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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 18:17:32
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| right momodou, it is getting rediculous now.even a bunch of junkies can put together a manifesto. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 19:51:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
brother janko ,that is a powerful poem.thanks for the variation.
the view i am getting from both dbaldeh and brikama is that the udp lack the manpwower or intellectual credentials to produce or even comprehend a simple manifesto.i think this is absolutely preposterious.we may disaggree with each other on matters of principles but belittling each other should not be part of our national debate.
it is a wanton disregard for the udp inner circle for others to throw accussation that they cannot even think of a manifesto.
what is the purpose of a manifesto ? is a manifesto the end in itself? why has both the udp and pdois fail to woo voters with there respective party manifestos ?
The udp according what the little i know of them have many gambian with the calibre to produce much more than a manifesto .what we may need discussing further on is how can the oppossition device means to get the attention of desolution gambian voters. the udp is far ahead of pdois interms reach and support span .the problem for both parties is not how good or well research a party manifesto is but how Gambians should be attracted to the meaasges of the oppossition.we can debate all we like about the intellectual credentials of our respective parties but truth be told that will not result in the removing of the incumbent .
manifesto changes over time ,party political priorities change ,so a manifesto doesn't necessarily tell any thing concrete.it is a wish kind of thing .if's and when's.but the udp is still in oppossition.the pdois is still in oppossition ,and we are busy trying to proof which manifesto is more well reseach whilst yahya with or without a party manifesto is entrecnhing himself day by day.
Is it that the pdois camp underestimate darboe and his team to extend that they believe them to be an uneducated bunch of old guard regrouping under a different platform ? the pdois camp should try to woo the udp voters and the aprc voters but the methods should be polite i think .femi peters is with a doctorate,darboe a barister,and many more who are highly qualify to do a job of producing more than a manifesto .it is an insult to them according to view.
overelaborating on issues doesn't say any thing .effectiveness doesn't mean over elaboration .some of our oppossition can't just answer questions directly ,they have to take a three hundred and sixty degrees route to arrive at a simple answer.that bafle ordinary simple gambians.it may appeal to the cream of our society ,it may engage them in spreading the intellectual standing of the man but at the end the message circulate among very few.
yet dbaldeh make it known that a good manifesto doesn't equal good governenance or posperity ,so what is the problem ? producing a manifesto takes into account the immeadiate state of the country .what are the top priorities for the citizens? this may mean few vital issues and then more less important national matters.for example .what is it that the gambia currently need in our institutions of government ? good leadership,rule of law,stabilty,job creation,currency regulation,a well train work force etc .some one else would think of a different things.a manifesto most provide a choice for the citizens.party manifestos shouldn't be the same.
Santanfa, you should read carefully between the lines before you rush to conclusion. The worst thing a reader can do is to jump to conclusion without understanding what is written.
No where in my arguments or that of Brikama have we said that UDP lacks the intellectual credentials to produce a manifesto. If you go back to my original postings on Darboe you will see the credit I gave him for his knowledge and experience in his field of expertise.
I personally know people in the UDP who are very educated and respectful. So you have completely miss the argument that is being debated.
Please go back again and read the threads and understand the logic behind the issue of the manifesto.
Our contention is that UDP's political leadership especially Darboe has made some very serious questionable political decisions that led to them losing support from the Gambian people. It is the same kind of decision that lead them to hastily withdraw from the NADD coalition without putting into consideration the national consequencies. They allow an outside group which is not necessarily the UDP leadership to dictate how the party should be runned by hastily putting together an academically presentable document, rahter than one that has political substance.
The issue of the manifesto need to be understand before you can effectively rejoin to the debate. Sometimes some of us just READ BETWEEN THE LINES looking for something negative.
Our conclusion is that there is a disconnect between UDP leadership and their party base and as a result they cannot take on Jammeh single handedly without the support of the rest of the opposition. Therefore, it becomes all the more urgent for a coalition which they broke unceremoniously.
So please read carefully, think about the discussions before jumping into a rather uneducative conclusion. Again, we are not questioning the intellectual capability of the UDP leadership, but rather their political maturity and organizational constraints to lead a nation that needs the best of the best to change things around.
I hope you go back and read the threads again over night.
Thanks for the rejoinder.
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 20:13:53
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with all due respect demba ,the issue surrounding the manifesto clearly indicate that the udp copy or plaigaise from the defunct ppp.udp copying their party manifesto from the ppp meant that they could not produce their own manifesto from scrach.of course your posting is more intelligeable than mine but i can clearly see what you meant by COPYING FROM PPP.
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 22:03:23
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quote:
Originally posted by dbaldeh
You are bend on deviating from the substance of the issues. I have never been a supporter of the PPP and DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR MANIFESTO. What don't you understand about that?
Do I need to speak mandinka to make you understand simple language. Why not answer the question or dwell on the substance of my assertion?
"That it is one thing to produce a document and another thing to follow its command" How elementary do you want me to go to explain to you?
I will say it again, the production of that manifesto does not reflect on the actions and decision making maturity of your party leadership. Do you despute that? Give us your reasons....
All the above implies that you do not have reasonable belief for any of the assertions/allegations you made against the UDP, that you spread malicious lies as befitting a lair and utter outlandish and irresponsible statements out of a great desire to lie and distort facts. You therefore don't worth engaging in a debate.
If NADD is equated to national interest and the UDP the contrary, they would not have had almost five times less votes that UDP. On nomination day, Halifa have ask the nation to judge between UDP and NADD and the verdict is 5:1. 23,000 voted for NADD, over 100,000 voted for UDP. That is the unchanged verdict. What an utter defeat? |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 30 Oct 2007 22:20:30 |
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brikama
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 00:21:00
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Thank you, Dbaldeh.
I have observed that Santanfara just pretends to be on the fence but by closely looking at his postings, it is not hard to see his leaning. He always blindly defends the UDP and Lawyer Darboe and criticizes Halifa Sallah. Why is he complaining about the publication of Halifa’s high profile engagements? Recently, he (Santanfara) started a discussion topic on who are Halifa Sallah and Ousainou Darboe? I think he should be happy with such a publication so he can have a clearer understanding of Halifa that he is a man of high caliber. Whether he likes it not, Halifa would flourish and his services would be utilized by civilized peoples around the world.
I agree that Lawyer Darboe and many others in the UDP are well educated. What I question is their political competence. UDP started out with a very large following, capable of dislodging the APRC from power, but they misused the opportunity many times due to political blunders upon political blunders.
For Nyarikangbanna, I think his analysis of election results is misleading. He wrote “If NADD is equated to national interest and the UDP the contrary, they would not have had almost five times less votes than UDP. On nomination day, Halifa have ask the nation to judge between UDP and NADD and the verdict is 5:1. 23,000 voted for NADD, over 100,000 voted for UDP.” Does it also mean that APRC is even more equated to national interest than both UDP and NADD combined because it had more votes? No. We all know politics in the Gambia is mostly based on sentiments rather than national interest. If politics in the Gambia is strictly based on national interest, both the UDP and APRC would have been history long, long time ago.
Brikama
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 01:40:50
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Thanks Brikama, these is the kind of political level of comprehension we have to deal with. This is the same challenge the folks at PDOIS tried to eliminate for over two decades.
Could you imagine if the people who are atleast with some level of western education have this narrow political understanding, how would the folks who still see Presidents as lords and kings would react or vote?
Our nation and people have a long way to go in our political destiny. As Thomas Sankara once said "A soldier without political education is like a virtual beast" A politician without political education is even worst if I may add.
Many simply cannot separate personality interest from public interest. They still want to ride the back of the poor in their own selfish interest. Many politicians in the Gambia today are just there by virtue of social pressure. Others thing they can make a career and formulate a kingdom by controling or aspiring to control tax payers resources.
It is the same level of reasoning from these folks over and over again. It is all about me me and my party. When shall Gambia and its people have their turn???
The battle to combat ignorance is much more urgent today than ever. Exposure to knowledge is apparently not good enough. So sad indeed... |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 04:25:14
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Brimaka,
Thanks for the opportunity, once again, for the NADD manifesto. It is a day breaking trailblazer piece.
I am coming to agree with your conclusion that my good uncle Santa, either have an interest on the other side, or not seeing the facts as they happened.Talking about his neatrality between UDP and NADD is long since history. But he is entitled that political opinion.
Mawdo Demba,
I started my research on the UDP manifesto, and the alleged plagarism deal. I shall place it before this forum. I hope that what they produced was theirs, in its originality. It is progressing well. This is not an undermine of the UDP"s integritty, as Janko noted his poem, but it is an effort clear the air on that alleged plagarism deal. If it wasn't plagarized, so be they be free for ever, undisturbed by the 'yunkas' and the 'Gelagos.'
Back to the Darboe deal:
See, Janko, i must say i like your poem; but i totally disagree with its contents. The literature is very sound, but its contents an effort to justify something apparently clear to all and sundry.
For a fact, i hate to be the one to wake up these sleeping dogs. Like Bush once said " Knowing what i know now, and what i knew then." Not that i respect Bush, another misfortune to humanity and the American people, but just the literature as he uttered it.
(I)When Darboe offered his interview at the Point newspaper, where he mentioned Afang Kemo prophesy. That is a deal not very famous to discuss in forums. It will as well fair that we review those statements under this topic.
(II) I am still having on my desk, the little MOU document of NADD. At the back of it, i see Darboe's signature, together with Yaya Jallow. Darboe's last minute withdrawal from that 'treaty' remains unsolved mystery.
(III) When Hamat was doing the campaign, he used to clearly mention the mandinka and fula population, adding them up to say that will be the result.
Much respect to anyone in the struggle, especially Darboe, and the many others. Over the past year, i interacted with a lot of UDP supporters, including Saihou Mballow, Karamba, Ebrima Dibba et cetera....i mean very close infact. It only help me to respect them and their party. Amin, their support when we started UGAMA was tremendous.
But here are the facts to the matter. Those PPP 'yompis-yompis' -the spoilers as they can be called. The fact, and only fact remains, Gambians were truly robbed the opportunity to unseat jammeh in 2006. In the later end to the final demise, the correspondence between NADD and the UDP/NRP-is still in records. That's still there to renew the dripping tears.
In the end, lets agree that NADD is/was neither UDP nor PDOIS. Not NDAM, NRP or PPP either. It was all these parties combined. Now, part of the signatory states " it seizes when all the political constituents that formed NADD seizes to be member parties."
Lets roll it body.
Manda, manda, manda!
See your ink is wetting my hand
my itching hand to be, O scripter
of Gelajo and Yunka.
In my reply to thee,
I tell thee Gelajo and Yunka
were there by the side
at dawn or cock-crow
But thee sees not the juda
when Jesus foretold in the testament
"Before dawn, you shall denounce knowing me"
In disgust, all the deciples flattered.
Here, we are "years of sorrow"
leaning on the backs of a tyrant
Yet, we see nothing wrong
to the wrongs of time.
Like the real men said
"history shall be te judge"
That only the truth will last
Amen! |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Edited by - Dalton1 on 31 Oct 2007 04:29:27 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 04:39:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
As far as I know UDP declined participation in that conference and therefore did not present any paper there. Infact, the UDP Manifesto came up after that conference. I read the document you referred to in the net. I do not know anything about it been plagarized but what I do know is this; it is certainly not a UDP manisfesto. I read both documents and I know the difference.
Sheriff Daffeh,
Let me put it to you and all readers that there is inaccuracy in your above utterances.
I) The manifesto was in Chicago, in sept 2006 (labor weekend), because i reported a story on it. If you deny this, i reproduce the story as it happened there. You can as well ask Karamba, because he was the one the midwest-committee were in touch with, and forwarded it there.
II) Secondary to that, what Karamba told them then, was that darboe was busy with campaign. I am certain, Karamba is closest to the UDP tops, if so you are telling us different to contradict what he said then, if i may question of the motive behind it.
III) I like the way you stated it that-"I do not know anything about it been plagarized but what I do know is this;"
That's why we should all find out.
Give me just a little time, Sheriff Daffeh.
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 09:56:25
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brikama,are you neutral in your political postings ? and i know for certain dbaldeh is not .he lean more than he should as an editor to pdois camp than is expected. that is my personal observation.
so we are not here to decide which camp some one else is.i write good things about pdois as i see it .i don't swallow every thing from their camp and similarly i do the same with the udp.if any one start to insinuate that a tribal politics of the past still present then i am here to declear that ,similar accussations are thrown at the good name of halifa.my reason for asking about halifa is to allow members to correctly debunk those comments.But it seems some want us to see only one side of darboe.dalton,thanks.to be candid ,i have never seen darboe in my life.only heard him speak on gambiapost onces.i have seen and heard halifa on numerous occassions.i have seen sedia and heard him speak on countless occassions ,i use to even live with a foroyaas newswriter for a couple of months who contested a seat for them. i as an independent gambian choose to distant myself from all the current political parties.i don't buy into them whole heartedly.i have only voted once.
one thing i wish to know is the succession structures in both darboe's udp and halifa's pdois .how are they cultivating future leaders ? it is all good to say darboe is old ,he need to stand down but leadership reguires proper cultivation and clear visisionary planning.this issue is not made clear by both udp and pdois.
Darboe ,i believe has both strengths and weaknesses ,just like halifa has both his strenghts and weaknesses.Darboe is now as veteran in the field of being an oppossition leader as is halifa.it is up to inner members of the parties to decide who next they want to lead them.
i defend darboe in cases of unreasonable pdois's fans maligning his image and character.that doesn't in any way make me his supporter.
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 10:01:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalton1
Brimaka,
undisturbed by the 'yunkas' and the 'Gelagos.'
See, Janko, i must say i like your poem; but i totally disagree with its contents. The literature is very sound, but its contents an effort to justify something apparently clear to all and sundry.
The intention of my poem is to break the ice, and secondly to remind us most of the people we are fighting for are not able to take part or understand what is said.
But a text is for all to interpret in the way it fits one |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 17:21:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
right momodou, it is getting rediculous now.even a bunch of junkies can put together a manifesto.
Santanfara! These comments are ridiculous. However I would take this opportunity to thank Momodou on his remarks in pointing out an observation (CLEAR FACTS!) on the purported U.D.P manifesto I forwarded.
I would give my reasons for forwarding that manifesto later!  |
Edited by - kobo on 31 Oct 2007 17:22:41 |
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brikama
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 22:00:56
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Santanfara,
I am a PDOIS supporter, and am not ashamed of it. Which party do you support? From your postings, you pretend to be on the fence, but in actual fact you lean towards UDP. I was once told that a person who pretends to be on the fence does not believe in themselves. Why can’t you tell us which party you support rather than pretend to be neutral?
On the topic about who is Halifa, KOBO asked you many questions relating your bias comments about Halifa Sallah and PDOIS, but you chose to ignore them citing time constraints. If you are prepared to answer those questions, I am sure KOBO would be willing to post them here under this topic.
One thing very important is that we are dealing with vital issues affecting our country. Am sure most of the writers here are outside the Gambia looking for better living conditions for them and their families. However, Gambia will always remain our home and no one would develop it for us. So we must analyze the issues with open minds so we can find solutions to our many problems.
Why do we blindly support some individuals or party that has clearly demonstrated unwillingness, or inability to lead our dear country into the 21st century? Personally, I don’t blame the majority of Gambians who does not know dimensions of the issues affecting us. I blame the so-called educated elites who know what is going on in the country.
Brikama
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 23:06:01
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you are too late in the day.i am not for secular democarcy in the format of both udp and pdois.period.i only defend darboe when the pdois camp try to unduely assasinate his character.i am not the type of person who sit on the fense.you should know that from my postings.i don't want to drag us back into another unnecessary democracy debate.the questions kobo asked where irrralevant and that time i was busy and that is that.i will declear my support for any party that in way cater for certain principles i adhere to in a party.untill then ,it is my right not to subscribe to any party.
if you are proud to support pdois ,what would make me shy from declearing my support for darboe if that is what i wish ? this are the type comments that make many distant themself from pdois.some of you supporters become too cocky .the way you see and like pdosi ,similarly some see and like udp .that is the principle of a decent democracy. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 16:48:51
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I never said I speak for UDP neither did I ever said I am a member. My moral support, however, has been made available since the NADD stalmate that preceded the 2006 election. I have seen no reason to withdraw that support. Instead, what I keep seeing is the need to continue giving that moral support and encourage others to do the same. I shall remain steadfast in that endevour. I speak for myself on the basis of what I know. There is nobody close to UDP [apart from Mr Mballow] leadership who can claim he knows me.
Regarding Darboe, I will wrap up with this hard fact; love him or loathe him, he is the most popular opposition figure the Gambia has ever produced since independence.
I will now leave Halifa's desciples with their perpetual bitterness about UDP withdrawal from NADD. There is no cure for that. It will follow them all into your graves as the withdrawal will never be revised. UDP voters are happy about it. They still continue to vote for their party and leader in their over 100,000 numbers. UDP now needs to get the passive electorates to get involved and get voting for the Party. That is their task and i hope they make progress before the next general election.
That 'wee Darboe' slogan will be around for a while.
Rest my case in peace.
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 01 Nov 2007 17:52:34 |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 17:11:56
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quote:
Originally posted by brikama
Thank you, Dbaldeh.
We all know politics in the Gambia is mostly based on sentiments rather than national interest. If politics in the Gambia is strictly based on national interest, both the UDP and APRC would have been history long, long time ago.
Brikama
Can you define national interest please. I think that is a sweeping statement standing on quick sand to be washed away.
Each individual has a vote and they vote based on what is important to them not what is important to you.
Are you saying that politics in the gambia is sucidal to a point that they vote in people not based on "national interest"? Each person has an intetest and fortunately or unfortunately, these interests will never be same for all of us.
Why do you believe that APRC and UDP are not of national interest? Although you have not said which party is, but judging by your previous postings, you are a PDOIS supporter. Like the wolof say: KOO RACHA TAYE SA KANAM or in mandinka: MO MO KAFO ILA BORO LEYEH TIEW TIEW. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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