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jambo
3300 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 17:56:06
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Traditonal and culture issues.
Tribal scarring is a violence against a women.
The ritual of bathing a dead man's body and the widow drinking the water.
The ritual of a widow having to sleep with her husbands male family members.
It is up to the individual, tribes, communities and regions to outlaw this. A prsident of country could outlaw this, but the practice would still happen. Akolo, and religious leaders have to stand up and speak out against these practices.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:03:42
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| SO where is the equality for wome in Islam if this is still happening?! |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:21:29
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| Jambo where did you get your sources from?BEV this is not ISLAM. |
There is no god but Allah |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:38:19
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This is not islam. TYou are confusing indegenous african culture with islam. Unfortunately this does not happen in an islamic society. No islam does not force you to marry. Yu have a right to choose. Howver, it is recommenede for a first marriage for the parents to be help. Howver, a woman who is divorced or widowed, is given full rights without hinderance of any sort, not even from the parents to choose for herself. There is no compulsion therfore to marry the husbands brothers. That is an african trdaition of old done mostly to preserve the family and protect the young children. Rememeber there was no social security or pension. The extended family was your security. I wrote extensively on this topic and as such i will just giv eit a passing.
Tribal scarring is not done by Women alone. Both male and females do it. These are tribal marks to recogniseeach other. Some have healing powers for some diseases. This is very obvious in the BUBA people of Sudaan, the TUKULOR also have a two strip on both sides just above the eyebrows for beautification, THE BAMABARA of mali aslo do it. Infact the men do it more outrageously than women. I HATE GENERALISATION. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW OUR CULTURE YOU NEED TO ASK. COMPARE LIKE WITH LIKE OTHERWISE YOU WILL NOT SEE THE CONTEXT IN WHICH IT IS DONE.
The bathing of dead body and the woman drinking the water is an animist ofrm of worship. Just like in ancient Egypt whe the pahroah is buried with people to help in the after life. It was mans quest for the after life and dealing with death which is still shroude in mystery. IT IS UNISLAMIC. If this practic eis still happening, it is unfortunate but not AN ISLAMIC RITUAL OR OBLIGATION.
THE ALKALOS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS AND THIS CULTURE IS NOT PRACTICED IN THE GAMBIA. Tribal marks is not violenec andis not unique to women alone. They are as old as history itself.
HOWEVER WHY HAVE YOU NOT CONDEMNED TONGUE, GENITAL, NOSE, EYEBROW PIERCING. IS THAT NOT SELF MUTILATION. PEOPLE EVEN PIERCE THEIR BELLIES NIPLES, ETC. If you live in a glass house do not throw stones |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:50:28
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In Gambia African culture and Islam combine. Religion is always practiced in a social context. One influences the other. I am not against cultural traditions as long as people choose freely to do it.
I am concerned that because of inequalities to women they may feel they have no choice to marry their deceased husbands brother for security. It may be African rather than Islamic tradition, I dont care which it is. I do care that it is degrading to women and people should be speaking out about it. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:54:19
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
Tribal marks is not violenec andis not unique to women alone. They are as old as history itself.
HOWEVER WHY HAVE YOU NOT CONDEMNED TONGUE, GENITAL, NOSE, EYEBROW PIERCING. IS THAT NOT SELF MUTILATION. PEOPLE EVEN PIERCE THEIR BELLIES NIPLES, ETC. If you live in a glass house do not throw stones
Right, Kondorong. And don't forget diets, poisonous hair-dying, high heels, tight corsages, etc. If I may add something personal: To my taste these marks very often look nice. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:09:22
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
In Gambia African culture and Islam combine. Religion is always practiced in a social context. One influences the other. I am not against cultural traditions as long as people choose freely to do it.
I am concerned that because of inequalities to women they may feel they have no choice to marry their deceased husbands brother for security. It may be African rather than Islamic tradition, I dont care which it is. I do care that it is degrading to women and people should be speaking out about it.
Even in 1776, women were not allowed to Vote in the United States or even own property. The earliest revolutions in Europe were led by women in France. YOU MANT TO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THE BREAD REVOLUTION IN FRANCE. UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE IS VERY NEW IN THE WEST UPTO 1940. WOMEN HARDLY OWNED PORPERTY, NEVER AND STILL DO NOT HAVE EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK. Have you heard of the galss Ceiling?
In Africa, women had been in power much earlier that th West. The types of Cleopatra, Queen Sheba, Empress of Ethipia and mother of Menelik son of King Solomon and so many countless ones. PLEASE FOR GODS SAKE, JUDGE US WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF OUR SOCIAL STRUCTURE AND NOT BASED ON WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT FOR US. WE DO NOT WANT PRSCRIPTION WHICH SEEM S TO BE PROBLEM WITH AFRICA. WE TAKE EVRYTHNG ON FACE VALUE AND DO NOT QUESTION.
Well in the US, for over 200 years of democracry, they could still not have a woman vice president let alone a president.
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:09:26
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| i just love bantaba, i NEVER MENTIONED ISLAM. |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:11:54
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| Bev you can be very negative sometimes,bline me read the Holy Quran and you will know what is Islam about.Do you need PSYCHOTROPIC drug as i can give you DIAZEPAM 10mg to relax u. |
There is no god but Allah |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:13:35
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| lemontime you crack me up. This issue is for african women it is only one of the topics on Violence against women. I am now posting the others. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:15:09
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
This is not islam. You are confusing indegenous african culture with islam. Unfortunately this does not happen in an islamic society. No. islam does not force you to marry. Yu have a right to choose. Howver, it is recommenede for a first marriage for the parents to be help. Howver, a woman who is divorced or widowed, is given full rights without hinderance of any sort, not even from the parents to choose for herself. There is no compulsion therfore to marry the husbands brothers. Infact there is never a force to marry your spouse's brother. You are encouraged to do so. ABSENTEE FATHERS IS NOT UNIQUE TO AFRICA. IT IS A GROWING SING OF OUR TIMES. That is an african trdaition of old done mostly to preserve the family and protect the young children. Rememeber there was no social security or pension. The extended family was your security. I wrote extensively on this topic and as such i will just giv eit a passing.
Tribal scarring is not done by Women alone. Both male and females do it. These are tribal marks to recogniseeach other. Some have healing powers for some diseases. This is very obvious in the NUBA people of Sudan, the TUKULOR also have a two strip on both sides just above the eyebrows for beautification, THE BAMBARA of mali aLso do it. Infact the men do it more outrageously than women. I HATE GENERALISATION. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW OUR CULTURE YOU NEED TO ASK. COMPARE LIKE WITH LIKE OTHERWISE YOU WILL NOT SEE THE CONTEXT IN WHICH IT IS DONE.
The bathing of dead body and the woman drinking the water is an animist form of worship. Just like in ancient Egypt whe the pahroah is buried with people to help in the after life. It was mans quest for the after life and dealing with death which is still shroude in mystery. IT IS UNISLAMIC. If this practice is still happening, it is unfortunate but not AN ISLAMIC RITUAL OR OBLIGATION. I have attend many burials but have never seen seen the water given to the widow to drink.
THE ALKALOS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS AND THIS CULTURE IS NOT PRACTICED IN THE GAMBIA. Tribal marks is not violenec andis not unique to women alone. They are as old as history itself.
HOWEVER WHY HAVE YOU NOT CONDEMNED TONGUE, GENITAL, NOSE, EYEBROW PIERCING. IS THAT NOT SELF MUTILATION. PEOPLE EVEN PIERCE THEIR BELLIES NIPLES, ETC. If you live in a glass house do not throw stones
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:16:11
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| YEA right Jambo bev mention Islam |
There is no god but Allah |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:18:56
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serenata, you are right about the things you mention, but i was only discussing things that were on the agenda.
Bantaba is just great, i have been away two weeks and have missed the art of this conversation. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:38:30
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We have a saying 'two wrongs dont make a right'! Just because there is still SOME injustice in USA or UK that doesnt give Africa an excuse to hide behind. What is wrong with taking the game forward and improving the rights of women in Gambia to be BETTER than the west. NOTHING would give me more pleasure than to see this happening!
Please don't think I am JUST anti Islam. I am anti anything that tries to hold women back and keep her 'barefoot and pregnant'.
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 19:53:27
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| Rights of women are improving slowly in The Gambia, as it was in usa and uk surly we will get there. |
There is no god but Allah |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 20:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by LEMON TIME
YEA right Jambo bev mention Islam
How about LORAZEPAM |
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