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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Mar 2006 : 21:13:58
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Biraago
I am not very comfortable the way you address some political issues and there seems to be some element of tribalism in that. UDP is the Jamfa Kunda connotes a tribal sentiment and it makes me wonder if you are able to play in a levelled field.
Why do you use mandinka equivalents of hate, betrayal and anything unpleasant. This is a forum in English and perhaps it might be better to stick to that. Rememeber the same equivalents are in all the tribes in the gambia.
I am a liberal democrat and i beleieve Ousainou like any gambian has a democratic right to make decisions for themselves. Democracy is about patience and being able to convince people to follow your party and programmes. Halifa had that patience for over ten years and i have never heard him say or describe other people. I have been with PDOIS since its inception. i think democracy is beginning to take root in the Gambia and most of us are not use to it. There is no janfa in politics. Expresssing choice is fundamental to genuine democracy and if ousainou does not tow your political line does not make him bad. May be some one has not convincing enough or there was no binding force to unite the parties. Why is hamat not seen in the same light as Ousainou. infact latest reports indicate that PPP is out of NADD. Check the point nnewspaper. I believe the break up of nadd is beyond UDP and those of us who are not priviledged to be at the meetings can only rely on second hand reports. I hope eventually every one will be Janfa Kunda because the trend is pointing to that. There are fundamental historical differences between memebers of the coalition that i personally never gave them any serious thoughts. This is echoed by Fatou matta Jahumpa when she said that colaition members hate each other more than they each hated the APRC. One has to understand the history to accept the realities. I understand the desire of Gambians abroad to change governmenet but i am not sure if Gambians in the Gambia want a change. Gambians twice put yaya in Office and i will stick my neck out that he will win again. What we need is credible people to move the masses to change their mind than to indulge in personal attacks which only strangthens the APRC and denies the opposition the unifiying base that is needed.
By the way you have a right to feel the way you do but i am experessing my rights in a democratic forum and hope you do not take my comments to heart.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Biraago
Gambia
173 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 00:01:18
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A word in our own language should not be a point of contention in any conversation. We have been using words in wolof, Hal-pulaar and other languages.
So i don't see why a word in mandinka should tantamount to tribalism. Can you come with a sceíentific reasoning.
Don't you think that our ability to communicate in a multiplicity of languages without having any cultural bias is one of the greatests gifts bequeathed to us from our ancestors.
Don't be sensitive, some of us have no drop of blod in us that can lead us in that horrible den of tribalism.
It is just the backward elements of our society who are suffering from that mental torture.
I don't belong to any so-called tribe and I hope you would accept this position of mine.
I exchange with you and others as one of the many spicies on this universe who should muster the ability to love and entertain and criticise each other in perfect harmony.
I feel that the parties that withdrew from NADD have betrayed the cause of the Gambian people as is enshrined in the NADD MOU and this i think i can say in any language that i could converse in. Not so?
I have maintained that our compatriots should have stayed and expose any person found wanting rather than withdrawing because an withdrwal would be seen bt many including myself, as a betrayal of what they have debated for months, signed and convinced us to accept as a minimum program of transformation.
So my brother, with all due respect, don't even think in those terms because it is one of the weapons of the retrogressive elements of our society.
Peace and harmony emenates from love and acceptance of each other as human beings not otherwise.
But thanks for being honest. |
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Biraago
Gambia
173 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 00:27:45
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My dear brother,
I would have understood if you had taken up the expression as a point of contention because it is an un-warranted vilification and should'nt be entertained in the future.
But regarding language which a part of culture, Hell no.''
I believe that culture is a neutral element of our society and dpes not belong to any person or group of people who may want to lay claim to any aspect of it, just like water, air or even the telephone.
I wont deny people calling themselves any cultural name, it's their right but i think and maintain that all languages are created and to be developed for the bebefit of the whole of mankind, period. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 01:41:25
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Biraago
I am not sure if you are a true democrat and your outburst of postings even before letting me respond to you is an indication of intolerance that is not synonymous with bantaba and a true democrat. You are playing the same card that you condemned other people for. May be it is an issue of a pot calling a kettle black.
I am not out for a confrontation and certainly has no time for. i am expressing my views and i which am really entitled to. I am not sure if you have the qualities to to absorb ctiricism in good faith.
I do not need rocket science to proof my case. The paragraphn below was from one of your postings to me and i am suprised that you have made a u turn.
"Anyhow, you like to give information to the readers but PLEASE, can you try to go beyond tribes? You are writting in english and I am sure you are acting in rituals and tradidion borrowed from many other societies both in the Gambia and otherwise."
You were responding to my posting on Fulani which makes me believe that you a Fulani. In fact i did apoligise even though i did not need to to accomodate your feelings. I was only explianing the seven types of fulani in the gambia which certainly was to educate one another. But to see you take a similar line makes me wonder if you really meant to give me a genuine advise which i took in good faith. Infact i have not seen Hal Pular or some other language used in a way you want to make be me believe. I think you need to tone down the rhetoric. You might not know me but i have always had an opinion and which i was never afraid to talk about. If you could use local languages and can speak many of them, i challenge you to use others to be seen as fair and balanced. How come all the bad words you have must be in mandinka and not in Fulani or some other language.
I would like you to show me any positive thinking local word you have used in mandinka. Every posting of use yours that you have used and is derogatory has to be for other people.
I am not Fulani but i was once a Gainako and drank a lot of Samba Hakundo. To call peolpe backward and retrogressive because they do not share your views makes me wonder if you can comfortably talk about good governamce in Africa and be capable of bringing positive change. It is not in the spirit of bantaba. Like i maintained before, we always blame our leaders but in reality, they are a reflection of the society that notured them.
I have always believed in fair play and was one of the founders of Amnesty International in the gambia. That society was formed under the trees as St Therese's Secondary school during the PPP regime. My records speak for themselves and have never sided with the oppressor.
We might change yaya but many yayas will be incarnated unless we develop a culture of tolerance that i am yet to see start. I hope you will still be able to join me at the table of brotherhood and drink from the cup filled with tolerance, knowledge,self crticism and good governance.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Biraago
Gambia
173 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 15:45:38
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I am sorry brother but you must be mistaken because never did I respond to any writting of yours regarding Fulani.
I stand by my statement that any person or group who use any part of the human culture, in this case a language for the sole purpose of gaining any kind of benefit that could deny other members of the human race the same benefit is commiting a retrogressive act.
I still maintain that culture is a neutral asset to be made use of by all and sundry. Noone should claim hegemony in a language or ritual.
If you want to place me into a particular culture or language group them you are committing a grave mistake because it is not my intrest.
I had to write twince, not for any other reason but bacase i was engaged in samething else while had not finished responding to your insender.
Sorry if my language sound confrontational. It is not the intention.
I just want to make myself very care and i don't like to beat about the bush i order to be appreciated.
Democracy and tolerance does not mean that we should engage in plesing each other at all times.
We need to be frank and open at all times so that there is nothing hidden when we claim to be working for the same purpose.
This does not mean that either one of us has the monopoly to the truth but through dialogue and these friendly but frank exchanges, we could find common ground.
I was on a srip to some european countries but I shall continue to contribute as much i could in the future.
If I did'nt find you a true debater, i would'nt respond to any of your postings.
But PLEASE, once more, don't be sensitive to this language issue.
We could discuss language but not in a bias way.
I surely could from the cup of justice with you at any time.
Why are you a Mandinka and Hal pulaar instead of being just a nice human being, what's wrong with that? (joke)
Why did you call our president a DURUMO? Why a Mandinka word?
Because the animal does not have the same name in the other languages even though could be similar in some.
After all, he is our president whether we love him or not.
We cannot take culture or a sub-culture like langauge to be a point of contention in the comon stryggle for peaceful development.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 19:11:34
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Biraago
I stand by my quotation. I want you to refer to your postings of March 13 2006 under the topic WHY SIR DAWDA AS MUSLIM WAS CALLED DAVID. You are in denial of your own postings. I donot know if i can believe you anymore if you can make 360 degrees u-turn. i hope your hoarding of the information regarding the inhabitants of banjul is not a calculated move for some unterior reasons.
I have never called Yaya a DURUMO. I think you are mistaken me for some other postings. I have always called him JUNKUNG. I may have different opinions with people but i have always maintained respect. Infact i put up a postings on the achievements of Yaya but i am yet to see your contribution. I have tried to be balanced. I have no personal grudgies against yaya but i believe that people in public office should be subjected to scrutinity period. Infact i said in that posting " give the devil its due". I think i had only one serious response.
We should not be negative all the time and should be prepared to accept and embrace people when they are right even though we may not share the same ideologies. That way we are able to build a culture of tolerance ( not patronage) and a just society for the benefit of all.
To call me tribalist is to fabricate a fallacy. I spoke my mind during the PPP days. We set up Amnesty International to speak against injustice. By then iwas in public service. The four core memebrs of amnesty are D. A Jawo, Musa Gassama ( then a magistrate), Dodou K. Jawneh and myself. We used to meet under the trees at St. Thereses Secondary school or sometimes in Da Jawo's car.
If you have followed the daily Observer in the early 1990s, there were pieces of contoversial articles written by Farangakay Kulung. I had somethings to do with them. This was during PPP regime. I have always stood against tyranny. I was one of the three ring leaders in the school strikes at Armitage High School in 1988 and we seized the ferry at Sankulay Kunda and denied Jawara access to Georgetown. We laid down on the hot tarmac and the soldiers including yaya then threatened to run us over if we did not give way. Armitage was so poor we were asked to bring mats from home to school because there were no tables in the classrooms or chairs. No beds and i have slept on the hard concrete floor many times. Sometimes food was not available and on some occassion the commissioner had to to give us food( corned beef) to keep our body and soul together. Waa Juwara was then the commissioner. We later realise that Waa had other ulterior motives beyond the scope of the bantaba and i am afraid it is personal to him and should stay as such.
If i were tribalist i would not do that. Infact i had family memebers who were in the cabinet then but, my loyalty was to the gambia and will always remain so.
I am not a coward and i want to hear about you achievements in defense of justice as you claim. i did not run away. i challenged the status quo since a child and still uphold those principles. May be you need to do your research about me. I have refused to play patronage and will never. i do not like to blow my own trumpet but i will refer you to Things Fall Apart why the Agama Lizard is always seen bragging when i falls from an Iroko tree. Maybe Jayanfara will help answer this. Some people call me Democracy at Armitage because i had always believed in it.
I have said it here many times that gambians voted for yaya twice and if we need to change government then we have be convincing enough to make peole change their minds and vote for our party and programmes. i believe in peacful change of government by the people at the polls. I have also said on this banataba that Yaya is perhaps better at convincing Gambians than those on the ground. Follow my postings and you will see them. I have always been fair and balanced
I do not sit behind computer screens like most people do. I stayed the course in the gambia. Infact Halifa stayed in our house in their NAAD vistits to United States. Brother i have invested in the Gambia in terms of energy and resources to build a just and equitable society at home and do not need to be reminded of my civic duties.
I have never been sypathetic to those who hold public office. They have to be subjected to the highest levels of scrutiny and democracy thrives on vigilance otherwise it will be suffocated. IF PUBLIC OFFICERS CANNOT TAKE THE HEAT, THEN THEY SHOULD GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
Edited by - kondorong on 21 Mar 2006 19:37:36 |
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sankahjang
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 22:25:29
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| Well done brother,keep up the good work. |
Edited by - sankahjang on 21 Mar 2006 22:26:07 |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 22:57:49
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i'm not sure how i feel about Halifa Sallah. my uncle was saying that its just a rumor his "enemies" came up with that he is a maxist-leninist. he said he knows him and the guy is honest and blah, blah, blah. i think at the end of the day, jammeh is not going to back down when the results are against him. i really can't see hime backing down. he's so stupid. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 23:03:05
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| He is an honest intellectual which many Gambians find hard to relate to. This is due to illetracy. He can be trusted with office of president. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 03:30:45
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| konderong, do you think jammeh will stay by force or do you actually think he will be willing to back down. cause i think if he will stay by force, nothing can be done about it since nothing is done about his behavior now. |
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bamba
Sweden
401 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 09:12:54
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Like Kondorong is saying, many Gambians dont know who to vote for due to illiteracy. Civic education in gambia has not gained momentum yet like in the west.
Yaya staying in power by force when defeated might have dire repercussions.
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Bamba |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 19:00:31
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i DONT THINK ANYTHING WILL HAPPEN IF yAYA DECIDES TO STAY BY FORCE. gAMBIANS ARE KNOWN TO BETRAY EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME AND CANNOT STAY TOGETHER THROUGH THICK AND THIN. WE SAW IT WITH PPP WHICH LED TO NCP, THE AFPRC, MOJA, UDP WHICH LED TO ADAM, NAAD WHICH IS NOW HISTORY ETC.
TELL ME ANY UNITED FRONT IN THE GAMBIA THAT STAYED TOGETHER FOR EVEN FIVE YEARS. 10 STUDENTS SHOT DEAD AND NOTHING HAPPENED, KORO CEESAY, DEDAY HYDARA, SILLAH, WAA(IMPRISONMENT), SINGLE NYASSSI......... I WILL STICK OUT MY NECK THAT GAMBIANS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF MUSTERING CHANGE BY THEMSELVES. THEY WANT SOME ONE TO DO IT FOR THEM AND WILL EASILY TAKE THE DIVINE ROUTE TO JUSTIFY THEIR STATE.
THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN BETRAYALS FOR PERSONAL GOOD |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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bamba
Sweden
401 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 19:42:22
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| Difficult to argue your points. |
Bamba |
Edited by - bamba on 22 Mar 2006 19:43:00 |
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taalibeh
Gambia
336 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 20:19:30
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You have hit the nail directly on the head kondorong. This is a gravely unfortunate circumstance. Look at what some of the online commentators are bragging about concerning the disintergration of NADD. I am sorry for using this adjective but that is how it looks like, atleast to me.
Even in the west here, that is what we are good at: betraying one and other. Reporting each other to the police.
I have a friend here in the Uk who had a council house and a council office informed him that a gambia female makes numerous calls to them reporting that the gay is no longer living in the UK, that the property should be confiscated. Why going this low against your fellow human beings.
I read in one of your postings, kondorong, where you mentioned that our current condition is reflective of our attitute. I cannot agree more with you.
The most important thing about this inpending elections is massively vote against yaya and then think about the next step. The days of self style perpectual head of state should be gone in our country. Without change other alternatives cannot be exploited and this impedes development. Voting against yaya is not about hating him but wishing to explore other choices. |
Taalibeh |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 20:25:28
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| AMEN |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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