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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
 Posted - 15 May 2007 : 00:04:34
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My problem is I have more questions than answers.
No offence is meant. I beg your pardon, if you feel offended.
I am puzzled by the complexity of the ambivalence, the depth of the triple heritage.
Having a Mandingka nickname, writing in English, quoting the Koran in Arabic and advocating for Islamic law in the Gambia…………because the western model of democracy has not worked in 40 years. There is no democracy that took 40 years to function, rather it took hundred if not hundreds of years for today’s Western so called democracies to reach this level ……….. It’s not a perfect system and different from country to country.
Secondly my knowledge in English is very limited.
“We need to reform and usher in a political system that is backed by the culture, morals, and religious convictions of the majority of the Gambian people.” You have to excuse my ignorance but which culture are you referring to? Is there any difference between Islamic and Gambian cultures?
Nobody is wondering why China is where she is today. China walked her own path, through her language, culture and tradition not through Western model democracy nor Islamic Law and it took her more than 40 years to be “the power house” of the world economy it is today.
We can not climb a tree from the top.
I ning baara
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 00:31:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Janko
My problem is I have more questions than answers.
No offence is meant. I beg your pardon, if you feel offended.
I am puzzled by the complexity of the ambivalence, the depth of the triple heritage.
Having a Mandingka nickname, writing in English, quoting the Koran in Arabic and advocating for Islamic law in the Gambia…………because the western model of democracy has not worked in 40 years. There is no democracy that took 40 years to function, rather it took hundred if not hundreds of years for today’s Western so called democracies to reach this level ……….. It’s not a perfect system and different from country to country.
Secondly my knowledge in English is very limited.
“We need to reform and usher in a political system that is backed by the culture, morals, and religious convictions of the majority of the Gambian people.” You have to excuse my ignorance but which culture are you referring to? Is there any difference between Islamic and Gambian cultures?
Nobody is wondering why China is where she is today. China walked her own path, through her language, culture and tradition not through Western model democracy nor Islamic Law and it took her more than 40 years to be “the power house” of the world economy it is today.
We can not climb a tree from the top.
I ning baara
janko ,point of correction .you see when we as gambian are talking about politics we tend to assume everything can be done devoid of religion ,this is a mere falacy .the west .what do you mean when one say west ? the west is synonimous with christianity true or false ? where did christianity originate from ? the west or middle east ? why did hitler try to scrabe christianity ? because it is jewish connected .
it doesn't mean we cannot use islam to identity us as gambians .the gambia have known islam far better than we know our animist side. so lets cut the crap . even america the bastion of capitalism is stronger in christian faith than most developed western countries. china modify the budish tradition which is originally indian or let me put it accurately Nepalist in origin .who is buhda ? we all copy what we assume to be right .and for me ,nothing is better than islam .remember not all arabs are muslims .islam is a way on its own .the quran been in arabic doesn't mean we cannot adopt it for us.
how can you devorce religion from politics when politicians are the most religious zealots all over the place .from rome to 10 downing street .this men are secret religious fanatics. read behind the head lines. most of this politicians have strong christian convictions just because they say different things doesn't mean they don't pin the readcrosss on their shirt under the suit . we know islam as our culture .this is undeniablly true .we don't need to pacify any one .our ancestors choose islam .we found it to be accurate and consistent. if you want to have a double personality , which is hypocritical at its best go ahead. the west are a christian nations .why wouldn't they admit turky in euro ? they did admit romania, bulgaria,poland,latvia,chech etc .this are all chriatian dominated ,why is austria very vehemently againts any though of admiting turky ? islam .so don't jump to conclusion. we can be better people by not being extremist and also mixing up what good the west is to offer with what good we have .a cocktail .it can be done.we only look at the west for democracy which is not moving forward the way we like it. it doesn't mean it cannot work for us but because we are taking too much from them . |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 00:31:12
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janko ,point of correction .you see when we as gambian are talking about politics we tend to assume everything can be done devoid of religion ,this is a mere falacy .the west .what do you mean when one say west ? the west is synonimous with christianity true or false ? where did christianity originate from ? the west or middle east ? why did hitler try to scrabe christianity ? because it is jewish connected .
it doesn't mean we cannot use islam to identity us as gambians .the gambia have known islam far better than we know our animist side. so lets cut the crap . even america the bastion of capitalism is stronger in christian faith than most developed western countries. china modify the budish tradition which is originally indian or let me put it accurately Nepalist in origin .who is buhda ? we all copy what we assume to be right .and for me ,nothing is better than islam .remember not all arabs are muslims .islam is a way on its own .the quran been in arabic doesn't mean we cannot adopt it for us.
how can you devorce religion from politics when politicians are the most religious zealots all over the place .from rome to 10 downing street .this men are secret religious fanatics. read behind the head lines. most of this politicians have strong christian convictions just because they say different things doesn't mean they don't pin the readcrosss on their shirt under the suit . we know islam as our culture .this is undeniablly true .we don't need to pacify any one .our ancestors choose islam .we found it to be accurate and consistent. if you want to have a double personality , which is hypocritical at its best go ahead. the west are a christian nations .why wouldn't they admit turky in euro ? they did admit romania, bulgaria,poland,latvia,chech etc .this are all chriatian dominated ,why is austria very vehemently againts any though of admiting turky ? islam .so don't jump to conclusion. we can be better people by not being extremist and also mixing up what good the west is to offer with what good we have .a cocktail .it can be done.we only look at the west for democracy which is not moving forward the way we like it. it doesn't mean it cannot work for us but because we are taking too much from them . |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 11:34:37
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All Laws are developed from Customs and Traditions
I am Gambian then Muslim not the other way round
Hear me well, no misinterpretation is pardonable.
I can understand the therapeutic function of discussing matters like this on the net without a genuine engagement but let’s at least have the intention of learning something from each other. He who knows it all has no need being here.
”so lets cut the crap”
“if you want to have a double personality, which is hypocritical at its best go ahead”....explain....can´t get away with wishful thinking
“/---/ the west are a Christian nations”…...ruled by the civil code of law not Christian law.
“why wouldn't they admit turkey in euro?”(Start a new post on that) In Turkey state and religion are separated.
”so don't jump to conclusion”. What conclusion did I jump to?
In my opinion to gambianise, democracy, Islam, socialism, capitalism is in- cooperating it (”a cocktail”) with the Gambian culture, tradition and worldview to suit the Gambian context.
“we know Islam as our culture”.....Gambia is not a 100% muslim country.... You seem to talk of Islam as absolute but forget the difference in culture makes Islam slightly different from country to country and from region to region. The model of Islam in Turkey is different from the Afghan model …….. and so fort.
It would do us good to start a new post on “What is Culture”.
Remember the man who dropped his penny in the dark but searched for it where there is light.
We can not climb a tree from the top.
Yes, we can, with the help of a helicopter, said the comedian
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 11:34:37
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All Laws are developed from Customs and Traditions
I am Gambian then Muslim not the other way round
Hear me well, no misinterpretation is pardonable.
I can understand the therapeutic function of discussing matters like this on the net without a genuine engagement but let’s at least have the intention of learning something from each other. He who knows it all has no need being here.
”so lets cut the crap”
“if you want to have a double personality, which is hypocritical at its best go ahead”....explain....can´t get away with wishful thinking
“/---/ the west are a Christian nations”…...ruled by the civil code of law not Christian law.
“why wouldn't they admit turkey in euro?”(Start a new post on that) In Turkey state and religion are separated.
”so don't jump to conclusion”. What conclusion did I jump to?
In my opinion to gambianise, democracy, Islam, socialism, capitalism is in- cooperating it (”a cocktail”) with the Gambian culture, tradition and worldview to suit the Gambian context.
“we know Islam as our culture”.....Gambia is not a 100% muslim country.... You seem to talk of Islam as absolute but forget the difference in culture makes Islam slightly different from country to country and from region to region. The model of Islam in Turkey is different from the Afghan model …….. and so fort.
It would do us good to start a new post on “What is Culture”.
Remember the man who dropped his penny in the dark but searched for it where there is light.
We can not climb a tree from the top.
Yes, we can, with the help of a helicopter, said the comedian
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 12:39:35
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| janko, good posting, |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 12:39:35
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| janko, good posting, |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 15:33:46
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I was not gonna make any more postings on this topic, but it seems there is still work to be done here.
Janko, let me start with a point of correction..."you are Muslim and then Gambian" because, you were born on fitrah. The Gambia as you know it, probably has a shorter history than islam in you family. If that is the case, "your customs and traditions" as is the case with the overwhelming majority of Gambians is rooted in islam, rather than artificial Gambia. Artificial in the sense, that the Berlin Conference 1884-85 created Gambia. Now if we studied the same history about our society, Islam predates the creation of Gambia as a nation today. Enough of that, and allow me to turn to more salient issues.
There are some people on this forum who are merely interested in a Gambia that provides a paradise of moral decadence,torpitude, indecency, and vice. It is natural for them to support a system that provides an environment for them to do what ever they want(Jambo and his pals). For example there are more important things to Gambians than the state of tourism. If we think our development hinges on tourism, we are sadly mistaken.
The fact of the matter is that we dont know where we are headed and frankly what credibility does the west have when they fooled us the first time we came in contact with them. They succeeded in enslaving us for over 400 hundred years and now they have turned us into perenial beggars. You can blame all problems in Africa on corruption, but is it not western institutions [IMF and WB] that facilitate corruption in the first place by continuously loaning to despots?
Let me remind you that Islam is the same across the board. The problem is that some of us take it as a parttime hobby instead of a way of life. This is serious business. If you think you can thump you chest and nose on the laws of Allah and believe that somethings in this world "belong to Caesar" you are seriously mistaken.
The promise of Allah will surely be come true, the question is are you gonna be part of that process or not? [Sura Luqman, Verse 33... Verily, the promise of Allah is true: let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver deceive you about Allah.] |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 15 May 2007 15:41:47 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 15:33:46
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I was not gonna make any more postings on this topic, but it seems there is still work to be done here.
Janko, let me start with a point of correction..."you are Muslim and then Gambian" because, you were born on fitrah. The Gambia as you know it, probably has a shorter history than islam in you family. If that is the case, "your customs and traditions" as is the case with the overwhelming majority of Gambians is rooted in islam, rather than artificial Gambia. Artificial in the sense, that the Berlin Conference 1884-85 created Gambia. Now if we studied the same history about our society, Islam predates the creation of Gambia as a nation today. Enough of that, and allow me to turn to more salient issues.
There are some people on this forum who are merely interested in a Gambia that provides a paradise of moral decadence,torpitude, indecency, and vice. It is natural for them to support a system that provides an environment for them to do what ever they want(Jambo and his pals). For example there are more important things to Gambians than the state of tourism. If we think our development hinges on tourism, we are sadly mistaken.
The fact of the matter is that we dont know where we are headed and frankly what credibility does the west have when they fooled us the first time we came in contact with them. They succeeded in enslaving us for over 400 hundred years and now they have turned us into perenial beggars. You can blame all problems in Africa on corruption, but is it not western institutions [IMF and WB] that facilitate corruption in the first place by continuously loaning to despots?
Let me remind you that Islam is the same across the board. The problem is that some of us take it as a parttime hobby instead of a way of life. This is serious business. If you think you can thump you chest and nose on the laws of Allah and believe that somethings in this world "belong to Caesar" you are seriously mistaken.
The promise of Allah will surely be come true, the question is are you gonna be part of that process or not? [Sura Luqman, Verse 33... Verily, the promise of Allah is true: let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver deceive you about Allah.] |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 15 May 2007 15:41:47 |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 16:12:26
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mansasulu, two questions for you
question did i insult you
i quote you "There are some people on this forum who are merely interested in a Gambia that provides a paradise of moral decadence,torpitude, indecency, and vice. It is natural for them to support a system that provides an environment for them to do what ever they want(Jambo and his pals). For example there are more important things to Gambians than the state of tourism. If we think our development hinges on tourism, we are sadly mistaken".
question two, why did you mention me, were in my postings do i give you the impression that i go to gambia for " a paradise of moral decadence,torpitude, indecency, and vice".
is that what you think, and what is it based on |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 16:12:26
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mansasulu, two questions for you
question did i insult you
i quote you "There are some people on this forum who are merely interested in a Gambia that provides a paradise of moral decadence,torpitude, indecency, and vice. It is natural for them to support a system that provides an environment for them to do what ever they want(Jambo and his pals). For example there are more important things to Gambians than the state of tourism. If we think our development hinges on tourism, we are sadly mistaken".
question two, why did you mention me, were in my postings do i give you the impression that i go to gambia for " a paradise of moral decadence,torpitude, indecency, and vice".
is that what you think, and what is it based on |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 16:36:45
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Santanfara,
Almami Samori was one of our greatest leaders.
I see why you are just like a Touray.
As we say "TOURAY NGANA MANDINGMORI, JANNEH NGANA MANDINGMORI, KOMMA NGAMANDINGMORI,CEESAY NGANA MANDINGMORI". In Manding , you people are the Mansas and Marabouts. So you know now that Touray, Janneh, Ceesay and Komma are the same,the differents between you Tourays are your places of settelments. I hope we can meet some day. Jalikunda have even plans to organise an evening for the history Mali Empire together with the organisation SUNDIATTA to begin with.Both the Jelis and JeliDjonos(The Kuyatehs)are going to take part. Look out for the program.
I hope you will tell your children about your great, great great grandfather.
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Edited by - Alhassan on 15 May 2007 16:40:15 |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 16:36:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Thank you for the clarification.
Not to deviate from the topic, just curious.
Am sure you are aware of the symbolism of Sulu in mandingka.
Is there any difference between Mansa sulu and Sulu mansa?
What connotation do you give to your usage of Mansasulu?
Correct me if am wrong;
Samori was a Manding Manso that resisted colonial rule and reformed the traditional structure of governance by mandincanizing islam, he did not islamise Manding. Do you mean Gambia would be better off if she gambianises Islam or you mean she is better off being islamised?
janko ,you are asking mansasulu personally so i will not answer for him .but as a touray i will only highlight that Almamy Samouri was a great resistance fighter. he did not only mandicanise islam he also played a big role is making the animist manding people aware of islam .we the touray's ans ceesay's have a long connection . almamy samouri was taught by the ceesay kunda but later took it upon himself to challenge the french dominance and the traditional idol worship in his region .there is well documented book writen about his role is spreading islam in genuea and those area's. a book written by a british professor of the person of harold thomas . i don't aggree with some of his method's though but overall he is ok. the ceesay kunda later left it upon us tourays to spear head islam  the camara were also warrior fighters but then the french end up capturing our ancestor Almamy samouri ,he was killed .may Allah bless his soul .i still cry for for him .
Santanfara,
Almami Samori was one of our greatest leaders.
I see why you are just like a Touray.
As we say "TOURAY NGANA MANDINGMORI, JANNEH NGANA MANDINGMORI, KOMMA NGAMANDINGMORI,CEESAY NGANA MANDINGMORI". In Manding , you people are the Mansas and Marabouts. So you know now that Touray, Janneh, Ceesay and Komma are the same,the differents between you Tourays are your places of settelments. I hope we can meet some day. Jalikunda have even plans to organise an evening for the history Mali Empire together with the organisation SUNDIATTA to begin with.Both the Jelis and JeliDjonos(The Kuyatehs)are going to take part. Look out for the program.
I hope you will tell your children about your great, great great grandfather.
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Edited by - Alhassan on 15 May 2007 16:40:15 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 16:50:31
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JAMBO DID YOU NOT POST THIS...?
"if gambia becomes an islamic state you can kiss the tourism industry good bye, right now tourism is not in the high figures that it could be, so anything that is a deterrent is not always welcomed, other destinations are coming through are just as intersting for tourist, ghana, and cape verde islands, this is a fact.
right now there are certain things that holidaymakers enjoy that an islamic state would not,
gambiling, casinos, women wearing shorts, alchol, sex outside marriage, think about it this would be under heavier control and restrictions within an islami state." |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 15 May 2007 16:50:58 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2007 : 16:50:31
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JAMBO DID YOU NOT POST THIS...?
"if gambia becomes an islamic state you can kiss the tourism industry good bye, right now tourism is not in the high figures that it could be, so anything that is a deterrent is not always welcomed, other destinations are coming through are just as intersting for tourist, ghana, and cape verde islands, this is a fact.
right now there are certain things that holidaymakers enjoy that an islamic state would not,
gambiling, casinos, women wearing shorts, alchol, sex outside marriage, think about it this would be under heavier control and restrictions within an islami state." |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
Edited by - mansasulu on 15 May 2007 16:50:58 |
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