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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 00:05:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
Trial resumes of Ex-President of Zambia, Frederick Chiluba. He too was popular at some point in time. He talked big just like all failing African presidents. Like others, he now dances to the tune of his creation.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E64ABC8C-7857-4CE4-AFE9-FFEDBEFA3698.htm
things that we do will live after us but that was then karamba. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 13:35:24
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Santanfara,
What do you consider the most severe burning issues requiring urgent treatment in the early days of Jammeh's trial? Why do you think Jammeh was quick enough to provide indemnity for crimes he is guilty of even before committing them? As at now, Jammeh is exempted from answering to crimes he commits. Going by that, if Jammeh comes to admit he ordered the many killings including the students, Deyda, Koro, and lot more, he remains a free man. That is how serious Gambians need to consider why a president preferred a thick shield of indemnity for grave crimes he commits. Does Jammeh deserve to be trusted by Gambians ? Why did Jammeh first thought about committing crimes and built in the constitution gateways for his exit? Can anyone deny that these crimes we live with today were long conceived? |
Karamba |
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bread man
300 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 19:58:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
Santanfara,
What do you consider the most severe burning issues requiring urgent treatment in the early days of Jammeh's trial? Why do you think Jammeh was quick enough to provide indemnity for crimes he is guilty of even before committing them? As at now, Jammeh is exempted from answering to crimes he commits. Going by that, if Jammeh comes to admit he ordered the many killings including the students, Deyda, Koro, and lot more, he remains a free man. That is how serious Gambians need to consider why a president preferred a thick shield of indemnity for grave crimes he commits. Does Jammeh deserve to be trusted by Gambians ? Why did Jammeh first thought about committing crimes and built in the constitution gateways for his exit? Can anyone deny that these crimes we live with today were long conceived?
Will you stop Brotherman, jammeh will not come to that level and even if he does, he will be imdemnified. Jammeh has the development of The Gambia at heart and even though his methods of seeking it might be a little questionable to others, he is doing fine. And secondly, stop saying that he ordered the murder of people, I really hope Jammeh himself can come forward and clear that matter. I know the lost of those valuable lives is a very sorry event but pinning everything on him will not solve it. We rather advocate continuosly for justice to one day take its course. |
It is the mark of intelligence to entertain an idea without accepting it. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 20:53:54
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Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 02 Jun 2007 21:10:23 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 21:08:13
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Breadman,
May be not so soon to come, but Jammeh's end is surely coming. Charles Taylor, Saddam, Samuel Doe, Idi Amin, Mobutu, and many others commanded higher influence and mightiier gun power than Jammeh does. They too like Jammeh enjoyed a circle of friends and sympathisers. When their time came up, that was it. It is only the power of Almighty Allah that is infinite. Did you read from a Gambian site recently where Sana Sabally equates himself to a prophet on exile? Who would have told Sabally that his days had an end? The minutes, hours, days, and months Sabally brutalised Gambians are now history. To minimise the pain Jammeh may likely face, it is time he goes reasonable with people. The way he is going about things is out of the way. You are quite at liberty to stand by Jammeh as one of his rare LOYALIST. That does not mean Jammeh is capable of commanding the forces of HISTORY. These are not my crazy wishes. It is just the way history prevails. Charles Taylor had bags of raw cash but was finally caught helpless. Saddam was a BANK by himself but caught in a hole as hiding from persecution. He could not escape. He was later killed by hanging. He had his two sons killed on one day. Today Iraq is what it is because Saddam refused to pay heed at a time he was drunk with power and false confidence. It is that situation Gambians do not want for a country so small and so less fortunate with rich resources like Iraq. The longer Jammeh continues the way he does, that has the potential to yield more damaging results for Gambia as a country. Even you Bread Man will stand as one of those unhappy Gambians when the tides turn rough enough. Bread Man, this is no wild wish. It is the truth. There is a limit to everything. Going beyond limit can be risky business. If things turn around and you find yourself on the hot plaform others are on today, you will bite them on their flesh for not being reasonable and sensitive. The more you sit there fighting to cover up Jammeh, the more you are exposing him. Jammeh is accessing the Internet daily. At least his secret network of informers are on the net. Let them come up with the true information about all the killings. Until such time that the full details are blown up, it rests on the flat head of Commander Jammeh. If because of guilt and lack of care for Gambians Jammeh continues to avoid facing this situation, that is a story by itself. Did Jammeh ever say it was not him that ordered the killings in question? If you have such information, please provide reference. Jammeh avoids mention of names like, Koro Ceesay, Deyda Hydara, November 11 slain soldiers, April 10-11 murdered students, and recently Daba Marenah and co. Why do you think a man of Jammeh's bravery and gun power caliber is not bold enough to tell his side of the story? |
Karamba |
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bread man
300 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 22:06:37
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| Wow Brotherman, you are really dedicated to ousting this man, however history also has people who were accused of similar attrocities but were never proven to be guilty or traumatised as you wish Jammeh would be. Comparing Jammeh to those devil like people is a real blow towards your democratic credence. I say that because Jammeh has no similarity to those people in national development. You seem to forget what Jammeh stands for, and that he is a soldier and you know what soldiers are trained for, but he said he is a soldier with a difference my brother. (With a difference). Now do you know what that difference is?? Of cos you donīt, but I know and because of that I stand by him untill he is proven to be a murderer as you said, only then I will relinguish my support for him. Now what site are Sanna comparing himself with exile prophets. |
It is the mark of intelligence to entertain an idea without accepting it. |
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Karl
136 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 22:51:22
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For me, analysing Jammeh's methods since day one to this present moment has been a case study. And without a doubt, Jammeh already booked his place in the chambers of justice like all the others Karamba mentioned, Sadam, Taylor, Mabutu,Doe and Idi Amin who i regard as Jammeh's outside twin. Jammeh's personal history in power, behavour and method of rule in all aspects resembles the ways and means those evil dictators systematically applied during their reigns. As citizens and friends of The Gambia, we all love the concept of nation building. But how can we? When Jammeh's regime continues generating support through fear and intimidation forcing those surbodanates to subdue to the him and his party, without a say in the process. The lifes of those killed and tortured speaks for itself, the man is power hungry and wanted to use every mean to clinch on to it, this is what dictators do and since seizing power in the Gambia, president jammeh helped himself through the way like all other tyranical heads of state. Take my words, whether next week, next year or years to come the man is going to end like Mabutu, Amin, Doe, Taylor etc. History always tells us what happened yesterday, lets all hope and pray to witness jammeh's day as well.
Peace |
"People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own destruction, and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a monster" J Baldwin |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2007 : 23:10:38
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karamba and karl , the gambia being a poor country is causing lots of brothers to be very complacent about the crimes that yaya is commiting dayly. he rule the land and its people ,so who should be responsible for state sponsored crimes ?
may be mr bread man did not venture into iraqi territory ,if you do ,my friend you will see first hand oil money .i mean development that saddam has accomplished .but with all saddam's development of iraq ,he also presided over countless murders and silly persecutions. why ? stupity .yahya's mentor Gadafy has develop the desert lands of libya like a non-desert country but yet he is suffocating libyans .he went as far change the words of the quran .this is what dictators do .self glory and perpetuation .cover under the guise of development. go to the gulf country's and see petrol dollar . yahya is doing jack**** .ofcourse we are poor as a nation but we deserve respect. do you really look carefully at yahya's mannerism mr bread man ? this man occassionaly insult the whole country without having a qualm .yet you say development .this make me sick .anyway you are entitle to your intelligent opinion ,who am i to question that. but please travel to dictor riden countries ,you will know what many are talking about.
may the peace from God decend in the gambia .amen |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2007 : 00:42:53
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Bread Man,
You need reading back what Karl and Santanfara wrote. You have me wrong when you claimed I want to see Jammeh under bad light. It is not me putting Jammeh under the limelight. What he is doing is being seen by the world. It will cost all of you supporters, valuable time, intelligence, emotional energy, and all the power of persuasion. If Jammeh was doing right, he needed no Bread Man to sell that good. He needed not posing as AIDS HEALER, African Peace Broker, Youth Merry Maker, Kanilai Population Builder, and lot of other image building ventures. Development, Development!! Please refer to Santanfara's posting in regards to Saddam (Iraq), and Ghaddafi (Libya.) You know there are more examples. In very short and simple statement, Jammeh has all the characteristics of dictators that tried and failed like he is doing. Jerry Rawlings landed in Banjul to warn Jammeh about his (Rawling's) mistakes. That was meant to drive sense in Jammeh. Unfortunately the message did not stick. Jammeh is already doomed. He knows that more than you think. This type of cheap propaganda that has been going around since July 1994 is already an expired trick. How do you expect Jammeh exposing what he thought he was awaking Gambians about the past regime, and now wanting the population not to make sense of what he is doing openly? What do you call all these, Bread Man. When Sana Sabally assumed the title of Vice Chairman (Vice President) after the infamous July 22 coup, he was blinded to see the objective reality of history in motion. Today, he wishes Gambians jump on Jammeh and tear him into pieces. That is not a Gambian way. The course of time will blow Jammeh out as coton stuff. It is not the wish of Gambians to see Jammeh face what he is creating for himself. But, nobody has power to stop him facing the results of his present doings. Neither you, nor Chairman Jammeh himself can handle that. These are sober reflections of reality. Keep these words safe and when Jammeh blows himself up, all you do is to recall and not to be worried. It looks funny when some of you still sit there and comfort yourselves that time is not moving. If there was a way of reversing the motion of time we would have all been babies several times to enjoy the atmosphere of total innocence. It is because of progress that we have reached where we are and no mental manipulation is enough to stop the wheel rolling. Let us look at the COUNTRY and not bigger and smaller men and women on transit as president, chairman, leader, head of state, etc. It is time you build a defence case file. You will be surprised how much evidence is compiled in chronogical sequence. A lot of such evidence is provided by Jammeh himself while being filmed by the radio and television that patronises him daily. Can you connect the dots? It may seem nothing to you today but keen observers have been on the job. |
Karamba |
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bread man
300 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2007 : 01:21:11
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| Well done Karamba, you are doing well, are you sure you are not one of those that were in the inner circle of july 94?. Anyway life is more than just pointing fingers at leaders especially when you are sitting in the comfort of your living room with a wide screen tv and a lot of certificates. One thing i know is that no matter what you said and keep saying, Jammeh is still the elected president covered by constitutional rights to protect and serve the nation. So if he does that within his own policy, then thats what he is employed for. Jammeh is not a dreamer and he knows what power means. The only place I see jammeh practice his excecutive powers is the sackings. The murders are criminal acts and I do not want to attribute my head of state to any criminal acts. I hope you can understand that. |
It is the mark of intelligence to entertain an idea without accepting it. |
Edited by - bread man on 03 Jun 2007 23:52:15 |
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Karl
136 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2007 : 03:49:30
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Bred man,
In my opinion, contrary to yours, eventhough jammeh is elected his attitude and tune as president has regimented in all forms that of a brutal dictator. He is fundamentally violating the very process that grant him the title as elected president. The constitutional right you're talking about that gave him the right to protect and serve the nation is the very one that obligared him to safeguard the rights of all citizens including those killed and tortured under his reign. If he is totally innocent of these crimes and many other onslaughts against us, then let his government prove to us why no one is still brought to books for all these atrosities. Remember, the constitutional right that covered him as president covers us all as citizens, these rights are just like a double-edge sword, it can work for or work against any one protecting or serving the nation. Some people understand this but must people don't. For you, through your postings and contributions, regardless what you are failing to accept, i personally view you as some one with potentials to understand these facts in many sense. My brothers and sisters let no one fool you, Jammeh's character is self-absorption and he is taking advantage of us, because we are Gambians, "peace loving people" and for ever we'll remain peaceful but need to stand firm and free ourselves.
However, this is bantaba and Malcom x said it all " it is a mark of intelligence to entertain an idea without accepting it." Bred man, you know where i got that from! Unfortunately, some of the ideas and priciples from Jammeh and his supports are too risky to entertain if we regard ourselves intelligent enough inorder to avoid a major setback in the future. We have to be bold and possitive to confront the reality and speak out not for our personal gains but for the collective interest now and forever against these self-style leaders and their justifications to rule us with iron fist. Enough is enough!!!! Please don't let anything hold you back, lets stop saying yes but!!!
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"People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own destruction, and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a monster" J Baldwin |
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Dembish
Gambia
284 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2007 : 12:38:06
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| well said Karl, indeed from me presonally you deserved a diamond medal.I would accept that this is one of the must interesting debete ever.But hence its two ways, let hand the mic over the opposite end,Sister O what have got to add on or breadman what will your respond to karl be? |
There is no egg without a chicken, and no chicken without egg. |
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bread man
300 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 00:03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Dembish
well said Karl, indeed from me presonally you deserved a diamond medal.I would accept that this is one of the must interesting debete ever.But hence its two ways, let hand the mic over the opposite end,Sister O what have got to add on or breadman what will your respond to karl be?
My reply to Karl is that it is his democratic right to view out his opinion, however that doesnot mean it will represent all as it does to you. Being articulate about a fact you believe in is not all we need now. We also need to balance those facts by maturely debating and again agreeing about at least one fact, ie love for country. All of Jammehīs critics here are not fair to politics. Cos if you critisize you must be able to justify it. If I do well at even one point, you should put a rose on my chest. But the critic here means that Jammeh never did good. Now is that possibe in your world? Well itīs not in mine. |
It is the mark of intelligence to entertain an idea without accepting it. |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 10:46:37
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Mr Charles Taylor is due to go on trial in The Hague.
But will this changes some better way of politics i bit no because this reflexion will still move on through backside of the mirror.
our politicians are earning more compared with their counter parts in the developed world even tough we are poor by all the four sides of living that will not changes their favourites attitude.
Here in Germany the G8 summit is on the way and demonstration is on high level , even yesterday the first one was on the air in almost every broadcasting stations fighting for us, but are we fighting for our self ?.
Am some times confused to the points of thinking if we are riped of a politics that is expedient for all of us which is assured difficult to find even the so called mother of democrats world.
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