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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 19:01:38
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
Babylon and Sister Omega, your ideas don't sound like complete nonsense to me. It looks as if the virus has been carefully 'designed'. First it spread among homosexuals, a group which always was a red rag for Conservatives. Then, around 1990, it took over Africa. Southern Africa, with all its resources, and an extremely racist population in South Africa, who just saw the Blacks win.
But if it was spread out deliberately or not, during the late 80ies, long after testing was obligatory in the US, untested HIV-contaminated blood bottles had been sold to Asia, among others by Cutter Laboratories, US-subsidiary of Bayer/Germany. Most likely they or others also sold them in Africa, or maybe gave them as donations. Now, almost 20 years later, haemophiliac Asian victims (some of the few who survided) are going to courts, after having tracked their infection. For poor Africans this would never be possible.
I rememeber as a young man in the 80s, there used to be mass vaccinations in towns and very long queues. I never saw a needle being changed, the health personnell seem to be pressing a petal and then you are injected. They wrere not the small syringes but a giant one held in hand with something like a pipe attached to it which collects the solution from a tank much like a welding machine. wrere those needales automatically sterilised or not now bothers me a lot. Most people who had the injections, became swollen for sometime. CAN SOME ONE EXPALIN THIS. IT HAPPENED IN THE GAMBIA.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE DO NOT HAVE A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT TO EXERCSE MY RIGHT TO KNOW. |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 19:02:56
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You know what Serenata I give thanx that I missed out on a blood transfusion when I was pregnant with my second daughter in the early 80's luckily she decided to be born the day I was due to have it done. that's just before the AID/HIV adeverts came onto British TV.
peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 19:11:47
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Kondorong i remember those campaigns. i took some at school too and in dippakunda near the mosque.
what they were using was something like a gun but i think it changes the syringe (needles) automatically. i will ask my mum as she is a nurse.
the swelling was just temporary and we were told to press hard on it afterwards. we used to compete to see who will not cry.
i didnt know they included Yoro Bawol in these campaigns, thought you were disease free |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 19:21:27
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Sister Omega, it could be that you were lucky; thanks God.
The Freedom Of Information Act you, kondorong, call for would be necessary; your story sounds horrible! Then it would be possible to find out who sold contaminated blood to African countries in the 80s. After learning about the cases in Asia it is unquestionable to me that this happened. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 19:42:33
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In the 80's people were ignorant of the need to screen blood. In USA people are PAID to give blood, therefore the needy (drug addicts etc) often used this as a way of getting funds.In the Uk this was less of a problem because people volunteer to give blood. Haemopholiacs all over the world died because of infected blood products. These were often imported from the USA.
I am sorry, but I dont go for the conspiracy theories. I think HIV came from monkeys, trasmutated to humans and then spread because of our ignorance.
Is it possible that it spread because people ate the meat of infected monkeys (similar to diseases in birds travelling to human popultion when people eat infected birds?). |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 19:53:24
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
I am sorry, but I dont go for the conspiracy theories. I think HIV came from monkeys, trasmutated to humans and then spread because of our ignorance.
Is it possible that it spread because people ate the meat of infected monkeys (similar to diseases in birds travelling to human popultion when people eat infected birds?).
. you seem not to be sure either.its chimpanzee not monkeys. i dont believe theories either but when and how it spread to humans is the critical issue.
i will give you an example. Reading on from Madiba's original posting. the american Scientists working in the Belgian Congo at that time said they never used chimpazee tissue in their cultures. the local African lab staff say this was a regular local supply of tissue samples?
who is telling the truth? this is what fuels theories.
on a seperate note on sharing blood i remember during the MAD COW crisis in the UK this was mentioned. i dont know what was the final conclusion. do you know? |
Edited by - njucks on 17 Jul 2006 19:54:24 |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 20:01:26
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quote:
Originally posted by njucks
Kondorong i remember those campaigns. i took some at school too and in dippakunda near the mosque.
what they were using was something like a gun but i think it changes the syringe (needles) automatically. i will ask my mum as she is a nurse.
the swelling was just temporary and we were told to press hard on it afterwards. we used to compete to see who will not cry.
i didnt know they included Yoro Bawol in these campaigns, thought you were disease free
WE ARE DISEASE FREE BUT THEY TRICKED US INTO DOING IT. MAY BE WE SHOULD SUE FOR FORCED MEDICATION |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 20:04:10
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Greetings, The Condom - Religion exerts a strong influence on HIV education projects worldwide. Islamic fundamentalism in parts of Africa and the Arab Middle East has often led to Aids prevention work receiving a low priority in order to avoid offending the sensibilities of Muslim society, i.e. extra-marital sex, prostitution and homosexuality are unacceptable, while condoms may be used ONLY for family planning purposes. Thus HIV prevention campaigns avoid any discussion of SAFER SEX; they focus instead on chastity, and fidelity within marriage. Religious doctrine may often undermine rather than facilitate the efforts of HIV educators. Despite figures being released by the WHO before a visit by the late Pope John Paul 11 on a tour in Africa, he announced his opposition to the use of condoms for HIV prevention, stating that they would only encourage 'the very behaviour which has greatly contributed to the expansion of the disease, as has the present Pope Joseph Ratzinger… Millions will loose their lives to HIV/AIDS, and millions could be saved through an extensive education programme of which should be included the - Mother to baby transmission, passing on from mother to infant by breastfeeding, the receiving of blood products, spilled body fluids, sterilising hospital equipment, infection control, dealing with waste disposal, needle stick injuries. So you see the 'promiscuous' females are only a small part of a very large problem.
About five years ago the prostitutes of The Gambia made international medical news. Reports from the MRC/Fajara re the 'real prostitutes' who were BEING MONITORED after providing a positive test had been found to have produced immunity. An exciting find in the scientific world of medicine. It goes that all is not lost in their profession.
The President as Chairman of the National Aids Council, programme stated that the ‘Kanilai magic water’ that was for sale in Banjul earlier this year would help in the cure of AIDS, amongst other diseases - what an absolute winner for the electoral vote! (If it was needed) This statement spread like wildfire among the less educated and in my opinion was disastrous to the trainers in the clinic’s trying their utmost to educate the communities in HIV/AIDS. He should have been committed to a positive speech for a long term extensive education for all over twelve years of age - taking a lesson from South & East Africa, knowing full well it is moving at speed and getting to close for complacency. |
The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 20:24:33
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There are two HIV viruses. HIV-1 is much more common than HIV-2. The latter is mostly restricted to western Africa and appears to cause less immunosuppression than HIV-1. HIV-1 is closely related to a virus found in chimpanzees - simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV cpz)) which appears to cause little or no disease in its host. HIV-2 is most closely related to the virus found in the sooty mangabey monkey (SIVsm). It is likely that the SIVs ' jumped' the species barrier from chimps and monkey to humans, being partially adapted to their new host, and in so doing caused a quite different disease, the like of which had never been seen previously in humans. HIV is therefore a zoonosis - a disease acquired from animals - in origin. Numerous theories have been proposed to account for the species jump. One possibility is that in the process of butchering monkeys and chimpanzees for meat, blood exposure has led to infection. This theory has some weight, but does not satisfactorily explain why the infections apparently occurred for the first time in the 1959's, when monkey meat has been consumed for many thousand years. Another theory is that when the polio vaccine was developed in the late 1959's, the early versions may have led to the introduction of HIV. POLIO vaccine is best cultured in monkey cells, particularly monkey kidney cells. If these cells were infected with SIV viruses then they could have contaminated the polio vaccine. The vaccine is now prepared in human cell cultures......
I referred to this on 23rd Feb 2005 under 'New & highly resistant strain of HIV; NEWS FROM CAMEROON: Meat linked to HIV; Consumption of bush meat may be contributing to the spread of the HIV virus researchers have found. A team of Cameroonian and US scientists have identified a new virus related to HIV that is transmitted to human beings through the consumption of bush meat. Studies made by scientist indicate that people in the East and Central Africa regions who hunt De Brazza’s guenon, mandrill and gorilla are routinely being infected by retroviruses, the class that includes HIV. De Brazza’s and mandrill are naturally infected with SIV, the same class of viruses from which HIV originated. The SIR virus has been transmitted between hunters, traders, cooks and consumers. The presence of antibodies for simian foamy virus (SFV) in one per cent of people tested has been found. SFV should be considered a new retrovirus of human beings.......
regards, sab.
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The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 20:39:22
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| Thanks for that sab. You are very well informed and I am learning alot from your postings. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 20:54:17
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SAB,
i still hold that people are not telling the truth. i am concerned with the now and what should be done to stop this serious situation.
what the american scientists reported recently about eating meat can only be called BAD SCIENCE. knowing the result so try to create the problem. i dont think people started eating this meat in the 1980's. infact the Pgymies who live in these forest have the lowest HIV rates in Africa. it is only now as their forest is being cut down for timber and they are becoming exposed that they are also becoming vulnerable.
i quote from the Guardian on the meeting in London.
''What exactly took place at Lindi camp in the late 1950s is cloaked in secrecy. Forty years on, only the most basic details of the research and vaccination programmes carried out by Koprowski's young American/ Belgian team have been fully reported. The team and drug companies involved admit that some of the records have been lost, memories have faded.
What is known is that Koprowski and his team had brought to Camp Lindi great numbers of chimps. It is known, too, that the white doctors carried out safety tests on their vaccine by injecting Chat into the chimps' spines. They also carried out efficacy tests by vaccinating the animals and then challenging them with virulent polio viruses.''
you can read more from the Guardian Newspaper.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,367345,00.html
i'm even surprised he wasnt given a Nobel Prize for such a break through.
however it must be pointed out that this vacines trial were conducted simultaneously in Asia, N. America, Europe etc. were monkey not chimpanzees were used. this is the critical issue in this debate
Did they or did they not used chimpanzee tissue?
i hope i'm not contributing to theories but an open debate. |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 21:06:09
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
Alhassan, why do you think aids is affecting Africa more? Because of lack of good screening? lack of good drugs for treatment? general health and malnutrition? Or is the most important fact that because it originated in Africa it got a strong hold there before people realised what was happening.
Knowledge and Education gives people an informed choice. They know then what they should do.
Sisters and brothers,
For your information the first person ever to die of Hiv/Aids took place some where in the US in the 30s. Since then it has been showing up in different ways. The scientists in the beginning of the pandemic were taken by suprise. How most of the Africans got affected is still a doubt. Most of the argument has been pointing Africa because of the tests carried out in different parts of the world and found the virus mostly in Africa in chimps. What puzzeled the doctors too in the beginning was that it was gay related. Most of the people who died were men who had sex with men. As time went by more finding have been done and theere is no blame on Africa nowadays. People and scientists have come to agree to find a cure or a vaxine. There is a research group based in the Senegambian region that sends samples and tests carried out. The vaxine has been a failiure , but they still are going on to find it. The drugs avaible have a lots of side effects, but those who take medication regularly are doing fine. They are coping with the situation and live longer and even have children. Nowadays the death rate has reduced, but still its there. In my opinion general health and malnutrition, lack of good medical facilities and investment on public health.I would not say that because it originated in Africa it got a strong hold there before people realised what was happening. Many people have died in the US and Europe of Aids related diseases and they still do. The other issue is the economic factors. The developed countries have not been willing to share equally in the medication. The multy billion companies that manufactor medicine have been too much protected by their governments. Brazil had a hell lot of a time when they deciaded to start manufactoring Aids drugs. Most governments in Africa spen their money on arms and the rest in their pockets(curroption). Now that the industrial world have realised their mistakes so things are changing. I would want to see the world bank by medicine instead of giving all loans to African Governments in cash. Most part of the load would be on Aids drugs to eneable every affected citizen medication hence it is them (the citizins) who is going to pay for the loans. Look at Kongo and other rich countries arround us. Because of not investing on public health, but arms they are in war all the year round, and more people die of Hiv/Aids. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 21:23:07
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| Giving aids drugs instead of cash is a fantastic idea. Then it would go to the right place instead of fueling wars. |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 21:39:56
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Gambiabev, I have to disagree with you on Abstinence & Monogamy.
Abstinence only approach: Teaches that the only place for sex is within marriage, and the only certain way to avoid pregnancy & STD’s is abstinence. Does not teach about contraception.
Abstinence is based on the premise that sex outside marriage is morally wrong. Abstinence-based education got US government backing in 1981, when Congress passed a law to fund sex education that promoted self-restrain.
A key plank of the abstinence approach is to avoid giving advice on contraception. The logic is that such information would give the message that it’s O.K. to have sex.
Then you have Abstinence-Plus...with varying degrees of information on contraception.
MONOGAMY means different things to different people. It may imply staying with one partner for life, or it may mean sticking to one partner for as long as the relationship lasts, then having another relationship and sticking with that one person until it ends, and so on. This is sometimes called serial monogamy. However you interpret it, monogamy offers no watertight guarantee against HIV infection.Monogamy is, in any case, not a realistic option for some people. Relationships begin and end for all kinds of reasons, and the chances are that the first person you have a sexual relationship with is not necessarily going to be someone with whom you want to spend the rest of your life.
To an important degree, the sexual and social status afforded to women throughout the world is shaping the course of the HIV epidemic. Women are often the key providers of health care within their families and local communities, yet their own health and welfare needs may be seen as of secondary importance. From research, women with HIV are diagnosed later and survive for shorter periods of time than do men with the virus; the disparity is attributed to an imbalance in access to health care and inadequate understanding of women's symptoms of infection, rather than biological differences between the sexes. At the same time, women's ability to protect their health is constrained by limited access to education. In many developing countries priority is given to educating men, so illiteracy levels among women may remain high...
Abstinence: It’s difficult to imagine intending not to have sex while also being contraceptively prepared!
regards, sab.
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The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2006 : 22:03:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
AIDs/HIV are man man dieases and I think the reason why Southern and East Africa which have been worst affected by the diease is because of biological warfare in attempt of ethnic cleansing. As we know that Southern East and Central are extremely rich in physical resources. I think that the pandemic in South Africa, which rapidly emerged after the fall of aparthied in South Africa is no coincendence, and was a diliberate attemp by racists to wipe out Black South Africans. It is not suprising that when herbal based African cures have proven to fight the diease their Creators have mysteriously died. There is big money involved in HIV/AIDS for it not to be cured. It is a myth that Africans are more promscious than any other race.
More education about AIDs?HIV Prevention is needed, and the tabboo of HIV?AID's needs to be broken down so that more people can seek the assistance that the need. Babylon raised a good point about the myths being perpetrated about sleep with virgin girls needs to be uprooted and public info to be dessiminated more widely amongst local communities, as well as support groups for Orphan children and elders who are in many cases left to bring up their grandchildren etc.
peace
sister Omega
what you say here definitely cannot be discounted because it makes no sense at all how this disease just appeared and so many people contracted it, it makes no sense. i don't discount it because something similar to what you are saying has happened before when in the united states, whites in the south purposefully gave syphilis to the students at the tuskegee university, a black university, for an experiment or something. really i'm would not be surprised. it sounds bad, but its happened before. |
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