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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 16:26:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Janyanfara
Bev my dear,
It seems you got the whole point wrong here!
Yes the jews suffered during the 2nd world war
Yes yes two of their soldiers were kidnapped
Yes Hamas took one copral.
Tell me:
How many palestinians are in Israel jails?
How many Lebanese are in Israel jails?
Was palestine responsible for jewish sufferings during the 2nd world war?
Why didn't Israel attack Germany.It was the Germans who killed millions of them not the palestinians.
You see Israelis are human beings and they deserve to live in peace as well as every other human being.
LET ISRAEL ALLOW PALESTINE TO HAVE ITS INDEPENDENCE WITHOUT CONDITIONS.
Israel is been funded by America with all its might America is behind it.
BUT MY BELIEF IS AS HUMAN BEINGS ALL LIVES MATTER.
IF YOU ASK THE HESBOLLAH TO DISARM,WHO IS GOING TO DISARM THEM?ISRAEL OR AMERICA?
All these bumbing of airport,seaport ministry buildings,bridges roads[you name them] is not just to disarm Hesbollah is it?You tell me
It is hypocritical for America to sit back chemeleon like saying "Israel has a right to defend it self" while at the same time saying "We don't want the Lebanese Government to crumpple".Well the Lebanese government has already lost the confidence of its people and as we can all see most people are now seeing Hezbollah as the only saviors.Are they really thinking of the long term effect this killing of the innocent women and childreen wwould have on the whole region?
Is America and Britain really fighting terrorism or are they encouraging more terrorists to emerge in the region thus affecting all of us?All wise brained people should be thinking of these.
I AM NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE 9/11 BECAUSE THAT WAS NOT PERPETUATED BY THE PALESTINIANS AND THEY HAVE NO HAND IN IT WHAT SO EVER.THAT WAS BETWEEN THE CIVILISED WORLD AND THE TERRORIST[For everybody was affected in that bumbing]
All am saying is palestine need to havbe their independance period.
You British and Americans would refuse Africans visas to travel to your countries but you have lebanese and Palestinians living amongst you who now have your papers as citizens and who do invite their relatives to come and live with them.Who knows whether one of those invitees would be a wounded lion?
Think about it.
peace
Janyanfara
Janyanfara,
That's a very comprehensive posting. Rational thinking indeed.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 17:26:56
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I have enjoyed reading the response to my postings. When the world feels bleak and sad we would do well to remember that the majority of people in the world want to live in peace, side by side.
Janyanfara I think you patronise me and think I am VERY STUPID! Which I assure you I am not!
Isreal doesnt attack or defend it's self against Germany because it has no dispute with Germany over land.ALSO MOST German people were NOT NATZIS.
The people who carved up the land should have been more thoughtful and careful about the problems they would create for future generations. The oppressed often become the oppressor. It is something I find difficult to understand.  |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 19:40:46
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
The oppressed often become the oppressor. It is something I find difficult to understand.
this is very true in this case. but i dont think its valid as a general statement. Native Americans, Africans, Gypsies, Asians all have had a very ''oppressive'' history. a classic example is South Africa where the oppressed have taken over the country and have shown genuine forgiveness and tolerance even though the former oppressors are walking free critising the present situation.
i think your statement is especially true only when there is a BIG BROTHER behind it all encouraging it. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 20:05:04
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| So do you think it is because they have the power of USA behind them that makes them this way? It is bullying on a grand scale. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 22:01:12
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ALHASSAN:
THE PROBLEM IS THAT A LOT OF US HAVE BECOME ENSLAVED BY HISTORY.ISRAEL IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY. SO PALESTINIANS AND ARABS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE STATE OF ISRAEL.HITLER TRIED TO ERADICATE THE JEWS , WE ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THE ARABS TO FINISH HIS JOB. U.S.( AND EUROPE )HAS SAID THAT ISRAEL IS THEIR FRIEND AND ALLY.
PALESTINE CAN LEARN A LOT FROM MANDELA AND SOUTH AFRICA. BOTH SYRIA AND IRAN DO NOT RECOGNIZE ISRAEL AS A STATE , AND HAMAS AND HEZBOLLAH WISH TO EXTERMINATE ISRAEL. NOBODY CAN DO THAT. i AM SORRY FOR THE STATE OF LEBANON , A HOST (IN THE BIOLOGICAL SENSE) TO THE PARASITIC GROUP HEZBOLLAH THAT IS ULTIMATELY RUINING THEIR COUNTRY.
MUSLIMS ARE KILLING MUSLIMS IN IRAQ AND SUDAN ( DARFUR) BECAUSE OF BIGOTRY ; SECT IN IRAQ AND RACE IN DARFUR. TO SAY OTHERWISE IS TO IGNORE TRUTH.
U.S. HAS BEEN VERY GENEROUS TO ARABS AND MUSLIMS IN THEIR COUNTRY.
BUT YOU KNOW THE WORLD IS GLOBALIZED AND MUSLIMS AND ARABS NEED TO LIVE WITH THAT REALITY. LOOK ARABS INVADED AFRICA CENTURIES AGO AND STILL SETTLES IN NORTH AFRICA TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE INDIGENOUS BERBERS ( IF YOU REMEMBER LUNIS MARTHUB OF ALGERIA, THE BERBER SINGER).
IT IS FUTILE TO TRY TO REMEMBER ALL THESE PAST CONTRADICTIONS. WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS TO FOLLOW THE INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS AND FRAMEWORKS TO ESTABLISH THE "TWO STATE ROAD MAP" OUTLINED BY BUSH AND THE U.N. |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 22:29:41
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Gambiabev – take a look at the ‘Jewish Lobby’ in America on a web site.
A quote from Israel’s former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon,
“Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it”
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The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 23:58:18
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| Oh I know they have a disproportionate lobbying power. It is not good. |
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Newfy
Western Samoa
462 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 00:10:41
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| speaking of lobby power - so do the oil cartel countries have very close relationships with senior and junior Bush, infact they have business relations along with Cheney (Halburtion) and the Premier of Afganistan, also an oil company person. I say look where the money is going in great amounts and then you will find the agenda and support. Greed of individuals for power and money are the aspects of the world which plague us now and not working for the sake of humanity. We are one species are we not?. |
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Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 01:11:42
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Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 19:40:46
Originally posted by gambiabev
The oppressed often become the oppressor. It is something I find difficult to understand
this is very true in this case. but i dont think its valid as a general statement. Native Americans, Africans, Gypsies, Asians all have had a very ''oppressive'' history. a classic example is South Africa where the oppressed have taken over the country and have shown genuine forgiveness and tolerance even though the former oppressors are walking free critising the present situation.
i think your statement is especially true only when there is a BIG BROTHER behind it all encouraging it.
Sister bev,
No I never thought you to be stupid or else I wasn't going to respond to your comments.I think of you as very intelligent but I think your problem is you grew up believing Israel is the oppressed which I think is not true here.
There is no Nation never oppressed.Even America today was answering to you b4 1776 not so?
What we as human beings should understand this: What happened has already happened.Israel had been given the land to settle as a state after the holocust by Britain,helped it militarily to become the middle East supper power,Aided her through all her wars with her neighbours and helped it to defeate almost all of them.Now it is Britain and America's reponsibility to forge for peace and create a palistinian state side by side with Israel.This is not difficult.If it had succeeded in Korea,why not in the middle East?
I hate hearing excuses.Right the wrong you have created.No sencible person would say Israel should be moved to the empty Sahara Desert to have their own state?That is now impossible.Israel is well esterblished in the middle East.But that should not also deprive the Palestinians from statehood.
Who ever is behind the scene preventing the already suffered Palestine from having their own state, would be known if not already known and this is really unfair if we are genuine on freedom for all.
Even some of my collegues within the Human Right movement think Palestinians are terrorist and they are just interested in firing rockets into Israel to kill Isrealis forgetting that an animal with four legs is sometimes more sencible than an oppressed Human being.Though I belief they are not giving the palestinians a fair judgement simply because this is what they are made to believe.
Take an example of the media reporting on the issue.Just watch the news and listen to the journalists!Are they bias in their reporting?You will know what I mean.
The world is tired of excuses.We want action to stop the horror and carnage.This is indeed barbaric and should not happen in any civilised world.
As you rightly said Israel have no land dispute with Germany and many Germans are not Nazis,So are the Palestinians.Not all of them are terrorist.Infact all they want is a palestinian state.Why can't they have one?Who is stopping them?Israel ,America and Britain.Is that fair?The palestinians didn't kill over million Jews b4 or during the second world war.Now why the clash?Allow them to breathe freedom and see whether there will be any fight between them.
peace
Janyanfara |
Edited by - Janyanfara on 20 Jul 2006 01:24:45 |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 11:01:46
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The Palestinians have been denied a right of return to their homes, in breach of numerous United Nations resolutions and international law.
In demanding Israelis withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza, the Security Council used words strikingly similar to those when demanding Iraq’s withdrawal from Kuwait in 1990. When Iraq did not comply, it was attacked by an American led coalition and Kuwait was liberated. When Israel has not complied, it has received increased western support, - economic and military support.
The Israeli regime continues to set the international news agenda. Israilis are ‘murdered by terrorists’, while Palestinians are ‘left dead’ after a ‘clash with security forces.’
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The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 11:14:27
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[quote]Originally posted by sab
" The Palestinians have been denied a right of return to their homes, in breach of numerous United Nations resolutions and international law."
Is this true?
Is it a fact?
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 11:16:53
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Well said Madiba!
peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 12:06:29
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kayjatta,
I understand well that Israel is here to stay. I just coated history. Now I am not an Arab but I am a human being. We have seen what is happening in our own Africa. External forces come , mix us up to start a war and they smuggle all ouyr wealth whilst we are buisy fighting. I have also realised that even the UN is dictated by the US. Have you not heard som US personell saying hthat Anan cant bring about paece in the middle East. When Israel violates UN resolusions no problem, but some other nation gets scantioned. This has even happened many a times during the South African Struggle. I am not anti Arab or Jew, but just wants to see justice done. This has not bee seen yet. Even the Libanese priminester sad , these bombardment will not bring peace. It will creat mor sucicide bombers.
Just tre kidnapped soldiers are not worth the lives of innocent children and women. Let the go after the Hizbollah milis. As you can see, Hizbollah are citizins of Libanon. The Libanese neighbours like Seria cannot let down his people. They are related some how as Arabs.
You must be bias ,for not allowing other nations to support Libanon and Palistine while your friends Israel gets all support. USA and its allies only wage war on weaker nations. This we have seen. That is why presedent Putin said he does not want or he does not admare the type of US built democracy in Irak.
In my opinion, the oppositation to the Palistinian elections show clearly that the US and EU wants to dictate them. This is not democracy.Further more the US only wars after people disarm like in Irak.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 22:31:14
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"EVERY WAR IS A DEFEAT FOR HUMANITY ", SAID POPE JOHN PAUL. SO I AM NOT PRO-WAR. HOWEVER, THE MIDDLE-EASTERN ARABS AND MUSLIMS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT VIOLENCE WILL NOT SOLVE THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM.tHE BEST WAY FORWARD IS TO FOLLOW THE "ROAD MAP" AND ABIDE BY THE U.N. RESOLUTIONS FOR PEACE.
BESIDES ARABS AND MUSLIMS NEED TO SEPARATE RELIGION FROM POLITICS.WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE MIDDLE -EAST TODAY SHOULD BE SEEN PURELY IN THE LIGHT OF POLITICS ONLY.
U.S. DOES NOT DICTATE THE U.N. , OTHERWISE BUSH WOULD HAVE HAD IRAN TAKEN CARE OF , AND A UNANIMOUS MANDATE FOR IRAQ WAR.
PEACE IN THE REGION IS BEING *****ED BY THE ARAB AND MUSLIM TERRORISTS.WHAT DO YOU THINK ALHASSAN? |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 02:36:00
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quote:
"... I know they have a disproportionate lobbying power. It is not good.
quote:
"The Palestinians have been denied a right of return to their homes, in breach of numerous United Nations resolutions and international law."
quote:
A quote from Israel’s former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon,
“Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.
These three quotes reflect to me what is the major problems of the Middle East, and If the region had no oil, and the arms trade was not such big business would Israel been such a powerfully destructive and distablising force in the Middle East.
The only way in my view Israel will be forced to heel is if sanctions are placed on her, just like was done to South Africa and this started with consumer boycotts.The same strategy can be applied here by consumers.
If one doesn;t agree with an administrations policy then one doesn;t have to invest in it.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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