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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
 Posted - 03 May 2007 : 17:20:23
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Why is it that some of us are afraid of Islam. And why is it that we often confuse adopting an islamic system of government with forcing people to embrace islam when the Allah says in the Quran "la ikra ha fi deen" (there is no compulsion in religion). When people of other faiths lived in the islamic khalifate they had more rights, than muslims living in the countries of other faiths. History backs this fact. Muslims have traditionally being tolerant and respectful to people living in their midst under an islamic system.
We conveniently forget that the people who introduced democracy to the gambia come from a Judeo-Christian background. 90 percent of the population in gambia is muslim, why cant gambians have the choice of an open debate to self determination.
China is not democratic, but they are the power house when it comes to the world economics today, and you wonder why? China knows what is suitable to its society and we instead are blindly following the west.
Kayjatta, I am sure you will agree with me that Jammeh was democratically elected twice by the Gambian people. Yes, he first came to power via a coup. A coup that the overwhelming majority of the Gambia people supported. People literally begged him to run as a civilian and all know what the results are. You can apply any logic you want, but the fact remains that the defacto democratically elected president is a tyrant we all voted for and now detest.
Jawara ruled from independence to 1994 (29 years) and Jammeh was elected president since 1996 (11 years). According to my maths that equals 40 years. The fact of the matter is that we dont know where we are headed...it has all along being a roller coaster ride of empty promises.
We need to reform and usher in a polictical system that is backed by the culture, morals, and religious convictions of the majority of the Gambian people. In short we need an islamic system. We need to a way of life ordain by Allah. There is social, political and economic justice in islam. There is freedom, liberty and robust system of development in Islam.
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mansasulu, your contributions seems a little contradictory or should I say double standard. You seems to be dismissing democracy as a foreign system, but embrace Islam which is another foreign system. In fact history teaches us that democracy in its basic format has been with us from time memorial. Our society has practiced some form of democracy for several years. It is just that when the word democracy is mentioned, many equates it to a western ideology. Is it because it simply works best for them or what?
As Karamba said, a good system does not belong to anyone. It may have been originated or pioneered by someone but it does not necessarily belong to them. Why do we continue to blame the west and their institutions for the failures in our societies?
Another question is that under an Islamic system of government what economic strategies would you institute that would address the needs of our people? You seems to confuse between having a regious state versus economic policies and procedures. Would you tell me then that we need to get rid of our system of education and institute an Islamic system of education? How extreme do you think that would be and how far can that set us back?
I don't think anyone is against the faith itself, but if you are so dismissive of democracy, can you give us an example of an Islamic system in the world that has worked so well and that addresses fundamental needs of its people. Certainly the middle east where Islam originates does not present a good example. So am not sure where you are heading with this Islamic system of government. It is one thing to embrace practice the teachings of the almighty but another to impose it on people. What say you???
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 17:41:04
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Mansasulu,
Islam is about RELIGION. Democracy is about POLITICS system and process. In the purest form of it, DEMOCRACY permits freedom in the choice of religion. The very Islam you are advocating is not PROPEPRLY practised in Gambia. Yes, figures have it that Gambia is 90% Muslim. If the statistics is critically reviewed, far less than 25% of Gambians are PROPER Muslims. If the claim of being Muslim was paying so much dividend in Gambia, Muslim religious opinion holders would have addressed the eratic conduct of Jammeh and his gang. In the face of all the 90% Muslims in Gambia, not one is daring enough to take shield of Islam and to face the challenge of addressing the many UN-ISLAMIC conducts of Jammeh. In short, Gambia is not fully baked for an all-Islamic political system. True Muslims are very few in Gambia. The rest are just names. |
Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 03 May 2007 18:00:07 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 17:41:04
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Mansasulu,
Islam is about RELIGION. Democracy is about POLITICS system and process. In the purest form of it, DEMOCRACY permits freedom in the choice of religion. The very Islam you are advocating is not PROPEPRLY practised in Gambia. Yes, figures have it that Gambia is 90% Muslim. If the statistics is critically reviewed, far less than 25% of Gambians are PROPER Muslims. If the claim of being Muslim was paying so much dividend in Gambia, Muslim religious opinion holders would have addressed the eratic conduct of Jammeh and his gang. In the face of all the 90% Muslims in Gambia, not one is daring enough to take shield of Islam and to face the challenge of addressing the many UN-ISLAMIC conducts of Jammeh. In short, Gambia is not fully baked for an all-Islamic political system. True Muslims are very few in Gambia. The rest are just names. |
Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 03 May 2007 18:00:07 |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 17:42:15
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quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
An islamic president is the most knowlegable in the rule of law according the Quran and Sunna, a person with a high moral character and above all is god fearing. None of which Jammeh has.
You tell me what was not democratic during Jawara's rule. We had free election, a corrupt elite who took advantage of the masses, freedom of speech, association etc, a liberalized economy with the imf and world bank dictating affairs.
mansasulu, again you seems to be confused about democracy. Democracy does not equate elections for the sake of it. I can guarantee you that Jawara's goverment was not the least democractic. Was there an independent electoral system during Jawara's days? Who were the returning officers? Commissioners? appointed by???? What was the voter registration system? One person could vote hundreds of times then and now???? Who were in contolled of the system regardless of their performance? So a lot of things were not democratic about Jawara regime.
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 17:42:15
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quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
An islamic president is the most knowlegable in the rule of law according the Quran and Sunna, a person with a high moral character and above all is god fearing. None of which Jammeh has.
You tell me what was not democratic during Jawara's rule. We had free election, a corrupt elite who took advantage of the masses, freedom of speech, association etc, a liberalized economy with the imf and world bank dictating affairs.
mansasulu, again you seems to be confused about democracy. Democracy does not equate elections for the sake of it. I can guarantee you that Jawara's goverment was not the least democractic. Was there an independent electoral system during Jawara's days? Who were the returning officers? Commissioners? appointed by???? What was the voter registration system? One person could vote hundreds of times then and now???? Who were in contolled of the system regardless of their performance? So a lot of things were not democratic about Jawara regime.
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 18:13:01
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Karamba, I am sure you were aware of Imam Addullah Fatty, Baba Leigh and Gibril Kujabi taking Jammeh to task on the issue of hijab (The very hijab that is under assault in "democratic" countries France, England and Germany) and many other issues.
Baldeh, democracy as it is today is crafted around Judeo-Christian principles. Islam is a universal system (this is backed by the quran)"We have sent you (Muhammad) as a mercy for all nations." [Sura Anbiyaa, Verse 107]. Now, your notion that islam is a foreign system seems to contradict this quranic ayat (what say you). Muhammad came with a message, the west rejected him outright and kept following Aristotle, and we "accepted" Muhammad and kept following Aristotle or shall I say the west. The fact remains today that democracy is what the west say it is. We will continue to blame the west and their institutions for the failures in our societies because they prescribed it for us and sadly some of us have been so brained washed that we dont even know the origins. For us to succeed we need to follow a course that is compartable to our culture, conviction, belief and above all the commandment of Allah.
Yes islam does not belong to anybody, it belongs to Allah who we all agree is just and yet still we do not want to implement the system of justice he provides. My brother if we are content with Allah we will not be following what west says what democracy is.
Under an islamic system, an economic system that does not take wealth from the poor people in the form of riba and give it to the rich will be the way to go. You see riba alone has destroyed the economy of the Gambia. We are not poor or shall I say our needs are not being met because of a bad economy. It is because of the economic policy that gravitates and gyrates around riba. Consequently Allah is at war with us for making usury a fundamental principle of our economy.
What is wrong with our education system is that our curricular does not have sufficient teachings of Islam for muslims. In short, our school curricular has grave deficiencies that need remedy. I am not asking for an extreme or drastic changes to the education system, all I am asking is to inject truth and justice in it.
Islam does not belong to the middle east, it belongs to mankind. We do not need to follow any country in the middle east. All we need to do is follow the quran and sunna. The Quran says "do not engage in riba," we refuse, and instead say "show me what country follows the teachings of the quran." What we need to do is follwo the path of Allah.
Baldeh show me any country that practices elections and has an "independent" electoral commission. Do you remember Florida 2000, dimpled chards and hanging chards? was there any independence in the electoral board. You can only get independence if we go by standards that no one had a say in creating. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 03 May 2007 18:22:05 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 18:13:01
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Karamba, I am sure you were aware of Imam Addullah Fatty, Baba Leigh and Gibril Kujabi taking Jammeh to task on the issue of hijab (The very hijab that is under assault in "democratic" countries France, England and Germany) and many other issues.
Baldeh, democracy as it is today is crafted around Judeo-Christian principles. Islam is a universal system (this is backed by the quran)"We have sent you (Muhammad) as a mercy for all nations." [Sura Anbiyaa, Verse 107]. Now, your notion that islam is a foreign system seems to contradict this quranic ayat (what say you). Muhammad came with a message, the west rejected him outright and kept following Aristotle, and we "accepted" Muhammad and kept following Aristotle or shall I say the west. The fact remains today that democracy is what the west say it is. We will continue to blame the west and their institutions for the failures in our societies because they prescribed it for us and sadly some of us have been so brained washed that we dont even know the origins. For us to succeed we need to follow a course that is compartable to our culture, conviction, belief and above all the commandment of Allah.
Yes islam does not belong to anybody, it belongs to Allah who we all agree is just and yet still we do not want to implement the system of justice he provides. My brother if we are content with Allah we will not be following what west says what democracy is.
Under an islamic system, an economic system that does not take wealth from the poor people in the form of riba and give it to the rich will be the way to go. You see riba alone has destroyed the economy of the Gambia. We are not poor or shall I say our needs are not being met because of a bad economy. It is because of the economic policy that gravitates and gyrates around riba. Consequently Allah is at war with us for making usury a fundamental principle of our economy.
What is wrong with our education system is that our curricular does not have sufficient teachings of Islam for muslims. In short, our school curricular has grave deficiencies that need remedy. I am not asking for an extreme or drastic changes to the education system, all I am asking is to inject truth and justice in it.
Islam does not belong to the middle east, it belongs to mankind. We do not need to follow any country in the middle east. All we need to do is follow the quran and sunna. The Quran says "do not engage in riba," we refuse, and instead say "show me what country follows the teachings of the quran." What we need to do is follwo the path of Allah.
Baldeh show me any country that practices elections and has an "independent" electoral commission. Do you remember Florida 2000, dimpled chards and hanging chards? was there any independence in the electoral board. You can only get independence if we go by standards that no one had a say in creating. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 03 May 2007 18:22:05 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 18:30:43
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Religion is not a fact, it is an opinion.
In school it is good to teach children about ALL world religions as a school subject of RE. It is also good to teach morals and social skills.
BUT school isnot a place for religious indoctrination. Schools should encourage pupils to THINK, not just accept what they are told.
I would like to see the end of religious schools and any religious teaching in the sense of learning scripture and so on should take place in the church/mosque or home. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 18:30:43
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Religion is not a fact, it is an opinion.
In school it is good to teach children about ALL world religions as a school subject of RE. It is also good to teach morals and social skills.
BUT school isnot a place for religious indoctrination. Schools should encourage pupils to THINK, not just accept what they are told.
I would like to see the end of religious schools and any religious teaching in the sense of learning scripture and so on should take place in the church/mosque or home. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 18:40:20
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Dear All,
This is not a moment of final decision. Mansasulu is loud and clear about his Islamic Republic of Gambia. That is not to end up the pool of ideas. Perhaps Mansasulu needs going into further details as how this works and how such a system alleviates our present predicaments. That will give all of us chance to learn more. Question for Mansasulu and anyone else in the know: Was Mauritania called Islamic Republic of Mauritania? Was this based on religious or political economic systems anywhere near what you are thinking of Mansasulu? If not how will yours be any different? Am I right to assume that the recently held elections in Mauritania passed along democratic processes? |
Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 03 May 2007 18:49:04 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 18:40:20
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Dear All,
This is not a moment of final decision. Mansasulu is loud and clear about his Islamic Republic of Gambia. That is not to end up the pool of ideas. Perhaps Mansasulu needs going into further details as how this works and how such a system alleviates our present predicaments. That will give all of us chance to learn more. Question for Mansasulu and anyone else in the know: Was Mauritania called Islamic Republic of Mauritania? Was this based on religious or political economic systems anywhere near what you are thinking of Mansasulu? If not how will yours be any different? Am I right to assume that the recently held elections in Mauritania passed along democratic processes? |
Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 03 May 2007 18:49:04 |
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ylowe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 21:04:56
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Good , but could you tell us please which idea will not work in practice , so we can discuss that one ?
HAHAHAHA |
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ylowe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 21:04:56
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Good , but could you tell us please which idea will not work in practice , so we can discuss that one ?
HAHAHAHA |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 22:35:07
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Ylowe: i am sorry , but your answer is not a bit helpful. You were absolutely right that not all ideas that sound good on paper are practicable. However , for the purpose of enlightenment you need to point out for us which ideas you think are not practicale in Gambia's situation. We will all benefit from that knowledge.
Come on let's talk, the bantaba is open. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 22:35:07
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Ylowe: i am sorry , but your answer is not a bit helpful. You were absolutely right that not all ideas that sound good on paper are practicable. However , for the purpose of enlightenment you need to point out for us which ideas you think are not practicale in Gambia's situation. We will all benefit from that knowledge.
Come on let's talk, the bantaba is open. |
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