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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 12:02:58
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| Let us continue to search for peace in the world... |
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Sibo
Denmark
231 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 13:51:44
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Kay
What I do not understand is why US fell that they have to bring democracy to Iraq. There are a lot of other countries in the world lacking democracy as well, like our tiny nation of Gambia. Why is america not trying to bring democracy there??????
Alhassan
The american foriegn policy sucks big time, but that does not mean that we have to support terrorism. Terrorists are killing innocent people all over the world amd you are supporting that??? And it sounds to me like you are passing out threats. Be careful what you write |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 15:40:10
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Sibo,
I will be sure. I do not support terrosism but I support freedom fighters. Why are these people risking their lives? They must have a reason. For us who are not in their position, we can say whatever we feel. Even Bin Laden is a freedom fighter. Those who kill themselves for their freedom have a reason to do so. Bin Laden was an American boy until he said no to US imperialism. This is the case for most of the freedom fighters. I can only see bullies from the West fighting the undiciplined freedom fighters in Irak. We have seen Al Sadar and his army. Why cant he be disarmed by the occupation forces? The division between the people of Irak today is vast. Every group wants self government. This would mean dividing Irak into tre different parts. For another reason why is the US and EU so ancious with the division of Serbia? Why not free Palistiane with is own self government if they are after democracy? I am tired of the hippocricy of the US and EU. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 16:41:53
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Let us continue to search for peace in the world...
Thats possible if they stop politics of RACISM(Arabs, Jews, West, Palestine, Israel, US, you name it whatever) & BELIEF (RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY!). What made this world dangerous is deeply rooted on the Paslestine / Israel crises. Unfortunately they are siamese twins and share the same great grandfather (Prophet Abraham) and theological history (i.e. on God, monothesism, Adam & great prophets). They share things in common and the same HOLY LAND
However corruption is at play, materialism and POLITICS Stopping war for World peace SAVES LIVES BEING LOST EVERYDAY IN THE MEDIA AS A DAILY MOVIE AND BILLIONS BEING WASTED ON ARMS & WMDs!
Let our GREAT LEADERS go back to the drawing board on UN, where our visionary leaders after World war II started to account the mistakes & losses on humanitarian grounds to chart out a UN CHARTER FOR WORLD PEACE & SECURITY. No country big or small should have vetoe power to dictate UN policies. That can help in my opinion. |
Edited by - kobo on 13 Sep 2007 16:53:18 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 17:02:46
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Kayjatta, like you and every other reasonable person I don’t favor terrorism. And I don’t deny the fact that the world is confronted with a wave of terror. But I also don’t favor counter-terror. And I think it is more than cynical, bigoted and tasteless to use an alleged ’war’ on terrorism as excuse for the occupation of two countries  . Though I don’t agree with Alhassan in his opinion about terrorism he is right when he says that the US government is a bunch of hypocrites.
I don’t mean the US government was directly behind 9/11. But I could imagine that they knew what Al Qaida was planning, and that they did nothing against it because it gave them the opportunity they were waiting for. Don’t tell me that morals could stop people like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, or Rove. To my mind, these people are heavy criminals who hijacked the USA. How did they know the names of the the alleged terrorists so quick? What did they do with the early warnings which came from CIA agents? Did these warnings really go unheard? And why did Atta & Co. leave a paper trail broader than the Gambia River?
There are indeed many open questions. Maybe complex tragedies like this one always leave us with a lot of questions, and maybe it is only the notorious secret-mongering of the US officials which encouraged all those conspiracy theories. But if they had nothing to hide, why this slyness? |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 20:24:22
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kobo
quote:
1) that this politics is not about religious ideology, because you were wrong to stated in quotes "As an ideology islam is not even close to compete with west. We can't beat them in typical war. We can't take over their economies.". Please note that you appear to single out ISLAM as an isolated religion from other religions and the sole competitor with your so-called West(tern political ideology!).
West demonizing Islam as the enemy. After the fall of Communism, west wanted to have enemy. Because, they like to live with the enemy. That is why they created Islam. However, they don't make any sense, because we are not in enemy position to them. They are already superior to us in terms. We are no threat to them. Neither economically, politically or tecnologically. That is the point I am trying to make. They created this 'virtual reality enemy islam' but that is not the case. They have hidden agenda. Contrary what you say, I am not singleing out the islam and I am saying we are not competitor. Islam being enemy, competitor or singling out is totally virtual reality by west.
quote:
2) To elaborate further that this war on so-called terror is not between West(tern ideology) and ISLAM. Thats why I stated that "Politics has shifted in dividing the world further based on religion. Now Muslism are the victims and Bin Laden is capitalising on that to justify his course."
Totally. It is about their imperial interests and provokation of muslims. Like they talk suicide bombers as a lunatic Masochists who like to kill themselves. They don't realize that most of them lost their close family members, relatives, they are being humiliated by israeli soldiers everyday. They are starving and slave in their own land. They are like blacks under white regime in south africa. Terrorism is 'reaction' to western provokation. Ofcourse terrorism is wrong. That is why they want to do wrong. That is why they provoke us.
Muslim are being profiled in western society as fanatic, potential lunatic individuals. It is common practise to focus on muslims as a potential terrorist at the airports. Or on shows, they try to portray us as lunatics who treat our women as slave, religious fanatics, ignorant, aggressive individuals. Isn't it segregation? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 13 Sep 2007 20:24:50 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 20:29:16
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serenata
You are right. I mean when you look at the Kennedy assasination, one might think what yankees might to next. And the next question is, did yankees really land on the moon 38 years ago? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 20:33:28
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Let us continue to search for peace in the world...
Ahem. Malcolm X says
"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom. "
and al-hassan. Peter Ustinov is supporting you by saying:
Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 13 Sep 2007 20:37:07 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 21:30:42
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I have just read this posting for the first time and the hostility in some of the postings makes me very sad.
Especially from Alhasan and to a lesser extent Turk and Serenata.
I can't justify any terrorist acts at all. Violence that kills innocent people should be condemned. Whether it is in Northern Ireland, North of Spain, South Africa, Israel, USA etc...
I believe in Ghandis view of peaceful resistance.
Many Muslims on this web site have quoted Islam as being a Peaceful religion, and yet in the UK we have Muslim clerics preaching radicalism and hatred of christians. Who controls what these people say?
Many people on these pages seem to hate USA, and all it's people. Americans are individuals, the same as Gambians are individuals. Some are lovely, kind and tolerant, some are racist and intolerant. It is the same in any country.
Most people in USA are God fearing and I suspect if a Muslim person and an American Christian met they would have lots of shared values and lots in common.
I am not in favour of our troops being in Afganistan or Iraq. Why should we have people killed for the sake of protecting what exactly? To me it is not a just war. I am not a fan of G W Bush. I am a socialist. BUT I AM ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED TO TERRORISM. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 21:32:43
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Kayjatta, glad you are a democrat!!!  |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 00:59:24
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Well Bev
I have a question for you. What is the difference between terrorism (which I condemn) and collataral damage by army? While I support you condeming terrorism, there are double standards coming from you. While muslims are expected to condemn the terrorism, and actually most of us do. When we relate the source of terrorism to western provocation, we are labeled as supporting terrorism. How is so? You say you don't support war. Good. Thank you. But most of brits supported war. So are they equal to those muslims who support terrorism?
So I condemn terrorism. But I am pointing out the one of the root cause for this problem. WHy is it hostility? If british public support the war? Do you also consider that to be hostility?
IRA was terrorist. It was from ireland. How come Brits did not invade ireland?
I see west attitude against terrorism is good excuse to expand their imperial interests. Do you want terrorism to stop. It is very easy. Just move all the western troops from middleeast and push for political solutions. If you don't like what is happening in middleast. Apply sanction, stop the trade, freeze the diplomatic relations. Isn't it double standard? I mean we all listen the hypocracy 'violant youth must be dealt. what do we do. do we kill them, or provide social programs', how come this approach is not apply on terrorism. Why not try to solve issues with diplomatic way and social policy than start invading? What do you think? What is the cause of terrorism? Is it just something coded in our DNA? Or there are social and political injustice also behind it. Also you are giving Gandhi as a model for muslims to deal problems with violance. That is great. At the same time, do you also suggest Bush to take Gandhi as a model instead of bombing thousands of innocent? The double standard here is "muslims are expected to condemn terrorism. They should do so. If they don't it is hostility. But if british public for example do not condemn attack on iraq. That is not hostility". What do you think?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 14 Sep 2007 03:41:52 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 01:00:30
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| and may I add? Bev. Do you know the analogy of Malcolm X. Farm slave, house slave one? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 08:17:24
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Sibo , thanks for your question "why U.S. feel they have to bring democracy to Iraq and not other countries like the Gambia?" The answer is simple "STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE". The geopolitical location of Iraq has a huge bearing on political , and economic events in the middle-east and subsequently on world security. Also the dictatorship in Iraq under Saddam Hussein is known for violent repression by using chemical weapons on Kurds and other groups that disgree with him. Saddam's government has also been known to be vigorously pursuing nuclear weapons in addition to widely believed "stock piles of chemical and biological weapons" (the stock pile theory turned out to be wrong because they had been destroyed), yet Saddam refused to comply with dozens of U.N. resolutions to allow inspectors to verify his weaponry. He continously gave the impression to the world that he still had weapons of mass destruction. Saddam's regime has also been link to terrorists due to the presence of Al Zaqawi in Iraq and Saddam's bank rolling of families of suicide bombers in a post 911 world.
The Gambia does not fit into any of these scenarios I have depicted above. Since "self preservation is the first law of nature" ,U.S. , like any other country , Germany , France , the U.K. , Russia , etc will act in its own best interest (all other factors being equal). U.S. happened to be one of the countries that believe that the only way to have lasting peace in the middle-east (a very turbulent part of the world) is to establish democracy in its major players on the geopolitical scene. That is why Iraq has to have a system of government that recognizes all its citizens; likewise Afghanistan. Egypt , Saudi Arabia , and Jordan (U.S.'s traditional allies in the Mid-east) are also being pushed to effect democratic reforms. Democracy and Islam should be able to co-exist. Do you remember when Reagan bombed Lybia in 1986 because of Gaddaffi's involvement in international terrorism ? Now look at Lybia coming back on the world stage after denouncing terrorism . I am going to end with the words of Sir Dawda K. Jawara, "ni imang ma kula , ku te ila".
Bev. thank you again for your great ideas and opinions , we are just on the same page... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 14 Sep 2007 08:19:25 |
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Sibo
Denmark
231 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 09:12:34
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Alhassan
I do not agree with you one bit. If these people are fighting for their freedom then they are doing it in a very wrong way, sending all the wrong signals. I believe they will go a longer way with peace than they are with violence. Look at the black people in USA and south Africa and look at India. They all gain their freedom through peace. It sounds to me like you are justifing these terrorists killing innocent people all over the world. I do not see them as freedom fighters at all , especially Bin Laden. What freedom or who´s freedom is he fighting for??????
Turk
I agree that it is wrong, I mean very wrong, but the thing is these terrorist are the ones to blame when they claim to be fighting in the name of ALLAH. I would like to know where in the Quran they have read that it is ok to kill innocent people.
Kay
Let me see if I understand you correctly. US feels threatened by Saddam because of hi WMD and they had to do whatever it takes to get rid of that threat even if it means screwing up the lives of innocent Iraqis?????
Gambia might not fit i the geopolitical scenario, but it definately fits in the scenario of killing people who disagree with the president, the lacking of freendom of expression and violation of human right.
And no I do not remember when Reagen bombed Lybia in 1986, I was just 2 years old at the time, haha. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 09:34:10
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You are kidding me , you mean I am older than you? You sound like you are quite young though...haha Sibo.
You know , but you can't have it both ways Sibo . See Alhassan and I are on opposite sides of the argument , and you disagree with both of us , where do you stand? Now you are sounding more like my Turkish friend... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 14 Sep 2007 09:34:38 |
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