act....turning a blind eye.
Why is this? |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 15:27:17
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Greetings….Moongarden may I just point a word of correction on the teaching of History & Slave Trade in UK schools,it is taught in basic form from 7/8years of age, then followed through from 11/18years. But as you state, African History is not taught. That I believe to be totally unjust with so many African students in our infant/junior & senior schools.
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it - always.. Freedom & peace / sab
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The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 15:50:20
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quote:
Originally posted by sab
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it - always..
Thanks Sab, for those nice words of wisdom. |
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moongarden
United Kingdom
38 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 16:01:38
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Greetings Sab,
When i read your reply i made more efforts to research this and i must stand corrected. personally i was not taught either as part of my history lessons in school (although this was some years ago) which is a shame. i am only starting to learn it now and have a long way to go.
quote:
Originally posted by sab
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.
then let us walk the path of truth and love  |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 17:36:57
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
Dave, though I find it interesting and disgusting at the same time, I don't know the purpose of your posting. What did you mean to show us?
Fact: There are Whites who abuse underage Africans, and Asians, and Latinos.
Fact: There are Whites who abuse underage Whites.
Fact: There are Africans who abuse underage Africans.
Fact: There are barely any Africans (Asians, Latinos) who abuse underage Whites.
If you want to balance accounts, count correctly. Or were you looking for an excuse, like: "Mom, I misbehaved, but Billy did the same!"?
Anyway, does it make any difference for the victims if they are abused by white or by black adults?
thankyou Serenata i can always depend on you to think objectively and clearly. |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 17:54:43
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Greetings Babylon, the ‘words of wisdom’ are from another man who gave a life to ‘fighting for freedom’ - Mahatma Ghandi - 1869 -1948.
peace & regards... |
The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 17:56:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
Hi Kassma!
I don´t think none of the toubab members here at the Bantaba are racists, if they were why would they be here in the first place? I think all here are pretty intelligent and know our history more or less, and we are here because we love Africa and her people. Most of us know what happen in the past and don´t need to be reminded and lectured about it everyday. And we cannot be blamed for something that we didn´t do.
I understand you are angry with the past, but so are most of us toubabs. We can´t change the past no matter how we wish.
Hate is destructive, not only for yourself but for our society. To hate is the easiest solution, and one who spreads hate and negativity can affect so many people -especially those who have weak minds and are easy to influence or manipulate.
A strong, confident person on the other hand is a loving person with a positive mind who looks towards the future instead of the past.
We can not deny our past, but we will never move forward and make things better in this world if we let hate and let ignorance rule us.
Two wrongs don´t make it right.
I am not superior, you are not superior. Let us strive to be on the same level for we are all part of one race -the human race.
And you may think this may all sound like cliche´s or "imperial BS"... If that is your humble opinion then so be it. But I meant what I said.
Babylon, yes i am aware that everyone (pretty much everyone) knows the past; however, my point is there is not much acceptance and awareness among white people that the state of Africa and African descendents around the world are in the result of slavery and interaction between Europeans and Africans. it was and is those actions (like i've stated before)that African countries are considered 3rd world countries while european countries and america are 1st world countries. i think once whites take the responsibility of what they've done, i think finally we can move on. but with my experience, whites think that they are where they are simply cause they're brilliant or something. however, that success came from the destruction and delibrate systematic discrimination against others, and it continues today. no i'm not hateful, (i'm sick of whites trying to throw the race card AT ME or any other black person who expresses displeasure at our current state - do you know i've had a white guy call me racist because i wouldn't go out with him - I still can't believe it ) but my experiences in america and trying to earn a BS in International Affairs has shown me that there are systems in place that keep things the way they are which of course benefits some (mostly whites) and disadvantages others (mostly blacks).and a lot of white people don't like to recognize that. |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 18:05:14
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since i don't know how to edit my posting, i forgot to add this little piece:
why would someone racist join a forum like Bantaba?
a lot of racist whites are involved in interacial marriages, or interaction with people they feel are inferior to them. it makes them feel superior to be in close contact to those that they feel are below them. it is mostly people with inferiority complexes themselves who actively sort minorites so that they can engage in behaviors not allowed in their own group, or say things that they would not say within in their own group, or feel the same sense of power they would not feel within their own group. of course, not all whites are like this but enough are. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 18:27:49
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quote:
Originally posted by kassma
Babylon, yes i am aware that everyone (pretty much everyone) knows the past; however, my point is there is not much acceptance and awareness among white people that the state of Africa and African descendents around the world are in the result of slavery and interaction between Europeans and Africans. it was and is those actions (like i've stated before)that African countries are considered 3rd world countries while european countries and america are 1st world countries. i think once whites take the responsibility of what they've done, i think finally we can move on. but with my experience, whites think that they are where they are simply cause they're brilliant or something. however, that success came from the destruction and delibrate systematic discrimination against others, and it continues today. no i'm not hateful, (i'm sick of whites trying to throw the race card AT ME or any other black person who expresses displeasure at our current state - do you know i've had a white guy call me racist because i wouldn't go out with him - I still can't believe it) but my experiences in america and trying to earn a BS in International Affairs has shown me that there are systems in place that keep things the way they are which of course benefits some (mostly whites) and disadvantages others (mostly blacks).and a lot of white people don't like to recognize that.[/quote]
I agree with you actually. You´re right about the racist system here in the west and the white mans superior thinking, which I have wrote about here before.
It is sickening!
Black people still face a lot of discrimination both in the US and over here in Sweden and it has to stop. People have to become more aware and work against discrimination. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 19:17:29
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Thanx, Kassma !
It makes me furious to see someone reporting terribly sad things only to use them in this childish whites-bite-blacks-and-vice-versa-game. I regard this as a cynical, additional abuse of the victims.
Though I 'counted' myself, I propose to think about why people do such things. What makes people so weak that they need to use their power on the weakest? |
Edited by - serenata on 23 Mar 2006 19:24:04 |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 22:13:20
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The most effective way to be confronted with racism against black people, being a white person yourself: choose a black person for a partner. It is really an eyeopener, a hard lesson. It makes you look at some of your best friends (or even close family members) twice and wonder...
Kassma,
i have trouble combining the endearing baby you chose for your avatar with the harsh, considerably hurtful remarks you make about 'a lot of racist whites being involved in interracial marriages, or interaction with people they feel are inferior to them, it makes them feel superior..etc'
Who are to you say this, are you a psychotherapist? Are you talking from experience? Or maybe you feel at ease in the victimrole so that you can find an excuse for whatever misfortune will happen to you..
I resent your observations from the bottom of my heart, and consider them unnecessary insulting. I really don't know what emotion i have to deal with first because of this: anger or sadness or should i just shrug my shoulders and decide you are not very wise.
They only comfort i have is when looking at the words 'a lot'. I know i don't have to count myself. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 22:45:12
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| a lot of whites do, its true, its a fact. did i say ALL whites, no!! so get off my back! |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 22:57:09
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quote:
Originally posted by anna
The most effective way to be confronted with racism against black people, being a white person yourself: choose a black person for a partner. It is really an eyeopener, a hard lesson. It makes you look at some of your best friends (or even close family members) twice and wonder...
Kassma,
i have trouble combining the endearing baby you chose for your avatar with the harsh, considerably hurtful remarks you make about 'a lot of racist whites being involved in interracial marriages, or interaction with people they feel are inferior to them, it makes them feel superior..etc'
Who are to you say this, are you a psychotherapist? Are you talking from experience? Or maybe you feel at ease in the victimrole so that you can find an excuse for whatever misfortune will happen to you..
I resent your observations from the bottom of my heart, and consider them unnecessary insulting. I really don't know what emotion i have to deal with first because of this: anger or sadness or should i just shrug my shoulders and decide you are not very wise.
They only comfort i have is when looking at the words 'a lot'. I know i don't have to count myself.
if these observations don't apply to you, why are you upset. is it so hard to hear some of the unjust and simply weird things some white people do. honestly, ur being a bit too sensitive. how do i know, yeah, i have seen behavior like that before. no i am not a psychotherapist, no i don't consider myself a victim, therefore saying this does nothing to make me feel better. i was hoping i can fully open the eyes of some of the white people on this forum. from my experience some whites don't like to own up to their actions or the actions of the fellow white folks. if nothing applies to you, then don't worry about it. maybe you've never been a witness to it, but i have. but at least be objective enough to realize that what i'm saying is true. |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 00:35:58
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It is hard to react objectively to your accusations since i am one of these white people involved in an interracial relationship. But you are right, i shouldn't take it so hard since what you talk about doesn't apply to me (or to any of my white friends or black friends, male or female, involved in interracial relationships).
In my opening paragraph i admitted that there is racism against black people which i found out from the second i introduced my Gambian lover to 'my world'. Even from people you least expect it from. Sometimes people are trying so hard to hide that they are racist at heart that it becomes embarrassing.
After 4 years we have gotten used to it and we are no longer bothered by it.
Sometimes your reactions are so harsh that it seems as if this aspect of human life in our lifetimes is first and foremost in your mind, i hope it doesn't make you lose your joy about life and love. So, that made me wonder about the baby...
But i am no psychotherapist either, and you don't seem to be the kind to appreciate small talk.
Goodnight, anyway |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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