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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 14:05:16
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Santanfara,
I know that we do say Khan Jallow. Jerri in Wollof means to coolsomething that is hot ie Porrage or tea or the land where there are not many trees or Savannah. Så pulo Jerri can meanthe poul from the Savannah. |
Edited by - Alhassan on 06 Sep 2007 14:42:15 |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 16:13:11
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Kobo,
You should not get angered because others have other versions of our history. I have never said here that I am an authority. I am in constant contact with people who know our oral history more than me. Njucks history is based after the European contact and mine is before the European contact. What is the problem? Sometimes I wonder if you want to debate or you just would inpose words on us. I have difficulties in understanding you and Njucks most of the time. Because we disagree politically does not mean that we must disagree on everything. I would refer you again to Seikh Anta Diop. Do you have problems in accepting that too?
lastely neighter you not Njucks is an authority on our oral history.
People like you will cause many to refrain from debating here. I would realy like you to post some sensible things. Your postings are not sensible at all sometimes. Try to be modest.
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Edited by - Alhassan on 06 Sep 2007 16:20:33 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 18:22:17
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Alhasan you are always argumentative and I don't understand why You have forwarded your opinions but don't impose it as AUTHORITATIVE unless you exposed the SOURCE FOR VERIFICATION AND REFERENCE. Just mentioning Cheikh Anta D'iope is not enough and other oral historians. The essence of this topic is for us to interact, COMPILE and gather the FACTS and not about POLITICS, am afraid
This is very important for RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT to put us out of this nightmare of not understanding our ORIGINS, CULTURAL HERITAGE AND TADITIONAL VALUES. We need something MEANINGFUL ON THIS EXERCISE and lets avoid certain expressions against each other; i.e. manifestation of our emotions and personalise the issues and tendency to DIVERT FROM THE IMPORTANT ISSUES. We need independent SOURCES but not relying exclusively on your knowledge that you take pride with!
Lets be balanced and fair rather than modest Stop any further arguments and provide more information that you want to share with us on this topic please 
Thanks! |
Edited by - kobo on 06 Sep 2007 18:46:14 |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 23:08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Lets be balanced and fair rather than modest Stop any further arguments and provide more information that you want to share with us on this topic please
Thanks!
Alhassan, i was just trying to remind you to be consistent. FACTS are important and dates are very easy to verify.History did not start in 1965, not before colonialism or the Mali Empire, Jollof etc.
Do you know how many books are on World War II, which happened during the age of cameras etc.same battle written by englishmen, frenchmen or germans. yet the basic facts remain.
you have made valuable contributions but everyone has a right to put the pieces together.
There is also a language problem. Most of the written material on Senegambian/Mali Guinea history was written by senegalese guineans like Shiekh Anta Diop, T.N Niane etc. and we rely a lot on them. For example even Sundiata's(french) name has made it into english as Sundiata when it should be Sunjata. You will hear people pronounce his name as Sun-Diya-ta Keita, which is wrong.its simply Sun-jata. Jatta in english is Diatta in French. just like Joof is Diouf or Kandia is Kanja! This can lead to wrong intepretations or conclusions.
Take the jali Balla Faseke Kouyate. Faseke is spelt in french. but as Sisay rightly said earlier, his name is from three things. Balla (balafon), Faseke (his muscles were severed) and koyateh (secret b/w us). Faseke is from the Faso (muscles, here specifically the achilles so he couldnt walk away) and probably not "you make the wood talk" (bala fa se ko).
so you see how simple things like language can lead to different conclusions, but we all inteprete differently and learn. now imagine if it was written from bambara or jahanka and has different meaning altogether. Another example is the word Wollof (french), its not english because you cannot say Wall-of. but we who write in english use it in anycase but dont you agree we should be writing Ollof!
This topic is about surnames and as they say in Ollof surnames have no home. the rebel leader in Casamance was called Diamacoun (jamankon) Senghore and he was not a serer.period. Sundiata Keita, Sunjata's own father's surname was Konateh. Keita as you know just means to inherit. guess how many people are passing by with that as a surname
we can investigate and try and findout but not ignore facts.Marvin Gaye's ancestors are definitely from W. Africa (Fact) but his Gaye has nothing to do with Gayes from The Gambia or Senegal. We also made this mistake with Camara Portugal.
so Tchena,lets not make it personal, i'll like to learn more from you.
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sisay
48 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 06:09:00
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| Some people asked me in this topic to write something on the origin of the drum. You can find my post here. It relates to Maysa Wali Jon. What can you tell me about the meaning and origin of this name? |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 16:00:59
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Very long interesting debate but i hope we are still searching the solution of bro. Santa questions and not stabilising our own family names. sorry if i may misunderstand one wrongly but some of the Q&A has nothing to do with the real roots of this topic, I mean this is not a new that we flips some topic on different directions but this time semis to be that the loads is heavy than it self .
to say the mater of the fact over myself that am Camara and I DO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE REAL MEANING OF MY NAME cos of many horizontally meaning as on this topic is and am not filling in an singly ways(is it a news?) i bet not as i first point on the beginning of this topic that we are just like doomed son in the desert. |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 11:46:50
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mbay ,now that you are back ,can we have more sarahuleh family names .this topic will go on and on. yes some time we may have drums and cora history coming in but the main theme will remain .
kut tora sunteh ,mama taah . |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 00:13:40
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my earlier explanation of the family name JABBI was challenge today by one of my GASSAMA KUNDA friend who was in my house today.
JABBI AND GASSAMA are sister family names. jabbi gassama
he narrated that jabbi was a name of man call jarberr .this man they claim have great offsprings .so people use the arabic words for sky to reffer to his childern thus GASSAMA. assama ahye is sky in arabic .the mistranslation made into gassama .''your childern are as great as a sky '' .jabbi is jarberr .
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 10:35:58
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
This is very important for RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT to put us out of this nightmare of not understanding our ORIGINS, CULTURAL HERITAGE AND TADITIONAL VALUES...................
if you are puzzled about African names, here is a good link about names in Southern Africa. i thought i posted earlier?
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/30/news/journal.php
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 07:48:41
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| interesting njucks .i am doing some more research .insahallah in over a months time i will come up with some more family names meaning. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 11:53:54
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why is that the jalis don't ask gift from the SAHO KUNDA families ? kondo do you have any idea ? i heard that when you tell a jaliba that i saho he doesn't demand from you .is this true.because it can be an a polite way to refuse to hand out gift.
also why is the family name CHAM associated with DEMBA .like chamdemba .i believe that cham is more wolof than other tribes.i may be wrong.my neibours in sukuta are mostly CHAM and they are mandinkas. is cham more wolof than mandinka or both?.or is it actually serere ? |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 22:17:51
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Santa,
I will try to share my knowledge about the issues raised. I got them from listening to programmes esp from Sud FM Radio Banjul by historians like Alh Sait Camara. According to Alh Sait, the Chams of Sukuta originally came from Fouta in Senegal and they were related to former GPA MD Pa Cham. Cham demba, the demba is a compliment. Like Saidy is. Saidyleigh, SaidyKhan, etc.
Cham cuts across most ethic groups such as wolof, Mandinka, Fulas and Serrers. They are predominantly blacksmiths of origin.
Finally , the Sahos i know are Jalis anyway. But like the Kantehs they are said to be Jalis who do not 'beg'. The history behind that i dnt know.
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 08:13:25
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| thanks madi.i may have mistaken kanteh for saho.good clarification. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 08:16:16
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now madi if you are still arround. is saidy purely fula toranka or otherwise ? again is leigh connected to fulas as well.like baba leigh .and as for khan ,it seems to be a widely use family name even in pakistan and india khan is use.
is khan fula as well ? |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 10:58:08
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Santa,
I can say that. This is because most if not all torankas originally came from Fouta Toro in Senegal or Massinah in Mali. The saidy must have been mistakenly taken for the surname on thier arrival in The Gambia in predominanatly Mandinka setup. That's in the Jarras and Kiangs.The surnames Taal, Leigh or Ly, Khan, Wone or wan are pure toranka surnames or as they are now called in Seengal Torobeh or torodo. If you go to Fouta where i have been, all these surnames are present and if you do good or well they will pamper you or compliment by adding the prefix Saidy before your surname, be it Jallow , or Khan which in Futa are the same, ly , Bah,sowe etc.
In the Jarras there are SaidyLeigh where the legendary Lamin Leigh originated, but i maybe wrong but the rest of his family carry the complete surname SaidyLeigh. There are as well SaidyKhan, SaidyWan(remember there was a politician in Jarra) and Saidybah. The Radio Gambia Journalist Lamin Saidybah is fula-speaking. I have met people in Soma who were saidybah but understand little or no fula, however they will quickly jump and tell you are fulas then but now we are mandinka.
I have seen Balantas Saidy anyway. But that could have been in the case wen they were islamised the adopted the 'master' surname. Thats not a new phenomenon, because there are Njie, Fofana, Ceesay Manjagoes.
Finally having Khan in India/Pakistan as surname, could have been a colonial accident. The brits were spelling our names and surnames as they could possibly pronounce. The late Kekoto Manneh has tried to revolutionize the re-spelling of our names and surnames when he was at Crabb Island. He used to write Fatty as Faati, Manneh as Maane, saikou as Seeku. Barry and Barrow are common Toubab names especially her in the UK. And we know those are Fula and Mandinka/Toucoulor surnames.
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