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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 18:10:33
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| If this is a reliable testament it confirms what has always been speculated. It is very shocking and sad. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 18:25:11
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Nothing is further from the truth. For Jammeh to deny the incident tells a whole story. The UN needs to pay attention on Gambia before this Jammeh killings extends. He is now a regional killer. One time Jammeh was loud about African Unity but now quite mute about it. He is soaked in shame and guilt after so much blood on his gloves. |
Karamba |
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GambianPatriot
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 20:48:24
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This is my take on the issue...published initially on my blog @: http://gambi-a.blogspot.com/2007/08/big-baller-shot-caller.html
Nderry is living large. He got himself a $45 chair, a Walmart discounted cheap HP laptop and use one of the rooms in his apartment to show off his prowess as the leading Gambian online editor. All hail to the chief.... Can ya say baller?
On a more serious note, the Ghanaian murder case is a serious thing. The simple fact that 44 fellow Africans met their demise in our tiny country is a tragedy. The Ghanaian authorities should do all in their power to bring to justice those responsible for their brutal killings. To this end, they have done their investigations and an official statement hasn't been released as to who the culprits are. The Ghanaian press in the interim is running away with a story published by Nderry: sourced to a mysterious Sekouba Jadama at Banjul police headquarters. Nderry has on countless occassions been a sensational and unreliable journalist. The Ghanaian journalist writting these stories may not be aware of this little but very important factual nugget. In the meantime the image of our country is further drawn into the mud.
Nderry is wallowing in his new found fame. The Ghanaian press following the murder of their countrymen are quoting him ad naseum and he doesn't waste anytime pointing this out to anyone who will listen. Don't take my word for it...go to his crappy site and see for yourself.
On a personal note, I think the Ghanaians should put up or shut up. If they have evidence linking Yahya Jammeh to these murders, by all means get him, but running away with a story published in an anti- government website with a history of salacious reporting could come back to bite you when it is time to produce evidence. Will the real Sekouba Jadama stand up when push come to shove or will it be another phantom of nderry's imagination?
Human trafficking is a brutal trade. And by all accounts these Ghanaians are been trafficked into Europe using Gambian territory. Do we leave room to the possibility that traffickers could have a hand in their demise. This doesn't mean the authorities in the Gambia shouldn't investigate and relay their findings in a timely manner to their Ghanaian counterparts. However implicating Yahya Jammeh without any evidence (saved for Sekouba Jadama) could be a tricky issue when it comes to a court of law. Nderry will be well advise to seek legal counsel because as much as I detest his form of journalism, events could run their course into rough territories. |
http://gambi-a.blogspot.com |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 22:23:07
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Gambianpatriot.
Since you provided a link to your article, i checked your blog and in particular the topic: GHANAIAN MASSACRE of August 9, 2007.
You said the following "Source confidentiality is not a defense in a murder case".
How would you relate this to the trial of Saddam Hussein in which witnesses were hidden behind curtains under cross examination that no one could see their faces. Neither Saddam nor his attorneys could see the faces of witnesses testifying against him in a multiple murder trial.
I am not a law student but if that is possible in multiple muder cases, i beg your indulgence to help explain the legal frame work in which you made the above statement quoted above.
Please help me learn.
Once again the floor is all yours.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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GambianPatriot
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 14:56:42
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Kondorong,
You answered your own question. The witnesses were still produced albeit behind curtains because of the volatile security situation in Iraq. I am not a lawyer either and the Iraq scenario, like most things happening there are United States governments screwing up. If you think your friend can assert source confidentiality in the murder of 44 people, well I can't put out any legal framework to convince you otherwise. Salaam |
http://gambi-a.blogspot.com |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 16:28:38
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Gambiacompatriot and fellow Gambians,
Why do we seek to doubt about the killings. Up to now Yahya Jammeh is yet to come up with a credible explanation. We the 1.5 miilion citizens of Gambia are the OCCUPIERS and legal custodians of that piece of land on planet earth where the killings took place. We are responsible as a nation. Our Chief Custodian Honourable Alhajj Yahya Jammeh is liable for the killings unless he is able to present to the world the big fingers that triggered and sliced the lethal weapons to end the valuable lives of fellow humans, our Ghanaian brothers. Why is Alhajj Yahya not talking? He is big man in Gambia but not bigger in the African or global scale of power and influence. By him not answering to the these claims, he is staining all Gambians. Out of the 1.5 million citizens, I wish to declare my position that I am not with him on this unfortunate occasion. Let him carry his heavy, heavy load. (I Jah Man Levi)
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 16:42:46
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Elders,
Interesting trends with these killings. Interesting things to note about it. The magnitude of the crime committed left me suspended in thinking, as to:
Who did it?
What for?
What is the interest in doing it?
Why these fellows?
I found myself shivering at some of these revelations. I am of the true view that justice should be done. Lets put ourselves in the shoes of these Ghanians. It must be really hard to bear, honestly. |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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GambianPatriot
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 18:53:01
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Karamba,
I didn't say the killings didn't take place. I am not denying they happened. But unlike you I am not willing to put the blame on Yahya without proof. I abhor the guy (yahya), but I am not willing to convict him without his due process rights. That is what he does to our people and we called him a dictator...rightly so. However the dictum: two wrongs don't make a right should be exercise here. Ghana is a powerful country in our sub region. If they have evidence as to the culpability of Yahya in the murder of their citizens, they will take the appropriate action. But the notion that I will detest Yahya so much so that I will think he has a hand in these murders without evidence save for nderry and his source is not going to happen. That has been my only bone of contention in this saga. |
http://gambi-a.blogspot.com |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 19:18:10
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GambianPatriot,
I sincerely understand your bond of contention. It is unfortunate that Nderry some times blows the matter beyond reasonable proportion. I cannot stand to see Nderry pass judgment with sweeping inference. I am in line with you on that. The point I wish inviting your attention on is that Honourable Excellency Dr Yahya is the Chief steward of our tiny nation. We are already spending so much resources on DEFENCE and SECURITY (both controlled by Yahya) He is obliged to use the resources at hand to tell the nation, and the world at large something worth consuming. To keep this quiet about the matter is wrong. He is responsible until the full scale of his security aparatus yields the results to confirm the physical hands behind such crime against humanity (not just Ghanaians or fellow Africans.) Those killed are part of the greater family of man. There is something known by the few about this crime and it is just as good for public knowledge. If a more competent and fairer person was sitting as president of Gambia, it could not have taken this long to keep everyone in darkness. |
Karamba |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 14:05:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
GambianPatriot,
I sincerely understand your bond of contention. It is unfortunate that Nderry some times blows the matter beyond reasonable proportion. I cannot stand to see Nderry pass judgment with sweeping inference. I am in line with you on that. The point I wish inviting your attention on is that Honourable Excellency Dr Yahya is the Chief steward of our tiny nation. We are already spending so much resources on DEFENCE and SECURITY (both controlled by Yahya) He is obliged to use the resources at hand to tell the nation, and the world at large something worth consuming. To keep this quiet about the matter is wrong. He is responsible until the full scale of his security aparatus yields the results to confirm the physical hands behind such crime against humanity (not just Ghanaians or fellow Africans.) Those killed are part of the greater family of man. There is something known by the few about this crime and it is just as good for public knowledge. If a more competent and fairer person was sitting as president of Gambia, it could not have taken this long to keep everyone in darkness.
Karamba,
I did'nt want to join the debate on this topic,but I have the same opinion as Gambianpatriot. As he said we cannot accept what ever people write. There must be an evidence if they are sure that Yahya Jammeh did it or the Gambian army. I can smell a lot of America and Bush fooling the world with that Sadam has weapons of massdistruction and has bought plutonium from some African country.
I am with him also that the dead people were found withn the Gambia too. Who killed them?
It could be the Ghanians themselves. There could have been trouble withn the seamen themselves that resultad to the killings. |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 16:40:04
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| uncle alhasan ,we see things differently ,so believe what you want no problem . |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 19:12:23
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quote:
Originally posted by GambianPatriot
Kondorong,
You answered your own question. The witnesses were still produced albeit behind curtains because of the volatile security situation in Iraq. I am not a lawyer either and the Iraq scenario, like most things happening there are United States governments screwing up. If you think your friend can assert source confidentiality in the murder of 44 people, well I can't put out any legal framework to convince you otherwise. Salaam
I was quite reluctant to post to this topic for fear of being branded. May i remind you that i have said that i do not know Nderry, ever met him in person or spoken to him and had contact with him in any form.
Secondly, i join a debate to be convinced or to convince the other party. Of course i share your stance that every one is entitled to due process and that includes any one. It’s the courts that are competent to determine guilt or otherwise.
Please for goodness sake, I would love you not call me Nderry's friend. I believe in free speech and that includes your right to free speech as well.
The reason some are speculating about the whys and hows of these deaths is because information is being hard to come by. That is not a reason to accuse others unjustifiably. But there is a reason why even the smallest canoe has a captain. It’s the responsibilities of office and the believe that the buck stops somewhere. While he may not be responsible, he is accountable as our leader and silence does not help.
I am not a lawyer, but I find a witness behind a curtain to be of suspect in-terms of credibility. Yes I can understand security reasons, but would it not be comforting for me to be able to see the face of my accuser.
It very well looks like confidentiality seemed to have been applied in this case because the person behind the curtain could be a ghost. In the Nuremburg trials, where the charge sheet indicated deaths in the region of 6 million, witnesses stood in the open court to be seen.
So confidentiality can be an excuse in a murder trial depending on which side of history one is married to. In a democracy, rules can be amended as we saw in the amnesty given to officers and men during the AFPRC period for all known or unknown crimes that may have been committed either willing or unintentionally in the course of their duties. It covers even unjustifiable instructions. So even in the Gambia, confidentiality is an excuse. Its has been tried and tested not only once. If my memory serves me right, the amnesty was again extended to the April 10 incident. I may be wrong in this but it appears this was the case.
If we believe in social justice, every crime should at least be accounted for and then seek forgiveness from the people wronged or their families. This is where democracy has a disadvantage. Its majority will imposed on the minority but I still believe it is the only option. Sometimes two heads and not better than one. This is why we had far fewer Prophets per capita of the world population through out human evolution.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 19:33:10
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Kondorong,
I am with you on the scale of responsibility regarding this matter. The Highest Excellency Alhajj Doktorr Yahya is the chief responsible person in this crime. There are two levels of liability that can help us reason this case out. We have OCCUPIER'S LIABILITY. We also have VICARIOUS LIABILITY. These relevant legal instrument that when set in certain perspective leaves us resting the task on the broad back bones of of our higher excellency. He is paid by tax payers. He commands the weapons, the resources, and directs the secret police agents. All the information about even little migratory birds flying over Gambia's air space is captured and delivered to Yahya Jammeh at State House. It is incredible to imagine that information about a whole mass massacre of this maginitude is not within his vast array of security details.
See if the link below is of any help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_liability_(criminal) |
Karamba |
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BambaLaye
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 19:35:08
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I am amazed by some of the commentators' rantings on "evidence" before alleging that Jammeh has something to do with these killings. Is it so hard to understand that when foreign nationals are found dead (let's assume they were not murdered)in another country, it is the responsibility of that country (where the bodies are found)to expalain the circumstances/cause else held responsible. To heck with Pa Nderry's "breaking news" and whoever relies on it.
In this particular case, YAYA JAMMEH as head-of-state, defense minister, commander in chief, dictator, etc. etc. has the responsibility to investigate, collect evidence and report his findings to the Ghanian authorities. If Yaya (Gambia) decides to ignore this responsibility, all accusing fingers will inevitably point to him (and Gambia)until proven otherwise.
Yaya has not only ignored his responsibility in investigating the matter, he has according to reports, instead actively stiffled efforts by Ghanaian authorities to find out the truth. What would a rational mind deduce from such action???
Please, let us not be too smart to make a fool of ourselves. Jammeh's irratinality is going to cost us dearly if nit curbed as soon as possible. I am amazed, baffled and discouraged by the way we see such simple matters sometimes. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 19:38:29
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Karamba
You definitely live up to your name. karamba means learned person. You certainly do not have a short circuit in your brain. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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