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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 12:58:23
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Who should be the beneficiaries? Africa, Europe, America or West Indies. The victims of slavery are dispersed all over the world? Who should be paid compensation? How are you going to measure amount of compensation?
The world have advanced and we are in a much better modern world. Reparations and all the sorts are for politicians and the fat cats spinning policies! |
Edited by - kobo on 16 Oct 2006 13:01:06 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 13:22:51
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Who should be the beneficiaries? Africa, Europe, America or West Indies. The victims of slavery are dispersed all over the world? Who should be paid compensation? How are you going to measure amount of compensation?The world have advanced and we are in a much better modern world. Reparations and all the sorts are for politicians and the fat cats spinning policies!
Sorry kobo, I don't have an answer to all your questions. Just saying that we live in a 'much better modern world' sounds a little bit naive to me.
Maybe gambiabev's proposal could be the most practical way to deal with the problem, which does not mean it would be the fairest way. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 13:32:08
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Why naivity and how? Can you substanstiate please? My point of contrast is from the days of slavery to present days.
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Edited by - kobo on 16 Oct 2006 13:35:28 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 13:37:31
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Yes you are right Kobo the victims of slavery are dispersed all over the world. However they all got the same thing in common they can't trace their family trees more than 6 generations if they are lucky without hitting the brick wall of slavery.
The question of Africa's compensation is controversial because many Africans benefited from selling Africans to the European slavers to overlook this is to rewrite history. On the other hand many continental Africans suffered because members of their families were sold into slavery.
So yes Africa can be compensated through repatriation of African Diaspora descendents who wish to return, and the canceling out of debt repayments, abolition of Tied Development Aid aimed at keeping Africans illiterate and unhealthy, unfair trade tariffs which reject manufacturing goods from Africa, including African getting equitable prices for Diamonds, Gold, and Cobalt etc.
Even during slavery times enslaved Africans were in the above territories, so this shouldn't pose as an obstacle considering, we are talking about the transatlantic slave Trade. African Diaspora descendents of enslaved Africans should be compensated, just like their Ancestors Slave Masters were compensated by the colonial powers for emancipating the Diaspora's forebears in 19th Century.
Call arrears for unpaid work over 350 years of forced labour all of the jobs enslaved Africans did there was a paid equivalent so it should be too hard to get a estimates. Also most of the punishments meted out to enslaved people oversees were paid for every lash and every unimaginable torture coupled with the fact it was enshrined in law. As slavery was regarded as a business so compensation shouldn't be too hard to tally up either. The trillion dollar signs are flashing as I speak. Although compensation doesn't erase this episode of human beings inhumanity to human beings, it will go along way to regenerating Africa and African Diaspora communities world-wide and its long overdue.
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 16 Oct 2006 13:54:53 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 13:59:58
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To be straight forward. I can tell you Sister, anytime slavery is discussed, hearts and minds are broken, crime and criminals, the pirates, masters and servants, rascism, class, segregation and discrimination is revived.
Forget compensation. WHO? Is paying WHO? |
Edited by - kobo on 16 Oct 2006 14:07:20 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 14:12:03
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Kobo,It's interesting you highlighted the 4 words above and of course slavery was part of the class system which gave birth to discrimination,racism and segregation to purge the system of racial discrimination we need to get to the croax of the matter by openly discussing the issue cause hiding under the carpet won't make it go away any time soon.
As for who is paying those companies,institutions, establishmenbts, landowners etc who directly profitted from the trade and invested monies into process of modernity through the industrial revolution etc. In fact
a radical shift in how the monetary system is biased in favor of the North who benefitted both directly and indirectly through the trade.
One way of reparations could be relaxing immigration laws to allow freedom of movement. Basically shifts to allow Africans to become economically independent instead of being dependent as the world system has been set up for Africa and its people to be.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 16 Oct 2006 14:25:50 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 14:37:23
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There are no obligations from the blunders of history. It was an awful era like others recorded through history. Bringing slavery damarcates society. Forget it! Its history and we should use the past to build the future. If you scrutinise it its always open-ended between whites and backs, Europe, America, Africa etc. There were slavery as a tradition in the Arab world and other parts of Asia. It was endemic throughout the whole world.
The politicians and spin doctors who want to exploit on this theme of reparations are not the best to decide for Africa its dues by degrading Africa from their colonial masters. Should Africa be always asking for aid, assistance, compensation, development from Western countries and America to depict a scenario of Have and Have nots, Master (Patron) and servant (beggar)? We already have our independence and soveriengty, also the manpower and resources (abundant wealth), whatelse do we need from them (those being blackmailed to compensate Africa). The African Kings and some African criminals with their progenies have already benefited and others were victimised and even exterminated. What tragedies to exploit for the love of MONEY, MATERIALISM AND CORRUPTION? Certain African politicians are there to used slavery and reparations to spun the world and blackmail Europe and America. |
Edited by - kobo on 16 Oct 2006 15:14:44 |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 15:09:08
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Sister Omega i share Kobo's view and spirit. i think your concerns are genuine and you would like to see a prosperous Africa. this is my view.
No amount of money can buy back the dignity of those who suffered. Rather today the African Diaspora is greatly underexploited. We have people of African origin in the Caribbean, South America, USA, Canada, Europe. In many countries, the native popluation was replaced by Africans. we should celebrate this great dispersion of our people together. No one should return anyone to Africa? why should they? who will own thoses lands thereafter?
you can take it from me, Africa doesnt lack money.i have travelled to a few countries outside gambia and just believe me on this, its not about lack of money.Africa lacks leadership. most of its leaders have no idea of their place in history and where they want to take their people or contribution to global civilisation. this is the problem not European policy. i dont care about Europe.
Ask yourself why should an African immigrate in the first place?? she/he can travel, be a tourist but why does he want to leave permanently? if we get our act together we will end up just like the post WWII europe/Japan, Korea and now India or China.
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 15:34:15
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I am not ashamed of my Ancestors and I don't feel that their chapter within history should be kept a dirty secret or something to be ashamed of either. They made a huge contribution to the modern world even the money which we toll over, the banks which we deposit them in came out of their blood sweat and tears. As far as repatriation goes there are many people in the west who would gladly repatriate and live in Africa with a financial package. Also we are not talking about given up our lands in the Caribbean neither. Njucks a lot of African people wouldn't even bother migrating if they knew what awaited them in their greener pastures. A lot of today's European fever Africans are killing themselves for is overated. People in Africa and Caribbean really need to see the day today realities of living in the West before they jump blindly into a boat risking their lives to be deported home again? I mentioned freedom of movement well Africans freedom of movement has been large constricted since slavery days. It's ironic how Western Europe is so full up for African immigrants but for Eastern Europeans though.
Kobo I hear your point about African politicans milking the cow for all they can get. However reparation must be linked with the Diaspora who are not prepared to be resold again by either African or Europeans.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 16 Oct 2006 15:48:03 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 16:03:32
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Its all about our what beats about on conscience, self-esteem and human dignity. Africa should now starting walking TALL, face its own challenges like how a nation like China work hard on their economics and resources and developing to be counted as the fastest growing economy for next super power!
The chapter of slavery have long been concluded since ababdonment of slavery. Africa should rise up to progressive challenges, deal with its own phenomenal political problems, wars, eradicate poverty and aids (not the disease of aids proper but begging for sponsors and grants!) Africans should also start looking for medicines to cure begging and always asking for ramson like the aids desease! |
Edited by - kobo on 16 Oct 2006 16:21:45 |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 16:31:04
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the one who suffer mostly-those who lost they love one's on and so on .
but that is a little worried for the west because believe it or not they have record deep in the special libraries if that in bockenheim place or nr.10 down street.
of sharing it will not bee a difficulty thinks there are Germans they know how to that as with the Jew's or Roma's
they are paying even the Russians back.
but what is most important is that they come out with clear light.
they be driving us much too long in darkness.
quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Who should be the beneficiaries? Africa, Europe, America or West Indies. The victims of slavery are dispersed all over the world? Who should be paid compensation? How are you going to measure amount of compensation?
The world have advanced and we are in a much better modern world. Reparations and all the sorts are for politicians and the fat cats spinning policies!
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 18:10:48
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Mbay, i was quoting Kons, but i still believe that when the europeans came to Africa it was to trade for humans, the africans in that region where they landed must have and must make acknowledgement of their place in the history of the european slave trade.
I mention European slave trade because if we look at history there was a slave trade to arabian countries as well but that is not documented as much as the european slavers.
Ghana and its governement are making an acknowledgement for their part in allowing the slave trade to happen on the shores.
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 18:25:41
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Why naivity and how? Can you substanstiate please? My point of contrast is from the days of slavery to present days.
Kobo, please get the point that these old days are still influencing the present.
Let me give one example: The image of Africans in the West is still one of deficiency; on the whole it is nothing but the image of 'the stupid slave who needs a master'. Our media are painting this image in a devilishly clever way, using fake compassion as a weapon. The tragedy is that even Africans believe in these false images and refuse to see themselves as competent and strong - which they MUST be, or they would have died out long before.
I agree with your later conclusions, but I am not too optimistic about the time - and, like it or not, the money - it takes to achieve these aims. |
Edited by - serenata on 16 Oct 2006 18:29:14 |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 18:39:07
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njucks i agree African needs leadership, good and honest people, look at some of the leaders in the past, some of the have been more greedy than the slave owners. but some present leaders are getting it together and putting their people first, nigeria with a woman in charge of finance has done a fabulous job of getting the debt situation in order. 
if others could do the same.
some of your examples i find hard to agree with because of Africa being ruled by people who literally hate each China has one ruler the no longer have communist but have demoracy, same rules different title, but just different aims. They have a system where they send students abroard to usa, australia, canada and european to get their degrees and post graduate studies and bring the skills back and take their position in governing their country. not bad for a country who until 20 years ago was closed to visitors unless special invitation was received and their people could not travel abroad, or own land the ruling elite etc. 
but look at it now, they made a collective decision to trade with other countries but they first have to know what they want.
Few african nations have done this. have you tried to trade with African countries lately, sometimes it takes weeks for the paperwork to be done. this adds the to "picture" of a backward place and no hope attitude that people see of the African continent. They just see one place, not individual countries |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 18:39:36
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| Its all bout politics and subjecting Africa as a degraded nation that requires patronage always time and time again. Thats not gonna help the African economies. They need challenges and can count on their abundance of resources including human resources. |
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