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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 12:03:57
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| Janko , if the answer to question one is on post 115 could you lift it for us ? For question number two you have not provided the meaning of Camara ( instead you are talking about a taano).Besides you do not seem to understand the question at all. Njucks provides a better answer to this question in his post above , that is why I intends to return to his post later. But I thank you for admitting that you do not know the answers to questions 3 and 4. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 12:58:17
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Janko , if the answer to question one is on post 115 could you lift it for us ? For question number two you have not provided the meaning of Camara ( instead you are talking about a taano).Besides you do not seem to understand the question at all. Njucks provides a better answer to this question in his post above , that is why I intends to return to his post later. But I thank you for admitting that you do not know the answers to questions 3 and 4.
I expect contributors to be familiar with the content of the post they are taking part. Your question as to the meaning of K/Camara is answered in post 115.
I am admitting that the K/Camaras did exist in the empire of Mali long before 1418, that they could not have gotten their name from "Câmara de Lobos" (1419). I brought in the totem aspect because the above name is associated with “sea lions found in a cave there”.
I may have misunderstood the question, if you have an answer, I would be more than pleased to learn from it.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 13:18:41
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| Could you elaborate where and when Camara existed in the Mali empire ? Just a brief history of Camaras in the Mali empire. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 20 Aug 2007 13:19:25 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 16:07:52
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Njucks: You made a very intelligent post. I agree with you. I will come back to your posts after Momodou , Janko and others respond to my questions. Thank you.
Don’t you think is better to make your comeback, than repeating questions already been dealt with, I think so. The first post on page 8 of this discussion by Momodou has hinted a reference to your question. A good start then we see where we head next. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 16:37:35
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kay , in as much as i would like to see our camara brothers sweat it out in declaring themselves african true and true ,it has been explain beyoung reasonable doubt that CAMARA is african in its purest form. the last name existed way before any european landed on us by mistake or by plan .
janko ,you have made your self very clear . |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 16:50:24
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The K/Camaras in space and time
Sundiata was not an absolute monarch, despite what the title implies. Though he probably wielded popular authority, the Mali Empire was reportedly run like a federation, with each tribe having a chief representative at the court. The first tribes were Mandinka clans of Traore, Kamara, Koroma, Konde, and of course Keita. The Gbara of Great Assembly was in charge of checking the Mansa's power, enforcing his edicts among their people, and selecting the successor (usually the Mansa's son, brother or sister's son). Sundiata Keita died in 1255,/---/
And so on and so fort....
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 23:29:15
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Okay good clarifications by Janko and Santafara , and thanks for that. Now the question in my mind remains this: How did the Portuguese derive "Camara de Lobos" after sea lions from the Camaras of West Africa? Since the Portuguese did not reach the interior of West Africa (they were limited to the coastal areas), is it possible then that Portuguese Camara developed along an independent line from West African Camaras ?
This possibility of two lines of Camaras , one of West Africans and the other by the Portuguese is what makes Njucks argument very sensible to me.Please refer to Njucks above.
You can excuse that I may not have read all your posts from the beginning of this topic in case i raise a question that might have been addressed elsewhere.I am aware that it could be unpopular to take a position away from an afrocentrist perspective , but our theories of history must be based on clarity and objectivity. It is out of this context that I have many questions concerning this topic. It is not to deny the noble Camaras their position in world history. Your answers are very informative and very appreciated. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 00:12:07
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Kayjatta
An Afrocentric perspective?
I find it very interesting that you did not only refer this discuss as afrocentric (cliché) but also lacking clarity and objectivity. Which in itself seems more stereotypical than objective, but do you bear with me that history is no exact science rather very subjective?
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 11:01:14
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| Yes you guys seem to think that Africa is the "center of the universe" , otherwise what makes it so hard for you to recognize that Portuguese Camaras could have developed along a line separate from the Camaras in West Africa ? |
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Momodou
Denmark
11604 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 12:41:16
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Kay, Old Mali is said to be a confederation of twelve provinces one of which was ruled by the Camaras (Source: Sundiata an epic of old Mali by D. T. Niane). This was more than 200 years before the Portuguese had contact with West Africa. That’s the reason for my assumption that the Portuguese got the Camara from West Africa, but yes it could as well be a coincidence that the both the West African and Portuguese surnames just sound similar.
Is there any explanation how Câmara became Camara? |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 12:46:47
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| Thanks Momodou. We are exploring different possibilities, hence my alternative theory. But I am no historian . |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 13:09:41
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Kayjatta
How would you fell by being called a Eurocentrist, are you?
The topic of this post is; GAMBIAN TRADITIONAL FAMILY NAMES
Actually, your postings on this topic have been more egotistical than substantive, why
1) You are not reading the posts and yet have opinion
2) You ask questions rather than giving your own explanation
3) You stigmatised the whole discussion as being afrocentric and yet you are the only one who did not elaborate your stance
Your egotism became total when you could not even notice the difference Njucks pointed at “Camara/kamara and Câmara”.
You are free to start a new post; PORTUGUESE FAMILY NAMES.
I am more than ready to take part if you are less egotistical and more receptive.
Why are you resorting to stereotypification and not putting your point forward?
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 20:27:50
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Yes you guys seem to think that Africa is the "center of the universe" ,
 . i think its fair to say that the Bantaba is a bit bias towards Africa.
i have seen several articles that claim that the word ''Banana '' is a wollof word that found its way into portugese then english and now almost every language in the world!!!!
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 21:20:53
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I found these two family names on a Kora CD;Cordes AnciennesBy: Sidiki Diabaté, Batourou Sékou Kouyaté, Djelimady Sissoko, N'Fa Diabaté.
Diabaté/Jobateh= nobody can refuse you anything
Kouyaté/Kuyateh= there is a secret between you and me
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 00:13:35
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| hmm ,going by the way the words are pronounce ,i beg to defer with there meanings but for now i cannot make up my mine as to the correct mandinka dialectical meaning of the words. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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