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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Apr 2007 : 17:28:10
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From TOPIC:Citizen M.L. Drammeh Ignite Debate on Tribal Appts by Mansasula
QUOTES FROM MANSASULA:
"We all agree that the man is tyrant, but he has a mandate and not Jolas voted for him. I think we are better served at turning our energies to something else that continuing to beat a dead horse."
We will test the genral consensus under opinion polls whether Jammeh is a TYRANT later!
The second point would be shifted under the topc "LETS SERIOUSLY DISCUSS GAMBIAN POLITICS AND DEMOCRACY!. I appreciate your comments. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 00:27:05
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Kobo,
It appears some members have burning temptation drifting from focus on the issue of GAMBIAN POLITICS AND DEMOCRACY as you raised. If only people manage to detach the personalities from THE STATE they are half way tackling the problem of personality politics or politics of personalities as prevalent in Gambia. Those who get into politics in Gambia play it like they (the politicians) are more important than the post they seek to occupy. That may not be peculiar to Gambia. Politicians around the world are often condemned for throwing their big shadow over everything at very high costs. For now, it helps us to size down all Gambian politicians to scale. That way we are able to reduce the big shadow effects and to capture the clear and bigger picture of THE NATION STATE. Unless we cast away the big shadows, politics of darkness rounders ball game will remain with us for some time. Again, we need paying more attention on ISSUES than INDIVIDUALS or PERSONALITIES. That is not to suggest in any way ignoring the role of individuals (negative/positive.) Individuals are still important but having to cast individual shadows over the full picture of a nation can be negating good purpose. |
Karamba |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 00:27:05
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Kobo,
It appears some members have burning temptation drifting from focus on the issue of GAMBIAN POLITICS AND DEMOCRACY as you raised. If only people manage to detach the personalities from THE STATE they are half way tackling the problem of personality politics or politics of personalities as prevalent in Gambia. Those who get into politics in Gambia play it like they (the politicians) are more important than the post they seek to occupy. That may not be peculiar to Gambia. Politicians around the world are often condemned for throwing their big shadow over everything at very high costs. For now, it helps us to size down all Gambian politicians to scale. That way we are able to reduce the big shadow effects and to capture the clear and bigger picture of THE NATION STATE. Unless we cast away the big shadows, politics of darkness rounders ball game will remain with us for some time. Again, we need paying more attention on ISSUES than INDIVIDUALS or PERSONALITIES. That is not to suggest in any way ignoring the role of individuals (negative/positive.) Individuals are still important but having to cast individual shadows over the full picture of a nation can be negating good purpose. |
Karamba |
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salimina
253 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 04:41:34
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| Good reasoning bro, i like that |
Edited by salimina |
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salimina
253 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 04:41:34
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| Good reasoning bro, i like that |
Edited by salimina |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 15:30:49
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Kobo, the fact of the matter is that Democracy has proven to be a massive failure in the Gambia. For 42 years, we followed a system that has kept regressing our development and we keep following it. I said in my maiden posting here, and I will say it again loud and clear that Democracy is not for Gambia and let me extend that further and include the whole continent of AFRICA. You show me 1 country in Africa where democarcy has solved their problems. The whiteman came and enslaved us for centuries and then we allow them to continue to enslave us today.
Everytime I hear people taking about democracy in Gambia, or Africa for that matter, my heart bleeds. What we need to do is go back to what we are commanded to follow by Allah. Allah said in the Quran,Chapter 13(Ar Rad), Verse 11: “Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls).” Now the choice is ours, we can continue to follow the likes of Aristotle and Churchill or we can turn to the promise of Allah.
Democracy for me as far as Gambia is concerned is a non starter. It failed yesterday, it will fail today and it will continue to fail.
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"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 15:30:49
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Kobo, the fact of the matter is that Democracy has proven to be a massive failure in the Gambia. For 42 years, we followed a system that has kept regressing our development and we keep following it. I said in my maiden posting here, and I will say it again loud and clear that Democracy is not for Gambia and let me extend that further and include the whole continent of AFRICA. You show me 1 country in Africa where democarcy has solved their problems. The whiteman came and enslaved us for centuries and then we allow them to continue to enslave us today.
Everytime I hear people taking about democracy in Gambia, or Africa for that matter, my heart bleeds. What we need to do is go back to what we are commanded to follow by Allah. Allah said in the Quran,Chapter 13(Ar Rad), Verse 11: “Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls).” Now the choice is ours, we can continue to follow the likes of Aristotle and Churchill or we can turn to the promise of Allah.
Democracy for me as far as Gambia is concerned is a non starter. It failed yesterday, it will fail today and it will continue to fail.
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"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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salimina
253 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 16:03:51
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Mansa,
To go with chapter 13 (ar Rad) is a wonderful idea but i thinks our version of islam is so diluted that it cant`t stand the rigours of Sharia.Lets just change our version of democracy-something that can suit us not to follow the western model because of the differing cultues.What is great for one culture cannot be the same for others. |
Edited by salimina |
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salimina
253 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 16:03:51
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Mansa,
To go with chapter 13 (ar Rad) is a wonderful idea but i thinks our version of islam is so diluted that it cant`t stand the rigours of Sharia.Lets just change our version of democracy-something that can suit us not to follow the western model because of the differing cultues.What is great for one culture cannot be the same for others. |
Edited by salimina |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 17:30:52
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To assume that democracy is not workable in Gambia or Africa is much of a sweeping statement. If democracy simply means the running of a political establishment by all for the benfit of all, that is something Gambia requires. The fact that certain political groups or individuals FAIL(ED) to keep the principles does not mean democracy is not workable. The very Islamic principles and values Mansa advocates are being disgracefully abused in Gambia. Does that change anything in the principles. Human nature is so imbalanced that all the good principles taught by religion and ethical establishments are regularly abused. If it takes ten (10) generations of politicians to deviate from the basic principles of DEMOCRACY, that is no good reason for democracy to be abandoned. While you may be very comfortable with your opinion Mansasulu, you have failed to subtantiate with adequate reason why Gambia has to abandon democracy. The failure on the side of some does not warrant others can't make it work. Gambia certainly needs democracy.
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Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 30 Apr 2007 23:03:51 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 17:30:52
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To assume that democracy is not workable in Gambia or Africa is much of a sweeping statement. If democracy simply means the running of a political establishment by all for the benfit of all, that is something Gambia requires. The fact that certain political groups or individuals FAIL(ED) to keep the principles does not mean democracy is not workable. The very Islamic principles and values Mansa advocates are being disgracefully abused in Gambia. Does that change anything in the principles. Human nature is so imbalanced that all the good principles taught by religion and ethical establishments are regularly abused. If it takes ten (10) generations of politicians to deviate from the basic principles of DEMOCRACY, that is no good reason for democracy to be abandoned. While you may be very comfortable with your opinion Mansasulu, you have failed to subtantiate with adequate reason why Gambia has to abandon democracy. The failure on the side of some does not warrant others can't make it work. Gambia certainly needs democracy.
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Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 30 Apr 2007 23:03:51 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2007 : 14:55:45
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Salimina, what we need to do to our "diluted" islam is saturate it with more islamic principles. I believe that will solve the problem. Until we try Shariah we will never be in the position to know. What we do know is that democracy has regressed out development. These are the facts, not my opinion.
Karamba, look around the world where democracy has "succeeded" and try to compare their societies to that of any African country. There are a few basic prerequisites under which democracy "supposedly" works, none of which are present in gambia. These are a common language, common people and a society formed on individualism. African societies are bonded by communual principles and as multicultural as they come people are more likely to show allegiance to their clan, tribe, culture than a state. Ethnicity and culture does not bind Gambians when it comes to getting people together. What rallies people under one banner is religion. This is the reason why islam is the solution for the Gambia. After all this is what Allah commanded us to do. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2007 : 14:55:45
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Salimina, what we need to do to our "diluted" islam is saturate it with more islamic principles. I believe that will solve the problem. Until we try Shariah we will never be in the position to know. What we do know is that democracy has regressed out development. These are the facts, not my opinion.
Karamba, look around the world where democracy has "succeeded" and try to compare their societies to that of any African country. There are a few basic prerequisites under which democracy "supposedly" works, none of which are present in gambia. These are a common language, common people and a society formed on individualism. African societies are bonded by communual principles and as multicultural as they come people are more likely to show allegiance to their clan, tribe, culture than a state. Ethnicity and culture does not bind Gambians when it comes to getting people together. What rallies people under one banner is religion. This is the reason why islam is the solution for the Gambia. After all this is what Allah commanded us to do. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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somita
United Kingdom
163 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2007 : 17:23:40
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I have argued on this forum for a long time that we need a re-think about the system of governance we call democracy. The idea that it’s the best system available is subject to debate, equally the suggestion that there exist another system of governance that is better is equally subject to academic debate.
Africa and Africans never had the opportunity to create and own a system of governance in recent history, we either lost the creativity, knowledge or organisation to design and develop such a system or we are compelled by the choiceless options we face from the western world. Too often we are too quick to jump into others banwagon without given it enough thought or consideration. Today we have successfully continue to erode our culture and traditions for some higher ends, unfortunatly Mama history and time has shown consistently only moved from one dictator to another with the aim to implementing a western style democracy.
Fundamentally for any system of government to yield desired results i.e to delivery the goods and services effectively and efficiently to the governed, first the governed have to take ownership of the system, know the system in and outs, willing to take responsibility and equally benefits from the system. If there is anything lacking in our model of democracy is ownership. It’s a top bottom designed, type that allows dictators to prospers and progress.
Until we can engaged in a sensible debate about our future and that of our children, I am sad to announce that we are heading to the island of doom. |
Edited by - somita on 01 May 2007 17:29:35 |
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somita
United Kingdom
163 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2007 : 17:23:40
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I have argued on this forum for a long time that we need a re-think about the system of governance we call democracy. The idea that it’s the best system available is subject to debate, equally the suggestion that there exist another system of governance that is better is equally subject to academic debate.
Africa and Africans never had the opportunity to create and own a system of governance in recent history, we either lost the creativity, knowledge or organisation to design and develop such a system or we are compelled by the choiceless options we face from the western world. Too often we are too quick to jump into others banwagon without given it enough thought or consideration. Today we have successfully continue to erode our culture and traditions for some higher ends, unfortunatly Mama history and time has shown consistently only moved from one dictator to another with the aim to implementing a western style democracy.
Fundamentally for any system of government to yield desired results i.e to delivery the goods and services effectively and efficiently to the governed, first the governed have to take ownership of the system, know the system in and outs, willing to take responsibility and equally benefits from the system. If there is anything lacking in our model of democracy is ownership. It’s a top bottom designed, type that allows dictators to prospers and progress.
Until we can engaged in a sensible debate about our future and that of our children, I am sad to announce that we are heading to the island of doom. |
Edited by - somita on 01 May 2007 17:29:35 |
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