Bantaba in Cyberspace
Bantaba in Cyberspace
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ | Invite a friend
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Education Forum
 Gambia-L Archives from University of Washington
 gambia-l: LOG9711E - Digest 95
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
| More
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Momodou



Denmark
10540 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2021 :  15:16:39  Show Profile Send Momodou a Private Message  Reply with Quote
GAMBIA-L Digest 95

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) new member
by "Gassamaba omar" <kassama@hotmail.com>
2) mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report)
by "Jobst Münderlein" <joppl@hotmail.com>
3) (Fwd) Maladmnistration
by chakys@image.dk
4) Color again..
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
5) Re: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report)
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
6) Re: new member
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
7) Re: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report)
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
8) Re: Tragic death of a Gambian lady
by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
9) Fwd: Distance Learning Initiative in Ghana
by Andy Lyons <alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
10) Re: orbituary
by KTouray@aol.com
11) Re: Color again..
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
12) Brief introduction
by "fafanding fatajo" <ffatajo@hotmail.com>
13) Brief introduction
by "fafanding fatajo" <ffatajo@hotmail.com>
14) Re: orbituary
by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
15) Re: orbituary
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
16) Inquiry About Membership To The List
by BAKSAWA@aol.com
17) The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
18) Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate
by Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu>
19) Re: Color again..
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
20) Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
21) Re: Color again..
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
22) Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
23) Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
24) New members
by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
25) Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com>
26) Ditah( KESEMBEBAA)
by Sompo.Sinyan@udac.se (Sompo Sinyan)
27) Re: orbituary
by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
28) Re: orbituary
by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
29) Re: orbituary
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
30) Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
31) New members
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
32)
by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
33) Re: Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
34) Re: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA)
by "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
35) Re: color trouble..
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
36) Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate -Reply
by Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu>
37) appology
by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
38) Re: 50 Dalasi Notes On The Offer
by SAMBA NJIE <snjie@gis.net>
39) Hypocrisy or Ignorance......
by lamin marenah <keita@rocketmail.com>
40) Obituary
by SANG1220@aol.com
41) Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate -Reply
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
42) FW: Life Insurance (fwd)
by Compaq Customer <seela@oz.net>
43) Re: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA)APPOLOGY
by Sompo.Sinyan@udac.se (Sompo Sinyan)
44) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
45) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
46) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
by Abdoulie Dibba <adibba@online.no>
47) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
48) I ask for a one break.
by Said Quamar <Said.Quamar@Aviaplan.no>
49) Another act of terror
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
50) RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
by chakys@image.dk
51) When Intellectuals argue....
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
52) Coups and even more Coups
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
53) Observer Online Update...anyone?
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
54) What was Bill thinking?
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
55) Re: Observer Online Update...anyone?
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
56) New member
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
57) Re- quote of the day
by Gunjur@aol.com
58) Re: orbituary
by Mamadou S Jallow <bala@algonet.se>
59) Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements
by Gunjur@aol.com
60) Re: What was Bill thinking?
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
61) Re: Jainaba's NASTY& STINKY attitude!!!
by Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu>
62) Kuntaur Fullah kunda
by Gunjur@aol.com
63) wrong route
by Gunjur@aol.com
64) My take..........
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
65) Re: Obituary
by BAKSAWA@aol.com
66) My take as per private postings......
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
67) Re: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
68) Re: Obituary
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
69) Re:Introduction
by "EBRIMA JOBE" <jebrima@hotmail.com>
70) Color
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
71) Re: Another act of terror
by MJagana@aol.com
72) Re: Another act of terror
by Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu>
73) Re: Hypocrisy or Ignorance......
by MJagana@aol.com
74) Re: When Intellectuals argue....
by badjie karafa sw <badjiek@unixg.ubc.ca>
75) Re: My take..........
by "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no>
76) The slave house in Jangjanbureh (Georgetown)
by "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com>
77) Re: My take..........
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
78) new member
by Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca>
79) RE: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements
by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com>
80) Re: Another act of terror
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
81) Re: Kuntaur Fullah kunda
by Adama Cham <A.Cham@reading.ac.uk>
82) RE: White sports in White America....
by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
83) Re: Kuntaur Fullah kunda
by globexinc@erols.com
84) Re: Another act of terror
by globexinc@erols.com
85) Help...anyone?
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
86) Re: Hypocrisy or Ignorance......
by globexinc@erols.com
87) Re: Another act of terror
by globexinc@erols.com
88) Re: Obituary
by globexinc@erols.com
89) Re: Help...anyone?
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
90) Re: Obituary
by globexinc@erols.com
91) Re: When Intellectuals argue....
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
92) Re: When Intellectuals argue....
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
93) cab drivers's murder
by globexinc@erols.com
94) Had enough of Jai Diallo!
by Gunjur@aol.com
95) Re: Color
by Gunjur@aol.com
96) Re: Color
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
97) Slavehouse at Janjangbureh
by Gunjur@aol.com
98) Subscription
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
99) Liberia on the US
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
100) The Value of Time (fwd)
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
101) Re: The Value of Time (fwd)
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
102) Re: Subscription
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
103) Re: My take..........
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
104) Re: Subscription
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
105) Re: new member
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
106) RE: Color
by Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com>
107)
by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
108) Re: When Intellectuals argue.... -Reply
by Sukai Gaye <sg125909@gwmail.kysu.edu>
109) Had enough of Jai Diallo! -Reply
by Sukai Gaye <sg125909@gwmail.kysu.edu>
110) Re: Color
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
111) Re: Color
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
112) Re: My take..........
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
113) RE: White sports in White America....
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
114) Re: Liberia on the US
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
115) Re: color trouble..
by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com>
116) suggestion
by KTouray@aol.com
117) Re: color trouble..
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
118) Re:tragic death - Cash Reward
by MJawara@aol.com
119) Help!
by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
120) 1993 Census
by "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no>
121) Re: color trouble..
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
122) Subscription of New Member
by S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
123) Re: color trouble..
by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
124) Re: Subscription of New Member
by "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com>
125)
by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
126) Re: color trouble..
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
127) New Member
by "Gassamaba omar" <kassama@hotmail.com>
128) Re: suggestion
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
129) Re: tragic death - Cash Reward
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
130) Re: 1993 Census
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
131) Re: lets' do it
by fatima phall <fphall1@gl.umbc.edu>
132) Re: lets' do it
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
133) Re:
by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
134) Re: lets' do it
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
135) Re: lets' do it
by "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
136) Re: color trouble..
by "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
137) Re: lets' do it
by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
138) Education Committee Progress report
by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
139) Re: Subscription of New Member
by "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
140) Stop Subscription
by "Alieu Jobe" <Tokunor@worldnet.att.net>
141) Re: Subscription of New Member
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
142) Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
143) Re: Another act of terror
by MJagana@aol.com
144) Re: Another act of terror
by MJagana@aol.com
145) Re: suggestion
by KTouray@aol.com
146) Re: Another act of terror
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
147) RE : COLOUR TROUBLE
by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
148) RE: Another act of terror
by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
149) Re: Subscription of New Member
by "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
150) Color Debate
by Laura Munzel <lem10@columbia.edu>
151) Setting up foundation.
by Gunjur@aol.com
152) Lif insurance etc.
by Gunjur@aol.com
153) Junius' words
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
154) Re: color trouble..
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
155) Re: Junius' words
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
156) Re: Junius' words
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
157) Humor: Several for the weekend
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
158) Re: FYI
by Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
159) Re: lets' do it
by globexinc@erols.com
160) Re: lets' do it
by globexinc@erols.com
161) Re: Another act of terror
by globexinc@erols.com
162) Re: suggestion
by globexinc@erols.com
163) Re: Another act of terror
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
164) Re: Another act of terror
by globexinc@erols.com
165) Re: Setting up foundation.
by globexinc@erols.com
166) Re: Lif insurance etc.
by globexinc@erols.com
167) Re subscription
by "BOJANG,BUBA" <BBOJANG@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>
168) Re: Junius' words
by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
169) Re: Junius' words
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
170) Re: Junius' words
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
171) Another brother is down.....
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
172) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
173) "Operation Dirty Trick"
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
174) It's the economy, Narr
by "jgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
175) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
176) Re: Another brother is down.....
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
177) Re: lets' do it
by "Amadou L. Fall" <jambaar@enter.net>
178) Re: Another brother is down.....
by chakys@image.dk
179) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
180) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
181) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
182) Fwd: Subscription
by MJagana@aol.com
183) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
184) Re:Number for Habib
by KTouray@aol.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 00:52:02 PST
From: "Gassamaba omar" <kassama@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: new member
Message-ID: <19971116085203.15268.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear list managers,
Could anyone add Brother Alkali Bah to Gambia-L
<alkali_bah@hotmail.com>.
alabaraka


WAS SALAAM
gassama


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 04:19:32 PST
From: "Jobst Münderlein" <joppl@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report)
Message-ID: <19971116121933.15489.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Hello everybody,

I found this article in a big German newspaper. I translated it for
everyone and I wonder if this news has spread around the world. What do
you think of it?

(Frankfurter Rundschau, Mittwoch den 12.11.1997, S. 2)

Mobutus Gold in Gambia?

Bonn (afp). Reporter des ZDF-MAgazins „Kennzeichen D“ haben nach Angaben
der Redaktion im westafrikanischen Gambia einen Teil des Goldschatzes
des früheren zairischen Diktators Mobutu Sese Seko aufgespürt.
Mindestens sechs Tonnen Gold in einem Gesamtwert von 90 Millionen
US-Dollar lägen in Gambia, erklärte die Redaktion am Dienstag. Den
Angaben zufolge soll der Goldschatz, der insgesamt 100 Tonnen umfaßte,
1994 aus Zaire nach Gambia gebracht worden sein.

Translation:
Mobutus gold in The Gambia?

Bonn (afp). Reporters of the German TV-magazin „Kennzeichen D“ (public
channel ZDF) have detected a part of the gold treasure of former
dictator from Zaire Mobutu Sese Seko in westafrican Gambia according to
the editorial office. At least six tons worth 90 Million US Dollar are
in the Gambia the editors declared on Tuesday. According to their
release the gold treasure, that is amounts to 100 tons, was brought to
the Gambia in 1994 from Zaire.
(Frankfurter Rundschau, Wednesday, 12.11.1997, p. 2)


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:43:35 +0200
From: chakys@image.dk
To: "GAMBIA-L. The Gambia and Related Issues Maling List"<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: (Fwd) Maladmnistration
Message-ID: <199711161243.NAA02987@mail.image.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable

Forwarded message:
From: Self <Single-user mode>
To: gambian-@u.washington.edu
Subject: Maladmnistration
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:44:00 +0200

Hello to the L-ers,
I hope the list doesn't mind a step backward to deal again with our
leaders maladroit management.
I got some statistics from UD & SE (DSB bladet) a danish national
railway' periodical magazine p.66 which took the information in
Jyllandsposten (a daily newspaper) and L'Thetavenement du jeudi (french
newspaper). The article is about african dictatorship leaders money
abroad. The standpoint is the african charity begins abroad.
Of course who keeps longer his power , get richer:
Felix Houphoudeltat Boigny got 4o billions danish crown (1 US dollar =
6 DKK) . The former nigerian dictator Ibrahim Babangida 34 billion
DKK. Joseph -DesirTheta Mobutu 23 billions .The actual ivorian president
follows Mobutu with 2 billions and Moshood Abiola 1,2 billion. M
Haile Mariam about 1,2 billions and then Paul Biya from Cameroon with
500 millions.
All this shows that by our leaders fault & lack of national feeling ,
we missed the welfare in Africa. Africa doesn't deserve to be seen as
anger continent if our leaders stop being corrupted. We have
ressources to to throw all those anathema.
Nice week-end to everybody.
Chakys.

P:S May our sister soul rest in peace. Codolence to all the family.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Color again..
Message-ID: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit


Gambia-L.
Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc.
A short comment.
My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails
regarding my postings on color.
However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color" is what we call in
my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor).
How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?!
If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" people,
I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?

Just look(capital letters are mine):

>BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????

>...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a
>time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy
>on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE
>man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I
>need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the
>championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good
>collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the
>dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years
>masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I
>think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but
>hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.

>...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports
>and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of
>them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK
>sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a
>fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the
>idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football.
>Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy
>has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball
>skills than being drafted into the NFL.

> FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...
>The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why
>some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey.
>A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound
>familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person
>and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee
>jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people
>perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How
>about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?
>Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm
>sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are
>WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever
>see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if
>WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know?

>So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will.
>Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have
>my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on
>the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last
>physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get to the
>economics one day), then its okay with me.
>Cheers,
>Torstein.

Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like brainwashing....

For me it is simple.
Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it only creates
bad blood among humans.
So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and "WHITE"????
My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more,
regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a mesurement of people.

As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white" I will keep
my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black color racism".

Best Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:54:32 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report)
Message-ID: <19971116165443.AAA8550@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT

Hi Jobst,
The Gambian government denied on Thursday any knowledge of hordes of
gold reportedly stashed on the territory by former Zairean dictator
Mobutu Sese Seko.

A government statement said that "the government of the Gambia and in
particular the central bank wish to make it abundantly clear that as
far as it is concerned, that there is absolutely no evidence that
such gold has been deposited in the country's banking system or
anywhere else in the Gambia." It added: "The government of the
Gambia and the central bank would be most obliged if anyone can
render any information which could lead to any trace of any gold
deposit allegedly belonging to deceased president Mobutu."



On 16 Nov 97 at 4:19, Jobst M³nderlein wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> I found this article in a big German newspaper. I translated it for
> everyone and I wonder if this news has spread around the world. What
> do you think of it?
>
> (Frankfurter Rundschau, Mittwoch den 12.11.1997, S. 2)
>
> Mobutus Gold in Gambia?
>
> Bonn (afp). Reporter des ZDF-MAgazins äKennzeichen Dô haben nach
> Angaben der Redaktion im westafrikanischen Gambia einen Teil des
> Goldschatzes des fr³heren zairischen Diktators Mobutu Sese Seko
> aufgesp³rt. Mindestens sechs Tonnen Gold in einem Gesamtwert von 90
> Millionen US-Dollar lõgen in Gambia, erklõrte die Redaktion am
> Dienstag. Den Angaben zufolge soll der Goldschatz, der insgesamt 100
> Tonnen umfa¯te, 1994 aus Zaire nach Gambia gebracht worden sein.
>
> Translation:
> Mobutus gold in The Gambia?
>
> Bonn (afp). Reporters of the German TV-magazin äKennzeichen Dô
> (public channel ZDF) have detected a part of the gold treasure of
> former dictator from Zaire Mobutu Sese Seko in westafrican Gambia
> according to the editorial office. At least six tons worth 90
> Million US Dollar are in the Gambia the editors declared on Tuesday.
> According to their release the gold treasure, that is amounts to 100
> tons, was brought to the Gambia in 1994 from Zaire. (Frankfurter
> Rundschau, Wednesday, 12.11.1997, p. 2)
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:07:38 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: new member
Message-ID: <19971116170749.AAA8670@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Greetings,
Alikali Bah has been added to the list. Welcome to the Bantaba
Alikali, we look forward to your contributions. You can send a
brief introduction to gambia-l@u.washington.edu

regards
Momodou Camara

On 16 Nov 97 at 0:52, Gassamaba omar wrote:

> Dear list managers,
> Could anyone add Brother Alkali Bah to Gambia-L
> <alkali_bah@hotmail.com>.
> alabaraka
>
>
> WAS SALAAM
> gassama
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:39:25 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report)
Message-ID: <01bcf2b6$950da3c0$f52385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-6"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Jobst!
Yes,the news has spread all over the place now.All my friends
are are teasing me that maybe I should pack my bags and head for the
Gambia,since its apparent that Mr. Jammeh has no intention of returning the
stolen gold back to the Zairean people.

Regards Bassss!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jobst Münderlein <joppl@hotmail.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: 16/ÑÌÈ/1418 09:18 ã
Subject: mobutus gold in Gambia ( atranslated newpaper report)


>Hello everybody,
>
>I found this article in a big German newspaper. I translated it for
>everyone and I wonder if this news has spread around the world. What do
>you think of it?
>
>(Frankfurter Rundschau, Mittwoch den 12.11.1997, S. 2)
>
>Mobutus Gold in Gambia?
>
>Bonn (afp). Reporter des ZDF-MAgazins „Kennzeichen D“ haben nach Angaben
>der Redaktion im westafrikanischen Gambia einen Teil des Goldschatzes
>des früheren zairischen Diktators Mobutu Sese Seko aufgespürt.
>Mindestens sechs Tonnen Gold in einem Gesamtwert von 90 Millionen
>US-Dollar lägen in Gambia, erklärte die Redaktion am Dienstag. Den
>Angaben zufolge soll der Goldschatz, der insgesamt 100 Tonnen umfaßte,
>1994 aus Zaire nach Gambia gebracht worden sein.
>
>Translation:
>Mobutus gold in The Gambia?
>
>Bonn (afp). Reporters of the German TV-magazin „Kennzeichen D“ (public
>channel ZDF) have detected a part of the gold treasure of former
>dictator from Zaire Mobutu Sese Seko in westafrican Gambia according to
>the editorial office. At least six tons worth 90 Million US Dollar are
>in the Gambia the editors declared on Tuesday. According to their
>release the gold treasure, that is amounts to 100 tons, was brought to
>the Gambia in 1994 from Zaire.
>(Frankfurter Rundschau, Wednesday, 12.11.1997, p. 2)
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:58:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Tragic death of a Gambian lady
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971116135443.17363A-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



Malanding: Thanks for that timely response. I have been able to get in
contact with the sister.

It seems like we are ready to go public with our proposal. I
have a couple more minor suggestions and I will send them to you before
the deadline date.

thanks musa


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:30:55 -0500
From: Andy Lyons <alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Distance Learning Initiative in Ghana
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971116193055.3df77e58@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Since the topic of how developing countries such as The Gambia can best make
use of technology to improve education and development, I thought some
members of the list might be interested in the efforts being undertaken in
Ghana. My apologies if this has been posted already. Andy

>Welcome to ghaclad-scope listserv.
>
>Project SCOPE Incorporated, a Boston-based nonprofit developer of
>telecenters worldwide to deliver
>education and training, is pleased to announce ghaclad-scope, a listserv
>created to discuss the issues and challenges related to the Ghana Distance
>Education Project, an initiative begun in 1996, jointly sponsored by the
>Voluntary Workcamps Association of Ghana (VOLU) and Operation Crossroads
>Africa and driven by an informal volunteer advisory committee consisting of
>members from Ghana, US, Europe, the global academic community and Ghanian
>ISP's.
>
>The initiatives of the Ghana Distance Education Project are as follows:
>
>1) To explore means of utilizing computers, telecommunications, audio/visual
>media and information technology to enhance primary, secondary, tertiary,
>vocational, professional development and continuing adult education
>in Ghana;
>2) To strengthen the capacity of grassroots organizations, low-income
>communities and local schools to initiate, choose, plan and manage their own
>self-help projects through information technology and telecommunications;
>3) To create a demonstration effect on public opinion in terms of what
>information technology, electronic networking and community-based computing
>can offer for national and international development;
>4) To increase awareness of how the computer and electronic connectivity can
>re-orient youth groups toward the economy and labor market of the 21st
>century; and
>5) To foster opportunities for youth from the US and Europe to engage in
>"service learning" providing computer literacy instruction to Ghanian
>participants and technical assistance to the Project as they learn about
>Ghanian culture and society.
>
>The primary focus of the listserv's activity will consist of news and
>discussion relating directly to the Ghana Distance Education Project and its
>technical and administrative needs. Anyone can join; however, we ask only
>that you introduce yourself to the list members when you subscribe.
>
>Project SCOPE will archive material ultimately at
>http://www.projectscope.org and develop a database of resources generated as
>a result of the ghaclad-scope discussions. Thank you for joining us, and we
>welcome your participation and your involving others in the listserv who
>would benefit from and contribute to the
>discussion process.
>
>Carolyn Manjourides, President
>Project SCOPE Incorporated
>25 Huntington Avenue, Suite 331, Boston, MA 02116 USA
>(617)424-1121 Tel/Days (617)262-1929 Tel/Eves (617)437-9329 FAX
>cmanjourides@projectscope.org E-mail
>http://www.projectscope.org Website
>

To subscribe to ghaclad-scope, send an email to:
Majordomo@igc.org

with the following command in the body of your email message:
subscribe ghaclad-scope

===============================================================
Andy Lyons The Gambia Resource Page
alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu http://grove.ufl.edu/~alyons
===============================================================


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:03:29 -0500 (EST)
From: KTouray@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: orbituary
Message-ID: <971116160328_902589508@mrin79>

Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he
is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for
a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his
younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back
to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so
at the following address:

Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased)

5606 Floyd Apt 1A
Overland Park
Kansas 66206

May his soul rest in peace


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:09:47 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Color again..
Message-ID: <19971116230947.28313.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Tostitos,

Just to let you know, I feel a bit reluctant in dignifying you with a
reply. You really seem to be a White dude with an attitude eh!!! I was
asked a question to which I replied. Got a problem with that???? I am in
no mood for a fight...still mourning over the recent deaths of two
Gambians.

So if you are spoiling for a fight - which I suspect is your motive -
please say so, the arena is all yours. Enjoy the fight. And please let
me know when you are done. I wish you success in the fight.

Jainaba.
BTW, my last name is Diallo NOT Jiallos!!!!!!!!







>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:59:28 PST
From: "fafanding fatajo" <ffatajo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Brief introduction
Message-ID: <19971117015928.11357.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear Camara and core,
My name is Fafanding s Fatajo ( F.S.Fatajo) from Sallikenni Village
Cntral Baddibou North Bank Division.
I am currently studying in Malaysia.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:01:50 PST
From: "fafanding fatajo" <ffatajo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Brief introduction
Message-ID: <19971117020150.4021.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear Camara and core,
My name is Fafanding s Fatajo ( F.S.Fatajo) from Sallikenni Village
Cntral Baddibou North Bank Division.
I am currently studying in Malaysia.
Thank you very much for including me in the Gambia List.
Best of luck.
Fafanding.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:03:23 -0500 (EST)
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: orbituary
Message-ID: <199711170203.VAA03079@oak.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text

>
> Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he
> is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for
> a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his
> younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back
> to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so
> at the following address:
>
> Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased)
>
> 5606 Floyd Apt 1A
> Overland Park
> Kansas 66206
>
> May his soul rest in peace
>
>
May his Soul rest in peace.

Malanding jaiteh

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:15:26 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: orbituary
Message-ID: <9711170215.AA37980@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Mr. Touray, you wrote:

> Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he
> is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for
> a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his
> younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back
> to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so
> at the following address:
>
> Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased)
>
> 5606 Floyd Apt 1A
> Overland Park
> Kansas 66206
>
> May his soul rest in peace

Thank you very much for informing the list and I hope that all of us will
assist in whatever way we can.

May his soul rest in peace... Amen

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:27:44 -0500 (EST)
From: BAKSAWA@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Inquiry About Membership To The List
Message-ID: <971116212743_902618822@mrin42.mail.aol.com>

List Managers:

Several weeks ago, I requested membership on behalf of my brother Adama Sey,
to the List.

I do not remember reading a posting confirming his membership. If he has
not been added, I would appreciate your considering him as a member. His
e-maile address is:

as2eng@bolton.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 07:03:05 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <Gambia-L@U.Washington.Edu>
Subject: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
Message-ID: <01bcf30d$d4a77540$852185c2@q-tel.qatar.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BCF326.F9F4AD40"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BCF326.F9F4AD40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Torstein!
I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve =
your right not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get =
carried away with our this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables =
on us(your changing of the words Black for White in the article below) =
you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on either inflicting or =
feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance all the way.So,defend =
your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these black people make you =
feel guilty of offences committed by other whites.

And keep up the good work down there!

Regards Bassss!

Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa =
(SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 =
-0300)
id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with =
SMTP
id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800
Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu =
[140.142.32.7])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with =
ESMTP
id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 =
05:17:23 -0800
Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8])
by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with =
ESMTP
id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 =
05:17:21 -0800
Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by =
mail1.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)
with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov =
1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET)
Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by =
mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)
with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov =
1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET)
Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>;
Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000
Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000
Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" =
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Color again..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit

Gambia-L.
Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc.
A short comment.
My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails
regarding my postings on color.
However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color" =
is what we call in
my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor).
How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?!
If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" =
people,
I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?
Just look(capital letters are mine):
=20
>BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????
>...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a=20
>time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy =

>on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE=20
>man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I=20
>need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the =

>championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good=20
>collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what =
the=20
>dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years=20
>masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I=20
>think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but=20
>hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.
>...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE =
sports=20
>and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of=20
>them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK=20
>sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a=20
>fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the=20
>idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football. =20
>Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy=20
>has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball =

>skills than being drafted into the NFL.=20
> FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...
>The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why
>some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey.
>A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound
>familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person
>and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee
>jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people
>perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How=20
>about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?=20
>Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm=20
>sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there =
are=20
>WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever =

>see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if =

>WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know?
>So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never =
will.=20
>Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have
>my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on
>the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last
>physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get =
to the=20
>economics one day), then its okay with me.
>Cheers,
>Torstein.
Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like =
brainwashing....
For me it is simple.
Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it =
only creates
bad blood among humans.
So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and =
"WHITE"????
My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more,=20
regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a =
mesurement of people.
As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as =
"white" I will keep
my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black =
color racism".
Best Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia=20



------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BCF326.F9F4AD40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Torstein!</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>          &nbs=
p; I=20
think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve your right not =
only to=20
feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried away with our =
this=20
black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing of the =
words=20
Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us that nobody =
has a=20
monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with =
your=20
stance all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of =
these=20
black people make you feel guilty of offences committed by other=20
whites.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>And keep up the good work down=20
there!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>          &nbs=
p;            =
;            =
            &=
nbsp;       =20
Regards Bassss!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Return-Path: <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu">GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washingt=
on.edu</A>><BR>Received:=20
from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa=20
(SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail  It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 =
16:13:03=20
-0300)<BR> id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300<BR>Received: =
from host=20
(lists.u.washington.edu=20
[140.142.56.13])<BR>         =
; by=20
lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with =
SMTP<BR>  =20
id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800<BR>Received: from=20
mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu=20
[140.142.32.7])<BR>         =
by=20
lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with =
ESMTP<BR>  =20
id FAA36978 for <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu">gambia-l@lists.u.washingt=
on.edu</A>>;=20
Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:23 -0800<BR>Received: from mail1.sn.no (<A=20
href=3D"mailto:0@mail1.sn.no">0@mail1.sn.no</A>=20
[194.143.8.8])<BR>          =
by=20
mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with =
ESMTP<BR>   id=20
FAA09534 for <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g=
t;; Sun,=20
16 Nov 1997 05:17:21 -0800<BR>Received: from mail2.sn.no (<A=20
href=3D"mailto:0@mail2.sn.no">0@mail2.sn.no</A> [194.143.8.114]) by =
mail1.sn.no=20
(8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)<BR> with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g=
t;; Sun,=20
16 Nov 1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET)<BR>Received: from mail2.sn.no=20
(t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by mail2.sn.no =
(8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)<BR>=20
with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g=
t;; Sun,=20
16 Nov 1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET)<BR>Received: from west.EARTH =
(149.212.100.111)=20
by south.commit.gm<BR> (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:B0000016604@south.commit.gm">B0000016604@south.commit.gm</=
A>>;<BR>=20
Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000<BR>Message-Id: <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:B0000016604@south.commit.gm">B0000016604@south.commit.gm</=
A>><BR>Date:=20
Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000<BR>Reply-To: <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g=
t;<BR>Sender:=20
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu">GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washingt=
on.edu</A><BR>Precedence:=20
bulk<BR>From: "<A =
href=3D"mailto:tgr@commit.gm">tgr@commit.gm</A>"=20
<<A =
href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@commit.gm">gambia-l@commit.gm</A>><BR>To:=20
"GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g=
t;<BR>Subject:=20
Color again..<BR>MIME-Version: 1.0<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: =
7bit<BR>X-To:=20
"gambia-l" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>&g=
t;<BR>X-MSMail-Priority:=20
Normal<BR>X-Priority: 3<BR>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta --=20
ListProcessor(tm) by CREN<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;=20
charset=3DISO-8859-1</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" =
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:tgr@commit.gm">tgr@commit.gm</A>><BR> via=20
Commit</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><BR>Gambia-L.<BR>Regarding =
"tiger=20
woods" posting etc.<BR>A short comment.<BR>My regards to =
Mr.Bassirou and=20
the others for well written mails<BR>regarding my postings on =
color.<BR>However=20
I still really believe that this emphasis on =
"white/black/color" is=20
what we call in<BR>my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears=20
favor).<BR>How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people =
are=20
called "black"?!<BR>If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos =
wrote but in=20
"favor" of "White" people,<BR>I believe I would get =
some=20
angry mails back?!?</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Just look(capital letters are=20
mine):<BR>      <BR>>BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK=20
AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>>...What I liked was the fact =
that despite=20
the fact that once upon a <BR>>time in the good old US of A, seeing a =
WHITE=20
person who was not a caddy <BR>>on  a golf course was like =
seeing a=20
normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE <BR>>man is really kicking ass on =
national tv...=20
on a golf course. Hey, I <BR>>need another budweiser to celebrate =
Mannn!!!=20
Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the <BR>>championship (the Augusta masters) =
and was=20
told to prepare some good <BR>>collard greens, chicken etc..(soul =
food..yeah,=20
I think that was what the <BR>>dude was refering to) when he takes =
the=20
participants of next years <BR>>masters out. BTW, have you folks seen =
Soul=20
Food (the movie) yet??? I <BR>>think it is the best WHITE movie  =
ever=20
produced...bold statement, but <BR>>hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! =
O.K, Okay=20
back to sports.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>>...So I thought and I thought =
and I=20
thought.  Why are there WHITE sports <BR>>and BLACK =
sports?  What=20
are the WHITE sports?  Basketball is one of <BR>>them.  =
It's=20
dominated by WHITES.  That's a fact.  What are the BLACK=20
<BR>>sports?  Hockey is one of them.  It's dominated by=20
BLACKS.  That's a <BR>>fact.  There are several in-between =
sports,=20
such that reflect the <BR>>idealistic "melting pot" theory =
of=20
America. You know, like Football.  <BR>>Yeah, football, were a =
WHITE=20
quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy <BR>>has a greater chance of =
being=20
drafted into the NBA if he has basketball <BR>>skills than being =
drafted into=20
the NFL. </FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>>       =20
FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...<BR>>The historical basis for many of =
these=20
sports will explain why<BR>>some are dominated by one ethnic =
group. =20
Take for instance hockey.<BR>>A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE =
puck, with=20
sticks. Sound<BR>>familiar?  How about bungee jumping?  Tie =
a rope=20
around a person<BR>>and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a =
WHITE=20
person bungee<BR>>jump (mindful of his history) and not be =
nervous? =20
Man, these people<BR>>perfected that "sport" on us, now you =
expect=20
us to bungee jump? How <BR>>about horseback riding? Let's not even go =
there.=20
Shall we continue? <BR>>Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la =
the=20
America's cup).  I'm <BR>>sure you see where this is going. =
Sailing,=20
sailing, that's why there are <BR>>WHITE people here in north america =
in the=20
first place.  And do you ever <BR>>see a WHITE man in the =
American swim=20
team (at the olympics)?  Shoot, if <BR>>WE could swim WE =
wouldn't be=20
here no how.  You know?</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>>So go ahead Mr. Tiger =
Woods.  I don't=20
know you, and probably never will. <BR>>Don't know what you stand =
for,=20
probably don't care. I have<BR>>my own troubles to deal with.  =
But every=20
now and then, when I turn on<BR>>the TV and see a WHITE man kicking =
ass on a=20
golf course--the last<BR>>physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) =
supremacist=20
mentality (we'll get to the <BR>>economics one day), then its okay =
with=20
me.<BR>>Cheers,<BR>>Torstein.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's=20
almost like brainwashing....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>For me it is simple.<BR>Everybody =
says that=20
europeans started the color separation and that it only creates<BR>bad =
blood=20
among humans.<BR>So why are everybody pounding on that everything is=20
"BLACK" and "WHITE"????<BR>My belief is that to =
continue on=20
this track will only divide more, <BR>regardless if it is a=20
African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a mesurement of=20
people.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>As a person with a physical =
apperance that some=20
people defines as "white" I will keep<BR>my right to be just =
as=20
offended by "white color harrasment" than "black color=20
racism".</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Best Regards,<BR>Torstein<BR>The =
Gambia=20
</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2><BR></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BCF326.F9F4AD40--


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:36:06 -0600
From: Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate
Message-ID: <s46f7588.058@wpo.it.luc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline

Hi folks,

I have been wondering what purpose the Gambian consulate serves. It
is my understanding that when contacted, the consulate indicated that
funds are not available to help in sending the corpse home. Can you
imagine that? What use is a consulate that cannot provide help to its
citizens at a time like this? This is the million-dollar question.



Ndey Kumba

>>> <BAKSAWA@aol.com> 11/15/97 05:30pm >>>
Dear List Members:


The above named Gambian is currently in a comma, and hooked on a life
support
system in Overlandpark, Kansas. The doctors have pronounced him
"brain-dead", and the life support system is expected to be
disconnected on
Monday, November 17, 1997. The family's wish is to transport the
corpse to
The Gambia. Donations of any kind are critically needed at this time.
You
may contact:

Momodou Sireh Jallow (Alieu's younger brother)
and
Rose Oshaia
at
ADDRESS: 5606 Floyd, #1A
Overlandpark, Kansas 66202
TELEPHONE: (913) 262-4778

Alieu is the son of Ndey Jeng and Ousainou Jallow - originally from
Basse,
Upper River Division, but currently living in the Serrekunda area.

Thanks in advance for your help.


Awa Sey


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 02:26:16 -0000
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Color again..
Message-ID: <B0000016852@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit


Gambia-L.

My apologies for wrongly spelling
the name Jainaba Diallo.

Torstein
The Gambia




------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:53:20 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate
Message-ID: <19971117065320.12522.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Ndey Kumba,

Eventhough this is an emotional issue, I think the million-dollar
question should be: Do you expect the Gambian consulate to provide all
the needs of all Gambians in that locality??? We already have an
"organization" in gambia-l that I presume, can come together in such
times and raise funds.

Remember that the consulate gets its funds from a government that has
very little to offer. If they said that they don't have the necessary
funds, what else do you expect?? They should print more money, like Idi
Amin Dada???

Folks, I think talking is cheap!!! It is time for us all to put up or
shut up (excuse my style...no offence intended)...we shouldn't expect
the government to do everything for us. Lets help the families in need.

Have a great week!

Jainaba.
*********************************************************************
>Hi folks,
>
>I have been wondering what purpose the Gambian consulate serves. It
>is my understanding that when contacted, the consulate indicated that
>funds are not available to help in sending the corpse home. Can you
>imagine that? What use is a consulate that cannot provide help to its
>citizens at a time like this? This is the million-dollar question.
>
>
>
>Ndey Kumba









______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 23:01:52 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Color again..
Message-ID: <19971117070152.27751.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Gambia-l,

My apologies for wrongly spelling the name Torstein...I spelt it as
Tostitos in my previous posting on this thread (see header).

Jainaba Ousmane Diallo
Beautiful Vancouver.
**********************************************************************
>Gambia-L.
>
>My apologies for wrongly spelling
>the name Jainaba Diallo.
>
>Torstein
>The Gambia






______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 23:46:17 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal
Message-ID: <19971117074617.3737.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Folks,

Here we go again....
When will this insanity STOP???????? America oh America, the only
remaining superpower, world's most industralised nation and democracy,
and a real GANGTERS PARADISE. I Hail thee!!!

Very very moving...

Later....

Jainaba.
**********************************************************************
November 17, 1997

Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal

By MICHAEL COOPER

[I] n his last phone call home to his mother in
Senegal, Elhadji Gaye promised to return for a
visit soon. It had been 11 years since he left his
family behind to seek his fortune in New York, and
he had not been back once.

"His mother was becoming very impatient," Gaye's
nephew, Omar Gaye, said yesterday in a telephone
interview from Senegal. "She told him the last
time that they spoke that life is not eternal and
that 10 years without seeing him is a long, long
time."

Now the homecoming will be a somber one. Gaye, who
made a living as a livery-cab driver, died at 33
on Friday after he was shot to death by two young
women who tried to rob him after he picked them up
in his taxi, the police said. The women belonged
to the Bloods gang, the police said.

"I am in a state of shock," his mother, Diama
Ngallame, 75, said through a translator. "It is
still very difficult to believe it. Is this a
dream? I cannot believe it still. Can life really
be this cruel?"

She wept. In the courtyard of her home, in a
village near Kaolack in the center of Senegal,
relatives gathered to grieve. They are waiting for
Elhadji Gaye's body to be flown back for the
funeral. They spoke about plans for Muslim
memorials on the eighth day and the 40th day after
his death.

"Times are very difficult here," said his nephew
Omar Gaye, a university student studying physics
and chemistry. "He was the pillar of our family.
The source of our very subsistence. He was paying
my studies and contributing to the family's
monthly budget.

You can probably imagine that this was a very hard
loss for us all."

Elhadji Gaye was one of nine children. His father
died 20 years ago. He immigrated to New York 11
years ago to find work and lived in a
three-bedroom apartment on Edgecombe Avenue in
Harlem with four other immigrants from West
Africa. Since 1993 he has been a driver for New
Ways car service, driving from 7 P.M. to 7 A.M.
After paying for gas, friends said, he made about
$40 a night.

"He would call most every Sunday," Omar Gaye said.
"He would mostly talk about family problems. He
said fairly little about life in New York -- 'I'm
getting along fine, don't worry about me.' He used
to tell me to keep working, to be honest, don't
let anyone lead you astray. He would give us
advice like that."

In recent months, friends in New York said, Gaye
had taken to carrying a photograph of a slender
woman wearing a white blouse, her braided hair
draped with beads. He told people she was his
fiancee, a woman from Senegal whom he had courted
by phone and proposed to three months ago. Family
members in Senegal said that he had yet to tell
them about the woman when he died.

Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 00:27:35 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal
Message-ID: <19971117082736.19120.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Folks,

Here we go again.....

When will this insanity STOP?????? America Oh America, the only
remaining superpower, the world's most industralised nation and
democracy and a real GANGSTER'S PARADISE. I hail Thee.......

Very sad indeed.

Later...

Jainaba.
PS: thought I sent this mail earlier, if so, sorry for the duplication.
*********************************************************************

>> November 17, 1997
>>
>> Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal
>>
>> By MICHAEL COOPER
>>
>> [I] n his last phone call home to his mother in
>> Senegal, Elhadji Gaye promised to return for a
>> visit soon. It had been 11 years since he left his
>> family behind to seek his fortune in New York, and
>> he had not been back once.
>>
>> "His mother was becoming very impatient," Gaye's
>> nephew, Omar Gaye, said yesterday in a telephone
>> interview from Senegal. "She told him the last
>> time that they spoke that life is not eternal and
>> that 10 years without seeing him is a long, long
>> time."
>>
>> Now the homecoming will be a somber one. Gaye, who
>> made a living as a livery-cab driver, died at 33
>> on Friday after he was shot to death by two young
>> women who tried to rob him after he picked them up
>> in his taxi, the police said. The women belonged
>> to the Bloods gang, the police said.
>>
>> "I am in a state of shock," his mother, Diama
>> Ngallame, 75, said through a translator. "It is
>> still very difficult to believe it. Is this a
>> dream? I cannot believe it still. Can life really
>> be this cruel?"
>>
>> She wept. In the courtyard of her home, in a
>> village near Kaolack in the center of Senegal,
>> relatives gathered to grieve. They are waiting for
>> Elhadji Gaye's body to be flown back for the
>> funeral. They spoke about plans for Muslim
>> memorials on the eighth day and the 40th day after
>> his death.
>>
>> "Times are very difficult here," said his nephew
>> Omar Gaye, a university student studying physics
>> and chemistry. "He was the pillar of our family.
>> The source of our very subsistence. He was paying
>> my studies and contributing to the family's
>> monthly budget.
>>
>> You can probably imagine that this was a very hard
>> loss for us all."
>>
>> Elhadji Gaye was one of nine children. His father
>> died 20 years ago. He immigrated to New York 11
>> years ago to find work and lived in a
>> three-bedroom apartment on Edgecombe Avenue in
>> Harlem with four other immigrants from West
>> Africa. Since 1993 he has been a driver for New
>> Ways car service, driving from 7 P.M. to 7 A.M.
>> After paying for gas, friends said, he made about
>> $40 a night.
>>
>> "He would call most every Sunday," Omar Gaye said.
>> "He would mostly talk about family problems. He
>> said fairly little about life in New York -- 'I'm
>> getting along fine, don't worry about me.' He used
>> to tell me to keep working, to be honest, don't
>> let anyone lead you astray. He would give us
>> advice like that."
>>
>> In recent months, friends in New York said, Gaye
>> had taken to carrying a photograph of a slender
>> woman wearing a white blouse, her braided hair
>> draped with beads. He told people she was his
>> fiancee, a woman from Senegal whom he had courted
>> by phone and proposed to three months ago. Family
>> members in Senegal said that he had yet to tell
>> them about the woman when he died.
>>
>> Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 01:59:20 PST
From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New members
Message-ID: <19971117095920.27130.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear List manager,

The following people want to be included in The gambia List. They are

Bukhari Sillah << bsillah@hotmail.com >>

Arona John << aronajohn@hotmail.com >>

Your usual co-operation once agin is highly solicited.

Sillah Conateh.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 07:02:59 -0500
From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
Message-ID: <34703273.F5BF76C2@mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8AAAA2E324267BE6CD57EC74"


--------------8AAAA2E324267BE6CD57EC74
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Good day Mr. Torstein, Mr. Drammeh, and all Gambia-Lers,

Now I think this "Question f Colour" is getting to the point of the
ridiculous. I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in
one's people be source of irritation for someone else???? And then, why
should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively
identify? If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride
or the expression of a positive Black identity, then I suggest that is
his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to resolve. Why
Mr. Drammeh would give support for this type of brooding is beyond me.
Would either of you also condemn women who express pride in their
sisters across the world who have accomplished something of merit and
gotten local, national, or international publicity for it? Or would you
condemn Gambians across the world, when a fellow Gambian achieved
something great and other Gambians expressed pride in this achievement?
After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some
group in the world. The Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride
expressed on a national level. Are the Olympics, or the type of pride
which the Olympics foster wrong?

Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always
felt threatened when Black people express pride in themselves. And,
even though Mr. Torstein likes to draw a distinction between himself and
other White people, in this respect, he shows himself to be No
Different. For Black people to express this type of pride is not
demeaning to others, as both of you would suggest, but rather, is the
result of numerous historical processes. If I express a love for my
wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The Torstein argument
is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from
White people of various backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a
number of "liberal" Black folks, as to why there should be, for
instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question
is, all things being equal, that there should not be such programs.
However, as we all know, All Things Are Not Equal! These programs, as
well as the expression of Black pride are the historic result of the
exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the
larger arena. Now, when Black people get a voice, you try to silence
that voice, on the alleged basis of being offensive to some people?
Here we fall into the same cycle of silencing those who have
traditionally had no voice!!! Although, I would affirm Mr. Torstein's
right to express his unhappiness at these events, I understand that
unhappiness, am unsympathetic toward the reason for that malaise, and
even feel that I have the right and the obligation to express my outrage
at this display of paternalism (for that is how I see it!)

I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the
past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted
with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at
this point.

I do hope that everyone has a good day.

M W Payne

Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote:

> Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and entitled
> to reserve your right not only to feel offended but to fight back
> whenever we get carried away with our this black-and-proud songs.By
> turning the tables on us(your changing of the words Black for White in
> the article below) you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on
> either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance
> all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these
> black people make you feel guilty of offences committed by other
> whites. And keep up the good work down
> there! Regards
> Bassss! Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
> Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa
> (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03
> -0300)
> id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300
> Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
> by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05)
> with SMTP
> id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800
> Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu
> [140.142.32.7])
> by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with
> ESMTP
> id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997
> 05:17:23 -0800
> Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8])
> by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with
> ESMTP
> id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997
> 05:17:21 -0800
> Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by
> mail1.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)
> with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov
> 1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET)
> Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by
> mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)
> with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov
> 1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET)
> Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm
> (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>;
> Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000
> Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>
> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000
> Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
> Precedence: bulk
> From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
> <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Color again..
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Priority: 3
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1Sent by "Torstein Grotnes"
> <tgr@commit.gm>
> via Commit
>
> Gambia-L.
> Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc.
> A short comment.
> My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails
> regarding my postings on color.
> However I still really believe that this emphasis on
> "white/black/color" is what we call in
> my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor).
> How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called
> "black"?!
> If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White"
> people,
> I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?Just look(capital
> letters are mine):
>
> >BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????>...What I
> liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a
> >time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a
> caddy
> >on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE
> >man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I
> >need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won
> the
> >championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good
> >collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what
> the
> >dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years
> >masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I
> >think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but
>
> >hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.>...So I
> thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports
> >and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of
> >them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK
> >sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a
> >fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the
> >idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football.
> >Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy
>
> >has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has
> basketball
> >skills than being drafted into the NFL. > FOLKS HERE's THE
> REAL DEAL...
> >The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why
> >some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey.
> >A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound
> >familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person
> >and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee
> >jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people
> >perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How
> >about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?
> >Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm
>
> >sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there
> are
> >WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you
> ever
> >see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot,
> if
> >WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know?>So go ahead Mr.
> Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will.
> >Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have
> >my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on
>
> >the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last
> >physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get
> to the
> >economics one day), then its okay with me.
> >Cheers,
> >Torstein.Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like
> brainwashing....For me it is simple.
> Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it
> only creates
> bad blood among humans.
> So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and
> "WHITE"????
> My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more,
> regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a
> mesurement of people.As a person with a physical apperance that some
> people defines as "white" I will keep
> my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than
> "black color racism".Best Regards,
> Torstein
> The Gambia
>
>



--------------8AAAA2E324267BE6CD57EC74
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">
Good day Mr. Torstein, Mr. Drammeh, and all Gambia-Lers,

<P>Now I think this "Question f Colour" is getting to the point of the
ridiculous.  I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride
in one's people be source of irritation for someone else????  And
then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively
identify?  If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black
pride or the expression of a positive Black identity, then I suggest that
is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to resolve. 
Why Mr. Drammeh would give support for this type of brooding is beyond
me.  Would either of you also condemn women who express pride in their
sisters across the world who have accomplished something of merit and gotten
local, national, or international publicity for it?  Or would you
condemn Gambians across the world, when a fellow Gambian achieved something
great and other Gambians expressed pride in this achievement?  After
all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in
the world.  The Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed
on a national level.  Are the Olympics, or the type of pride which
the Olympics foster wrong?

<P>Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always
felt threatened when Black people express pride in themselves.  And,
even though Mr. Torstein likes to draw a distinction between himself and
other White people,  in this respect, he shows himself to be No Different. 
For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others,
as both of you would suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical
processes.  If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other
women???  I hope not!!! The Torstein argument is the same argument
that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of various
backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black
folks, as to why there should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black
History?  The answer to that question is, all things being equal,
that there should not be such programs.  However, as we all know,
All Things Are Not Equal!  These programs, as well as the expression
of Black pride are the historic result of the exclusion of the voices of
Black people and their experiences in the larger arena.  Now, when
Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged
basis of being offensive to some people?  Here we fall into the same
cycle of silencing those who have traditionally had no voice!!!  Although,
I would affirm Mr. Torstein's right to express his unhappiness at these
events, I understand that unhappiness, am unsympathetic toward the reason
for that malaise, and even feel that I have the right and the obligation
to express my outrage at this display of paternalism (for that is how I
see it!)

<P>I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the
past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted with
racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at this point.

<P>I do hope that everyone has a good day.

<P>M W Payne

<P>Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Torstein!</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>           
I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve your right not
only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried away with
our this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing
of the words Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us
that nobody has a monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am
sympathetic with your stance all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and
don't allow any of these black people make you feel guilty of offences
committed by other whites.</FONT></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>And
keep up the good work down there!</FONT></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>                                                       
Regards Bassss!</FONT></FONT> <FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Return-Path:
<<A HREF="mailto:GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu">GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu</A>></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu
by qatar.net.qa (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail  It's now Sun, 16
Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300)</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03
-0300</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu
[140.142.56.13])</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>         
by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>   id FAA13061; Sun,
16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu
(mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7])</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>         
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>   id FAA36978 for <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu">gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu</A>>;
Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:23 -0800</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from mail1.sn.no (<A HREF="mailto:0@mail1.sn.no">0@mail1.sn.no</A>
[194.143.8.8])</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>         
by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>   id FAA09534 for <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>>;
Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:21 -0800</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from mail2.sn.no (<A HREF="mailto:0@mail2.sn.no">0@mail2.sn.no</A>
[194.143.8.114]) by mail1.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for
<<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>>;
Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET)</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com
[195.204.220.182]) by mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>with SMTP id <OAA22643> for
<<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>>;
Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET)</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111)
by south.commit.gm</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id
<<A HREF="mailto:B0000016604@south.commit.gm">B0000016604@south.commit.gm</A>>;</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Message-Id: <<A HREF="mailto:B0000016604@south.commit.gm">B0000016604@south.commit.gm</A>></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55
-0000</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Reply-To: <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Sender: <A HREF="mailto:GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu">GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu</A></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Precedence: bulk</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>From: "<A HREF="mailto:tgr@commit.gm">tgr@commit.gm</A>"
<<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@commit.gm">gambia-l@commit.gm</A>></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related
Issues Mailing List" <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Subject: Color again..</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>MIME-Version: 1.0</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>X-To: "gambia-l" <<A HREF="mailto:gambia-l@u.washington.edu">gambia-l@u.washington.edu</A>></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>X-Priority: 3</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta
-- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Sent
by "Torstein Grotnes" <<A HREF="mailto:tgr@commit.gm">tgr@commit.gm</A>></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>via Commit</FONT></FONT>

<P><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Gambia-L.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Regarding "tiger woods" posting
etc.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>A short comment.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the
others for well written mails</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>regarding my postings on color.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>However I still really believe
that this emphasis on "white/black/color" is what we call in</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>my country "en bjornetjeneste"
(a bears favor).</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>How come everyone except "pink
or colorless" people are called "black"?!</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos
wrote but in "favor" of "White" people,</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>I believe I would get some angry
mails back?!?</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Just look(capital
letters are mine):</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1> </FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE
ARE MY PEOPLE????</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>...What
I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>time in the good old US of A,
seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>on  a golf course was like
seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>man is really kicking ass on national
tv... on a golf course. Hey, I</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>need another budweiser to celebrate
Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>championship (the Augusta masters)
and was told to prepare some good</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>collard greens, chicken etc..(soul
food..yeah, I think that was what the</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>dude was refering to) when he
takes the participants of next years</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>masters out. BTW, have you folks
seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>think it is the best WHITE movie 
ever produced...bold statement, but</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>hey it's from the soul Mannn!!!
O.K, Okay back to sports.</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>...So
I thought and I thought and I thought.  Why are there WHITE sports</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>and BLACK sports?  What are
the WHITE sports?  Basketball is one of</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>them.  It's dominated by
WHITES.  That's a fact.  What are the BLACK</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>sports?  Hockey is one of
them.  It's dominated by BLACKS.  That's a</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>fact.  There are several
in-between sports, such that reflect the</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>idealistic "melting pot" theory
of America. You know, like Football.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback
who wins the Heissman trophy</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>has a greater chance of being
drafted into the NBA if he has basketball</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>skills than being drafted into
the NFL. </FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>       
FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>The historical basis for many
of these sports will explain why</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>some are dominated by one ethnic
group.  Take for instance hockey.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>A bunch of BLACK men chasing a
WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>familiar?  How about bungee
jumping?  Tie a rope around a person</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>and toss them down? Sound familiar?
Ever see a WHITE person bungee</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>jump (mindful of his history)
and not be nervous?  Man, these people</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>perfected that "sport" on us,
now you expect us to bungee jump? How</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>about horseback riding? Let's
not even go there. Shall we continue?</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Going for a walk in the woods,
Sailing (a la the America's cup).  I'm</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>sure you see where this is going.
Sailing, sailing, that's why there are</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>WHITE people here in north america
in the first place.  And do you ever</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>see a WHITE man in the American
swim team (at the olympics)?  Shoot, if</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>WE could swim WE wouldn't be here
no how.  You know?</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>So
go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods.  I don't know you, and probably never will.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Don't know what you stand for,
probably don't care. I have</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>my own troubles to deal with. 
But every now and then, when I turn on</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>the TV and see a WHITE man kicking
ass on a golf course--the last</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?)
supremacist mentality (we'll get to the</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>economics one day), then its okay
with me.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Cheers,</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>>Torstein.</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's
almost like brainwashing....</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>For
me it is simple.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Everybody says that europeans started
the color separation and that it only creates</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>bad blood among humans.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>So why are everybody pounding on
that everything is "BLACK" and "WHITE"????</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>My belief is that to continue on
this track will only divide more,</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>regardless if it is a African,Asian,European
etc. who use it as a mesurement of people.</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>As
a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white"
I will keep</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>my right to be just as offended
by "white color harrasment" than "black color racism".</FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Best
Regards,</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Torstein</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>The Gambia </FONT></FONT>

<P> </BLOCKQUOTE>
 
</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------8AAAA2E324267BE6CD57EC74--


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:43:16 +0100
From: Sompo.Sinyan@udac.se (Sompo Sinyan)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA)
Message-ID: <v01530500b096074c5d2c@[193.44.78.221]>


Well Ditah,
This brougth a grate joy to recieve the introduction mail from you.
Well boy ,it has been a long time since we've heard from one another,
and I appologize ,it's really my fault actually .
Anyway i do also have access to internet in our company ,I also install
the system for other companies.
I hope your child is feeling in good health.
Boy I hope we can leave the past behind and look forward instead and no
hard feelings.We are friends remember.
All for now.
Yours
Sompo Sinyan

Hälsningar

Sompo Sinyan


__________________________________________________________________________

Faktureringsadress: Besöksadress:
UDAC Installation UDAC
Box 174 Lägerhyddsvägen 3 (Polacksbacken)
75104 Uppsala Uppsala
Telefon: 018-187934
Mobil : 0708-665534



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:03:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: orbituary
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117080115.8558A-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Malanding or anyone else: Is there a phone number where Momodou jallow
can be reached? Musa




On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote:

> >
> > Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he
> > is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for
> > a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his
> > younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back
> > to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so
> > at the following address:
> >
> > Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased)
> >
> > 5606 Floyd Apt 1A
> > Overland Park
> > Kansas 66206
> >
> > May his soul rest in peace
> >
> >
> May his Soul rest in peace.
>
> Malanding jaiteh
>


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:15:50 -0500 (EST)
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: orbituary
Message-ID: <199711171315.IAA03133@oak.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text

>
>
> Malanding or anyone else: Is there a phone number where Momodou jallow
> can be reached? Musa
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he
> > > is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for
> > > a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his
> > > younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back
> > > to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so
> > > at the following address:
> > >
> > > Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased)
> > >
> > > 5606 Floyd Apt 1A
> > > Overland Park
> > > Kansas 66206
> > >
> > > May his soul rest in peace
> > >
> > >
> > May his Soul rest in peace.
> >
> > Malanding jaiteh
> >
>
K Touray is the author. Touray please help Musa and others with a phone no.

Malanding Jaiteh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:59:15 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: orbituary
Message-ID: <9711171459.AA34856@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Musa, you wrote:

> Malanding or anyone else: Is there a phone number where Momodou jallow
> can be reached? Musa
>


Here is the contact phone number : (913) 262-4778


Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:54:12 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
Message-ID: <01bcf371$3b4a2460$9c2385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BCF38A.60975C60"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BCF38A.60975C60
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mr.Payne!
Your insight is well taken.Thanks and keep up the good =
work down there!

=
Regards Bassss!

=20
I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in =
the past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted =
with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at =
this point.=20
=20
I do hope that everyone has a good day.=20
=20
M W Payne=20
=20
Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote:=20
=20
Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and =
entitled to reserve your right not only to feel offended but to fight =
back whenever we get carried away with our this black-and-proud songs.By =
turning the tables on us(your changing of the words Black for White in =
the article below) you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on =
either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance =
all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these =
black people make you feel guilty of offences committed by other whites. =
And keep up the good work down there! =
Regards Bassss!=20

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BCF38A.60975C60
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Mr.Payne!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>          &nbs=
p;    =20
Your insight is well taken.Thanks and keep up the good work down=20
there!</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>          &nbs=
p;            =
;            =
            &=
nbsp;           &n=
bsp;           &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p;   =20
Regards Bassss!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<P>
<P>I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in =
the=20
past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted =
with=20
racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at =
this point.=20
=20
<P>I do hope that everyone has a good day.=20
<P>M W Payne=20
<P>Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE =3D CITE> <FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20
size=3D-1>Torstein!</FONT></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20
=
size=3D-1>          &nb=
sp;=20
I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve your =
right=20
not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get =
carried away=20
with our this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on =
us(your=20
changing of the words Black for White in the article below) you =
have=20
reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on either inflicting or =
feeling=20
pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance all the way.So,defend =
your=20
WHITE rights and don't allow any of these black people make you =
feel=20
guilty of offences committed by other whites.</FONT></FONT> =
<FONT=20
color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>And keep up the good work down=20
there!</FONT></FONT> <FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20
=
size=3D-1>          &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p;            =
;            =
        =20
Regards Bassss!</FONT></FONT> =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BCF38A.60975C60--


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:55:56 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New members
Message-ID: <19971117155615.AAA30712@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Greetings,
Adama Sey, Bukhari Sillah and Arona John have all been added to the
list. Welcome to the Gambia-l, we look forward to your contributions.
Please send a brief introduction. Our address is
gambia-l@u.washington.edu


regards
Momodou Camara



*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara

**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:11:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117115311.25837C-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


MODOU: Thanks. It is interesting to hear that you are working
with Kuntaur School because that is my alma matta. Infact, my parternal
grand father founded Fulla Kunda, and called it" Kuntaur". The word
"kuntaur" is a fulla word which means "a great pasture area for cattle".
As people started to settle near the river they also called it Kuntaur.
Now when others, in Jakaba and surrounding villages would travel to one of
the kuntaurs, there was a confusion as to which one and as result, they
would say Kuntaur Fulla Kunda (Kuntaur where the fullas live) and the
other kuntaur simply remained that since there was a mixture of folks
living there. As a result the town near the river became kuntaur and
Fulla Kunda became Kuntaur Fulla Kunda or simply Fulla Kunda, and Jakaba
became known as Kuntaur Jakaba or simply Jakaba. And, the Jakaba folks,
at least, the elders who know the history still call me "Njati" (host) in
reference to my grand fathers founding the area and giving them land to
settle and build their own village. When my paternal grand father died,
my dad was still in school at Armitage, which was meant only for sons of
chiefs at the time , I am told. Therefore, my maternal grand father,
Noperi Jawo took over the village leadership and today, I think my uncle,
Dikory is heading the village. I have not been to the area for a long
time, so may be when you get some time you can fill me in. I am told by
Dr. Bojang, of Gambia College, that the area has changed.
But anyway, the Danish seem to be doing good deeds back home, and
I hope that our folks over there take good advantage of it. And, that the
rest of us continue do what we can to help Gambian Education. If there
is a way that I can be part of this Kuntaur project, I will be glad to
participate.
Thanks. Musa


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:04:44 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal
Message-ID: <9711172004.AA46862@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Jainaba, you wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Here we go again....
> When will this insanity STOP???????? America oh America, the only
> remaining superpower, world's most industralised nation and democracy,
> and a real GANGTERS PARADISE. I Hail thee!!!
>
> Very very moving...
>
> Later....
>
> Jainaba.
> **********************************************************************
> November 17, 1997
>
> Death Is Taking Him Home to Senegal
>


Much blessings and prayer for the brother.

There is no shame in trying to making an honest living, but
the turmoils of peace in America....

WHAT A SHAME!!!!!!!

May his soul RIP

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:45:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA)
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.971117133118.28206A-100000@dante29.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

=09I consider the message blow a private message and should have
been sent directly to the party(ies) concerned, instead. Just a thought.
=09Dawda singhateh

On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Sompo Sinyan wrote:

>=20
> Well Ditah,
> This brougth a grate joy to recieve the introduction mail from you.
> Well boy ,it has been a long time since we've heard from one another,
> and I appologize ,it's really my fault actually .
> Anyway i do also have access to internet in our company ,I also install
> the system for other companies.
> I hope your child is feeling in good health.
> Boy I hope we can leave the past behind and look forward instead and no
> hard feelings.We are friends remember.
> All for now.
> Yours
> Sompo Sinyan
>=20
> H=E4lsningar
>=20
> Sompo Sinyan
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________________=
_
>=20
> Faktureringsadress: Bes=F6ksadress:
> UDAC Installation UDAC
> Box 174 L=E4gerhyddsv=E4gen 3 (Polacksbacke=
n)
> 75104 Uppsala Uppsala
> Telefon: 018-187934
> Mobil : 0708-665534
>=20
>=20
>=20


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:14:16 -0000
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: color trouble..
Message-ID: <B0000017070@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit


Dear M W Payne.

You wrote:
>I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the past, (even though I feel
that a number of >his comments were tainted with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a
brief comment at this point.
>I do hope that everyone has a good day.
>M W Payne

Could you please specify for an ignorant "toubab" like me
where I have tainted my views with racism?!
In order to learn and change you have to listen to advices from different
sources, so I would much apreciate it if you could enlighten
me on this.

I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in one's people be source of irritation
for someone else????

So then it is Okey for me to say, horrray, a WHITE man just beat Tyson or Carl Lewis or whoever
because "WHITES" are MY people?!?

And then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively identify?

I will defend to my death your right to define anything you like, but as a consept my personal
belief is
that it is not the best way to make peace among people from around the world.

If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride or the expression of a positive Black
identity, then I suggest that is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to resolve.

A positive black identity?, where the important thing is that "MY COLOR" beat the bad "WHITE"
people?!?

After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in the world. The
Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed on a national level. Are the Olympics, or
the type of pride which the Olympics foster wrong?

You just said it my friend, the olympics being a big, wonderful mix of people from around the world
of any
color nuance competing on the basis of skills and talent and really not "COLOR"!!!

Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened when Black
people express pride in themselves.

I feel treathened by violent people, ignorant people, people with guns, fanatic people
and people without humor, but you can beat your chest as much as you like for me,
I will evaluate you by the things you do and not your "COLOR".

For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you would
suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes.

I am humble and sometimes depressed in the face of history, but for myself I make my own
reputation, and will speak up if people use my skincolor to define me.

If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The Torstein argument
is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of various
backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black folks, as to why there
should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question is, all
things being equal, that there should not be such programs. However, as we all know, All Things
Are Not Equal! These programs, as well as the expression of Black pride are the historic result of
the exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the larger arena. Now, when
Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged basis of being offensive to
some people?
M W Payne

So the important thing here is to voice out color segregation but the other way?
Should not the voice of opressed people fighting against colordiffences, be to
fight against evaluating people based on color??!

Best Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia

BTW: if you look to the left on your keyboard,
there is a "caps lock" function there that you
might have overlooked.


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:07:28 -0600
From: Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu>
To: jai_diallo@hotmail.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate -Reply
Message-ID: <s4707a15.005@wpo.it.luc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline

Hi Jainaba,

Please watch how you respond to other peoples mail. At the moment, I
have more pressing issues to attend to and do not have the time, energy
nor desire to engage in any petty fights. I think you need attitude
adjustment. What seems to be your problem??? Why are you always
on the defensive??? You should learn to discuss issues in a non
confrontational manner. And please never ever try to put words in my
mouth!!!


You wrote:

>Eventhough this is an emotional issue, I think the million-dollar
>question should be: Do you expect the Gambian consulate to provide all
>the needs of all Gambians in that locality??? We already have an
>"organization" in gambia-l that I presume, can come together in such
>times and raise funds.

Where did this come from? I think no reasonable person in their right mind
expects the govt. to hand everything down to them. I believe that is why
some of us are to trying to get good education in order to be able to help
ourselves and our families. However, in a case like this one, I do expect
the govt. to at least provide some assistance to the Jallow family. After
all, Alieu Badara's parents are taxpayers.

I am sure some members of this forum will indeed contribute to the cause
at hand. In fact a few people have already made donors. The reason
why the consulate was contacted in the first place is because not many
people came forward to provide assistance.

>Remember that the consulate gets its funds from a government that has
>ery little to offer. If they said that they don't have the necessary
>funds, what else do you expect?? They should print more money, like
>Idi Amin Dada???

Please save you sarcasm for those who are interested. The
government may not have the funds to help the Jallow family, but they
sure do have the funds to build a world class airport and some left over
funds to deposit in the Swiss bank accounts of corrupt leaders, how
hypocritical.

>folks, I think talking is cheap!!! It is time for us all to put up or
>shut up (excuse my style...no offence intended)...we shouldn't expect
>the government to do everything for us. Lets help the families in need.

Yes indeed talk is very cheap and only moronic people use it as an easy
way out. I think you need to follow your own advise, put up or shut!!
That is all for now, I got to run

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:08:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: appology
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117190533.7382B-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


My last nmessage to Modou Camara was not intended to be sent to the
general Gambia L. It was meant to be sent to his private email, somehow
something went wrong and I am trying to figure it out because this is the
second time it has happened to me. My appologies.
Musa


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:58:33 -0500
From: SAMBA NJIE <snjie@gis.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: 50 Dalasi Notes On The Offer
Message-ID: <3470E839.EB6@gis.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Camara, Momodou wrote:
>
> The following is an extract from FOROYAA issue of 6-13 November,
> 1997
>
> PRESIDENT JAMMEH DISPLAYING WEALTH!!!!!!!
> Sometime ago President jammeh was on national television to display
> 21 vehicles which, he said had been given him as gifts to various
> government departments. He claimed that the money came from Allah's
> World Bank.
>
> On 2 November, 1997, FOROYAA was asked to go near the State House
> gate to witness President Jammeh's dishing out of D50 notes.
> A large crowd had gathered and more were on their way to the State
> House gate after hearing that President Jammeh was issuing money to
> passers-by. Many were young children; some adults.
> For example, Fama, who is said to be from Half Die end, is a ten
> year old girl. She had a D50 note. One person who claimed to be Babou
> Njie of Hegan Street had a D50 note. Others who were identified as
> Musa Jallow, Musa Nyang, Lamin Camara, Ousman Bah, Mam Matty Faal and
> Amie Mbye.
>
> Interviewing the elderly people who stood gazing after Jammeh had
> disappeared from the view, they claimed that they are needy people
> who have heard that the President was giving out money.
> Unfortunately, they were not so lucky to get any form of assistance.
> In fact one lady claimed that she lost her pair of shoes in the push
> and pull.
> The most amazing development was the refusal of some people to go
> even though Jammeh had gone in anticipation that he would turn up
> again.
>
> This reminds us of the days when Babandi Sissoho used to dish out
> money. Beggars would walk from Serrekunda to Fajara and wait outside
> all day just to see him pass. Sometimes they were driven by guards
> but would linger somewhere in anticipation of his coming.
> These people also just looked on with the hope that somehow Jammeh
> would come back.
>
> These are the trappings of poverty. Poverty dehumanizes. It
> transforms a person into a mere object of pity. It throws a person
> at the mercy of blind circumstances.
> We hope that this pitiful sight will enable the president, in
> particular and all Gambians, in general, to see the terrible nature
> of poverty and motivate all well meaning people not to rest until all
> Gambians can live dignified lives free from poverty.How does Yaya get away with such sub-moronic statements/claims? If this
is a sign of things to come, we better brace ourselves for a
"Mobutucracy"

Samba

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:02:58 -0800 (PST)
From: lamin marenah <keita@rocketmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Hypocrisy or Ignorance......
Message-ID: <19971118010258.197.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello!
It's been a long really dissapointed week
waiting on list members to react to the current
threats of aggression against the people of Iraq by
uncle SAM. I have come to realise that certain
unfavourable topics about uncle Sam have been treated
with euphemisms or a little sympathetic by some
members.
In the interest of justice,we are all
entitled to opinions regardless of how unpopular they
might be. I am opinioned that the people of Iraq are
being very unfairly treated by the international
community in genaral and uncle Sam in particular. If
the west is in any way not satisfied with how Saddam
carries himself there should be a better way of
dealing with it than subjecting all Iraqis to such
inhumane conditions they have lived through for the
past 7 years.
I think uncle Sam is becoming the
aggressor in this issue instead of showing good
example to future world powers. If they could
engineer the collapse of the soviet communist empire
and remove unfavourable dictators i see no reason why
innocent civillians in Iraq should suffer.
I must also clarify that am in no way
sympathetic to the so called "dictatorial regime" of
Saddam but am only trying to be realistic as far as
the plight of the innocent yet helpless civillians of
Iraq goes.
Could anybody out there justify why the
"sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons"
and mind you, cause you might also be justifying the
"grandfather clause" in the U.S. segregation history.
THANKS
Lamin Marenah.



__________________________________________________________________
Sent by Yahoo! Mail. Get your free e-mail at http://mail.yahoo.com


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:30:36 -0500 (EST)
From: SANG1220@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: SANG1220@aol.com
Subject: Obituary
Message-ID: <971117203035_476214762@mrin44.mail.aol.com>

Is there an account set up for those who want to contribute towards funeral
expenses for our late brother and also please provide a phone number where
one can call. Please do not expect the gambian embassy to help, they probably
can't even afford to pay there staff.(laugh)
Thanks
Daddy Sang

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:41:29 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu
Subject: Re: Alieu Badara Jallow - Gambian consulate -Reply
Message-ID: <19971118024129.11115.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Ndey Kumba,

Since you gotta run, please do so in peace!! I still stand by the
statement though:

Talk is cheap, we should for a change put up or shut up!!!!!!

Jainaba.
PS: The arena is all yours....make my day!!!!!











______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 21:32:47 -0800
From: Compaq Customer <seela@oz.net>
To: "'GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List'"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: FW: Life Insurance (fwd)
Message-ID: <01BCF3A7.8175CBC0@sense-sea-pm11-15.oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ps: List members; With the help of TONY LOUM ,I'm forwarding the full =
details of the life Insurance issue I'd posted few days ago.
Please take a moment , read it carefully & check it out=20
WASSALAM =20
?????????????????????

-----Original Message-----
From: A. Loum [SMTP:tloum@u.washington.edu]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 1997 11:59 AM
To: Cheikh Faty
Subject: Life Insurance (fwd)



Faty, here is Sheku's posting on the life insurance which was written in =
the summer. Maybe, you should reforward the message to Gambia-l and let =
them reflect over it with the recent deaths that have been mounting this =
year. You must have read from Jainaba Diallo that a Senegalese taxi =
driver was also recently killed in New York.
Thanks
Tony=20

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 29 Jul 97 15:02:06 EDT
From: "Dr. S. G. Kamara" <73244.2701@CompuServe.COM>
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
To: GAMBIA-L:=20
The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
;
Subject: Life Insurance


Hello All,

Per Mr. Tony Loum's request in response to Habib, I am presenting a =
brief account of the insurance coverage which the Organization of =
African Associations (OAA) successfully negotiated here in Seattle. The =
OAA is an umbrella organization that comprises African and =
African-American associations in Washington State.
There have been some traumatic deaths of a few Africans during the last =
few years. Generating adequate funds to complete the demanding funeral =
arrangements and to ship the body were extremely difficult challenges. =
The process usually involves somewhere around $7,000 -- outside the =
reach of most uninsured individuals.
Over the last year and a half, we talked to many insurance companies and =
finally negotiated a concrete policy with one on the following simple =
terms:
1. A group policy for which every subscribing individual of any OAA =
member association will be eligible.
2. A simple, affordable, felxible, premium level.
3. Flexible payment schedule: monthly, quarterly, or annual.
4. A group rate based on the group's demographic averages (age, gender).

Based on these, the major benefit of the policy we negotiated was as =
follows:
For a $10,000 life insurance policy, a member pays only $4.00 (four =
dollars) per month, or $48.00 (forty-eight dollars) a year. This =
translates to 40 cents per thousand dollars of benefit per month.
Minor additional benefits to all members and their families include =
additional cash benefits for accidental death and dismemberment (AD&D), =
vision and prescription discounts, etc.
The four key advantages of this insurance are:
1. There is no screening for anything. Members qualify upon =
subscription.

2. Privacy: Individual/private demographic information of=20
member subscribers are not released to the Insurance=20
company.

3. If a subscribing member of our community dies, the insurance company =
immediately writes the check for the amount of benefits to the =
beneficiary with no questions asked, as long as they are identified by =
OAA.

Needless to say how happy and relieved we are to have this insurance in =
place.
We intend to work with the company to extend the policy to other states =
in the U.S., as well as to different countries in Africa.
If Africans in other locations are interested in pursuing this, DO NOT =
SEND E-MAIL, but please WRITE to me at the Organization of African =
Associations, P.O. Box 22413, Seattle, WA. 98122, USA. =20
PLEASE DO NOT SEND PRIVATE E-MAIL REGARDING THIS!!!l=20
Even though I have been peeping for a while, I have been following and =
enjoying the discussions on Gambia-l. Keep the lively debates up.
Back to peeper's paradise.
Regards,

S. G. Kamara. =20



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:11:34 +0100
From: Sompo.Sinyan@udac.se (Sompo Sinyan)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Ditah( KESEMBEBAA)APPOLOGY
Message-ID: <v01530501b0972922cd48@[193.44.78.221]>

Dear list members!!

My appology to all of you who recieved my mail sent to Ditah,
I became to notice that while the botten has already been pressed.
I hope to avoid such terrible mistakes in the future.
Sompo

Hälsningar

Sompo Sinyan


__________________________________________________________________________

Faktureringsadress: Besöksadress:
UDAC Installation UDAC
Box 174 Lägerhyddsvägen 3 (Polacksbacken)
75104 Uppsala Uppsala
Telefon: 018-187934
Mobil : 0708-665534



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:37:00 +0100
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
Message-ID: <34718f3a.narud@relay.nsw.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt

Sir,
=

I can't seem to find the words that would describe exactly how grateful =
=

I am at your reply of Nov.17th. You saved me much energy and time from =

what would have been an angry outburst from my side.

This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred =
=

to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart) =

should either put up or shut up.

Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel =
=

in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that =

colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks =
=

their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless=
=

people have always had for colourful people.

Once more thank you for a job well done!

A. Kabir Njie

----------
From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sent: 17. november 1997 7:03
To: ak; gambia-l; kolls567
Subject: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????

<<File: part2.htm>>
Torstein!
I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve =

your
righ
t not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried =

away
with o
ur this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing =
=

of
the wo
rds Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us that =

nobody
has a
monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with =

your
stanc
e all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these =

black
peop
le make you feel guilty of offences committed by other whites.

And keep up the good work down there!

Regards Bassss!

Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa
(SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-S
endmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300)
id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with =
=

SMTP
id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800
Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7])=

by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with =

ESMTP
id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997
05:17:23
-0800
Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8])
by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with =

ESMTP
id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:21=

-0800
Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by mail1.sn.no=

(8.8.6
/8.8.6/sol5)
with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov =

1997
14:1
7:17 +0100 (MET)
Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by
mail2.sn.no
(8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)
with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov =

1997
14:17
:16 +0100 (MET)
Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>;
Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000
Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000
Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washingto
n.edu>
Subject: Color again..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit

Gambia-L.
Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc.
A short comment.
My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails
regarding my postings on color.
However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color" =
=

is
what
we call in
my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor).
How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?!
If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White" =

people,
I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?
Just look(capital letters are mine):
=


>BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????
>...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a
>time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy
>on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE
>man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I
>need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the
>championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good
>collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the=
=


>dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years
>masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I
>think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but
>hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.
>...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports=
=


>and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of
>them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK
>sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a
>fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the
>idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football.
>Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy
>has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball
>skills than being drafted into the NFL.
> FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...
>The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why
>some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey.
>A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound
>familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person
>and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee
>jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people
>perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How
>about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?
>Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm
>sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are=
=


>WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever
>see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if
>WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know?
>So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will.=
=


>Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have
>my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on
>the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last
>physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get to=
=

the
>economics one day), then its okay with me.
>Cheers,
>Torstein.
Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like =

brainwashing....
For me it is simple.
Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it =

only
crea
tes
bad blood among humans.
So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and =

"WHITE"????
My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more,
regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a =

mesurement
of
people.
As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white"=
=

I
will
keep
my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black =
=

color
ra
cism".
Best Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia





---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
R=E5dhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:24:00 +0100
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
Message-ID: <34719bd0.narud@relay.nsw.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt

Hey there,
=

I just found out that I had made a mistake by double-clikking and =

replying to the wrong posting but which had the same heading as the one I=
=

intended to respond to.

The posting I meant to reply to is RE : The QUESTION of COLOUR????? sent =
=

in by M. W. Payne and not that by Bassirou Dodou Drammeh. I have copied =
=

Mr Payne's posting below.

I regret any inconvenience caused and once again Mr. Payne, a big Thanks =
=

to YOU!


Sir,
=

I can't seem to find the words that would describe exactly how grateful =
=

I am at your reply of Nov.17th. You saved me much energy and time from =

what would have been an angry outburst from my side.

This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred =
=

to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart) =

should either put up or shut up.

Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel =
=

in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that =

colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks =
=

their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless=
=

people have always had for colourful people.

Once more thank you for a job well done!

A. Kabir Njie




----------
From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sent: 17. november 1997 7:02
To: ak; gambia-l; awo
Subject: Re: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????

<<File: part2.htm>>
Good day Mr. Torstein, Mr. Drammeh, and all Gambia-Lers,

Now I think this "Question f Colour" is getting to the point of the
ridiculous. I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in
one's people be source of irritation for someone else???? And then, why
should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively
identify? If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride
or the expression of a positive Black identity, then I suggest that is
his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to resolve. Why
Mr. Drammeh would give support for this type of brooding is beyond me.
Would either of you also condemn women who express pride in their
sisters across the world who have accomplished something of merit and
gotten local, national, or international publicity for it? Or would you
condemn Gambians across the world, when a fellow Gambian achieved
something great and other Gambians expressed pride in this achievement?
After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some
group in the world. The Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride
expressed on a national level. Are the Olympics, or the type of pride
which the Olympics foster wrong?

Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always
felt threatened when Black people express pride in themselves. And,
even though Mr. Torstein likes to draw a distinction between himself and
other White people, in this respect, he shows himself to be No
Different. For Black people to express this type of pride is not
demeaning to others, as both of you would suggest, but rather, is the
result of numerous historical processes. If I express a love for my
wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The Torstein argument
is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from
White people of various backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a
number of "liberal" Black folks, as to why there should be, for
instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question
is, all things being equal, that there should not be such programs.
However, as we all know, All Things Are Not Equal! These programs, as
well as the expression of Black pride are the historic result of the
exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the
larger arena. Now, when Black people get a voice, you try to silence
that voice, on the alleged basis of being offensive to some people?
Here we fall into the same cycle of silencing those who have
traditionally had no voice!!! Although, I would affirm Mr. Torstein's
right to express his unhappiness at these events, I understand that
unhappiness, am unsympathetic toward the reason for that malaise, and
even feel that I have the right and the obligation to express my outrage
at this display of paternalism (for that is how I see it!)

I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the
past, (even though I feel that a number of his comments were tainted
with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a brief comment at
this point.

I do hope that everyone has a good day.

M W Payne

Bassirou Dodou Drammeh wrote:

> Torstein! I think you are absolutely correct and entitled
> to reserve your right not only to feel offended but to fight back
> whenever we get carried away with our this black-and-proud songs.By
> turning the tables on us(your changing of the words Black for White in
> the article below) you have reminded us that nobody has a monopoly on
> either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with your stance
> all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these
> black people make you feel guilty of offences committed by other
> whites. And keep up the good work down
> there! Regards
> Bassss! Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
> Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa
> (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03
> -0300)
> id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300
> Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
> by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05)
> with SMTP
> id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800
> Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu
> [140.142.32.7])
> by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with
> ESMTP
> id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997
> 05:17:23 -0800
> Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8])
> by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with
> ESMTP
> id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997
> 05:17:21 -0800
> Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by
> mail1.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)
> with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov
> 1997 14:17:17 +0100 (MET)
> Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by
> mail2.sn.no (8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)
> with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov
> 1997 14:17:16 +0100 (MET)
> Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm
> (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>;
> Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000
> Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>
> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000
> Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
> Precedence: bulk
> From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
> <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Color again..
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Priority: 3
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1Sent by "Torstein Grotnes=
"
> <tgr@commit.gm>
> via Commit
>
> Gambia-L.
> Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc.
> A short comment.
> My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails
> regarding my postings on color.
> However I still really believe that this emphasis on
> "white/black/color" is what we call in
> my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor).
> How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called
> "black"?!
> If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White"
> people,
> I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?Just look(capital
> letters are mine):
>
> >BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????>...What I
> liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a
> >time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a
> caddy
> >on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE
> >man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I
> >need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won
> the
> >championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good
> >collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what
> the
> >dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years
> >masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I
> >think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but
>
> >hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.>...So I
> thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports
> >and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of
> >them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK
> >sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a
> >fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the
> >idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football.
> >Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy
>
> >has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has
> basketball
> >skills than being drafted into the NFL. > FOLKS HERE's THE
> REAL DEAL...
> >The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why
> >some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey.
> >A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound
> >familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person
> >and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee
> >jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people
> >perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How
> >about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?
> >Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm
>
> >sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there
> are
> >WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you
> ever
> >see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot,
> if
> >WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know?>So go ahead Mr.
> Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will.
> >Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have
> >my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on
>
> >the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last
> >physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get
> to the
> >economics one day), then its okay with me.
> >Cheers,
> >Torstein.Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like
> brainwashing....For me it is simple.
> Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it
> only creates
> bad blood among humans.
> So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and
> "WHITE"????
> My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more,
> regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a
> mesurement of people.As a person with a physical apperance that some
> people defines as "white" I will keep
> my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than
> "black color racism".Best Regards,
> Torstein
> The Gambia
>
>





---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
R=E5dhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Momodou



Denmark
10540 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2021 :  15:18:51  Show Profile Send Momodou a Private Message  Reply with Quote
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:54:41 +0100
From: Abdoulie Dibba <adibba@online.no>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
Message-ID: <01BCF431.E8088AA0.adibba@online.no>

Colour problem is everywhere (It is just like a cancern and it should be
fight) . I think it is our duty to forgive and cooperate. let colour not be
criteria to congratulate or condemn anyone or to let it determine our
social status in any society. There are both evil and good people in every
race. The fighting should be among the evil and good people not people of
different colours.
Let also fight colour problem in our neightbouring country.
Why is something not done about "lighter skin" Mauritanian consider their
"darker skin" fellow country men as their slave because of their colour ?

-----Original Message-----
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no [SMTP:amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 1:37 PM
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????

Sir,

I can't seem to find the words that would describe exactly how grateful
I am at your reply of Nov.17th. You saved me much energy and time from
what would have been an angry outburst from my side.

This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred
to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart)
should either put up or shut up.

Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel
in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that
colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks
their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless
people have always had for colourful people.

Once more thank you for a job well done!

A. Kabir Njie

----------
From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sent: 17. november 1997 7:03
To: ak; gambia-l; kolls567
Subject: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????

<<File: part2.htm>>
Torstein!
I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve
your
righ
t not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried
away
with o
ur this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing
of
the wo
rds Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us that
nobody
has a
monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with
your
stanc
e all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these
black
peop
le make you feel guilty of offences committed by other whites.

And keep up the good work down there!

Regards Bassss!

Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa
(SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-S
endmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300)
id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with
SMTP
id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800
Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with
ESMTP
id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997
05:17:23
-0800
Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8])
by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with
ESMTP
id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:21
-0800
Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by mail1.sn.no
(8.8.6
/8.8.6/sol5)
with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov
1997
14:1
7:17 +0100 (MET)
Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by
mail2.sn.no
(8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)
with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov
1997
14:17
:16 +0100 (MET)
Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>;
Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000
Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000
Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washingto
n.edu>
Subject: Color again..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit

Gambia-L.
Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc.
A short comment.
My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails
regarding my postings on color.
However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color"
is
what
we call in
my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor).
How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?!
If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White"
people,
I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?
Just look(capital letters are mine):


>BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????
>...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a
>time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy
>on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE
>man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I
>need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the
>championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good
>collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the

>dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years
>masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I
>think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but
>hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.
>...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports

>and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of
>them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK
>sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a
>fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the
>idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football.
>Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy
>has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball
>skills than being drafted into the NFL.
> FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...
>The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why
>some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey.
>A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound
>familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person
>and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee
>jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people
>perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How
>about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?
>Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm
>sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are

>WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever
>see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if
>WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know?
>So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will.

>Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have
>my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on
>the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last
>physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get to
the
>economics one day), then its okay with me.
>Cheers,
>Torstein.
Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like
brainwashing....
For me it is simple.
Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it
only
crea
tes
bad blood among humans.
So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and
"WHITE"????
My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more,
regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a
mesurement
of
people.
As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white"
I
will
keep
my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black
color
ra
cism".
Best Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia





---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
Radhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:27:00 +0100
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
Message-ID: <3471a74e.narud@relay.nsw.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt

Can you please try and formulate yourself better. I can't seem to make =

any sense out of the jargon below!

----------
From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sent: 18. november 1997 2:54
To: ak; gambia-l; adibba
Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????

Colour problem is everywhere (It is just like a cancern and it should be
fight) . I think it is our duty to forgive and cooperate. let colour not =
=

be
criteria to congratulate or condemn anyone or to let it determine our
social status in any society. There are both evil and good people in =

every
race. The fighting should be among the evil and good people not people of=
=


different colours.
Let also fight colour problem in our neightbouring country.
Why is something not done about "lighter skin" Mauritanian consider their=
=


"darker skin" fellow country men as their slave because of their colour ?=


-----Original Message-----
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no [SMTP:amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 1:37 PM
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????

Sir,

I can't seem to find the words that would describe exactly how grateful
I am at your reply of Nov.17th. You saved me much energy and time from
what would have been an angry outburst from my side.

This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred
to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart)
should either put up or shut up.

Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel
in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that
colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks
their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless=
=


people have always had for colourful people.

Once more thank you for a job well done!

A. Kabir Njie

----------
From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sent: 17. november 1997 7:03
To: ak; gambia-l; kolls567
Subject: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????

<<File: part2.htm>>
Torstein!
I think you are absolutely correct and entitled to reserve
your
righ
t not only to feel offended but to fight back whenever we get carried
away
with o
ur this black-and-proud songs.By turning the tables on us(your changing
of
the wo
rds Black for White in the article below) you have reminded us that
nobody
has a
monopoly on either inflicting or feeling pain.So,I am sympathetic with
your
stanc
e all the way.So,defend your WHITE rights and don't allow any of these
black
peop
le make you feel guilty of offences committed by other whites.

And keep up the good work down there!

Regards Bassss!

Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by qatar.net.qa
(SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-S
endmail It's now Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300)
id QAA13582; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:13:03 -0300
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with
SMTP
id FAA13061; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:30 -0800
Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7])=

by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with
ESMTP
id FAA36978 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997
05:17:23
-0800
Received: from mail1.sn.no (0@mail1.sn.no [194.143.8.8])
by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with
ESMTP
id FAA09534 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:17:21=

-0800
Received: from mail2.sn.no (0@mail2.sn.no [194.143.8.114]) by mail1.sn.no=

(8.8.6
/8.8.6/sol5)
with ESMTP id <OAA06600> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov
1997
14:1
7:17 +0100 (MET)
Received: from mail2.sn.no (t4o203p2.telia.com [195.204.220.182]) by
mail2.sn.no
(8.8.6/8.8.6/sol5)
with SMTP id <OAA22643> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Sun, 16 Nov
1997
14:17
:16 +0100 (MET)
Received: from west.EARTH (149.212.100.111) by south.commit.gm
(EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>;
Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:14:20 +0000
Message-Id: <B0000016604@south.commit.gm>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:01:55 -0000
Reply-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washingto
n.edu>
Subject: Color again..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit

Gambia-L.
Regarding "tiger woods" posting etc.
A short comment.
My regards to Mr.Bassirou and the others for well written mails
regarding my postings on color.
However I still really believe that this emphasis on "white/black/color"
is
what
we call in
my country "en bjornetjeneste" (a bears favor).
How come everyone except "pink or colorless" people are called "black"?!
If I was writing what Jainaba Jiallos wrote but in "favor" of "White"
people,
I believe I would get some angry mails back?!?
Just look(capital letters are mine):


>BLACK SPORTS IN BLACK AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????
>...What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a
>time in the good old US of A, seeing a WHITE person who was not a caddy
>on a golf course was like seeing a normal Madonna. Wow, a WHITE
>man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I
>need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the
>championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good
>collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the=
=



>dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years
>masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I
>think it is the best WHITE movie ever produced...bold statement, but
>hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.
>...So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there WHITE sports=
=



>and BLACK sports? What are the WHITE sports? Basketball is one of
>them. It's dominated by WHITES. That's a fact. What are the BLACK
>sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by BLACKS. That's a
>fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the
>idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football.
>Yeah, football, were a WHITE quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy
>has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball
>skills than being drafted into the NFL.
> FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...
>The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why
>some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey.
>A bunch of BLACK men chasing a WHITE puck, with sticks. Sound
>familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person
>and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a WHITE person bungee
>jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people
>perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How
>about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?
>Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm
>sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are=
=



>WHITE people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever
>see a WHITE man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if
>WE could swim WE wouldn't be here no how. You know?
>So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will.=
=



>Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have
>my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on
>the TV and see a WHITE man kicking ass on a golf course--the last
>physical bastion of the (HARDLINER?) supremacist mentality (we'll get to=
=


the
>economics one day), then its okay with me.
>Cheers,
>Torstein.
Black,white,black,white,black,white......It's almost like
brainwashing....
For me it is simple.
Everybody says that europeans started the color separation and that it
only
crea
tes
bad blood among humans.
So why are everybody pounding on that everything is "BLACK" and
"WHITE"????
My belief is that to continue on this track will only divide more,
regardless if it is a African,Asian,European etc. who use it as a
mesurement
of
people.
As a person with a physical apperance that some people defines as "white"=
=


I
will
keep
my right to be just as offended by "white color harrasment" than "black
color
ra
cism".
Best Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia





---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
Radhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------




---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
R=E5dhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:03:06 +0100
From: Said Quamar <Said.Quamar@Aviaplan.no>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: I ask for a one break.
Message-ID: <FBF1001D6A18D1118AC100A0C942F23001F79C@AVIA-A>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


hallo.
I receive many mails everyday,It is very interesting to read many
differents subjects,
I ask now to stop sending me mails for while. I need to take break.
Thanks.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:28:59 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <9711181528.AA44512@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

This is a witness account to yesterday's terrorist attack in the ancient
ruins of Luxor, Egypt.

"The assailants sprayed their victims with assault rifles and when they
ran out of bullets some of them used daggers to stab to death a number
of people, including a police officer."


TERRORISM, what a dangerous game to play!

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:13:54 +0200
From: chakys@image.dk
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: The QUESTION of COLOUR??????
Message-ID: <199711181619.RAA14522@mail.image.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi G-Lers,
The question of colour is typical to any european country. Where the
colour determine the individuality. It can't be wrong that
Blacks are showing their identity through the issue of their race.
I am not a black activist but i am proud to be black; i show it
everywhere i got the opportunity to. The main reason to that ,it's
that white show to us the colour of the skin has a big significance
for them. I will just give a banal exemple: when you go to a big
restaurant, you automaticaly pay people attention.
It seem to be common that the White underestimate us, eventhough
their stupid . The main problem is you can't convince them because
they judge you by the colour of skin not by the content of your keen
intellect. What a pitty !!!!!!!!!!!!111
When i see a black being successful , i get incredibly happy: when
Tyson punch a white or Tiger Wood is leading the US open , You can
imagine my happyness.
White people don't need to be afraid of the awakening of black
nationalism, they deserve it.
Peace
Chakys.-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:26:39 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: When Intellectuals argue....
Message-ID: <9711181626.AA44424@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Ladies and gentlemen,

I hope that the exchanges on the subject of "COLOUR" do not get out of
hand. Since I was the one that 'unknowingly' brought it up in my QUOTE OF
THE DAY, I would like to make a brief comment on debates that maybe
sensitive in nature, such as "RACISM" and "COLOUR".

Before I proceed though, let's consider the following scenario:

A philosopher, a physicist and a mathematician were looking intently
at an animal in the distance. First the philosopher spoke up.

" That's interesting," he said. "I didn't know there were black sheep
in this area".

"Wait a minute" retorted the physicist. "You still don't know there are
black sheep in this area; all you know is that there is a black sheep."

"How do you prove that?" The mathematician sounded irritated. "All we see,
and therefore all we have proof for, is that there is a sheep in this
area, one side of which is black."

Well, what can you infer from this intellectual conversation?

Here we see that there are three different types of people. There are
people who accept things on faith. There are others who accept facts only.
There are still a good number who require proves. We are all so different
and we can only avoid quarrels on this net if we are able to consider
other people's writings as NO nonsense, as difficult a feat as it may be.
Sometimes even when we believe strongly in our ideas and feelings we have
to be willing to listen to others, unless of course it is disgustingly
offensive in which case we make use of our DELETE button.

I think it is really misleading that the first instinct of a lot of people
on this forum is to attack profusely when they read something they
disagree with or dislike. I think we need to rise above our angered minds
and learn to objectively agree to disagree. I have had the honor and
pleasure (on this forum), of reading the postings of some of the most
knowledgeable Gambians I have ever come across. I have also had the
displeasure of learning that there are some amongst us who may need to
cool down their temper after reading what they think could be an offensive
message.

No hard feelings.

Just thinking [aloud]

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:24:38 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Coups and even more Coups
Message-ID: <9711181724.AA64998@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Another failed coup attempt in Sierra Leone as though the wounds of the
past killings have been healed. Oh boy...where are we headed????

Reuters report:

"...Ten people, six of them military, have been arrested in Sierra Leone
in connection with an alleged plot to topple the West African country's
military government, military sources said on Tuesday.


A senior army officer told Reuters the six military men and four civilians
wanted to topple the government of Major Johnny Paul Koroma because of its
agreement to hand back power to ousted civilian president Ahmad Tejan
Kabbah by April 22."

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:58:00 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Observer Online Update...anyone?
Message-ID: <9711181758.AA49598@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Dear Obsever Online Committee,

Do you have any updated information on the Observer Online newspaper that
you are currently working on?

Momodou Camara, I understand that you just came back from the Gambia.
Was there any progress made on this venture?

Thank you for any update?

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:10:28 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: What was Bill thinking?
Message-ID: <9711181810.AA67906@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I wonder what Bill Gates was smoking....

At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the
computer industry with the auto industry and stated "If GM had kept up
with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving
twenty-five dollar cars that got 1000 mi/gal."

Recently General Motors addressed this comment by releasing the statement
"Yes, but would you want your car to crash twice a day?"

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:12:53 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Observer Online Update...anyone?
Message-ID: <19971118191320.AAA41498@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Moe,
We are preparing a new progress report which will be posted to the
list soon. Hopefully before the end of the week.

As Bass would say, keep up the good work down there!

Momodou Camara



On 18 Nov 97 at 12:58, Modou Jallow wrote:

> Dear Obsever Online Committee,
>
> Do you have any updated information on the Observer Online newspaper
> that you are currently working on?
>
> Momodou Camara, I understand that you just came back from the
> Gambia. Was there any progress made on this venture?
>
> Thank you for any update?
>
> Regards,
> Moe S. Jallow
>
> ====================================================================
> ====
> mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:47:40 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New member
Message-ID: <19971118194808.AAA14604@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Greetings,
Kebba A.K. Trawally has been added to the list. Welcome to Gambia-l
Kebba. We look forward to your contribution.

You can send a brief introduction. Our address is:
gambia-l@uwashington.edu


regards
Momodou Camara

*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara

**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 16:52:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re- quote of the day
Message-ID: <971118165225_2038623968@mrin45.mail.aol.com>

This is no c---- (not fit to utter) indeed. There has long been an opinion
among African Americans that some of their own who have so called "made it"
tend to, in their effort to be accepted by Whites, shun their own. A common
example given by some is "marrying White" as opposed to choosing Black mates
by some of the economically successful Black folks.The argument goes that
they will always somehow be measured by the color of their skin rather than
the content of their character to para-phrase Martin Luther king.These
folks are then seen as uncle Toms and traitors and treated as such. E.g, O.J
Simpson. He remembered the Black community only when they were frying his you
know what and not for very long either. This is not a new or out-dated
opinion at all, so brother Moe S. Jallow, no need for appologies in my
opinion. Besides, many people have quotes at the end of their correspondences
on this list, some very insightful and some rather crude and deserve no more
than to be overlooked with hopes that Allah, in his infinite mercy will
bestow some wisdom on the sender someday soon. Yours, Mr. Jallow was happily
not one of these.

Jabou Joh.


Sister Jainaba,

I apologize if you found the quote offensive. I have no criteria for
selecting a particular quote of the DAY. I randomly select one from a list
of quotes that I have come across on that particular day.

Rest assured there's no harm taken; it will take more than a blow on the
head to get me offended. Besides, life would be very empty if one had
nothing to regret. But remember this is a quote that was made in the
1950'S. Surely, you will agree with me that to to have been the first
black ballerina to perform at the Metropolitan Opera in 1951 would not
have been an easy task.

Now let me ask you: how would you have responded if you were the first
black at an all white sport in white America?

Perhaps, Tiger Woods can help you answer that.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow



> Sir,
>
> If I may ask, what is your criteria for choosing a particular quote as
> being that of the week. I think the piece below is a piece of crap!!!
> (no pun intended....afterall you are not Janet Collins).
>
> You probably need to read it over a few more times if you wanna see my
> point.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jainaba.
> > " WHEN YOU GET TO BE AN EXCEPTIONAL BLACK,
> > YOU DON'T BELONG TO THE WHITE AND YOU
> > DON'T BELONG TO THE BLACK. YOU ARE TOO
> > GOOD FOR THE BLACK AND YOU WILL ALWAYS
> > BE BLACK TO THE WHITE "
> > - Janet Collins.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>



----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from relay17.mail.aol.com (relay17.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.71])
by air04.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:05:32 -0500
Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu (lists3.u.washington.edu
[140.142.56.3])
by relay17.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id QAA21978;
Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:36:36 -0500 (EST)
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
id NAA07609; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 13:36:21 -0800
Received: from mx3.u.washington.edu (mx3.u.washington.edu [140.142.13.230])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
id NAA37458 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 1997
13:36:04 -0800
Received: from st6000.sct.edu (mjallow@st6000.sct.edu [168.28.176.249])
by mx3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP
id NAA06176 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 13:36:00
-0800
Received: by st6000.sct.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03)
id AA67934; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:29:12 -0500
Message-Id: <9711142129.AA67934@st6000.sct.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 16:29:12 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: QUOTE OF THE DAY
In-Reply-To: <19971114202902.23442.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Jainaba Diallo"
at Nov 14, 97 12:29:02 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:12:06 +0100
From: Mamadou S Jallow <bala@algonet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: orbituary
Message-ID: <347212B6.7A05@algonet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

KTouray@aol.com wrote:
>
> Another one us has fallen in the person of Alieu Badara Jallow. I am told he
> is a native of Serrekunda who lived in Kansas. He was undergoing surgery for
> a heart ailment when he he suffered a fatal stroke. He lived with his
> younger brother who now has the formidible task of transporting the body back
> to the Gambia. All those who wish to send condolences and assitance can do so
> at the following address:
>
> Momodou Seray Jallow(brother of the deceased)
>
> 5606 Floyd Apt 1A
> Overland Park
> Kansas 66206
>
> May his soul rest in peace
>
Accept my simpathy. May his Soul Rest in Peace.
/Bala & Family

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:52:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements
Message-ID: <971118174608_595178992@mrin53.mail.aol.com>

Hi list members,

l just got a call from brother Habib who informed me that he has convinced
the family to go ahead and bury sister Aji Sowe here as opposed to sending
the body home. The burial will be Thursday in Maryland. l will post more
details as l get them. For those brothers in the vicinity, please make every
effort to attend the burial.l am sure this small gesture will mean a lot to
the family. Thanks.

Jabou Joh.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:04:30 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: What was Bill thinking?
Message-ID: <19971118230433.16956.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain



Brother Moe,

He indeed was high on something....perhaps, his money!!!! It gets to
some peoples head when they have too much of it. Such a comment from a
person who STOLE Apple computers' (manufacturers of Macintosh)idea and
bullying my favorite net browser, Netscape. What is his contribution to
the computer technology anyway???

He was just at the right place at the right time....Bill "the Bully"
Gates.

Friendly,

Jainaba.
*********************************************************************

>I wonder what Bill Gates was smoking....
>
>At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the
>computer industry with the auto industry and stated "If GM had kept up
>with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving
>twenty-five dollar cars that got 1000 mi/gal."
>
>Recently General Motors addressed this comment by releasing the
statement
>"Yes, but would you want your car to crash twice a day?"
>
>Regards,
>Moe S. Jallow
>
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:27:38 -0600
From: Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Jainaba's NASTY& STINKY attitude!!!
Message-ID: <s471d025.078@wpo.it.luc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline

Jainaba,

Now I am ready to make you day. I see you are trying really hard to
provoke me to stoop to you level, and that I refuse to do!!!

What did that I say in my posting that so terrible to warrant your insulting
my intelligence??? All I was trying to say is that the Gambian consulate
should provide some assistance to the Jallow family, no matter how little.
This List being a democracy forum, you have every right to disagree with
my posting. What I did not appreciate is the fact that you twisted what I
said just to serve your purpose. You are certainly entitled to saying
whatever is on your mind, but please do not ever use me AGAIN as a
scapegoat to get you points across!!! Get it???

You seem to have this thing for pushing buttons to test what makes
others tick, well my buttons cannot be triggered that easily!!! Tell me
something, what is your real reason for being on this list??? If you
asked me, you sure do seem to have a hidden agenda. Come out and
state why you are really a member of Gambia-l!!!

If you think for a second that you tactics of personal attacks, intimidation
and fact twisting is going to deter me from speaking my mind, well then
think again!!! If you think a stinky attitude like yours is what is going to
scare people, oh boy, are you wrong!!! I suggest that you choose
someone else for you mud slinging campaign, and leave me in peace. I
am in no mood whatsoever, for any confrontation. This is the last time
you will hear from me on this topic.

For those of you who find this posting offensive, please forgive me.


Ndey Kumba

PS: I will always go in peace with or without your blessing. So, please
save you blessing for someone who cares.

>>> "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com> 11/17/97 08:41pm >>>
Ndey Kumba,

Since you gotta run, please do so in peace!! I still stand by the
statement though:

Talk is cheap, we should for a change put up or shut up!!!!!!

Jainaba.
PS: The arena is all yours....make my day!!!!!











______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 18:42:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Kuntaur Fullah kunda
Message-ID: <971118184103_767445649@mrin40.mail.aol.com>

Musa,
My dad had the biggest general store in Georgetown and also bought groundnut
i.e TERETANG KAT. My family knew yours and l am sure they remember my
dad.Noperi Jawo used to spend time at our house.My dad's name was Pa
Ndaraw Joh. l went back to Georgetown and boy has it changed. l visited the
house where all of the children in my family were born right on the banks of
the Gambia river, the former Maurel and Prom. The house has sunk in about
four feet or more and l silently stood to the side with years of memories,
good and bad coasting through my mind as the local boys took tourists on a
tour of the house, telling them that the basement under the house was once a
holding place for slaves to be shipped out. l was born in that house and
lived there for 9 years and never contemplated that that was what that
basement was used for. l never even knew what slavery was . l only knew that
basement as a place that my dad forbade me and my brothers from entering but
we did anyway, when he was not looking, and we were always driven out by a
swarm of bats.My grandma was married to Pa Omar Jallow and they used to spend
the groundnut season at Kuntaur where l would visit her sometimes. Sorry to
be so long winded. l must put my Georgetown memories on paper some day.
Jabou Joh.

MODOU: Thanks. It is interesting to hear that you are working
with Kuntaur School because that is my alma matta. Infact, my parternal
grand father founded Fulla Kunda, and called it" Kuntaur". The word
"kuntaur" is a fulla word which means "a great pasture area for cattle".
As people started to settle near the river they also called it Kuntaur.
Now when others, in Jakaba and surrounding villages would travel to one of
the kuntaurs, there was a confusion as to which one and as result, they
would say Kuntaur Fulla Kunda (Kuntaur where the fullas live) and the
other kuntaur simply remained that since there was a mixture of folks
living there. As a result the town near the river became kuntaur and
Fulla Kunda became Kuntaur Fulla Kunda or simply Fulla Kunda, and Jakaba
became known as Kuntaur Jakaba or simply Jakaba. And, the Jakaba folks,
at least, the elders who know the history still call me "Njati" (host) in
reference to my grand fathers founding the area and giving them land to
settle and build their own village. When my paternal grand father died,
my dad was still in school at Armitage, which was meant only for sons of
chiefs at the time , I am told. Therefore, my maternal grand father,
Noperi Jawo took over the village leadership and today, I think my uncle,
Dikory is heading the village. I have not been to the area for a long
time, so may be when you get some time you can fill me in. I am told by
Dr. Bojang, of Gambia College, that the area has changed.
But anyway, the Danish seem to be doing good deeds back home, and
I hope that our folks over there take good advantage of it. And, that the
rest of us continue do what we can to help Gambian Education. If there
is a way that I can be part of this Kuntaur project, I will be glad to
participate.
Thanks. Musa



----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from relay22.mail.aol.com (relay22.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.68])
by air11.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:12:25 -0500
Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu
[140.142.56.1])
by relay22.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id MAA16435;
Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:12:12 -0500 (EST)
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
id JAA28232; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:11:29 -0800
Received: from mx5.u.washington.edu (mx5.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.6])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
id JAA14150 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997
09:11:14 -0800
Received: from panther.Gsu.EDU (chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU [131.96.1.18])
by mx5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP
id JAA08049 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:11:09
-0800
Received: from localhost (chemsm@localhost) by panther.Gsu.EDU (8.8.7/8.7.3)
with SMTP id MAA06762 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997
12:11:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117115311.25837C-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:11:06 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <19971117155615.AAA30712@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 18:50:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: wrong route
Message-ID: <971118185033_-2041820253@mrin42.mail.aol.com>

Hey Musa,
At least the message prompted me to reminesce about my childhood home a bit.

Jabou.


My last nmessage to Modou Camara was not intended to be sent to the
general Gambia L. It was meant to be sent to his private email, somehow
something went wrong and I am trying to figure it out because this is the
second time it has happened to me. My appologies.
Musa



----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from relay27.mail.aol.com (relay27.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.27])
by air16.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:12:52 -0500
Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu (lists3.u.washington.edu
[140.142.56.3])
by relay27.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id TAA05565;
Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:09:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
id QAA01820; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:09:07 -0800
Received: from mx2.u.washington.edu (mx2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.7])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
id QAA30626 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997
16:08:41 -0800
Received: from panther.Gsu.EDU (chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU [131.96.1.18])
by mx2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP
id QAA07293 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:08:38
-0800
Received: from localhost (chemsm@localhost) by panther.Gsu.EDU (8.8.7/8.7.3)
with SMTP id TAA15179 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Mon, 17 Nov 1997
19:08:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971117190533.7382B-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:08:31 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: appology
In-Reply-To: <19971117155615.AAA30712@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:07:55 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: My take..........
Message-ID: <19971119010755.4248.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Ndey Kumba,

Thank you very seriously for the kind remarks...I knew you'll make my
day. God bless ya!! My response is interspersed in yours below:

>Jainaba,
>
>Now I am ready to make you day. I see you are trying really hard to
>provoke me to stoop to you level, and that I refuse to do!!!

How hard am I trying to provoke you??? You said you gotta run...I prayed
for you to do so in peace. Would you rather prefer a curse??? For your
info., I don't have enemies...so I "curse" nobody.

>What did that I say in my posting that so terrible to warrant your
>insulting my intelligence??? All I was trying to say is that the
>Gambian consulate should provide some assistance to the Jallow >family,
no matter how little.

Ndey, there has been a lot of talk on this forum since I joined.
However, there is very little action...that's why I said that talk is
cheap, for once WE (including myself) should put up or shut up!!! This
statement is meant to be a challenge for us to for once make a
difference. What happened to our education project??? We only get the
same ideas recycled every couple of months or so (eg. donation of
books). I am positive that the topic will come up again in a few months
time. That's what I meant by that statement.

We should also try in as much as possible to make the government
irrelevant in our day to day activities. This is one of the main
problems facing our continent...big government, taking care of most of
the bills. The consulate said they don't have the funds...what's wrong
with that. Why should we fire missiles because of that???

>This List being a democracy forum, you have every right to disagree
>with my posting. What I did not appreciate is the fact that you
>twisted what I said just to serve your purpose.

Yessss (as Marv "bite me" Albert) would say, I do agree with you that
the list is a democratic forum. My view of the internet is: A medium of
communication, some of which is in an open unrestricted forum and some
of which is in a restricted forum. My view is that Gambia-l is like a
town-square, in which at one point in time there might be love-talk,
insults, debate, and other forms of verbal exchange. Unlike a military
parade ground, there is no sergeant-major to make sure everyone is in
line.

If you feel that I twisted what you said to "serve my purpose", please
accept my apology.

>You are certainly entitled to saying whatever is on your mind, but
>please do not ever use me AGAIN as a scapegoat to get you points
>across!!! Get it???

Scapegoat???? Hmmm......atleast I agree with you that I am entitled to
my opinion.

>You seem to have this thing for pushing buttons to test what makes
>others tick, well my buttons cannot be triggered that easily!!!

How did you come up with such an observation??? Oh, I see...it must be
because of the unkind words directed at your friend. Oh well, what else
can I say!!!

>Tell me something, what is your real reason for being on this list???
>If you asked me, you sure do seem to have a hidden agenda. Come out
>and state why you are really a member of Gambia-l!!!

Since when did it become a requirement to voice out one's reasons for
being a gambia-l member??? Please continue to agree to disagree with me
if you will...don't try to be ridiculous. Must I have a hidden agenda to
disagree with you.

>If you think for a second that you tactics of personal attacks,
>intimidation and fact twisting is going to deter me from speaking my
>mind, well then think again!!!

I can't understand the statement above..care to help a sister?? By the
way, you shouldn't feel intimidated by a 23 (almost 24) year old lady
sitting behind a computer monitor.

>If you think a stinky attitude like yours is what is going to
>scare people, oh boy, are you wrong!!!

Totally uncalled for!!! It takes someone with a similar attitude to
....... NEVERMIND!!!! I don't want to be disrespectful to the rest of the
list.

>I suggest that you choose someone else for you mud slinging campaign,
>and leave me in peace.

That's why I wished you well when you said you gotta run...again please
go in peace.

>I am in no mood whatsoever, for any confrontation. This is the last
>time you will hear from me on this topic.

Likewise. I hope you stick by your promise.

>For those of you who find this posting offensive, please forgive me.

Why decide to send it to a public forum then????

Jianaba.

>Ndey Kumba
>
>PS: I will always go in peace with or without your blessing. So,
>please save you blessing for someone who cares.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:39:13 -0500 (EST)
From: BAKSAWA@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Obituary
Message-ID: <971118203913_-1975053353@mrin41.mail.aol.com>

Daddy Sang:

As per your request, Alieu's family can be contacted as follows:

Momodou Sireh Jallow (Alieu's younger brother)
TELEPHONE #: (913) 262-4778
ADDRESS: 5606 Floyd, #1A
Overland Park, Kansas 66202

I spoke to my cousin this evening (Rose Oshaia) and she said people have been
calling them to offer their support to Momodou Sireh; and praying for Alieu
as well. Rose would like to thank everyone on behalf of the family, for
their kindness and generousity.

Thanks.



Awa Sey




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:49:11 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: My take as per private postings......
Message-ID: <19971119014911.218.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Gambia-lers,

Usually most of us who, by honest mistake, post private notes to the
list apologise right away when told about it. One would expect closure
since there are other issues at hand to be discussed...but, for someone
to cease this opportunity for family glorification is way beyond me!!!!

I just feel that gambia-l is not a forum for private correspondence...NO
OFFENCE INTENDED!!! Just my two Canadian cents!!!

Jainaba.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 21:53:42 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements
Message-ID: <34727EE6.863@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gunjur@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi list members,
>
> l just got a call from brother Habib who informed me that he has convinced
> the family to go ahead and bury sister Aji Sowe here as opposed to sending
> the body home. The burial will be Thursday in Maryland. l will post more
> details as l get them. For those brothers in the vicinity, please make every
> effort to attend the burial.l am sure this small gesture will mean a lot to
> the family. Thanks.
>
> Jabou Joh.

Jabou with the permission of the family I have the details of the
arrangements.
The sister's body will be taken from the medical examiner's office in
Baltimore to the Universal Funeral Home in Dc- 411 Kenedy street Nw-
Secondly after the proper washing by muslim women and according to the
sunnah of the prophet(pbuh),the funeral will take place at Muslim
Community Center at 15200 new hamphshire ave Silver spring Md.Then to the
George Washington cemetery at Riggs road Adelphi Md in the Islamic
section.
Thanks to Alhagi Mohamed Lamara Barry( who was talking to the family and
asked me of the alternatives of burrial here) for his support and all the
Gambian and non Gambian 's financial support to ensure a descent funeral.
We were told one Gambian group gave one thousand dollars today. May allah
bless them and all who helped out.
Agie Sowe also was lucky to win the green card lottery which would have
even helped both her and the husband who as Moe Jallow rightly said is
the man who commited the crime (alledgely)
Jabou, after the family got the options they decided to bury here ( the
sister Fatou sowe got her mother's permission). I think it was a good one
and we all should follow the right path unless we have enough money to
fly the body home as soon as possible to avoid embalming the body or
other unacceptable means. I commend the decision.

Habib Diab Ghanim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:06:48 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: Obituary
Message-ID: <347281F8.3083@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

BAKSAWA@aol.com wrote:
>
> Daddy Sang:
>
> As per your request, Alieu's family can be contacted as follows:
>
> Momodou Sireh Jallow (Alieu's younger brother)
> TELEPHONE #: (913) 262-4778
> ADDRESS: 5606 Floyd, #1A
> Overland Park, Kansas 66202
>
> I spoke to my cousin this evening (Rose Oshaia) and she said people have been
> calling them to offer their support to Momodou Sireh; and praying for Alieu
> as well. Rose would like to thank everyone on behalf of the family, for
> their kindness and generousity.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Awa SeyI also spoke to Rose Oshia and the other Moe Jallow (the desceased
brother) We had a similar case here in Washington when Momodou Jallow -
no relation to Atlanta Moe presumeably- was on life support until he
died. Unlike this Kansas case which we all know about Modou Jallow's case
was NOT known to any Gambian even his brother found out later.
Please keep up the contact and the younger folks remember death can come
to anyone of us regardless of age . my message to the younger nephews and
neices remember keep in touch before we are forced to find out about you
in a similar circumstance.
Wasalaam
please no offense meant -just a reminder to the younger generation.
peace
habib

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:01:07 PST
From: "EBRIMA JOBE" <jebrima@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re:Introduction
Message-ID: <19971119040107.8258.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Hello Members,

My name is Ebrima Jobe.I was born in Banjul,but my home village is Ngerr
in the North Bank Division not very far from Farafenni.I am studying in
Malaysia.I am in my first year in the Economics and Management Faculty.

Best regards
Ebrima Jobe.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:27:50 -0000
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Color
Message-ID: <B0000017429@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit


Gambia-L.

Just a short comment here:

>This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred
>to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart)
>should either put up or shut up.

-Actually, as far as I know, the word "neger" is a word coming from the word
"negro" meaning Black in Spanish (Now where did I here the word Black used before?!? And from whom
?!?).
My understanding is that it is used as a polite word (esp.among older people) for
describing a person of dark skincolor.
It is rather clumsily I admit considering that the word has negative historical use,
but mostly it is not used for anything else than description.

-Kind of unfair maybe to ask people of today to change their language based on the
assumption that the use of the color black in some hundred years or more old sayings
(i.e. black cat,blacklisted) is related to people of dark complextion.

-I think we can agree that we all can keep our MODERATED list voice (ref. capital letters/e-mail
ethics),
and move past the "shut up/put up" theme?!

>Black people are justified in patting on the back all blacks who marvel
>in any descipline, sports etc. This man's failure to see/accept that
>colour was and continues to be the main criteria used in denying blacks
>their human rights just goes on to reaffirm the contempt that colourless
>people have always had for colourful people.
>A. Kabir Njie

Nobody questions that there is people around the world that is racists and facists
and nazists, and that people of "color", poor people,large groups in
developing countries and of different ethnic groups are denied their human rights.
I am really just asking the question if the solution to these problems are to
keep emphasising on color even if some "white" people seem to do it?!

-----------------------------

>Hi G-Lers,
>The question of colour is typical to any european country. Where the
>colour determine the individuality. It can't be wrong that
>Blacks are showing their identity through the issue of their race.
>I am not a black activist but i am proud to be black; i show it
>everywhere i got the opportunity to. The main reason to that ,it's
>that white show to us the colour of the skin has a big significance
>for them. I will just give a banal exemple: when you go to a big
>restaurant, you automaticaly pay people attention.

When I go to a eating place here in The Gambia, people pay me attention to?!
Maybe it is because of my lack of color?!?!
I actually have some fun in showing my very white legs in public.
It always get these funny looks from my fellow Gambian..

>It seem to be common that the White underestimate us, eventhough
>their stupid . The main problem is you can't convince them because
>they judge you by the colour of skin not by the content of your keen
>intellect. What a pitty !!!!!!!!!!!!111

What can I say to such a generalisation?!?

>When i see a black being successful , i get incredibly happy: when
>Tyson punch a white or Tiger Wood is leading the US open , You can
>imagine my happyness.
>White people don't need to be afraid of the awakening of black
>nationalism, they deserve it.
>Peace Chakys.-

Black nationalism??? Never heard that one before?! How do you do that??

---------------------------------------

Mr. M.W.Wayne wrote earlier:

>I have ignored some of the comments that Mr. Torstein has made in the past, (even though I feel
that a number of his comments >were tainted with racism) but I feel compelled to make at least a
brief comment at this point.
>I do hope that everyone has a good day.
>M W Payne

Dearest Mr. Wayne.

I am still waiting for examples regarding your insinuations about me tainting my mails with
racism..
I you lack some off my postings I'll be happy to resend it to you..

Best Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:22:11 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <971118232010_139159481@mrin52.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-11-18 14:20:59 EST, you write:

<< The assailants sprayed their victims with assault rifles and when they
ran out of bullets some of them used daggers to stab to death a number
of people, including a police officer."
>>
The sad part about this is that the attackers are linked or are claimed to be
doing this for the sake of Islam.

As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should
be totally condemned.

A good muslim does not go about killing innocent people.

momodou Jagana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:31:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <9F02BB7FF9@scholar.wabash.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS
>should be totally condemned.

That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I
believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not
saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We
should careful in how we present our views.

Ousman

> From: MJagana@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Another act of terror
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
> <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>

> As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should
> be totally condemned.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:41:48 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy or Ignorance......
Message-ID: <971118231315_507797301@mrin84.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-11-17 23:33:26 EST, you write:

<< I think uncle Sam is becoming the
aggressor in this issue instead of showing good
example to future world powers. >>


Dear Lamin,

I think you have a valid piont to be discussed. I just want to say that if it
comes to the middle east the US have a double standard policy. It has a harsh
policy for countries like Iraq and Iran.

However the state of Israel, is given a much more accomudating policy. This
is so outright that Netayahu, does not give a damn about the peace process
and he is dragging his feet towards peace.

The favouritism is so bad that, here in Montgomerry county (maryland). a
jewish boy killed a spanish boy, and later fled to israel. Where he considers
a safe haven, the US government has not taken any action whatsoever to
pressure Israel to bring the boy to justice.

Unlike the actions taken against Libya in regards to the Panam flight the
was bombed in scotland.

Also you have to understand that Iraq, is a threat to US interest in this
case the stability of the middle east ( oil supply), so UNCLE SAM, only looks
out for it's interest.

I personally do not support Saddam, but i think as a souviriegn nation iraq
should stand up and fight ( a fight that will countinue for a lont time)


momodou J

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:49:00 -0800 (PST)
From: badjie karafa sw <badjiek@unixg.ubc.ca>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue....
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971118222409.10191A-100000@netinfo2.ubc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Thanks for speaking frankly on the issue of tolerance in our Bantaba. We
must learn to debate intellectually on issues without being personal.
People can simply ignore or delete postings that they
find irritating than putting up an "attitude". Our level of understanding
of certain things could be differrent, so we can enlighten each other
without getting too offensive.

karafa Badjie
Path & Lab. Medicine
UBC

@e,

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Modou Jallow wrote:

> Ladies and gentlemen,
>
> I hope that the exchanges on the subject of "COLOUR" do not get out of
> hand. Since I was the one that 'unknowingly' brought it up in my QUOTE OF
> THE DAY, I would like to make a brief comment on debates that maybe
> sensitive in nature, such as "RACISM" and "COLOUR".
>
> Before I proceed though, let's consider the following scenario:
>
> A philosopher, a physicist and a mathematician were looking intently
> at an animal in the distance. First the philosopher spoke up.
>
> " That's interesting," he said. "I didn't know there were black sheep
> in this area".
>
> "Wait a minute" retorted the physicist. "You still don't know there are
> black sheep in this area; all you know is that there is a black sheep."
>
> "How do you prove that?" The mathematician sounded irritated. "All we see,
> and therefore all we have proof for, is that there is a sheep in this
> area, one side of which is black."
>
> Well, what can you infer from this intellectual conversation?
>
> Here we see that there are three different types of people. There are
> people who accept things on faith. There are others who accept facts only.
> There are still a good number who require proves. We are all so different
> and we can only avoid quarrels on this net if we are able to consider
> other people's writings as NO nonsense, as difficult a feat as it may be.
> Sometimes even when we believe strongly in our ideas and feelings we have
> to be willing to listen to others, unless of course it is disgustingly
> offensive in which case we make use of our DELETE button.
>
> I think it is really misleading that the first instinct of a lot of people
> on this forum is to attack profusely when they read something they
> disagree with or dislike. I think we need to rise above our angered minds
> and learn to objectively agree to disagree. I have had the honor and
> pleasure (on this forum), of reading the postings of some of the most
> knowledgeable Gambians I have ever come across. I have also had the
> displeasure of learning that there are some amongst us who may need to
> cool down their temper after reading what they think could be an offensive
> message.
>
> No hard feelings.
>
> Just thinking [aloud]
>
> Regards,
> Moe S. Jallow
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:03:50 GMT+1
From: "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: My take..........
Message-ID: <D39DDCC626F@amadeus.cmi.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Jainaba,
please stop quarreling in such an aggressive way with people on the
list. It really make me feel bad. Maybe it hits me even more because
you are my daughter's "toma". What used be a beautiful name to me is
about to become the name of a troublemaker.
Please, try some more peaceful ways of formulating your points.

Heidi Skramstad


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:03:19 PST
From: "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: The slave house in Jangjanbureh (Georgetown)
Message-ID: <19971119100342.8446.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain


> l went back to Georgetown and boy has it changed. l visited the
>house where all of the children in my family were born right on the
banks of
>the Gambia river, the former Maurel and Prom. The house has sunk in
about
>four feet or more and l silently stood to the side with years of
memories,
>good and bad coasting through my mind as the local boys took tourists
on a
>tour of the house, telling them that the basement under the house was
once a
>holding place for slaves to be shipped out.

Jabou,
I visited the basement of the former Maurel and Prom building but I
don't belive the stories by these local boys and one has to add a gram
of salt to most of it. The guy was trying to tell me that the old scale
under the veranda was used to weigh slaves and I told him that he was
wrong because this was the same mark/type of scale used for weighing the
groundnuts at the various buying stations.

We all know that the larger stone building on the opposite side of the
street was the slave house and it came as a surprise for me to hear that
this Murrel and Prom building had also been used for the slaves.
Perhaps there is someone on the list who can shed more light on the
history of the capture and transportation of slaves from Georgetown. I
am really interested to know.


Momodou

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:44:42 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: My take..........
Message-ID: <01bcf4d8$24a2e5e0$202385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Thanks alot Heidi! I think we can be brutally frank in expressing our point
of view without necessarily antagonizing everybody in this village.And keep
up the good work down there!


Regards Bassss!
-----Original Message-----
From: Heidi Skramstad <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: 19/ÑÌÈ/1418 06:02 ã
Subject: Re: My take..........


Jainaba,
please stop quarreling in such an aggressive way with people on the
list. It really make me feel bad. Maybe it hits me even more because
you are my daughter's "toma". What used be a beautiful name to me is
about to become the name of a troublemaker.
Please, try some more peaceful ways of formulating your points.

Heidi Skramstad




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:13:16 -0400 (AST)
From: Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca>
To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: new member
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95.971119090944.180976A-100000@is2.dal.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi Gambia-L,

The following Gambian student at Dalhouse want to join the bantaba.

Name: Mathew Belford
Address:ebbs@is2.dal.ca

Can you please list him
thanks for your good work
Fafa Sanyang



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:02:10 -0500
From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Re-tragic death of= burial arrangements
Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD4B@Cry1.prc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Hi members,

Just as sister Jabou stated, Aji will be buried here tomorrow at 1:30pm
in the muslim cemetry on Riggs Road, which is in Hyattsville, MD, I
think. May her soul rest in peace.

Soffie



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:20:16 -0000
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <B0000017485@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit


Gambia-L.

----------
> From: MJagana@aol.com
> As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should
> be totally condemned.
> A good muslim does not go about killing innocent people.
> momodou Jagana

Should not the above sentence sound more like:

"A good muslim does not go about killing." (period) ?!?

Torstein
The Gambia


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:00:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Adama Cham <A.Cham@reading.ac.uk>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Kuntaur Fullah kunda
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971119145329.17875B-100000@suma3.reading.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"


Thank you for reminding me of Kuntaur I use to visit there in those
days when my father was a trader for the U.A.C. At the moment my friend
Sorey Ceesay is the head master at the secondary school and Kebba is the
frequent visitor and he works for the V.S.O GAMBIA.
Bye A.B.CHAM


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:04:00 +0100
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: White sports in White America....
Message-ID: <3473013b.narud@relay.nsw.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt

Jai,
Whatever the pundits on this list may mean about you, I for one =

recognize talent from a distance when I see one. Amid all the talk about =
=

RACE, which no ****** can run away from,especially in Babylon (however =

much we try to delude ourselves) I saw in the "White Sports in White =

America" a beautiful reflection of an African mind.

It was only this morning on my way to work that I happened to read the =

piece, which had been in my bag for the past couple of days. When I put =
=

two and to together I realized that only a white mind (and a ****** mind =
=

- I know exactly where and when to use the word) can fail to see the =

literary beauty and potential in this magnificient piece.

I plan to spend the rest of the evening (before the football match) =

translating the posting in Norwegian so that I can read it to my children=
=

during the weekend. I hereby request your permission to do so. I'll show=
=

it to my wife first thing when I get home!

AND KEEP STANDING UP!

A. Kabir Njie.


----------
From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sent: 14. november 1997 11:08
To: ak; gambia-l; jai_diallo
Subject: White sports in White America....



> ----------
> From: Jainaba Diallo[SMTP:JAI_DIALLO@HOTMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 1997 8:08:12 AM
> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> Subject: White sports in White America....
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
WHITE SPORTS IN WHITE AMERICA...WHERE ARE MY PEOPLE????

I woke up early that faithful day. After starving for several hours, the
doorbell finally rang and the pizza man delivered. BBQ chicken wings and
some pizza (yeah!! I like cheese in the crust) finally joined me. I
dashed to the fridge to see what is in there to wash down the pizza. Oh
no!!! Damn....Budweiser, how did it get there? Oh well, since I was in a
happy mood, I didn't care...I'll drink anything. I dived into the pizza,
guzzled the budweiser as I cheered on. It was more of an amusing
spectacle for I didn't really care about the participants, or the
"sport" for that matter. Yet it gave me something to do on a rainy day
in beautiful Vancouver. I just sat down eating chicken and pizza,
occasionally licking my fingers and watched golf! Yes. Yes, I said
golf!!! So you thought it was soccer????

I've often wondered who came up with the "sport" of golf. I never quite
got into it. I didn't care about or for Tiger Woods. He's some kid
making so much money...while I am a poor full-time student. Who gives a
hoot. What I liked was the fact that despite the fact that once upon a
time in the good old US of A, seeing a black person who was not a caddy
on a golf course was like seeing a normal LaToya Jackson. Wow, a black
man is really kicking ass on national tv... on a golf course. Hey, I
need another budweiser to celebrate Mannn!!! Yes Mannn!!! Tiger won the
championship (the Augusta masters) and was told to prepare some good
collard greens, chicken etc..(soul food..yeah, I think that was what the
dude was refering to) when he takes the participants of next years
masters out. BTW, have you folks seen Soul Food (the movie) yet??? I
think it is the best black movie ever produced...bold statement, but
hey it's from the soul Mannn!!! O.K, Okay back to sports.

Some things we are just not accustomed to. Golf, for all intents
and purposes, has been sold as a "white sport." Ice Hockey, one
can understand. But golf has never been deemed a legit sport by
true sports buffs. Then again, being a sportsman has little to
do with being an athlete, so one can understand it's status.

So I thought and I thought and I thought. Why are there black sports
and white sports? What are the black sports? Basketball is one of
them. It's dominated by blacks. That's a fact. What are the white
sports? Hockey is one of them. It's dominated by whites. That's a
fact. There are several in-between sports, such that reflect the
idealistic "melting pot" theory of America. You know, like Football.
Yeah, football, were a black quarterback who wins the Heissman trophy
has a greater chance of being drafted into the NBA if he has basketball
skills than being drafted into the NFL. Charlie Ward of the Knicks
readily comes to mind.

FOLKS HERE's THE REAL DEAL...
The historical basis for many of these sports will explain why
some are dominated by one ethnic group. Take for instance hockey.
A bunch of white men chasing a black puck, with sticks. Sound
familiar? How about bungee jumping? Tie a rope around a person
and toss them down? Sound familiar? Ever see a black person bungee
jump (mindful of his history) and not be nervous? Man, these people
perfected that "sport" on us, now you expect us to bungee jump? How
about horseback riding? Let's not even go there. Shall we continue?
Going for a walk in the woods, Sailing (a la the America's cup). I'm
sure you see where this is going. Sailing, sailing, that's why there are
black people here in north america in the first place. And do you ever
see a black man in the American swim team (at the olympics)? Shoot, if
we could swim we wouldn't be here no how. You know?

So go ahead Mr. Tiger Woods. I don't know you, and probably never will.
Don't know what you stand for, probably don't care. I have
my own troubles to deal with. But every now and then, when I turn on
the TV and see a black man kicking ass on a golf course--the last
physical bastion of the supremacist mentality (we'll get to the
economics one day), then its okay with me.

Cheers,

Jainaba.

P.S: Brother Moe, I do enjoy reading your postings...the the last one
was however, kind of ....anyways lets move on. As our mutual brother in
the land of the black gold would say "Keep up the good work down there"

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
R=E5dhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:05:51 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Kuntaur Fullah kunda
Message-ID: <3473004F.6570@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Adama Cham wrote:
>
> Thank you for reminding me of Kuntaur I use to visit there in those
> days when my father was a trader for the U.A.C. At the moment my friend
> Sorey Ceesay is the head master at the secondary school and Kebba is the
> frequent visitor and he works for the V.S.O GAMBIA.
> Bye A.B.CHAM
My father was a trader at KTR (short form of Kuntaur)He was known as Pa
Ali Diab. Seyfo Dodou Ndow worked for him after coming back from Burma
during the second world War and also lived right next to our house.
do you remember Mr Kah ?
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:11:12 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <34730190.4C80@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

tgr@commit.gm wrote:
>
> Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> via Commit
>
> Gambia-L.
>
> ----------
> > From: MJagana@aol.com
> > As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should
> > be totally condemned.
> > A good muslim does not go about killing innocent people.
> > momodou Jagana
>
> Should not the above sentence sound more like:
>
> "A good muslim does not go about killing." (period) ?!?
>
> Torstein
> The Gambia
I agree, Torstein. No one has the right to kill anyone, wether Arab
,Jew, muslim or of any race .Period.
We just had a case of A Gambian sister who was mercelessly strangled by
her own husband. He had no right to kill regardless of religion or race.
Observation
The media really got the author of that piece because that is really the
intentional in my opinion.
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:10:38 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Help...anyone?
Message-ID: <9711191510.AA56788@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Good morning G-Lers,

Does anyone have (or know where I could get) the latest Census report for
the Gambia. Any year after 1990 would be fine. I need ASAP.

Please send to my private address below.

Thank you.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:17:03 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy or Ignorance......
Message-ID: <347302EF.7AE7@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MJagana@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-11-17 23:33:26 EST, you write:
>
> << I think uncle Sam is becoming the
> aggressor in this issue instead of showing good
> example to future world powers. >>
>
> Dear Lamin,
>
> I think you have a valid piont to be discussed. I just want to say that if it
> comes to the middle east the US have a double standard policy. It has a harsh
> policy for countries like Iraq and Iran.
>
> However the state of Israel, is given a much more accomudating policy. This
> is so outright that Netayahu, does not give a damn about the peace process
> and he is dragging his feet towards peace.
>
> The favouritism is so bad that, here in Montgomerry county (maryland). a
> jewish boy killed a spanish boy, and later fled to israel. Where he considers
> a safe haven, the US government has not taken any action whatsoever to
> pressure Israel to bring the boy to justice.
>
> Unlike the actions taken against Libya in regards to the Panam flight the
> was bombed in scotland.
>
> Also you have to understand that Iraq, is a threat to US interest in this
> case the stability of the middle east ( oil supply), so UNCLE SAM, only looks
> out for it's interest.
>
> I personally do not support Saddam, but i think as a souviriegn nation iraq
> should stand up and fight ( a fight that will countinue for a lont time)
>
> momodou J

Momodou it is what we call double standard.
We have seen and heard of historically .Example in South africa where it
was tought to do as they say Not to as they do -meaning the preachers of
the former Aparthiet government.
peace
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:17:55 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <34730323.FDF@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ousman Gajigo wrote:
>
> >As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS
> >should be totally condemned.
>
> That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I
> believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not
> saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We
> should careful in how we present our views.
>
> Ousman
>
> > From: MJagana@aol.com
> > Subject: Re: Another act of terror
> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
> > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
>
> > As a muslim, I think such acts of ARAB (different from Islam) MADDNESS should
> > be totally condemned.
> >
Well said Ousman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:21:24 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Obituary
Message-ID: <347303F4.4F9C@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Habib Ghanim wrote:
>
> BAKSAWA@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Daddy Sang:
> >
> > As per your request, Alieu's family can be contacted as follows:
> >
> > Momodou Sireh Jallow (Alieu's younger brother)
> > TELEPHONE #: (913) 262-4778
> > ADDRESS: 5606 Floyd, #1A
> > Overland Park, Kansas 66202
> >
> > I spoke to my cousin this evening (Rose Oshaia) and she said people have been
> > calling them to offer their support to Momodou Sireh; and praying for Alieu
> > as well. Rose would like to thank everyone on behalf of the family, for
> > their kindness and generousity.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Awa SeyI also spoke to Rose Oshia and the other Moe Jallow (the desceased
> brother) We had a similar case here in Washington when Momodou Jallow -
> no relation to Atlanta Moe presumeably- was on life support until he
> died. Unlike this Kansas case which we all know about Modou Jallow's case
> was NOT known to any Gambian even his brother found out later.
> Please keep up the contact and the younger folks remember death can come
> to anyone of us regardless of age . my message to the younger nephews and
> neices remember keep in touch before we are forced to find out about you
> in a similar circumstance.
> Wasalaam
> please no offense meant -just a reminder to the younger generation.
> peace
> habib
correction
Sorry, what I meant to say is that we DID not know about the Washington
case as quickly as we know about the Kansas case.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:21:36 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Help...anyone?
Message-ID: <9711191521.AA36324@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>
> Good morning G-Lers,
>
> Does anyone have (or know where I could get) the latest Census report for
> the Gambia. Any year after 1990 would be fine. I need ASAP.
>
> Please send to my private address below.

Oops..I forgot to give my email address. It is: mjallow@sct.edu

Thanks.

Moe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:29:06 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Obituary
Message-ID: <347305C2.36E4@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

SANG1220@aol.com wrote:
>
> Is there an account set up for those who want to contribute towards funeral
> expenses for our late brother and also please provide a phone number where
> one can call. Please do not expect the gambian embassy to help, they probably
> can't even afford to pay there staff.(laugh)
> Thanks
> Daddy Sang

Sang
I may also add that it is not the responsibility of the Embassy to burry
anyone but they can sure help like Tombong used to do. He personally
came and asked for any assistance he could do which made a difference.
Wether it was personal or the Embassy policy , it was a kind gesture.
( and moral support too-it is not financial always that counts)
Habib
ps Are you enjoying the snow yet??
hg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:33:25 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue....
Message-ID: <34738554.325E@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi!
To add to this. It takes a lot of courage to sit down and write
something that is to be viewed by hundreds. Plus time and effort. The
least we can do is appreciate the effort. If we disagree with something
that is written, we have every right to do so. Let=B4s however try to
disagree as mature individuals in a respectful manner. I would like to
assume that we are all intellectuals (like the person who originally
gave this thread its name). Our disagreements would carry more weight if
they are presented with counter arguments and proof rather than mere
dismissal. =

It is impossible to write something that will be favourably viewed by
all. The reason is obvious. We all have different backgrounds,
education, experience, beliefs etc. My sense can be everybody else=B4s
nonsense and vice versa. My sense does not however give me a right to
treat everybody else=B4s sense as nonsense. The right thing to do is to
put up arguments as to why I believe someone else=B4s arguments are
faulty. That will create a healthy environment to debate issues that are
important to us as Gambians and friends. Just my pocket change. Thanks.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

badjie karafa sw wrote:
> =

> Thanks for speaking frankly on the issue of tolerance in our Bantaba. W=
e
> must learn to debate intellectually on issues without being personal.
> People can simply ignore or delete postings that they
> find irritating than putting up an "attitude". Our level of understandi=
ng
> of certain things could be differrent, so we can enlighten each other
> without getting too offensive.
> =

> karafa Badjie
> Path & Lab. Medicine
> UBC
> =

> @e,
> =

> On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Modou Jallow wrote:
> =

> > Ladies and gentlemen,
> >
> > I hope that the exchanges on the subject of "COLOUR" do not get out o=
f
> > hand. Since I was the one that 'unknowingly' brought it up in my QUOT=
E OF
> > THE DAY, I would like to make a brief comment on debates that maybe
> > sensitive in nature, such as "RACISM" and "COLOUR".
> >
> > Before I proceed though, let's consider the following scenario:
> >
> > A philosopher, a physicist and a mathematician were looking intently
> > at an animal in the distance. First the philosopher spoke up.
> >
> > " That's interesting," he said. "I didn't know there were black sheep=

> > in this area".
> >
> > "Wait a minute" retorted the physicist. "You still don't know there a=
re
> > black sheep in this area; all you know is that there is a black sheep=
=2E"
> >
> > "How do you prove that?" The mathematician sounded irritated. "All we=
see,
> > and therefore all we have proof for, is that there is a sheep in this=

> > area, one side of which is black."
> >
> > Well, what can you infer from this intellectual conversation?
> >
> > Here we see that there are three different types of people. There are=

> > people who accept things on faith. There are others who accept facts =
only.
> > There are still a good number who require proves. We are all so diffe=
rent
> > and we can only avoid quarrels on this net if we are able to consider=

> > other people's writings as NO nonsense, as difficult a feat as it may=
be.
> > Sometimes even when we believe strongly in our ideas and feelings we =
have
> > to be willing to listen to others, unless of course it is disgustingl=
y
> > offensive in which case we make use of our DELETE button.
> >
> > I think it is really misleading that the first instinct of a lot of p=
eople
> > on this forum is to attack profusely when they read something they
> > disagree with or dislike. I think we need to rise above our angered m=
inds
> > and learn to objectively agree to disagree. I have had the honor and
> > pleasure (on this forum), of reading the postings of some of the most=

> > knowledgeable Gambians I have ever come across. I have also had the
> > displeasure of learning that there are some amongst us who may need t=
o
> > cool down their temper after reading what they think could be an offe=
nsive
> > message.
> >
> > No hard feelings.
> >
> > Just thinking [aloud]
> >
> > Regards,
> > Moe S. Jallow
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:14:40 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue....
Message-ID: <01bcf506$3d43e580$142385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Your this 'Pocket Change" makes a lot of sense.Thanks for the clarity of
purpose and keep up the good work down There!


Regards Basss!
-----Original Message-----
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: 20/ÑÌÈ/1418 12:29 Õ
Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue....


Hi!
To add to this. It takes a lot of courage to sit down and write
something that is to be viewed by hundreds. Plus time and effort. The
least we can do is appreciate the effort. If we disagree with something
that is written, we have every right to do so. Let´s however try to
disagree as mature individuals in a respectful manner. I would like to
assume that we are all intellectuals (like the person who originally
gave this thread its name). Our disagreements would carry more weight if
they are presented with counter arguments and proof rather than mere
dismissal.
It is impossible to write something that will be favourably viewed by
all. The reason is obvious. We all have different backgrounds,
education, experience, beliefs etc. My sense can be everybody else´s
nonsense and vice versa. My sense does not however give me a right to
treat everybody else´s sense as nonsense. The right thing to do is to
put up arguments as to why I believe someone else´s arguments are
faulty. That will create a healthy environment to debate issues that are
important to us as Gambians and friends. Just my pocket change. Thanks.
Buharry.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >
> >



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:15:47 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: cab drivers's murder
Message-ID: <347310B3.218C@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

with permission obtained I submit the following


Africa News Service
17-NOV-97

NEW YORK, (PANA, 11/17/97) - A notorious New York street
gang called
the "Bloods" initiates its new members by requiring them
to slash a stranger
across the face, or even kill.

Three days ago, a Senegalese taxi driver, Elhadji Gaye,
was killed by two
female members of the bloods gang in what police believe
was possibly a part of
the gang's initiation rite.

Gaye was the latest of 20 taxi drivers from Senegal slain
in the city over the past
few years. An estimated 20,000 Senegalese immigrants live
in the New York
City area, many working as taxi drivers, street vendors
or electronics and cloth
traders.

A hardworking devout Muslim who prays five times days and
neither smokes
nor drinks, Gaye, 33, was shot in the back of the head at
4.40 a.m. Friday after
he picked up two women members of the Bloods.

Police said he drove the two women around east Harlem for
a short time before
he apparently began to sense trouble. One woman sat in
the front seat, and the
other in the back. One of them, Martha Nelson, 17, who
goes by the street
name "Love", apparently fired the shot.

Nelson and her companion, Erica Colon, 22, had the
distinctive marking of the
Bloods gang burned onto their bodies, the police said.

Gaye, who was cruising along the streets of Spanish
Harlem on his customary
12-hour night shift, died two months before he was due to
return to home to
marry his Senegalese sweetheart he had courted over the
telephone.

He carried a picture of the slim woman sporting a white
boubou and braided hair
draped with beads who, friends and relatives in said in
New York said, he was
engaged to three months ago.

His cousin, Babacar Gaye, says the body will be flown
home this week.

Gaye came to New York in 1986 and, like many immigrants
from Senegal,
became a cab driver. Seven years later, after working
long hours and saving
every tip while at the same time sending money to his
family in Senegal, he
became co-owner of his own company, New Ways Car Service.

Despite his position as co-owner of the company, Gaye
still worked the late shift
from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m, seven days a week. He was always
working, his friends
said, saving money to realize the dreams of a lifetime.

He earned between 50 dollars and 100 dollars a night,
sometimes 100 dollars.
Soon he saved enough to buy a green Lexus LS 300.

Gaye, who lived in a three-bedroom apartment in Harlem
with four other fellow
Senegalese, including his brother, Code N'Daow, was by
all accounts a
hardworking, kind and likable man.

His fellow drivers described him as a friendly man who
was always ready to help
fellow African immigrants and others with a few dollars.

His cousin and partner at the car service, Serigne Gueye,
33, said: "Every time I
see him, he was laughing. He was a good friend of mine.
Any problem i had, I
could go and tell him my situation."

Ousane Gaye, a fellow driver but not related to him,
added: "I never saw him
argue with anybody. He stayed out of trouble. He had no
problems in the street,
or in the house, or anywhere. He did not smoke or drink
and he prayed five
times day. He was a good Muslim".

William H. Alee Jr, the chief of detectives investigating
Gaye's slaying, said "he
was a guy working for a living who didn't do anything to
anybody. From all
indications, he was a decent individual, a hard worker.
He was looking to make
a living, and they killed him."

Another of Gaye's relatives, Djim Cisse, 46, said: "The
people who killed my
brother, I want them killed. This was a good man."

The two gang members, who were arrested early Saturday,
have already been
charged with Gaye's murder, which has attracted extensive
media publicity with
New York's Daily News leading with a splash headline
"blood money" and a
picture of Gaye on the cover in its Sunday edition.

In recent months, the Bloods have attracted increasing
attention, although city
authorities say there is no connection between the local
gang calling itself the
Bloods and the large, well-organized group of the same
name in Los Angeles.

At a press conference Saturday, Mayor Rudoph Giuliani
said gangs in New
York are "an emerging problem" but "not a serious problem
the way it has been
in other cities, like Los Angeles, in which there are
large, large gangs and there is
a tremendous amount of crime attributed to the gangs."




Search the net:







Copyright © 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. A Time
Warner Company
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:53:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Had enough of Jai Diallo!
Message-ID: <971119115312_-1843593411@mrin44.mail.aol.com>

Jainaba Diallo,

If this little quip was intended for my note reminescing about Georgetown, l
will offer no appologies to you. l wrote it especially to share with my
brothers and sisters about growing up in our beloved country, and to perhaps
invoke some good memories of their own childhoods for them. l think that you
seem to mistake this forum as a gangster turf. l am sure there are an
abundant supply of ruffians up there in British Columbia (or whereever you
are) that you can get together with to vent out your deep seated hostility. l
suggest you file down those wild fangs fast sister, they are rather
un-becoming. This is a forum for intelligent, civilized and hopefully
productive interchange, and you seem to have trouble interacting with people
on these levels. If you find most of what we share offensive, l suggest you
unsubscribe from the list.

Jabou Joh.

Gambia-lers,

Usually most of us who, by honest mistake, post private notes to the
list apologise right away when told about it. One would expect closure
since there are other issues at hand to be discussed...but, for someone
to cease this opportunity for family glorification is way beyond me!!!!

I just feel that gambia-l is not a forum for private correspondence...NO
OFFENCE INTENDED!!! Just my two Canadian cents!!!

Jainaba.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from relay10.mail.aol.com (relay10.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.10])
by air05.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:33:14 -0500
Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu
[140.142.56.1])
by relay10.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id UAA03746;
Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:50:25 -0500 (EST)
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
id RAA03561; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:50:10 -0800
Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
id RAA25496 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 18 Nov 1997
17:49:50 -0800
Received: from hotmail.com (F57.hotmail.com [207.82.250.143])
by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP
id RAA29003 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:49:48
-0800
Received: (qmail 219 invoked by uid 0); 19 Nov 1997 01:49:11 -0000
Received: from 142.103.36.177 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:49:11 PST
Message-Id: <19971119014911.218.qmail@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:49:11 PST
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: My take as per private postings......
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Originating-IP: [142.103.36.177]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:26:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Color
Message-ID: <971119122559_-1709334752@mrin42.mail.aol.com>

l really feel that l must say something in Torstein's defense. l think that
the only thing that he seems to be guilty of, is having high ideals . His
voice rings among the sane voices throughout the ages, i.e those who, even
though realizing that there are indeed racists and racism, aim to direct
their focus and that of those around them ,to a less petty definition of
their fellow man. Are we looking for positive change, and how then can we get
it if we continue to define individuals by the actions of their ancestors and
disregard what they are saying to us. l think that we are intelligent enough
to judge people by their words and deeds and form our opinions based on that
and nothing more.

Jabou Joh

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:37:17 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Color
Message-ID: <9711191737.AA30036@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Jabou, you wrote:

> Are we looking for positive change, and how then can we get
> it if we continue to define individuals by the actions of their ancestors and
> disregard what they are saying to us. l think that we are intelligent enough
> to judge people by their words and deeds and form our opinions based on that
> and nothing more.
>
> Jabou Joh

Sister Jabou,

That was very well put. I think it was Lamin Marenah who, on a different
topic, said,
"Could anybody out there justify why the
"sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons"
and mind you, cause you might also be justifying the
"grandfather clause" in the U.S. segregation history."

I think the same justification could be applied your to your argument
also.

Thank you for your wonderful input.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:43:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Slavehouse at Janjangbureh
Message-ID: <971119124349_648416422@mrin86.mail.aol.com>

Momodou,
l remember that in the basement of the house, there were some metal rings
anchored to the cement pillars. l have seen the same things at Goree Island
in Senegal. l am not saying that this means there were slaves there, but with
the so called slave house so near, one could speculate that those who lived
in the house at that time had something to do with it, and perhaps kept some
of the captives in the basement. l do not know if Maurel and Prom actually
built the house, or if they found it already constructed. It would be
interesting to know. l once had a conversation with Dr. Sulayman Nyang about
life in Gambia during pre- colonial times and he knew quite a bit of
information about the "Sinyaras" for example. Perhaps he can shed some light
on this or give references.

Jabou Joh

> l went back to Georgetown and boy has it changed. l visited the
>house where all of the children in my family were born right on the
banks of
>the Gambia river, the former Maurel and Prom. The house has sunk in
about
>four feet or more and l silently stood to the side with years of
memories,
>good and bad coasting through my mind as the local boys took tourists
on a
>tour of the house, telling them that the basement under the house was
once a
>holding place for slaves to be shipped out.

Jabou,
I visited the basement of the former Maurel and Prom building but I
don't belive the stories by these local boys and one has to add a gram
of salt to most of it. The guy was trying to tell me that the old scale
under the veranda was used to weigh slaves and I told him that he was
wrong because this was the same mark/type of scale used for weighing the
groundnuts at the various buying stations.

We all know that the larger stone building on the opposite side of the
street was the slave house and it came as a surprise for me to hear that
this Murrel and Prom building had also been used for the slaves.
Perhaps there is someone on the list who can shed more light on the
history of the capture and transportation of slaves from Georgetown. I
am really interested to know.


Momodou

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from relay08.mail.aol.com (relay08.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.8]) by
air17.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 05:04:43 -0500
Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu
[140.142.56.1])
by relay08.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id FAA19405;
Wed, 19 Nov 1997 05:04:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
id CAA24031; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:04:31 -0800
Received: from mx3.u.washington.edu (mx3.u.washington.edu [140.142.13.230])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
id CAA24272 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997
02:04:14 -0800
Received: from hotmail.com (F55.hotmail.com [207.82.250.141])
by mx3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP
id CAA24969 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:04:13
-0800
Received: (qmail 8447 invoked by uid 0); 19 Nov 1997 10:03:42 -0000
Received: from 194.19.183.221 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:03:19 PST
Message-Id: <19971119100342.8446.qmail@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 02:03:19 PST
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: The slave house in Jangjanbureh (Georgetown)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Originating-IP: [194.19.183.221]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:55:18 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Subscription
Message-ID: <3473A696.1F2B@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi List Managers!
Marie Gillen has not received any mail for some time. Could you
please resubscribe her if she has been taken off the list? Her e-mail
address is: mariegillen@swipnet.se
Thanks.
Buharry.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:52:26 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Liberia on the US
Message-ID: <9711191752.AA43298@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I have also wondered why "no US president had made a state visit to Africa
since 1978."

Please, don't tell me it is only because of security reasons.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
----------------------------------------------------------------------

LIBERIA'S Taylor says U.S. has duty to support Liberia.

"...Liberia's President Charles Taylor says the United States has a duty
to support his war-ravaged country which was founded by freed American
slaves. In an interview with Reuters Television on Thursday, Taylor, who
won elections in July after seven years of civil war, said U.S. President
Bill Clinton should show more interest in Liberia and Africa. "The U.S.
and Liberia share a common history. Clinton is a great president who has
made tremendous progress in his country. He should do for Africa what he
has done for the rest of the world," Taylor said, speaking aboard his
plane taking him home from Ivory Coast after a visit to Taiwan.

Taylor wondered why no U.S. president had made a state visit to Africa
since Jimmy Carter in 1978. "I believe it is in President Clinton's
interest to support Liberia and I think Liberia could be a shining example
to the Clinton administration. Let Liberia be a showcase of his African
policy," Taylor said.

Freed American slaves founded Liberia in 1847 as Africa's first modern
republic. The United States was Liberia's biggest aid donor until the late
1980s, with the West African nation receiving more U.S. assistance than
any sub-Saharan state."

----------------------------------------
Source: Reuters



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:13:12 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: The Value of Time (fwd)
Message-ID: <9711191813.AA62052@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I have always admired the author of this piece though I do no know who he
is. It has been sent to the list before but I just want to share it with
the new members.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagine there is a bank which credits your account each morning with
$86,400, carries over no balance from day to day, allows you to keep
no cash balance, and every evening cancels whatever part of the amount
you had failed to use during the day. What would you do? Draw out
every cent, of course!

Well, everyone has such a bank.

Its name is TIME.

Every morning, it credits you with 86,400 seconds. Every night it
writes off, as lost, whatever of this you have failed to invest to
good purpose. It carries over no balance. It allows no overdraft.
Each day it opens a new account for you. Each night it burns the
records of the day. If you fail to use the day's deposits, the loss is
yours. There is no going back. There is no drawing against the
"tomorrow".

You must live in the present on today's deposits. Invest it so as to
get from it the utmost in health, happiness and success! The clock is
running. Make the most of today..

To realize the value of ONE YEAR
Ask a student who has failed his exam
To realize the value of ONE MONTH
Ask a mother who has given birth to a pre-mature baby.
To realize the value of ONE WEEK
Ask an editor of a weekly newspaper.
To realize the value of ONE DAY
Ask a daily wage laborer who has ten kids to feed.
To realize the value of ONE HOUR
Ask the lovers who are waiting to meet
To realize the value of ONE MINUTE
Ask a person who has missed the train.
To realize the value of ONE SECOND
Ask a person who has survived an accident.
To realize the value of ONE MILLI-SECOND
Ask the person who has won a silver medal in Olympics.

Treasure every moment that you have! And treasure it more because you
shared it with someone special...special enough to have your
time...and remember time waits for no one...





------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:21:15 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: The Value of Time (fwd)
Message-ID: <9711191821.AA58760@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Correction:

The first sentence should read:

I have always admired the author of this piece though I do no know who
he/she is.

It could well be a "she".

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:33:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Subscription
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9711191033.15025.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: X+0JNRnR6f7vsj0x94rJBw==

Hi,

I just added her.

sarian

> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:55:18 -0800
> From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Subscription
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Hi List Managers!
> Marie Gillen has not received any mail for some time. Could
you
> please resubscribe her if she has been taken off the list? Her e-mail
> address is: mariegillen@swipnet.se
> Thanks.
> Buharry.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:02:56 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: My take..........
Message-ID: <9711191902.AA60484@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Heidi, you wrote:

> What used be a beautiful name to me is about to become.....
>
> Heidi Skramstad

Jainaba is a beautiful name indeed.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:37:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Subscription
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9711191037.9197.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: QBB8RPo6W3No/CTClsElzA==

All,

Marie Gillen has been added to the list. Please send in your intro and welcome
aboard to gambia-l.

sarian

> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:55:18 -0800
> From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Subscription
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Hi List Managers!
> Marie Gillen has not received any mail for some time. Could
you
> please resubscribe her if she has been taken off the list? Her e-mail
> address is: mariegillen@swipnet.se
> Thanks.
> Buharry.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:13:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: new member
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9711191113.5919.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: +Iwf/j8EaFTcKOU91TU8Cw==

All,

Mathew has been added to the list. Welcome aboard and please send in your
intro to gambia-l.

sarian

> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:13:16 -0400 (AST)
> From: Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: new member
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Hi Gambia-L,
>
> The following Gambian student at Dalhouse want to join the bantaba.
>
> Name: Mathew Belford
> Address:ebbs@is2.dal.ca
>
> Can you please list him
> thanks for your good work
> Fafa Sanyang
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:08:38 -0600
From: Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>,
gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Color
Message-ID: <199711192014.MAA23774@mx4.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCF4F5.610ABDB0"

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------ =_NextPart_000_01BCF4F5.610ABDB0
Content-Type: text/plain

I do believe that if the actions of the sons/daughters of the ancestors
remain the same as those of the ancestors, in this age of
"enlightenment," the responses would remind the relations that this is a
new day and that we are not living in the same time.

I have found that treating individuals based on their behavior is much
preferable to treating an individual based on their socity's norms.
Many times a government's policy is different from the individual's
perspective.

Peace and Understanding!

Keretha

> ----------
> From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu[SMTP:mjallow@st6000.sct.edu]
> Reply To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 11:37 AM
> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Color
>
> Jabou, you wrote:
>
> > Are we looking for positive change, and how then can we get
> > it if we continue to define individuals by the actions of their
> ancestors and
> > disregard what they are saying to us. l think that we are
> intelligent enough
> > to judge people by their words and deeds and form our opinions based
> on that
> > and nothing more.
> >
> > Jabou Joh
>
> Sister Jabou,
>
> That was very well put. I think it was Lamin Marenah who, on a
> different
> topic, said,
> "Could anybody out there justify why the
> "sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons"
> and mind you, cause you might also be justifying the
> "grandfather clause" in the U.S. segregation history."
>
> I think the same justification could be applied your to your argument
> also.
>
> Thank you for your wonderful input.
>
> Regards,
> Moe S. Jallow
>
------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:06:15 -0500
From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <19971119.150617.3406.3.nahak@juno.com>

Listmanager, please subscribe Michael Gomez at this e-mail address:
nahak@juno.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:44:59 -0500
From: Sukai Gaye <sg125909@gwmail.kysu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: When Intellectuals argue.... -Reply
Message-ID: <s473179e.029@gwmail.kysu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline



Buharry,

I completely agree with what you wrote. We are all entitled to our
opinions but should also learn to agree and disagree with a little
touch of class, diplomacy and some maturity. The English
language is not so lacking in words and expressions that we
cannot air our views in a respectful manner and we should also
keep in mind that most of the time, we really don't know who we
are talking to on the line and should therefore not get personal
with anybody. Vulgarities are cheap and defensiveness is a sign
of insecurity.
Sukai Gaye.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:50:30 -0500
From: Sukai Gaye <sg125909@gwmail.kysu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Had enough of Jai Diallo! -Reply
Message-ID: <s47318e9.041@gwmail.kysu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: inline

Jainaba,
I don't know you personally, but just to act ignorant and stoop
down to your level for just a couple of seconds, I have three
words for you, GET A LIFE!!!!!!.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:27:16 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Color
Message-ID: <9711192227.AA19854@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Thank you Ms. Cash.

I think I can see where you are coming from and I quite agree with you.
>From my African American experience in the US, I wouldn't hesitate to say
that racism becomes more conspicous the longer one lives in the society.
For example, It took me almost 4 years of living in th US to actually feel
and understand racially biased comments eventhough I was living in the
predominantly white neighbourhoods. The "rookie" from Africa has no first
hand knowledge and experience of racism. It is learned (the hard way) as
one becomes more cultivated in the society. Most African Americans seemed
confused as to why Africans do not take racial comments against them very
seriously. It is not that they don't understand, but simply because it is
somehow new to them. Could this be a form of ignorance as they seem to
think? No, I don't think so. The African was not exposed to white racism,
atleast not that he was aware of.

In my opinion, this is why Africans seem to be more tolerant to white
people than their African American conterparts. They don't just accept the
preconceived idea that the "white man is always bad" the moment they see
him (After all, they were not directly and originally exposed to racism).
Instead they, unlike the African Americans, tend to judge the white man by
his character and behavior rather than past actions of his ancestors (i.e
slavery, lynching, segregation etc).

This is just to reaffirm your point.

Thank you.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow


> I do believe that if the actions of the sons/daughters of the ancestors
> remain the same as those of the ancestors, in this age of
> "enlightenment," the responses would remind the relations that this is a
> new day and that we are not living in the same time.
>
> I have found that treating individuals based on their behavior is much
> preferable to treating an individual based on their socity's norms.
> Many times a government's policy is different from the individual's
> perspective.
>
> Peace and Understanding!
>
> Keretha
>
> > ----------
> > From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu[SMTP:mjallow@st6000.sct.edu]
> > Reply To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 11:37 AM
> > To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Color
> >
> > Jabou, you wrote:
> >
> > > Are we looking for positive change, and how then can we get
> > > it if we continue to define individuals by the actions of their
> > ancestors and
> > > disregard what they are saying to us. l think that we are
> > intelligent enough
> > > to judge people by their words and deeds and form our opinions based
> > on that
> > > and nothing more.
> > >
> > > Jabou Joh
> >
> > Sister Jabou,
> >
> > That was very well put. I think it was Lamin Marenah who, on a
> > different
> > topic, said,
> > "Could anybody out there justify why the
> > "sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons"
> > and mind you, cause you might also be justifying the
> > "grandfather clause" in the U.S. segregation history."
> >
> > I think the same justification could be applied your to your argument
> > also.
> >
> > Thank you for your wonderful input.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Moe S. Jallow

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:40:09 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Color
Message-ID: <9711192240.AA57618@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Corrections:

Africans and African Americans in this contex mean Africans who came to
America and Black Americans respectively.

Note also that I may have sounded too generalistic but I am only speaking
about a small number of people (most or many).

Thank you.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

>
> Thank you Ms. Cash.
>
> I think I can see where you are coming from and I quite agree with you.
> >From my African American experience in the US, I wouldn't hesitate to say
> that racism becomes more conspicous the longer one lives in the society.
> For example, It took me almost 4 years of living in th US to actually feel
> and understand racially biased comments eventhough I was living in the
> predominantly white neighbourhoods. The "rookie" from Africa has no first
> hand knowledge and experience of racism. It is learned (the hard way) as
> one becomes more cultivated in the society. Most African Americans seemed
> confused as to why Africans do not take racial comments against them very
> seriously. It is not that they don't understand, but simply because it is
> somehow new to them. Could this be a form of ignorance as they seem to
> think? No, I don't think so. The African was not exposed to white racism,
> atleast not that he was aware of.
>
> In my opinion, this is why Africans seem to be more tolerant to white
> people than their African American conterparts. They don't just accept the
> preconceived idea that the "white man is always bad" the moment they see
> him (After all, they were not directly and originally exposed to racism).
> Instead they, unlike the African Americans, tend to judge the white man by
> his character and behavior rather than past actions of his ancestors (i.e
> slavery, lynching, segregation etc).
>
> This is just to reaffirm your point.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Moe S. Jallow

------------------------------
Go to Top of Page

Momodou



Denmark
10540 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2021 :  15:19:44  Show Profile Send Momodou a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:29:22 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: My take..........
Message-ID: <19971120002925.6276.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Heidi,

If you can't handle it, my only advice for you is: Please "baptize" your
daughter....give her another name!!!!

Jainaba.
*********************************************************************

>Jainaba,
>please stop quarreling in such an aggressive way with people on the
>list. It really make me feel bad. Maybe it hits me even more because
>you are my daughter's "toma". What used be a beautiful name to me is
>about to become the name of a troublemaker.
>Please, try some more peaceful ways of formulating your points.
>
>Heidi Skramstad
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:54:28 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: White sports in White America....
Message-ID: <19971120005432.23582.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Mr Njie,

I am really flattered by your kind remarks below....all the same, thank
you very much!!! I am glad to know that atleast there are some list
members who ponder about what I write rather than attacking me
unnecessarily.

So I hereby grant you my consent to translate it. Enjoy the football
game!!! Hope your team wins.

I AM STILL ON MY FEET AND WILL REMAIN SO...HECKLERS OR NO HECKLERS!!!

Very appreciative,

Jainaba.
*********************************************************************


Jai,
Whatever the pundits on this list may mean about you, I for one
recognize talent from a distance when I see one. Amid all the talk about
RACE, which no ****** can run away from,especially in Babylon (however
much we try to delude ourselves) I saw in the "White Sports in White
America" a beautiful reflection of an African mind.

It was only this morning on my way to work that I happened to read the
piece, which had been in my bag for the past couple of days. When I put
two and two together I realized that only a white mind (and a ******
mind - I know exactly where and when to use the word) can fail to see
the literary beauty and potential in this magnificient piece.

I plan to spend the rest of the evening (before the football match)
translating the posting in Norwegian so that I can read it to my
children during the weekend. I hereby request your permission to do so.
I'll show it to my wife first thing when I get home!

AND KEEP STANDING UP!

A. Kabir Njie.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:30:58 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Liberia on the US
Message-ID: <19971120033058.19034.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

>I have also wondered why "no US president had made a state visit to
Africa
>since 1978."

I thought Hillary just returned from a trip to Uganda and some other
countries in eastern and sounthern Africa(*grin*) :-)

Cheerio,

Jainaba.
>
>Please, don't tell me it is only because of security reasons.
>
>Regards,
>Moe S. Jallow

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:14:53 -0500
From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: color trouble..
Message-ID: <3473B93D.9BCF6EE5@mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Good day all,

Sorry for the delay in answering Mr. Torstein's query, and addressing the other issues raised but, work
has my hands tied, both day and night and I have just returned to my email, to find too many issues to
respond to. I will try to respond to Mr. Torstein first.

Mr. Torstein you wrote:

>Could you please specify for an ignorant "toubab" like me
>where I have tainted my views with racism?!
>In order to learn and change you have to listen to advices from different
>sources, so I would much apreciate it if you could enlighten
>me on this.

There is one string of comments which amplify your position on this issue. In your response to my Mr.
Njie, you made some interesting statements. The exchange went as follows:

>> Till this day blacks are attacked physically all over the "Western
> > world" by dint of our colour. If the victims are lucky they come out of
>> it alive. The day you are attacked physically in The Gambia/Africa it
>> will be to be robbed because some poor criminal needs food to eat, not
>> because of racial hatred.

> I have no statistics to prove you otherwise, but the little I have heard from the US
> is that a majority of dark skinned people are actually killed/attacked by other
> dark skinned people?! Also there seems to be certain areas in the US where a person
>with a light complexion really, really should not go?!

What Mr. Njie was pointing out, was the difference in the motivations for crime. He did not say that
crime was good in one case, and bad in the other, but he was pointing out what some of us know all too
well. In short, he was stating that crimes based exclusively on race, were exclusively perpetrated by
White people against people of color. The reverse is not true.

In your response, you first reply with the non-sequitur, concerning violent crimes of "dark skinned
people" against "other dark skinned people." This is undeniable, there are far too many violent crimes
committed here, and certainly Black people assailing Black people is an issue. However, this has
nothing to do with the issue. But, if this so called "Black on Black" crime is true, can the other
side of the coin also be true? A proliferation of Black on White crime? If both are true, then one
could come to no other conclusion from your argument that "dark skinned people" are inherently violent
and evil. Is this not a racist notion?

The idea that "there are certain areas in the US where a person with a light complexion really, really
should not go" is a common ploy used by many White racists and conservatives here, to justify both
White fear and police brutality within the Black communities and against Black people everywhere.
However, this apprehension is baseless and without facts. Where are these areas? Harlem is one area
which is often named.

Well, in the late ‘80s, in a White area called Howard Beach, where a Black motorist ran out of gas
(petro), and he and his passenger (another Black man) left the car to get something to eat before
getting the fuel. The two were chased and beaten by a White mob, for being in their neighborhood. One
of the men, in order to escape the mob, ran into traffic and was killed. The next day the news cameras
were out doing their journalistic investigation, and went around asking (White) community residents
about the matter. Many residents responded angrily, that they (the two Black men) shouldn't have been
in the neighborhood, especially at night. "After all, we cannot go to and are not safe in Harlem!"
Now, Harlem (not Haarlem) is a historic Black neighborhood in New York City of some 200,000 people
(unless you include "Spanish Harlem, in which case you can add roughly another 100,000 to that
figure). Although largely African American, there are people of all nationalities and regions living,
and working within Harlem. White people live in Harlem (not many, but a number do), quite a number of
White people work in Harlem, and this much maligned community has not shown any incident of color
hatred, manifested through an attack on a White person on the basis of his hue.

The singular incident which I could recall which peripherally supports your claim, was the isolated
case, after the verdict in the infamous trial of eight White police officers, who were caught on video
tape beating the hell out of a Black motorist who was speeding. The tape clearly showed that the Black
man, Rodney King, was on the ground, and eight police officers, were getting their daily exercise, by
viciously clubbing the grounded Rodney King. There was no resistence; there was no provocation by the
hapless King, however the man was beaten to a pulp, and then the police proceeded to beat the pulp! As
a result of the videotape, the officers were brought to trial, however the case was moved from the
jurisdiction of the incident to an all White community in California.

The all White jury, in the face of all the evidence - including the video tape, acquitted the White
officers. This signaled a rage within the Black community, that even in the face of irrefutable
evidence, that justice would not be served. Unfortunately, this rage manifested itself in the wanton,
and random beating of any White person within reach. An innocent White man, Reginald Denny, was
dragged out of his vehicle, and beaten unmercifully, by a Black mob. This, is the only case, which I
can recall, that a White person was ever beaten on the basis of his race.

All of this is to say, that under normal circumstances there is no record of "Black racism" as you
would like us to believe. But your racism prevails, when you provoke unwarranted fear of Black people
(in the USA) based on color, when the circumstances do not warrant it.

>> I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in one's people be source of
>> irritation
>> for someone else????

>So then it is Okey for me to say, horrray, a WHITE man just beat Tyson or Carl Lewis or
>whoever
>because "WHITES" are MY people?!?

In a historical context, one could never equate the two scenarios, precisely because Black
participation has traditionally been excluded from such activities. White participation has not, So
there is nothing new to White participation and therefore White winning. Once again, you overlook and
ignore, the historical and contemporary context of these responses. Perhaps, because White people have
always had high visibility in the record books, history books, and any other book you can think of, you
do not have a sense of urgency. However, as the statements of either: Black inferiority, or general
lack of fitness of Black people for anything worth merit, one by one fall down, through the efforts and
achievements of People of Color, I and others will cheer these achievements and cheer them LOUDLY and
WITHOUT APOLOGY!!! If you do not cheer, then that is your right; I understand it quite well; in fact,
I wouldn't expect you to cheer.

In 1936, the Black man Jesse Owens proudly knocked down some "Aryan" notions of racial superiority in
the heart of Nazi Germany, by defeating the best that the "Aryan" nation had to offer, by winning four
gold medals. Millions cheered that achievement (and continue to cheer similar accomplishments until
tomorrow.) Of course, there are also millions who jeered and lamented that achievement (and continue
to jeer and lament similar accomplishments until the twelfth of never.) Whereas Jesse Owens's victory
over these peculiar ethnic notions did not imply Black athletic superiority over White people, a notion
which you seem to want to ascribe to those of us who dare cheer Black achievement; but it did serve to
knock down a myth of Black inferiority in one arena of life (with implications extending to other
arenas.)

When the Brown Bomber, Joe Louis, defeated Max Schmeling, he not only defeated another boxer, but he
kicked the butt of a racist theory of White supremacy. The reverse has never been true, because Blacks
have never been in similar positions of power on a global basis. You see Mr. Torstein, the idea of
racism revolves around the issue of power and how that power influences collective behavior. Blacks
have never been in such positions of power to influence collective behavior, while the recognition you
receive as "toubab" has nothing to do with either power or behavior.

In looking at television in the 1960s, (before you were born) many of us cheered the few times we saw a
Black person momentarily appear on the television screen for the brief quarter of a second that he or
she would appear in a television commercial. I can remember those experiences vividly! Why? Because
we were traditionally excluded from participation in the larger society, nationally, and globally, on
the basis of color! Was this exclusion a situation of our (read, our = Black people's) creation? I
think that even you should see the point here. Again, the issues of power and behavior arise. My
annoyance stems from the fact that as we react to situations which have been thrust upon us, you feel
threatened because some of us feel a sense of solidarity, based upon common experiences of oppression
and the melanin we have in common.

>> And then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively
>> identify?

> I will defend to my death your right to define anything you like, but as a consept my
> personal
> belief is
> that it is not the best way to make peace among people from around the world.

Oh, I see, and you are saying that any sense of Black solidarity is responsible for that lack of
peace? Yeah, right! This is a common ploy utilized by those who are not concerned with our best
interest; "Blame the victim for being victimized." And any attempt to break out of the cycle of
victimization, meets with the criticism of those who benefit from our subordinate position.

>> If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride or the expression of a
>> positive Black
>> identity, then I suggest that is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to
>> resolve.

>A positive black identity?, where the important thing is that "MY COLOR" beat the bad
>"WHITE"
>people?!?

That is interesting. According to my understanding of your response there can be nothing like a
positive Black identity. Furthermore, I see that you have a problem of interpretation. I don't
remember characterizing events like you have. Why did you use the adjective "bad" to characterize
"WHITE people?" Is this something that I have actually written on this list in the above context? Or
is this a creation of your own mind? I would suggest "you look before you [make the inductive] leap"
This is your characterization, not mine. If one were to follow your characterization, then any team or
individual whom I support, would be contesting against an evil or "bad" opponent. So, when I cheer an
individual (whom I support), then it is obviously because the opponent was a bad and nasty team or
individual. Does this reasoning makes sense to you?

>> After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in the world.
>> The
>> Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed on a national level. Are the
>> Olympics, or
>> the type of pride which the Olympics foster wrong?

>You just said it my friend, the olympics being a big, wonderful mix of people from around
>the world
>of any
>color nuance competing on the basis of skills and talent and really not "COLOR"!!!

Again, thank you for conveniently missing the point. In the Olympics, people compete on the basis of
skill, training, and NATIONALITY. Nationality is a category which, can be and is framed to be
inclusive of some, but excludes others. Is this a problem for you? Probably not if I remember some of
your earlier posts correctly. You don't mind categorization on any other level than color. People
cheer for national pride in the Olympics. Team members cheer on fellow team members, not because of
the INTRINSIC qualities each individual team member has, but because they are TEAM MEMBERS! Well, for
me one team I am proud to belong to is the team, which wears the Black suits all day long, even if
there are some disgruntled team members who do not consider themselves to be part of the team. That
goes with the territory. And by the way, the paragraph you are referencing looks at the sources of
pride within the Olympics, not the idea of the bases of competition.

>> Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened
>> when Black
>> people express pride in themselves.

>I feel treathened by violent people, ignorant people, people with guns, fanatic people
>and people without humor, but you can beat your chest as much as you like for me,
>I will evaluate you by the things you do and not your "COLOR".

And that is fine. I will recognize you by whatever distinguishing characteristic you possess, not by
ignoring them. You keep confusing recognition, with evaluation, which are not the same. Admittedly,
one could simultaneously recognize and evaluate any phenomenon one chooses, however, this is not
necessarily the case. In an earlier post I seem to recall (and I am sure that you will correct me if I
am wrong) that you mentioned your resentment to people or children, specifically (I forget which one,
and have deleted that post) who see you and refer to you as "Toubab" This is the point of recognition
for the people who greet you as so. There is no evaluation of your character on the basis of this
designation. After all, neither your name nor your nationality are printed on your forehead for all to
see and read, so no one can refer to you in that manner, if they first meet you or develop nothing more
than a passing acquaintance with you. It is ridiculous for me to reference "that fruit" when I want to
refer to an orange in a bowl of apples. The orange in the midst of apples serves as its own
reference! Your whiteness in a land of Black people is a distinguishing characteristic. No rocket
scientist needed here. Like it or not, that is the reality. It is not a comment on your character or
personality, it is a comment on your appearance. Period.

>> For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you
>> would
>> suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes.

>I am humble and sometimes depressed in the face of history, but for myself I make my
>own
>reputation, and will speak up if people use my skincolor to define me.

That, again, is a problem with which you will have to live. It is either silly or extremely naive to
think that we arrive and act in the world independently of historic events or global social forces. We
are shaped by such events and forces, just as we play a part in shaping history and society.

>> If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The
>> Torstein argument
>> is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of
>> various
>> backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black folks, as to
>> why there
>> should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question is,
>> all
>> things being equal, that there should not be such programs. However, as we all know, All
>> Things
>> Are Not Equal! These programs, as well as the expression of Black pride are the historic
>> result of
>> the exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the larger arena.
>> Now, when
>> Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged basis of being
>> offensive to
>> some people?
>> M W Payne

> So the important thing here is to voice out color segregation but the other way?
> Should not the voice of opressed people fighting against colordiffences, be to
> fight against evaluating people based on color??!

Mr. Torstein, God created color differences, not me. I have no problem with the differences, as there
is nothing wrong with the varieties of human existence. Human beings however recognize and acknowledge
those differences (again, nothing wrong here), and may act upon those differences (there is a
possibility of foul play). My point is, that whereas you are prepared to deny the obvious, I am NOT,
because it is not inherently value laden. Different doesn't necessarily mean better; it doesn't
necessarily mean worse. It simply means DIFFERENT.

To express what is visibly apparent is not the same thing as segregation. You should try to recognize
the difference. I am not sure if you are ashamed of your color, but my thought is not to ignore it,
but to acknowledge it and move on. The history of my color travels with me, and speaks volumes of
history, both aloud and in whispers. It also speaks to the treatment I will receive in many situations
around the world. You and I walking the same path and going into the same facilities, will receive
different treatment, not because of our different characters, or by anything that is intrinsically good
or evil about any one of us, but rather because of the physical appearance. I cannot bury my head in
the sand and act as if, color doesn't matter. My denial can cost me my dignity or my life; and has
done so for my people in the past, in the present, and unfortunately, most probably in the future.

Right here in the good ol' US of A, a number of Black people (regardless of nationality, character,
educational background, or any of the host of characteristics you would insist that we examine first)
have lost their lives, simply because of their skin color. I have personally experienced dogs that
are trained to bark at and attack Black people exclusively!!! So, please don't lecture me, or attempt
to tell me how to approach life. You are far too young and inexperienced to do that.

>Best Regards,
> Torstein
> The Gambia

> BTW: if you look to the left on your keyboard,
> there is a "caps lock" function there that you
> might have overlooked.

Young man, other than this short remark, I will not respond to the above trifling comment. I have no
desire to stoop to that level, and I suggest we move to a higher plane of discussion/disagreement.

Thank you, God bless and may you all have a good day!

M W Payne


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST)
From: KTouray@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: suggestion
Message-ID: <971120003404_-53874598@mrin39>

The past few months have been very rough on the Gambians in the U.S.A .from
immigration problems to death, some of us have been going through a rough
time: it is my understanding that the immigration has raided some restaurants
and unfortunately some of the people detained are our own blood. I have also
realised that 4 gambians have passed away and family members partly depended
on us tto contribute some money to send the deceased home for proper burial.
Having thinking about all this, it occurred me that with the joint effort of
everyone in this country, we can easily send deceased home. i think if we set
up a foundation by making monthly or yearly contribution and holding at least
quarterly meetings we will be well informed of what is happening to all of us
and therefore help out with things that need to be taken care of.I know that
it is not as easy as it seems, but a little time from everyone can make it
happen.
This is just a suggestion and i will be very happy to hear your points of
view as we all know that two minds are better than one.I am willing to work
with anybody on this and hoping that we will all participate in it.
We all know that as inevitable as death is we will not want a close friend to
be kept in the morgue waiting for money to be sent home for burial let alone
ourselves or a family member.So please let us work together since this is
something beyond our control.
This does not have to be for only people in MD, anyone is welcome to be part
of it. After all we can always transfer funds from one bank to another and
therefore state to another.
I am expecting replies from all and feel free to call me on (301)565-9427 if
you would rather talk about it.
thank you all, Fatou Sanyang.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:47:41 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: color trouble..
Message-ID: <19971120054741.10120.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

M W Payne,

Thank you very much for the well thought-out, well illustrated response
to Torstein. The time and effort you put into it was certainly well
spent. It was quite refreshing to read...I owe you one!!!

As our mutual brother would say, "keep up the good work down there".

God bless and have a good day too!

Jainaba.



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 02:41:26 -0500 (EST)
From: MJawara@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re:tragic death - Cash Reward
Message-ID: <971120024125_595386827@mrin38>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.18494.mrin38.880011685"


--PART.BOUNDARY.0.18494.mrin38.880011685
Content-ID: <0_18494_880011685@mrin38.1707>
Content-type: text/plain

In a message dated 97-11-18 23:10:04 EST, you wrote:

<< We were told one Gambian group gave one thousand dollars today. May allah
bless them and all who helped out. >>

Monday Nov.17, The Gambian Support Group made a cash donation of $ 1000.00 to
the family of the deceased, Ms.Aji Sowe.A delegation of 5 members led by the
Chairman of the Group, Mr. Dembo Drammeh made the donation on behalf of the
organization.At the emergency meeting held on sunday Nov. 16, it was also
decided to offer a cash reward of $ 1000.00 ( $ 500.00 from the organizaton
and $ 500.00 total amount pledged by individual members ) to anyone with
information on the suspect. He's a fugitive and may or may not be in the
U.S.If you've any information, please call the Montgomery County Police, MD
or your local law enforcement agency.If your info. leads to the arrest and
conviction of the suspect, you'll receive the cash reward.
Herewith attached is a picture of the suspect.Hopefully, everyone will be
able to download the pic. without any problem.

In the wake of two unfortunate and high profile domestic violence cases, The
Gambian Support Group will be hosting a family oriented town - meeting to
discuss marital and other social issues.Hopefully, we wouldn't look too far
for speakers and counselors.There're Gambians with reputable character and
hold responsible positions...Medical Doctors, Professors, Senior Economists
at the World Bank and the I.M.F., Religious leaders, business men / women ...
..Also to be included to the list of speakers is a representative of the
Montgomery County Police , Domestic Violence Unit.
To those Gambians in the Washington Metropolitan Area, stay tuned...

Musa K. Jawara.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:54:00 +0100
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
To: Gambia-L@u.washington.edu
Subject: Help!
Message-ID: <3473efef.narud@relay.nsw.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt

Can the list managers be so kind as to remove temporarily the =

subscription of
Amadou.Kabir.Njie@Aviaplan.no.

Note!
I presently receivie two copies of each posting to Gambia-L as all mail =
=

to the above address is auto-forwarded to my current address at =

Amadou.Kabir:njie@nsw.no.(Please do not remove this one!!!; just the =

above)

Before I return to that address sometime in January I'll request a =

resubscription.

Thanks.

PS

Modou Camara, did you read the mails I posted to you. I didn't realize =

you were in The Gambia when sent them. Hoping to hear from you when you =
=

are less busy. Maybe you can carry out the above request personally.

A. Kabir Njie. =



---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
R=E5dhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:52:44 GMT+1
From: "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: 1993 Census
Message-ID: <D51AF353BDF@amadeus.cmi.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello Moe,

> > Does anyone have (or know where I could get) the latest Census report for
> > the Gambia. Any year after 1990 would be fine. I need ASAP.
You can get them at Central Statistics Department, Ministry of Finance and Economic
Affairs, Buckle Street. The 1993 Census is printed in several smaller
reports and they sell them at 30 D + postage. I have some of them,
but since I don't know what ASAP is, I don't know if it is included.

Regards


Heidi Skramstad

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:05:49 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: color trouble..
Message-ID: <01bcf5a4$42ace500$aa2385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Mr.Payne!
That was great analysis! I have learnt a lot; so thank
you and keep up the good work down there!

Regards Bassss!
-----Original Message-----
From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: 20/ÑÌÈ/1418 01:11 ã
Subject: Re: color trouble..


Good day all,


When the Brown Bomber, Joe Louis, defeated Max Schmeling, he not only
defeated another boxer, but he
kicked the butt of a racist theory of White supremacy. The reverse has
never been true, because Blacks
have never been in similar positions of power on a global basis. You see
Mr. Torstein, the idea of
racism revolves around the issue of power and how that power influences
collective behavior. Blacks
have never been in such positions of power to influence collective behavior,
while the recognition you
receive as "toubab" has nothing to do with either power or behavior.


Again, thank you for conveniently missing the point. In the Olympics,
people compete on the basis of
skill, training, and NATIONALITY. Nationality is a category which, can be
and is framed to be
inclusive of some, but excludes others. Is this a problem for you?
Probably not if I remember some of
your earlier posts correctly. You don't mind categorization on any other
level than color. People
cheer for national pride in the Olympics. Team members cheer on fellow team
members, not because of
the INTRINSIC qualities each individual team member has, but because they
are TEAM MEMBERS! Well, for
me one team I am proud to belong to is the team, which wears the Black suits
all day long, even if
there are some disgruntled team members who do not consider themselves to be
part of the team. That
goes with the territory. And by the way, the paragraph you are referencing
looks at the sources of
pride within the Olympics, not the idea of the bases of competition.

>> Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always
felt threatened
>> when Black
>> people express pride in themselves.

>I feel treathened by violent people, ignorant people, people with guns,
fanatic people
>and people without humor, but you can beat your chest as much as you like
for me,
>I will evaluate you by the things you do and not your "COLOR".

And that is fine. I will recognize you by whatever distinguishing
characteristic you possess, not by
ignoring them. You keep confusing recognition, with evaluation, which are
not the same. Admittedly,
one could simultaneously recognize and evaluate any phenomenon one chooses,
however, this is not
necessarily the case. In an earlier post I seem to recall (and I am sure
that you will correct me if I
am wrong) that you mentioned your resentment to people or children,
specifically (I forget which one,
and have deleted that post) who see you and refer to you as "Toubab" This is
the point of recognition
for the people who greet you as so. There is no evaluation of your
character on the basis of this
designation. After all, neither your name nor your nationality are printed
on your forehead for all to
see and read, so no one can refer to you in that manner, if they first meet
you or develop nothing more
than a passing acquaintance with you. It is ridiculous for me to reference
"that fruit" when I want to
refer to an orange in a bowl of apples. The orange in the midst of apples
serves as its own
reference! Your whiteness in a land of Black people is a distinguishing
characteristic. No rocket
scientist needed here. Like it or not, that is the reality. It is not a
comment on your character or
personality, it is a comment on your appearance. Period.

>> For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to
others, as both of you
>> would
>> suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes.

>I am humble and sometimes depressed in the face of history, but for myself
I make my
>own
>reputation, and will speak up if people use my skincolor to define me.

That, again, is a problem with which you will have to live. It is either
silly or extremely naive to
think that we arrive and act in the world independently of historic events
or global social forces. We
are shaped by such events and forces, just as we play a part in shaping
history and society.

Mr. Torstein, God created color differences, not me. I have no problem with
the differences, as there
is nothing wrong with the varieties of human existence. Human beings
however recognize and acknowledge
those differences (again, nothing wrong here), and may act upon those
differences (there is a
possibility of foul play). My point is, that whereas you are prepared to
deny the obvious, I am NOT,
because it is not inherently value laden. Different doesn't necessarily
mean better; it doesn't
necessarily mean worse. It simply means DIFFERENT.

To express what is visibly apparent is not the same thing as segregation.
You should try to recognize
the difference. I am not sure if you are ashamed of your color, but my
thought is not to ignore it,
but to acknowledge it and move on. The history of my color travels with me,
and speaks volumes of
history, both aloud and in whispers. It also speaks to the treatment I will
receive in many situations
around the world. You and I walking the same path and going into the same
facilities, will receive
different treatment, not because of our different characters, or by anything
that is intrinsically good
or evil about any one of us, but rather because of the physical appearance.
I cannot bury my head in
the sand and act as if, color doesn't matter. My denial can cost me my
dignity or my life; and has
done so for my people in the past, in the present, and unfortunately, most
probably in the future.

Right here in the good ol' US of A, a number of Black people (regardless of
nationality, character,
educational background, or any of the host of characteristics you would
insist that we examine first)
have lost their lives, simply because of their skin color. I have
personally experienced dogs that
are trained to bark at and attack Black people exclusively!!! So, please
don't lecture me, or attempt
to tell me how to approach life. You are far too young and inexperienced to
do that.


Thank you, God bless and may you all have a good day!

M W Payne




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:33:26 +0000
From: S Njie <S.Njie@commonwealth.int>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Subscription of New Member
Message-ID: <9E03E33001D23A00@commonwealth.int>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-disposition: inline
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Dear List Manager,

Could you please add Kebba B. J arju on the list.

His address is :

africa re@compuserve.com

Thanks,

S.G. N'jie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 06:13:03 -0600
From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: color trouble..
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971120055218.39cf957a@etbu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Mr Payne,
My hat off to you. Facts, rather than innuendoes should be the basis
for our debates. While i don't agree with everything you said, i salute with
vehement excitement your oratory, which at the very least was diligent, yet
concise to the point of a vertex. The historical and other social facts you
cited are beyond reproach. Excellent piece!!!!!

Mr Torstein, i personally think you are a well-intentioned person and i
agree that "color" should not be the basis with which to judge other people,
but like Mr Payne said, that is to deny the obvious. History is what shapes
this world. We either play the cards we are dealt by nature or risk being
traitors to our very existence.
To both of you, keep the high spirits alive. Once again Mr Payne,
congratulations on a magnificently crafted article. I just couldn't shut up
on this one. It was too good to go by unnoticed. Peace!

It's Tamsir.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 03:57:12 PST
From: "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, njies@commonwealth.int
Subject: Re: Subscription of New Member
Message-ID: <19971120115712.8367.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

>
>Dear List Manager,
>
>Could you please add Kebba B. J arju on the list.
>
>His address is :
>
>africa re@compuserve.com
>
>Thanks,
>
>S.G. N'jie
>

Mr.Njie,
The email address seems to be incorrect because there should not be a
space in the address. Please check with him or ask him to send a
subscription request to:

1. listproc@u.washington.edu

2.In the message area, he should write:
subscribe Gambia-L Kebba B.J Jarju


Note: The subject should be blank


regards
Momodou

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:03:48 -0500
From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <19971120.080350.3382.0.nahak@juno.com>


Listmanager, please unsubscribe Michael Gomez. at this e-mail address:
mbg@guinness.som.cwru.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:46:47 -0000
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: color trouble..
Message-ID: <B0000017781@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit


Dear Mr Payne & fellow G-llers,
I am just writing a quick commendation on a superb, genuine and heartfelt
piece. Sir, I think you have said it all, our so-called black nationalism
is not against other folks, it is as you rightly said, us sharing our
common experience mostly derived from our common heritage, the melanin in
our skin.
Again thanks for a superb piece, it was good for all of us and hopefully
gives the perspective in which our struggle should be viewed.
Musa


----------ps
Sir in wollof, we say there are two things about a human being, "hel" and "
ham-ham"
that is literally..good sense or sensible and knowledge..
now some people have good sense or are sensible,"( in wollof "am hel")
others have knowledge mostly learnt through schooling, training or
experience, (am ham-ham)
but some are endowed by The Almighty with Sense & Knowledge ( AM Hel ack
HamHam)
and in my humble opinion, you Sir, have been endowed with hel and hamham




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 05:25:14 PST
From: "Gassamaba omar" <kassama@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Member
Message-ID: <19971120132515.12251.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear list managers,
could anyone add brother Sarjo Marenah to the list
please<smarenah@hotmail.com>

Alabaraka

WAS SALAAM
gassamaba


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:31:11 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: suggestion
Message-ID: <347465CF.3CE2@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

KTouray@aol.com wrote:
>
> The past few months have been very rough on the Gambians in the U.S.A .from
> immigration problems to death, some of us have been going through a rough
> time: it is my understanding that the immigration has raided some restaurants
> and unfortunately some of the people detained are our own blood. I have also
> realised that 4 gambians have passed away and family members partly depended
> on us tto contribute some money to send the deceased home for proper burial.
> Having thinking about all this, it occurred me that with the joint effort of
> everyone in this country, we can easily send deceased home. i think if we set
> up a foundation by making monthly or yearly contribution and holding at least
> quarterly meetings we will be well informed of what is happening to all of us
> and therefore help out with things that need to be taken care of.I know that
> it is not as easy as it seems, but a little time from everyone can make it
> happen.
> This is just a suggestion and i will be very happy to hear your points of
> view as we all know that two minds are better than one.I am willing to work
> with anybody on this and hoping that we will all participate in it.
> We all know that as inevitable as death is we will not want a close friend to
> be kept in the morgue waiting for money to be sent home for burial let alone
> ourselves or a family member.So please let us work together since this is
> something beyond our control.
> This does not have to be for only people in MD, anyone is welcome to be part
> of it. After all we can always transfer funds from one bank to another and
> therefore state to another.
> I am expecting replies from all and feel free to call me on (301)565-9427 if
> you would rather talk about it.
> thank you all, Fatou Sanyang.Fatou
This is an excellent idea that I have been tryibg to push especially for
the cases of death for over twenty (yes -twenty) years in the DC area.
We have had cases in the early seventies occationally but it seems now to
be on a more frequent basis.
I have brought up the idea of just death insurance to cover the funeral
expenses alone. Ironically whenot comes to weddings or parties we in the
Gambian community do not have difficulty to raise funds but in cases of
death or immigration we all suddenly do not have money. Why?
Ousainu Mbenger and a few others have requested that we have a meeting of
this nature but it never materializes . Maybe this time with the younger
generation's help it may happen.
Peace
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:39:50 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: tragic death - Cash Reward
Message-ID: <347467D6.6D9A@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MJawara@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-11-18 23:10:04 EST, you wrote:
>
> << We were told one Gambian group gave one thousand dollars today. May allah
> bless them and all who helped out. >>
>
> Monday Nov.17, The Gambian Support Group made a cash donation of $ 1000.00 to
> the family of the deceased, Ms.Aji Sowe.A delegation of 5 members led by the
> Chairman of the Group, Mr. Dembo Drammeh made the donation on behalf of the
> organization.At the emergency meeting held on sunday Nov. 16, it was also
> decided to offer a cash reward of $ 1000.00 ( $ 500.00 from the organizaton
> and $ 500.00 total amount pledged by individual members ) to anyone with
> information on the suspect. He's a fugitive and may or may not be in the
> U.S.If you've any information, please call the Montgomery County Police, MD
> or your local law enforcement agency.If your info. leads to the arrest and
> conviction of the suspect, you'll receive the cash reward.
> Herewith attached is a picture of the suspect.Hopefully, everyone will be
> able to download the pic. without any problem.
>
> In the wake of two unfortunate and high profile domestic violence cases, The
> Gambian Support Group will be hosting a family oriented town - meeting to
> discuss marital and other social issues.Hopefully, we wouldn't look too far
> for speakers and counselors.There're Gambians with reputable character and
> hold responsible positions...Medical Doctors, Professors, Senior Economists
> at the World Bank and the I.M.F., Religious leaders, business men / women ...
> .Also to be included to the list of speakers is a representative of the
> Montgomery County Police , Domestic Violence Unit.
> To those Gambians in the Washington Metropolitan Area, stay tuned...
>
> Musa K. Jawara.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------Thanks for your help and please let me know where and when so I can pass
the word around to the Gambia Muslim Association.
Habib Diab Ghanim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:33:45 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: 1993 Census
Message-ID: <9711201533.AA25218@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> Hello Moe,
>
> > > Does anyone have (or know where I could get) the latest Census report for
> > > the Gambia. Any year after 1990 would be fine. I need ASAP.

> You can get them at Central Statistics Department, Ministry of Finance and Economic
> Affairs, Buckle Street. The 1993 Census is printed in several smaller
> reports and they sell them at 30 D + postage. I have some of them,
> but since I don't know what ASAP is, I don't know if it is included.
>
> Regards
> Heidi Skramstad

Thank you for the information. I have contacted a friend in the Gambia who
will get it from the ministry and mail it to me. I was hoping that someone
in the US might have copies they can fax to me since I need it sooner.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I just meant to say AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
(ASAP). If you can help further, please let me know via private mail.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

===========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:46:04 -0500 (EST)
From: fatima phall <fphall1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: lets' do it
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.971120113138.17524A-100000@umbc8.umbc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi Gambia-Lers,

I totally agree with Fatou Sanyang's suggestion. We should set up a
foundation" asap" for the Gambian people. If we think about the amount
money generated from parties like, ALD,New year's e.t.c., we could
definitely do it.Think about this for a moment please, if we don't attend
any of the above parties unless the money generated is going towards
our goal, we'll be leading in the right direction. Remember these
tragedies could happen to anyone's family when you least expect it. Let's do something
fast and soon. Anybody interested should please let us know.
Thanks,
Fatima.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:16:31 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: lets' do it
Message-ID: <34749A9F.2843@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

fatima phall wrote:
>
> Hi Gambia-Lers,
>
> I totally agree with Fatou Sanyang's suggestion. We should set up a
> foundation" asap" for the Gambian people. If we think about the amount
> money generated from parties like, ALD,New year's e.t.c., we could
> definitely do it.Think about this for a moment please, if we don't attend
> any of the above parties unless the money generated is going towards
> our goal, we'll be leading in the right direction. Remember these
> tragedies could happen to anyone's family when you least expect it. Let's do something
> fast and soon. Anybody interested should please let us know.
> Thanks,
> Fatima.Yes Fatima," Lets do it "( I think that seems to be a good theme ) I mean
a mission statement for this purpose.
No offense but when we have parties thousands of dollars are spent
lavishly and many people show in short notice. Maybe a bi annual special
joint fundraising effort by the Gambia Muslim Assn and the Gambia Support
group( & Gambia ADL group -etc) at an Idependent location is the answer.
Habib
Thanks for your personal e mail . I deleted by mistake. i will reply you
seperately later. Do you hear from Mam Sait Jagne???
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:51:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971120134842.17506A-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



If any one (from the U.S) would be interested in teaching
physics,chemistry, biology or math in The Gambia during spring 1998 please
contact me at my private mail for details.
Thanks .........Musa


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:05:15 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: lets' do it
Message-ID: <9711201905.AA57644@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Let's do it!

That would be wonderful. Please, Let me in on it.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

> > Fatima.Yes Fatima," Lets do it "( I think that seems to be a good theme ) I mean
> a mission statement for this purpose.
> Habib


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:31:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: lets' do it
Message-ID: <199711202031.PAA04935@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Fatima:

I think raising funds for these purposes is an excellent idea.
Realistically, parties are a good way to raise funds. Why not work with all
these gambian groups -- ALD, 4th of July, Labor Day, and the Muslim
Association, among others to donate a percentage of their profits to the
foundation. Any Gambian group in the US who plans social events on a
regular basis should be able to donate some of those profits. It would be
for a good cause, and gambians and their friends all over the country would
be contributing something. Of course, this should not be limited to the US
alone.

Peace,
N'Deye Marie


At 12:16 PM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote:
>fatima phall wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gambia-Lers,
>>
>> I totally agree with Fatou Sanyang's suggestion. We should set up a
>> foundation" asap" for the Gambian people. If we think about the amount
>> money generated from parties like, ALD,New year's e.t.c., we could
>> definitely do it.Think about this for a moment please, if we don't attend
>> any of the above parties unless the money generated is going towards
>> our goal, we'll be leading in the right direction. Remember these
>> tragedies could happen to anyone's family when you least expect it. Let's
do something
>> fast and soon. Anybody interested should please let us know.
>> Thanks,
>> Fatima.Yes Fatima," Lets do it "( I think that seems to be a good theme )
I mean
>a mission statement for this purpose.
>No offense but when we have parties thousands of dollars are spent
>lavishly and many people show in short notice. Maybe a bi annual special
>joint fundraising effort by the Gambia Muslim Assn and the Gambia Support
>group( & Gambia ADL group -etc) at an Idependent location is the answer.
>Habib
>Thanks for your personal e mail . I deleted by mistake. i will reply you
>seperately later. Do you hear from Mam Sait Jagne???
>Habib
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:23:14 PST
From: "NJAGA JAGNE" <jagnen25@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: color trouble..
Message-ID: <19971120212314.12370.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain



>Good day all,
>Sorry for the delay in answering Mr. Torstein's query, and addressing
the= > other issues raised but, work
>has my hands tied, both day and night and I have just returned to my
emai= >l, to find too many issues to
>respond to. I will try to respond to Mr. Torstein first.
>Mr. Torstein you wrote:
>
> >Could you please specify for an ignorant "toubab" like me
> >where I have tainted my views with racism?!
> >In order to learn and change you have to listen to advices from
different > >sources, so I would much apreciate it if you could
enlighten > >me on this.
>
>There is one string of comments which amplify your position on this
issue= ...........................

THANK YOU MR PAYNE........
you have given me more and more reason to believe that thare
are stiil people on this list who are able to argue
intellectually on issues and not get personal. to me, you
carried accross your points much better than anyone could have
done when you put aside your emotions and used your intellect.
if this is not good enough to persuade mr Torstein that the
word "toubab" has no inherent racial hatred or meaning in it,
then i guess he is gonna be uncomfortable for a long time
living in the gambia. i would like to challenge mr Torstein
to ask the children or anybody in the gambia who should call
him a toubab, what racism is, or what they mean by toubab. i
suggest that you interact more with the gambians at home, sit
and drink attaya with the boys, go to our "ngentehs" and
check out the "farooto taa laalu", and you may begin to see
where we are coming from. it is right there under your nose.
If you need any more clarification, you can consult with
heidi.....even if she is not in the gambia now, she knows
what a "kankurang jafoo", "nyaakaato", and "solimaa" is.

don't forget to SMILLLLEEEE!!!!!
********AND i use the caps lock at my discretion*************
this is NNNJJJJAAAAGGGAA.. THE jagnen in
kentucky.




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:15 -0500 (EST)
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: lets' do it
Message-ID: <199711202123.QAA03945@oak.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text

I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be
important that we consider all options before we get into it.
Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance
.. I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions and
come up with reccommendations.

Malanding Jaiteh


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:05:33 -0500 (EST)
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
Subject: Education Committee Progress report
Message-ID: <199711202205.RAA03956@oak.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text

On behalf of members of the education support plan draft committee, I
would like to welcome new members and send condolences to families of
the two young Gambians we lost during the past week.

For the benefit of our newest members, some months ago a few members
volunteered to work on a proposal on aiding education in the
Gambia(Musa Sowe's now famous Food for thought message). Another notable
member Andrea Klumpp conducted a survey regarding what kind of aid if
any members would like to give. From the results of that survey, it
was concluded that members would want to see an autonomous organization,
charged with the task of collecting contributions and helping out institutions
and individuals in education in the Gambia. Based on the responses a
committee (nearly 20 members) was set up to develop a working
document. Out of the larger committee a draft team of 5 (later 4) was
formed and a draft was devloped.
This draft had been submitted to the larger committee for review. It
is expected that the review will be completeed by November 29 and a
final document be presented to Gambia-L by Dec 1.

The main points in the document are:
An organization be established by the name Gambia Education Support
Organization with an executive committee to oversee its activities.

The activities are:
Institutional support
-support library and laboratory facilities(including computers)
-classroom support(textbooks and other classroom materials at junior
and primary Schools.

Individual Support

-individual scholarship and mentorship program
-Education resource home page

Details will be forwarded as soon as the review is completed.

Malanding Jaiteh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:31:12 -0800 (PST)
From: "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Subscription of New Member
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.971120162256.37760A-100000@dante22.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

TO THE LIST MANAGERS:
Could you please add Mr. Jassey to the list. In fact, I did make a
request to this effect but he is still not added. I guess his e-mail
address that I sent was not right.

NAME E-MAIL ADDRESS
Joseph Jassey jjassey@MCIONE

Thanx again, Dawda Singahteh.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:49:31 -0800
From: "Alieu Jobe" <Tokunor@worldnet.att.net>
To: <Gambia-L@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Stop Subscription
Message-ID: <19971121014523.AAA18416@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi
Please remove my name from your subcribers list Gambia-L . Stop sending
messages with immediate effect.
Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:53:26 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Subscription of New Member
Message-ID: <19971121015326.19738.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Mr. Singahteh,

The e-mail address you have written below doesn't seem right since it
doesn't have an extension.

Perhaps, it should have a .com, .net or .whatever as the extension. You
may wanna re-check with Mr Jarsey.

My thoughts...

Jainaba.
**********************************************************************

> TO THE LIST MANAGERS:
>Could you please add Mr. Jassey to the list. In fact, I did make a
>request to this effect but he is still not added. I guess his e-mail
>address that I sent was not right.
>
>NAME E-MAIL ADDRESS
>Joseph Jassey jjassey@MCIONE
>
>Thanx again, Dawda Singahteh.




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:27:57 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
Message-ID: <19971121032758.10337.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Gambia-lers,

My take as per the thread: When intellectuals argue....


It is necessary to, as much as possible, put an idea in the right
context so as to elicit some constructive intellectual input from
others, be it by way of reviews or criticism.

However, a FEW list members have consistently demonstrated their
inability, either deliberate or otherwise, to grasp even the simplest
ideas. This is not to ridicule them, but these intellectually challenged
people just lack the ability to read and comprehend even the simplest
sentence. In their response to a wide variety of postings, one is left
wondering whether they read the posting to which they were responding or
whether they are just plain ignorant.

Because not much is required to be on the list, it is not surprising
that people of different intellect and common sense find themselves in
the same newsgroup. I am not suggesting a rule or gatekeeper to weed out
the morons or borderline *****s, but the fact is that some people need
to be spoon fed, literarily. They provide no humor, and are nothing but
poster "boys" for ignorance. It is good that they are a TINY MINORITY,
otherwise this forum will be nothing but A CONFEDRACY OF DUNCES where
ignorance is embraced and common sense ridiculed.

There are also those who combine ignorance, stupidity, and humor. Their
response sometimes leaves one wondering how they manage to go to
work(school) and find their way home everyday. Believe it or not, I can
stand these people, because they kind of provide comic relief on the
list. It is atimes refreshing to read their pepper-soup analysis....Come
on, who doesn't need a laugh after a long days work.

Because of the above observation about the quality of debate since I
joined the list, and also because of some postings in the archieves from
the same bunch of people, I will henceforth append a disclaimer to all
my postings to the list.

I don't claim to have monoply of wisdom, nor do I wish to limit the
scope of debate or criticism of my posting(s) by appending disclaimers.
All, I ask is that people take the time to read and digest an idea
before rushing to the key board. Most importantly, people should aim at
focusing on the issue at hand, rather than an unrelated issue (such as
the confrontation I've had with some folks in the past).

Hope that I have finally exhaled!!

Later....

Jainaba.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:33:42 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <971120223341_1470153098@mrin42.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-11-18 23:59:42 EST, you write:

<< That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I
believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not
saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We
should careful in how we present our views. >>


OUSMAN,

I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND BEEN AN
ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT FACT.

HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS, RATHER THEY
CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG.

IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT IS
YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION.

HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS.


MOMODOU JAGANA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:38:55 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <971120223854_461293580@mrin54.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-11-19 09:18:16 EST, you write:

<< good muslim does not go about killing." (period) ?!? >>


WELL I SUPPOSE FEW YOUR OWN LIFE IS UNDER DANGER YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PROTECT
YOURSELF,


MOMODOU J

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 00:08:50 -0500 (EST)
From: KTouray@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: suggestion
Message-ID: <971121000850_-624265536@mrin58.mail.aol.com>

I am very glad that some of you agreed to my idea. I have also sent letters
to various people whose adresses i had by calling them eventhough some are
very reluctant to give their adresses. I tried to explain to them the reason
behind it but they just couldn't buy it. I think i would end up hand
delivering them instead. As we all know, everyone will not agree to this idea
but all we need is something to start with. With or without everybody we can
still do it . We cannot just give up because most people choose not to
participate. Some people don't believe in starting anything because of risks
that might involve but everything in live is risky in one way or another.
Right now i am waiting for a few days to know what other people think about
it and then we will be able to take it from there. As soon as i get some
answers i will let you know.
Thanks again, Fatou sanyang.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:48:47 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <19971121054848.20375.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Mr. Jagana,

I have three questions for you....you may wanna respond to them or not
at all. BTW, I am not trying to provoke you...some people think I am
notorious in that regard. I'll not try to ridicule you either should you
respond. It will help me a lot in contributing to this thread if you
answer the questions below:

1. Do you believe that all arabs are muslim??

2. Do you believe that all Egyptians are arabs??

3. What is/are the reason(s) behind such acts af terror??

Cheers,

Jainaba.
*********************************************************************

><< That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I
> believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not
> saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We
> should careful in how we present our views. >>
>
>
>OUSMAN,
>
>I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND
BEEN AN
>ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT
FACT.
>
>HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS,
RATHER THEY
>CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG.
>
>IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT
IS
>YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION.
>
>HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS.
>
>
>MOMODOU JAGANA
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:14:00 +0100
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
To: Gambia-L@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE : COLOUR TROUBLE
Message-ID: <3475434a.narud@relay.nsw.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt



Mr.Payne!

How on earth could you do it?

I mean remain patient and quiet in the face of all the nonsense that has =
=

been paraded here as debate on the very important question of RACE?

Your last contribution was long overdue! If you ever do that again =

(remain quiet for so long on such important issues) I shall only forgive =
=

you in the hereafter!

You reminded me of Fanon!!!

This bantaba needs a doyen like you. Maybe we all learnt all the more =

because you waited for this timely and opportune moment to present this =
=

analysis of such intellectual profundity supported by much irrefutable =

proof.

In another posting earlier today somebody, was it Pa Musa Jallow?, said =
=

he owes you one; I join him in meaning so.

A. Kabir Njie.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
R=E5dhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:31:00 +0100
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <34754719.narud@relay.nsw.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt


Hey Jai,
Very relevant and pertinent questions! Let's address the causes and not =
=

the symptoms!!!

To borrow Bass's favourite : Keep up the good work down there!

A. Kabir Njie

----------
From: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sent: 20. november 1997 9:48
To: ak; gambia-l; jai_diallo
Subject: Re: Another act of terror

Mr. Jagana,

I have three questions for you....you may wanna respond to them or not
at all. BTW, I am not trying to provoke you...some people think I am
notorious in that regard. I'll not try to ridicule you either should you
respond. It will help me a lot in contributing to this thread if you
answer the questions below:

1. Do you believe that all arabs are muslim??

2. Do you believe that all Egyptians are arabs??

3. What is/are the reason(s) behind such acts af terror??

Cheers,

Jainaba.
*********************************************************************

><< That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I
> believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not
> saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We
> should careful in how we present our views. >>
>
>
>OUSMAN,
>
>I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND
BEEN AN
>ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT
FACT.
>
>HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS,
RATHER THEY
>CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG.
>
>IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT
IS
>YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION.
>
>HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS.
>
>
>MOMODOU JAGANA
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
R=E5dhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:07:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Subscription of New Member
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.971121004803.49744A-100000@dante26.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Jainaba, thanks a lot. In fact, I did realize my mistake after I
received my own message back (being a list member). The extension is
..com.



AGAIN TO THE LIST MANAGERS:
I would like you to add Mr. Jassey to the list. Address is given
below.


NAME E-MAIL ADDRESS
Joseph Jassey jjassey@MCIONE.com

Thanx again, Dawda Singahteh.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:45:05 -0500
From: Laura Munzel <lem10@columbia.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Color Debate
Message-ID: <34759E71.880993C@columbia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------05AE07E0AB46716930C08F5C"


--------------05AE07E0AB46716930C08F5C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Mr. Payne,

You said:
....the idea of racism revolves around the issue of power and how that
power influences collective behavior. Blacks have never been in such
positions of power to influence collective behavior...

You say that black people can't be racist because they can't influence
collective behavior, and white people can be racist because they can
affect collective behavior. What's ironic is that although you base
your view on historical and political context, there is still a
determinism expressed based solely on race. Isn't it very possible
that a wealthy black individual would have more influence on collective
behavior than poor white trash? Economic status makes a difference, I
think - not just race.

You might respond that the example given of a black man/woman who is
wealthy, or a black man/woman who is in a position of power is the
exception rather than the rule. You mention that: ...Blacks have never
been in similar positions of power on a global basis. Is there such a
thing of being in power on a global basis? I would say there are more
pockets of power which play out differently across different contexts of
economic status, social status, political status.

In saying the above, there is no arguing the fact that we are all
carrying around the histories of our races. We are treated
differentially based on our color. People die because of their color.
The affects on peoples' lives are very real.

Oh, I see, and you are saying that any sense of Black solidarity is
responsible for that lack of peace? Yeah, right! This is a common ploy
utilized by those who are not concerned with our best interest; "Blame
the victim for being victimized." And any attempt to break out of the
cycle of victimization, meets with the criticism of those who benefit
from our subordinate position. Black solidarity is a somewhat powerful
political vehicle. But is race the only factor which makes one group
subordinate to another? As indicated earlier, I suspect economic status
is a stronger indicator of who will have power over whom.

Basing a political position solely on race is limiting. First, it stems
from the same ideology which got us into this mess in the first place.
Second, by viewing race as the single significant factor in a political
struggle, opportunities are missed for alliances based on other
determiners.

Laura





--------------05AE07E0AB46716930C08F5C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>


<P>Dear Mr. Payne,

<P>You said:
<BR><I>...the idea of racism revolves around the issue of power and how
that power influences collective behavior.  Blacks have never been
in such positions of power to influence collective behavior...</I><I></I>

<P>You say that black people can't be racist because they can't influence
collective behavior, and white people can be racist because they can affect
collective behavior.  What's ironic is that although you base your
view on historical and political context, there is still a determinism
expressed based solely on race.  Isn't it very possible  that
a wealthy black individual would have more influence on collective behavior
than poor white trash?  Economic status makes a difference, I think
- not just race.

<P>You might respond that the example given of a black man/woman who is
wealthy, or a black man/woman who is in a position of power is the exception
rather than the rule.  You mention that:  ...<I>Blacks have never
been in similar positions of power on a global basis.  </I>Is there
such a thing of being in power on a global basis?  I would say there
are more pockets of power which play out differently across different contexts
of economic status, social status, political status.

<P>In saying the above, there is no arguing the fact that we are all carrying
around the histories of our races.  We are treated differentially
based on our color.  People die because of their color.  The
affects on peoples' lives are very real.

<P><I>Oh, I see, and you are saying that any sense of Black solidarity
is responsible for that lack of peace?  Yeah, right!  This is
a common ploy utilized by those who are not concerned with our best interest;
"Blame the victim for being victimized."  And any attempt to break
out of the cycle of victimization, meets with the criticism of those who
benefit from our subordinate position.  </I> Black solidarity
is a somewhat powerful political vehicle.  But is race the only factor
which makes one group subordinate to another?  As indicated earlier,
I suspect economic status is a stronger indicator of who will have power
over whom.

<P>Basing a political position solely on race is limiting.  First,
it stems from the same ideology which got us into this mess in the first
place.  Second, by viewing race as the single significant factor in
a political struggle, opportunities are missed for alliances based on other
determiners.

<P>Laura
<BR> 
<BR> 
<BR> 
<BR> </HTML>

--------------05AE07E0AB46716930C08F5C--


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:50:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Setting up foundation.
Message-ID: <971121095018_1761040977@mrin40.mail.aol.com>

Fatou,
l think that this is a good idea. It always breaks my heart when this sort of
thing occurs. In many instances, these people have not been seen by family
back home for years, and laying eyes on them even while dead is somewhat of a
comfort for these families, otherwise, it is hard for them to put closure to
the whole thing. l know that Islam dictates burial as soon as possible, but
as someone pointed out to me, if transferring the body can be done
immediately, then there is no harm done. l for one know that if l were to die
here, l would want to be put to rest in Gambia. l have a suggestion. l like
the proposal put forth for setting up the education foundation. Can we
somehow set this foundation up to cover other things(for example this idea)
as well as educational needs? This will simplify things by payment of just
one annual dues. We can accomodate these other needs by perhaps increasing
the annual dues to say $100.00 instead of the proposed $50.00. Some feedback
please. Thanks

Jabou Joh.



The past few months have been very rough on the Gambians in the U.S.A .from
immigration problems to death, some of us have been going through a rough
time: it is my understanding that the immigration has raided some restaurants
and unfortunately some of the people detained are our own blood. I have also
realised that 4 gambians have passed away and family members partly depended
on us tto contribute some money to send the deceased home for proper burial.
Having thinking about all this, it occurred me that with the joint effort of
everyone in this country, we can easily send deceased home. i think if we set
up a foundation by making monthly or yearly contribution and holding at least
quarterly meetings we will be well informed of what is happening to all of us
and therefore help out with things that need to be taken care of.I know that
it is not as easy as it seems, but a little time from everyone can make it
happen.
This is just a suggestion and i will be very happy to hear your points of
view as we all know that two minds are better than one.I am willing to work
with anybody on this and hoping that we will all participate in it.
We all know that as inevitable as death is we will not want a close friend to
be kept in the morgue waiting for money to be sent home for burial let alone
ourselves or a family member.So please let us work together since this is
something beyond our control.
This does not have to be for only people in MD, anyone is welcome to be part
of it. After all we can always transfer funds from one bank to another and
therefore state to another.
I am expecting replies from all and feel free to call me on (301)565-9427 if
you would rather talk about it.
thank you all, Fatou Sanyang.


----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from relay13.mail.aol.com (relay13.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.13])
by air16.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:36:11 -0500
Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu
[140.142.56.1])
by relay13.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id AAA10915;
Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:35:04 -0500 (EST)
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
id VAA15163; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:34:50 -0800
Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
id VAA33982 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997
21:34:37 -0800
Received: from mrin39.mail.aol.com (mrin39.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.149])
by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP
id VAA21543 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:34:36
-0800
Received: (from root@localhost)
by mrin39.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0)
id AAA28394 for gambia-l@u.washington.edu;
Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <971120003404_-53874598@mrin39>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: KTouray@AOL.COM
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: suggestion
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:25:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Lif insurance etc.
Message-ID: <971121102539_-1005172172@mrin58.mail.aol.com>

Malanding and others,

Life insurance is fine, but please keep in mind that there is usually a long
process to go through before the insurer pays up. Unless of course there is
some kind of special arrangement with the insurer. Perhaps Dr. Kamara can
give details of the coverage etc.

Jabou Joh.


I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be
important that we consider all options before we get into it.
Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance
... I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions and

come up with reccommendations.

Malanding Jaiteh



----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
Received: from relay06.mail.aol.com (relay06.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.6]) by
air12.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:42:06 -0500
Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu
[140.142.56.1])
by relay06.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with ESMTP id QAA15242;
Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:26:00 -0500 (EST)
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
id NAA06463; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:44 -0800
Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
id NAA44242 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997
13:25:31 -0800
Received: from news.mtu.edu (root@news.mtu.edu [141.219.70.11])
by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP
id NAA07015 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:25
-0800
Received: from mtu.edu (root@mtu.edu [141.219.70.1])
by news.mtu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10147
for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:25:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from oak.mtu.edu (oak.ffr.mtu.edu [141.219.149.151])
by mtu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03982
for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:25:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: by oak.mtu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)
id QAA03945; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:16 -0500
Message-Id: <199711202123.QAA03945@oak.mtu.edu>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:15 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: lets' do it
In-Reply-To: <199711202031.PAA04935@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "N'Deye
Marie N'Jie" at Nov 20, 97 03:31:30 pm
Content-Type: text
X-Authentication-Warning: campus0.mtu.edu: Host oak.ffr.mtu.edu
[141.219.149.151] claimed to be oak.mtu.edu
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:06:06 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Junius' words
Message-ID: <9711211606.AA71516@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In his first letter to the Public Advertiser on January 21, 1789, Junius'
assessment of the United Kingdom (for how government of his day was
conducted) reads,

"The ruin or prosperity of a state depends so much upon the
administration of its government, that, to be acquainted with the merit
of a ministry, we need only observe the condition of the people. If we
see them obedient to the laws, prosperous in their industry, united at
home, and respected abroad, we may reasonably presume that their affairs
are conducted by men of experience, abilities and virtue. If, on the
contrary, we see a universal spirit of distrust and disaffection, a rapid,
decay of trade, dissensions in all parts of the empire, and a total loss
of respect abroad in the eyes of foreign powers, we may pronounce without
hesitation, that the government of the country is weak, distracted, and
corrupt."

Could one say that he was writing of BLACK AFRICA????



Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:05:02 -0000
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: color trouble..
Message-ID: <B0000017852@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit


Dear Mr. Payne.
Thank you for answering my request and the in-depth response.

Here is my answer to your reply:

>>Could you please specify for an ignorant "toubab" like me
>>where I have tainted my views with racism?!
>>In order to learn and change you have to listen to advices from different
>>sources, so I would much apreciate it if you could enlighten
>>me on this.

> There is one string of comments which amplify your position on this issue. In your response to
my Mr.
> Njie, you made some interesting statements. The exchange went as follows:

>>> Till this day blacks are attacked physically all over the "Western
>>> world" by dint of our colour. If the victims are lucky they come out of
>>> it alive. The day you are attacked physically in The Gambia/Africa it
>>> will be to be robbed because some poor criminal needs food to eat, not
>>> because of racial hatred.

>> I have no statistics to prove you otherwise, but the little I have heard from the US
>> is that a majority of dark skinned people are actually killed/attacked by other
>> dark skinned people?! Also there seems to be certain areas in the US where a person
>>with a light complexion really, really should not go?!

> What Mr. Njie was pointing out, was the difference in the motivations for crime. He did not say
that
> crime was good in one case, and bad in the other, but he was pointing out what some of us know
all too
> well. In short, he was stating that crimes based exclusively on race, were exclusively
perpetrated by
> White people against people of color. The reverse is not true.
> In your response, you first reply with the non-sequitur, concerning violent crimes of "dark
skinned
> people" against "other dark skinned people." This is undeniable, there are far too many violent
crimes
> committed here, and certainly Black people assailing Black people is an issue. However, this has
> nothing to do with the issue. But, if this so called "Black on Black" crime is true, can the
other
> side of the coin also be true? A proliferation of Black on White crime? If both are true, then
one
> could come to no other conclusion from your argument that "dark skinned people" are inherently
violent
> and evil. Is this not a racist notion?

I agree with you on the first point that "black on black" crime is a little to the side of the
"white vs.black" issue.
As you say, violence/crime general and violence/crime colorbased is two different things.
I read Mr. Njie response in the first sense, and thus responded accordingly. What I was thinking of
(in the general sense)
was that people are people (good and bad) regardless of color.
I do not fully comprehend how you can conclude that my arguments suggest a racist notion.
Here I think you are sliding a little. "Black on black" crime is happening, "White on black" crime
is happening, and
I suggest that perhaps "black on white" crime is emerging a few places. Just because I am writing
that there is crimes
happening between "black and black" etc., does not imply that ALL "Black" (or ALL "white" for that
matter)
are "inherently violent and evil" (your quote). It simply means that humans are capable of
anything,
bad and good, "black&white".

(Just trying to shorten the mail her, its getting long)

> The idea that "there are certain areas in the US where a person with a light complexion really,
really
> should not go" is a common ploy used by many White racists and conservatives here,....

>...Well, in the late ‘80s, ...The two were chased and beaten by a White mob, ...

> Now, Harlem (not Haarlem) is a historic Black neighborhood in New York City of some 200,000
people...

> ...White people live in Harlem (not many, but a number do),..

> ...White people work in Harlem, and this much maligned community has not shown any incident of
color
> hatred, manifested through an attack on a White person on the basis of his hue...

> ...The singular incident...Rodney King,...

> ...An innocent White man, Reginald Denny,...

> All of this is to say, that under normal circumstances there is no record of "Black racism" as
you
> would like us to believe. But your racism prevails, when you provoke unwarranted fear of Black
people
> (in the USA) based on color, when the circumstances do not warrant it.

As I wrote before, I have no statistics to support my claim, maybe some of the other members of
Gambia-L are able
to help me/us with some numbers on crimes in Harlem or any other areas?!
What do you think, is there no difference if a "white guy" walks down a "downtown" Harlem street
or a "Black guy" does the same?!
Just asking, never been there, so I don't know.
Am I a racist when I ask a single question about some single areas in the US?! I never said it is a
fact, and I cannot
be asked to make a disclaimer on any question to avoid being a "racist provoker"!?!

>>> I really need to ask, why should the expression of pride in one's people be source of
>>> irritation
>>> for someone else????
>>So then it is Okey for me to say, horrray, a WHITE man just beat Tyson or Carl Lewis or
>>whoever because "WHITES" are MY people?!?

> In a historical context, one could never equate the two scenarios, precisely because Black
> participation has traditionally been excluded from such activities. White participation has not,
So
> there is nothing new to White participation and therefore White winning. Once again, you
overlook and
> ignore, the historical and contemporary context of these responses. Perhaps, because White
people have
> always had high visibility in the record books, history books, and any other book you can think
of, you
> do not have a sense of urgency. However, as the statements of either: Black inferiority, or
general
> lack of fitness of Black people for anything worth merit, one by one fall down, through the
efforts and
> achievements of People of Color, I and others will cheer these achievements and cheer them LOUDLY
and
> WITHOUT APOLOGY!!! If you do not cheer, then that is your right; I understand it quite well; in
fact,
> I wouldn't expect you to cheer.

If you look in the history books, all the people that achieves something actually has names and
stories behind them.
They are idividuals, not just "whites" (or "blacks"). This is what makes them interesting as
sportsmen/women etc.
Today you have people of any "color" making achievements in sports etc. and everybody cheers the
achiever, being it
a American, Englishman, Chinese or whatever. What makes them interesting is their talent, their
ability and the
story behind their success, NOT the color.
This is how it should be if you ask me. For me there is nothing like "they" and "us" in the sense
of color. I believe "color" is a
unhealty separation of people, looked upon in any context, historically or otherwise.

Now,now "old man" what is this: "I wouldn't expect you to cheer." an assumption, on my behalf?!?


(Just trying to shorten the mail her, its getting long)

> In 1936, the Black man Jesse Owens...
>..Whereas Jesse Owens's victory over these peculiar ethnic notions did not imply Black athletic
superiority
>over White people, a notion which you seem to want to ascribe to those of us who dare cheer Black
achievement;
>but it did serve to knock down a myth of Black inferiority in one arena of life
>(with implications extending to other arenas.)

Me ascribing anything like "black athletic superiority" is all in your own mind, my dear fellow,
since I do not care
about color.
When I first saw the documentary of Jesse Owens I had goosepimples on the achivements he made as a
statement
for the free world against Nazi-Germany. It was fascinating and I cheered LOUDLY.

> When the Brown Bomber, Joe Louis, defeated Max Schmeling, he not only defeated another boxer, but
he
> kicked the butt of a racist theory of White supremacy. The reverse has never been true, because
Blacks
> have never been in similar positions of power on a global basis. You see Mr. Torstein, the idea
of
> racism revolves around the issue of power and how that power influences collective behavior.
Blacks
> have never been in such positions of power to influence collective behavior, while the
recognition you
> receive as "toubab" has nothing to do with either power or behavior.

Everything revolves around power if you ask me. Racism as far as I have learnt is a mix of fear,
lack of knowledge,
collective behaviour as you say, peoples tendency to always group things, conservatism etc.
Since we are visually dependent creatures, "black" and "white" is a convenient but erranous way to
group people.

> In looking at television in the 1960s, (before you were born) many of us cheered the few times we
saw a
> Black person momentarily appear on the television screen for the brief quarter of a second that
he or
> she would appear in a television commercial. I can remember those experiences vividly! Why?
Because
> we were traditionally excluded from participation in the larger society, nationally, and
globally, on
> the basis of color! Was this exclusion a situation of our (read, our = Black people's) creation?
I
> think that even you should see the point here. Again, the issues of power and behavior arise.
My
> annoyance stems from the fact that as we react to situations which have been thrust upon us, you
feel
> threatened because some of us feel a sense of solidarity, based upon common experiences of
oppression
> and the melanin we have in common.

Yes, "even I" see the point. It is not pleasant to even think about such scenarioes, but I can't do
very much
about it, other than draw experience from it. But this is not the sixties now, I would mildly
suggest that the
situation is different (better?!) now in some parts of the world.
I will stand together with you in any confrontation you would ever experience regarding racism.
You are wrong when you believe I am feeling threatened, I am just asking for a critical approach to
the use
of "color".

>>> And then, why should I allow someone else to define for me, with whom I collectively
>>> identify?

>> I will defend to my death your right to define anything you like, but as a consept my
>> personal belief is that it is not the best way to make peace among people from around the world.
>
> Oh, I see, and you are saying that any sense of Black solidarity is responsible for that lack of
> peace? Yeah, right! This is a common ploy utilized by those who are not concerned with our best
> interest; "Blame the victim for being victimized." And any attempt to break out of the cycle of
> victimization, meets with the criticism of those who benefit from our subordinate position.

Again you are assuming the wrong thing (on behalf of me).
All I am saying is that to use the two "colors" "white" and "black" to separate people, is a
generalisation
of people that creates polarization and divides humans into "us" and "them" regardless of who is
doing it,
"white","black","brown,"red","yellow","gray" etc.........(getting tired of this colorfocusing :-(
)

> >> If Mr. Torstein has a problem with expressions of Black pride or the expression of a
> >> positive Black
> >> identity, then I suggest that is his problem, and that he has some issues, that he has to
> >> resolve.
>
> >A positive black identity?, where the important thing is that "MY COLOR" beat the bad
> >"WHITE"
> >people?!?
>
> That is interesting. According to my understanding of your response there can be nothing like a
> positive Black identity. Furthermore, I see that you have a problem of interpretation. I don't
> remember characterizing events like you have. Why did you use the adjective "bad" to
characterize
> "WHITE people?" Is this something that I have actually written on this list in the above
context? Or
> is this a creation of your own mind? I would suggest "you look before you [make the inductive]
leap"
> This is your characterization, not mine. If one were to follow your characterization, then any
team or
> individual whom I support, would be contesting against an evil or "bad" opponent. So, when I
cheer an
> individual (whom I support), then it is obviously because the opponent was a bad and nasty team
or
> individual. Does this reasoning makes sense to you?

You can take away the "bad" in the sentence without changing my meaning. Is this colorstruggle
really
what we want? "White" against "Black" on the racefield, economically, politically etc.?
"Black" identity in my opinion should be unecessary just as "White" identity is.
It is maybe theoretically today, but could be the thing to aim at.

> >> After all, to categorize on ANY LEVEL is to be exclusionary to some group in the world.
> >> The
> >> Olympics is a vehicle for the type of pride expressed on a national level. Are the
> >> Olympics, or
> >> the type of pride which the Olympics foster wrong?
>
> >You just said it my friend, the olympics being a big, wonderful mix of people from around
> >the world
> >of any
> >color nuance competing on the basis of skills and talent and really not "COLOR"!!!
>
> Again, thank you for conveniently missing the point. In the Olympics, people compete on the
basis of
> skill, training, and NATIONALITY. Nationality is a category which, can be and is framed to be
> inclusive of some, but excludes others. Is this a problem for you? Probably not if I remember
some of
> your earlier posts correctly. You don't mind categorization on any other level than color.
People
> cheer for national pride in the Olympics. Team members cheer on fellow team members, not because
of
> the INTRINSIC qualities each individual team member has, but because they are TEAM MEMBERS!
Well, for
> me one team I am proud to belong to is the team, which wears the Black suits all day long, even
if
> there are some disgruntled team members who do not consider themselves to be part of the team.
That
> goes with the territory. And by the way, the paragraph you are referencing looks at the sources
of
> pride within the Olympics, not the idea of the bases of competition.

I did not miss your point. I just don't think you can draw straight comparison between
colorcategorization and
categorization by Nation. There is a Maroccean from my country that I hope will perform in the next
Olympics
on long distance running. My dream is that he comes back with a gold medal in his bag. That his
skincolor is
sligthly brownish is of absolutely no interest. So again for me The Olympics are a showcase on how
the world
should compete. The best man/woman not the "best" color.

> >> Typically, quite a number White people throughout the world have always felt threatened
> >> when Black
> >> people express pride in themselves.
>
> >I feel treathened by violent people, ignorant people, people with guns, fanatic people
> >and people without humor, but you can beat your chest as much as you like for me,
> >I will evaluate you by the things you do and not your "COLOR".
>
> And that is fine. I will recognize you by whatever distinguishing characteristic you possess,
not by
> ignoring them. You keep confusing recognition, with evaluation, which are not the same.
Admittedly,
> one could simultaneously recognize and evaluate any phenomenon one chooses, however, this is not
> necessarily the case. In an earlier post I seem to recall (and I am sure that you will correct
me if I
> am wrong) that you mentioned your resentment to people or children, specifically (I forget which
one,
> and have deleted that post) who see you and refer to you as "Toubab" This is the point of
recognition
> for the people who greet you as so. There is no evaluation of your character on the basis of
this
> designation. After all, neither your name nor your nationality are printed on your forehead for
all to
> see and read, so no one can refer to you in that manner, if they first meet you or develop
nothing more
> than a passing acquaintance with you. It is ridiculous for me to reference "that fruit" when I
want to
> refer to an orange in a bowl of apples. The orange in the midst of apples serves as its own
> reference! Your whiteness in a land of Black people is a distinguishing characteristic. No
rocket
> scientist needed here. Like it or not, that is the reality. It is not a comment on your
character or
> personality, it is a comment on your appearance. Period.

Well, you seem to be hung up on details.
Conserning Evaluation & recognition.
Toubab can be a evaluation if you think about it;
- I am a foreigner,
- I have a lot of money, (to give away) ("toubab, give me some Dalasi...")
- I can help them in any way they need,
- I am nice,
- I can take them to Europe, etc.
Just to be a little Nitty Gritty back.
What I tried to say in a simple way was that for instance an athlete like Carl Lewis for me is a
big star
because of his personality and talent and not "color". To beat your chest because Carl Lewis
happens to
have a '"brown color" makes me say, "so what?"

> >> For Black people to express this type of pride is not demeaning to others, as both of you
> >> would
> >> suggest, but rather, is the result of numerous historical processes.
>
> >I am humble and sometimes depressed in the face of history, but for myself I make my
> >own
> >reputation, and will speak up if people use my skincolor to define me.
>
> That, again, is a problem with which you will have to live. It is either silly or extremely
naive to
> think that we arrive and act in the world independently of historic events or global social
forces. We
> are shaped by such events and forces, just as we play a part in shaping history and society.

The difference between the shaping of people and the shaping of a mountain is that people can chose
to
change or "reshape" it self based on intelligence and knowledge. That is what gives me hope.

> >> If I express a love for my wife, does it demean other women??? I hope not!!! The
> >> Torstein argument
> >> is the same argument that I have heard time without number, coming from White people of
> >> various
> >> backgrounds (most NOT well intentioned) and a number of "liberal" Black folks, as to
> >> why there
> >> should be, for instance, Black Studies or Black History? The answer to that question is,
> >> all
> >> things being equal, that there should not be such programs. However, as we all know, All
> >> Things
> >> Are Not Equal! These programs, as well as the expression of Black pride are the historic
> >> result of
> >> the exclusion of the voices of Black people and their experiences in the larger arena.
> >> Now, when
> >> Black people get a voice, you try to silence that voice, on the alleged basis of being
> >> offensive to
> >> some people?
> >> M W Payne
>
> > So the important thing here is to voice out color segregation but the other way?
> > Should not the voice of opressed people fighting against colordiffences, be to
> > fight against evaluating people based on color??!
>
> Mr. Torstein, God created color differences, not me. I have no problem with the differences, as
there
> is nothing wrong with the varieties of human existence. Human beings however recognize and
acknowledge
> those differences (again, nothing wrong here), and may act upon those differences (there is a
> possibility of foul play). My point is, that whereas you are prepared to deny the obvious, I am
NOT,
> because it is not inherently value laden. Different doesn't necessarily mean better; it doesn't
> necessarily mean worse. It simply means DIFFERENT.

You have a good point here, that there can be grouping based on color, without any negative
components
attached to it..but do you believe it yourself?!

> Right here in the good ol' US of A, a number of Black people (regardless of nationality,
character,
> educational background, or any of the host of characteristics you would insist that we examine
first)
> have lost their lives, simply because of their skin color. I have personally experienced dogs
that
> are trained to bark at and attack Black people exclusively!!! So, please don't lecture me, or
attempt
> to tell me how to approach life. You are far too young and inexperienced to do that.
> M W Payne

I have never tried to lecture anyone, just giving out my thoughts as everybody else.
I am fairly young, inexperienced, and I would never even attemt to tell you how you should
run your life. But maybe I have had some positive influence on you, regarding color and how to
look at it?!

Re: Caps lock.
I was not the one using capital letters in the mail.
I don't know how long you have been on e-mail/Internet but it is
actually considered rude and "shouting" as e-mail ethics go.

No lecturing of course, just a tip.

Best Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:36:47 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Junius' words
Message-ID: <01bcf6a4$0b63f1a0$272385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mr.Jallow!
You are really provocative! But I must admit that your this
excerpt sounds dangerously close to discribing the present state of affairs
of present day Africa.Please,try to be nice to us next time you send a
Quote,and keep up the good work down there!


Regards Bassss!
If, on the
>contrary, we see a universal spirit of distrust and disaffection, a rapid,
>decay of trade, dissensions in all parts of the empire, and a total loss
>of respect abroad in the eyes of foreign powers, we may pronounce without
>hesitation, that the government of the country is weak, distracted, and
>corrupt."
>
>Could one say that he was writing of BLACK AFRICA????
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Moe S. Jallow
>
>========================================================================
> mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:49:32 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Junius' words
Message-ID: <9711211949.AA28694@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Bass, you wrote:

> Mr.Jallow!
> You are really provocative! But I must admit that your this
> excerpt sounds dangerously close to discribing the present state of affairs
> of present day Africa.Please,try to be nice to us next time you send a
> Quote,and keep up the good work down there!
>
>
> Regards Bassss!
> If, on the
> >contrary, we see a universal spirit of distrust and disaffection, a rapid,
> >decay of trade, dissensions in all parts of the empire, and a total loss
> >of respect abroad in the eyes of foreign powers, we may pronounce without
> >hesitation, that the government of the country is weak, distracted, and
> >corrupt."
> >
> >Could one say that he was writing of BLACK AFRICA????

Bass,

Me...provocative? Maybe...but NOT in a resentful way I hope :-(.

If you find this excerpt provocative, then I will set politics aside and
say that If this were the forum to expose in detail the shallowness of
African governments and how their example causes other members of the
elite ruling class to engage in the same empty struggle for power, but
mostly for personal gain, I would be more detailed in my response to you.
It is sufficient to say that your response on this topic should be a
stimulus to keep in mind why most African countries lack progress in
development and constitutional order.

The excerpt above is directly related to our problem of lack of a
political
system that would serve as a road map to build a well-organized society.
We lack visionary leaders who can frame a government suitable for the
flowering of democracy and economic development. We condemn western ideas,
such as democracy, as unsuitable for our society, yet our intellectuals
look foolish making those accusations without a native substitute. We are
invariably impressed with people with higher education without asking
whether their acclaimed learning can transform our society. The
politicians we choose to lead us are chosen not for leadership skills that
develop society but for the client-patron relations we may acquire later
from them. When soldiers see the educated class and politicians doing
things for only themselves, they too imagine to become part of the system,
whereafter more hell breaks loose.

The worst thing (sadly of course) is that any intellectual who seeks to
create modernization in Africa is condemned as too western for the nation.
Thus, to survive, he goes along, to get along. Is this not why some of us
refuse to go back home?

Will we ever witness the "miracles" of change????????

Have an enjoyable weekend!

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:33:31 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Humor: Several for the weekend
Message-ID: <9711212033.AA48840@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Here are some few jokes for the weekend.

WARNING: some of the jokes contain language that may be offensive to some
of you. If you are easily offended with explicit language, then I suggest
you DELETE this email message WITHOUT reading. For those of you who
appreciate jokes of this type, well...enjoy!

Till next week.

Have an enjoyable week!

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

=======================================================================
mjallow@sctedu mjallow@hayes.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------------
A man and his son recently moved to Texas. One Saturday
afternoon they decided to take a walk through the park.
During the walk the boy sees 2 cowboys walk by.

"Dad, look at those bow-legged bastards!"

The father is surprised by this and tells his son that that is not
very nice language to use.

A few minutes later, 2 more cowboys walk by and again the
boy yells, "Dad, look at thoses bow legged bastards!"

The father, quite upset now turns to his son and says, "I told
you not to say that and I do not want to hear it again, or else."

just a few minutes go by and another pair of cowboys
walk by and once again the child yells, "Dad, look at those
bow-legged bastards!"

"Thats it!" the father yells, and takes the child home and locks
him in his room with the complete works of Shakespeare.

Two weeks later, he lets his son out and notices that
he has taken to speaking like Shakespeare wrote. This
impressed the father so he decided to take his son out
for another walk through the park.

As they were walking a pair of cowboys walk past them.

The boy turns to his father and says, "Father, what strange
men are these, whose balls hang in parenthises?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------

A tiny but dignified old lady was among a group looking at an
art exhibition in a newly opened gallery. Suddenly one
contemporary painting caught her eye.

"What on earth," she inquired of the artist standing nearby, "is
that?"

He smiled condescendingly. "That, my dear lady, is supposed
to be a mother and her child."

"Well, then," snapped the little old lady, "why isn't it?"


-------------------------------------------------------------------

A Sunday school teacher asked her class, "Does anyone know
Jesus' Mother's name?"

Susie raised her hand and said, "It was Mary." The teacher
said, "Very good Susie. Do you know Jesus' Father's name?"

Little Johnny said, "Yes, it was Virg." the teacher asked how he
came up with her answer. He said, "You know, Verg 'n Mary....."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

This man goes to confession and says, "Forgive me father
for I have sinned." The priest asks if he would like to
confess his sins and the man replies that he used the
"F-word" over the weekend.

The priest says, "Oh okay, just say three Hail Marys and try to
watch your language.

The man replies that he would like to confess as to why he
said the "F-word". The priest sighs and tells him to continue.

Well father I played golf on Sunday with my buddies instead
of going to church.

The priest says, "And you got upset over that and swore?"

The man replied, "No, that wasn't why I swore. On the first
tee I duck-hooked my drive well left into the trees."

The priest said, "And that's when you swore."

The man replied, a little testily because of the constant
interruptions, "No, it wasn't. When I walked up the fairway, I
noticed my ball got a lucky bounce and I had a clear shot to
the green. However, before I could hit the ball, a squirrel ran
by and grabbed my ball and scurried up a tree."

The priest asked, "Is that when you said the 'F-word'?"

The man replied, "No, because an eagle then flew by and
caught the squirrel in it's sharp talons and flew away."

The priest let out a breath and queried, "Is that when you
swore?"

The man replied, "No, because the eagle flew over the
green and the dying squirrel let go of my golf ball and it
landed within 5 inches of the hole."

The priest screamed, "Don't tell me you missed the
****ing putt!!!"

-------------------------------------------------------------------

One day this man was jumping up and down on a manhole
cover screaming at the top of his lungs, "Seventeen!!
Seventeen!!"

Intrigued by the man's insane behavior, another man walks
over to him and asks why he is doing that. The first man
responded, "It's a blast. You have to try it. Jump as high as you
can and scream 'Seventeen!!' as loud as humanly possible.
You get such a rush. Try it."

Reluctantly, the second man gets on the manhole cover
and barely hops and says, "Seventeen?" very timidly.

The first one says, "No, no, no. You're doing it wrong. Jump
higher. Yell louder."

So, the second man begins jumping a little higher and
speaking louder than normal. Finally he says, "Hey, you
know, I am getting a little bit of a rush. Seventeen!!
Seventeen!!"

The man jumps higher and higher, screaming louder
and louder. The first man, once the second had jumped
high enough, yanked the manhole cover out from under
the second, causing him to fall down the manhole.

The first one man replaced the cover and, once again,
began jumping and screaming, "Eighteen!! Eighteen!!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:56:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Musa Sowe <chemsm@panther.Gsu.EDU>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: FYI
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.971121155343.18988C-100000@panther.Gsu.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


For those who may be interested:

Accra Distance Learning/InfoTech
>>
>> CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT
>>
>> Volunteers
>>
>> UPDATE: Ghana Distance Learning / InfoTech Conference
>> May 20 - 22, 1998
>>
>> At the end, please find an update, and an invitation to
>> volunteer help with the planning and implementation, by
>> participating in informal discussion by E-mail -- a list
>> has been set up for the purpose of making all arrangements for
>> the Conference. Find details at the end of this msg.
>> _______
>> A f r i c a - B r a z i l - C u b a
>>
>> D i a s p o r a P r o g r a m s
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________
>>
>> Internships / Travel-Study / EduTouring / Study Abroad
>> _______________________________________________________________
>>
>> AASP
>> EDUCATIONAL / Travel Programs to AFRICA & BRAZIL & CUBA
>> for 1997 / 1998 / 1999
>>
>> Offers an intense immersion in and exposure to traditional
>> and modern life, a unique educational experience that is
>> career-enhancing -- and profoundly personal and
>> relevant -- in our Global Village.
>>
>> Select from among several different travel itineraries,
>> program themes, and dates year round.
>>
>> CONTACT:
>> Professor Harold Rogers
>> President, AASP
>>
>> 19 S. LaSalle St., Suite 301
>> Chicago, IL 60603
>> Phone: 312-443-0929
>>
>> E-mail your name &
>> full address to BOTH:
>>
>> 1- "Update/Information" <AASP@Juno.Com>
>> 2- "Brochure/Application" <AfricanEduTravel@Yahoo.Com>
>> WHEN TO
>> APPLY?
>> We are now accepting applications.
>>
>> COUNTRIES:
>> Senegal, Ivory Coast, Mali, South Africa, Egypt,
>> Ethiopia, Ghana, Kenya, Zimbabwe, The Gambia,
>> Cameroon, Mozambique, Namibia, Brazil, Cuba
>>
>> ACTIVITIES
>> & SITES:
>> Urban centers; rural villages; cultural and historical
>> sites; geographic and natural landmarks; explore
>> traditional life, linguistic and ethnic diversity;
>> experience a unique blend of human warmth & vitality
>> of spirit; leave the beaten path to see, feel and
>> appreciate what tourists rarely could or would.
>>
>> DURATION:
Programs range from 1 week to 3 weeks, beginning
>> variously in December, February, June, July & August.
>>
>> Special programs with particular themes may be arranged.
>>
>> COST:
>> Fees start at $995 - the lowest cost anywhere for a
>> program of this scope; includes travel, accommodations,
>> breakfast & full daily program -- led by Dr. Rogers and
>> experienced AASP staff.
>>
>> ACADEMIC
>> CREDIT:
>> Students typically arrange to receive 3 to 10 units
>> from their respective schools; or credit can be earned
>> through AASP's university affiliation, either graduate
>> or undergraduate units
WHO CAN
>> APPLY?
>> Participation is open to professionals, students,
>> non-students, technicals, and interested persons
>> in the general community
>>
>> All are welcome. Applications now being accepted.
>>
>> HOW TO
>> RAI$E
>> THE FUND$?
>> Please go to the Websites below where you will find
>> superb help with fundraising -- how to obtain grants,
>> scholarships and loans; how to receive support from your
>> campus or department; how to appeal to groups and
>> organizations both on campus and in the community; and
>> how to win support from businesses, charities, religious
>> groups and foundations.
being persistent. Virtually all who make an effort
>> to raise the funds, do succeed. As a 501(C)(3)
>> non-profit organization, donations made to AASP
>> toward your participation are tax-deductible.
>>
>> http://www.studyabroad.com/forum/financial_aid.html
>> http://www.fund-raising.com/ideabank3.html (a cornucopia of ideas!)
>> http://www.studyabroad.com/handbook/costs.html#aid
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Contact us to receive the application, brochure with itineraries,
>> program details and special features. For faster response,
>> best to phone: 312-443-0929 to circumvent our E-mail backlog
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>
>> ABOUT AASP...
The African American Studies Program, established in 1981, is a
>> non-profit organization committed to broadening educational,
>> cultural and political perspectives about African countries,
>> societies and peoples. More than just a tour, we offer a variety
>> of educational experiences in each country to heighten awareness
>> and understanding. Our programs are open to anyone who has an
>> interest in learning more about Africa and the African Diaspora.
>>
>> ===============================================================
>>
>> Accra Distance Learning/InfoTech
>> CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT
>>
>> Your Invitation to Help...
>>
>> THE GHANA DISTANCE LEARNING/INFO TECH CONFERENCE
>> TO BE HELD IN ACCRA: MAY 20 - 22 1998
>>
>> GHANA SPONSOR: The Voluntary Workcamps Association along with numerous
organizations, institutions and NGO's in Ghana and worldwide
>>
>> VOLUNTEER TO HELP VIA INFORMAL DISCUSSION BY E-MAIL
>>
>> FOR INFO, PLEASE CONTACT:
>>
>> DR. OSEI DARKWA
>> Faculty, University of Illinois
>>
>> <darkwa@tigger.cc.uic.edu>
>>
>> Please contact Dr. Darkwa if you would like to participate
>> pro bono in the planning and implementation of this
>> conference, or play some other role in the area of your interest.
>>
>> You are invited to join the E-Mail discussion group
GHACLAD-SCOPE which has been set up to promote and carry
>> out the conference, including making all arrangements,
>> resolving any problems, and fine-tuning the agenda and program.
>>
>> To join the List, please send a msg with "subscribe ghaclad-scope"
>> in the body to:
>>
>> majordomo@igc.org
>>
>> You will immediately be added to the GHAGLAD-SCOPE
>> discussion group.
>>
>> _________________________________________
>>
>> FINAL DATES OF CONFERENCE
>>
>> May 20-22, 1998
>>
>> OBJECTIVES OF THE CONFERENCE
a) To initiate a long-term effort to promote electronic networking
>> for economic and educational development in Africa.
>>
>> b) To examine the future of education in electronic classroms
>> without walls
>>
>> c) To explore the barriers to developing transnational goals
>> for infusing computer literacy into primary, secondary, and
>> tertiary education in Africa
>>
>> d) To strengthen the capacity of grassroots organizations
>> and low income communities to initiate, choose, plan and
>> manage their own self help projects through computer technology
>> and information systems.
>> _________________________________
>>
Thanks....................Musa


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:43:58 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: lets' do it
Message-ID: <3476009E.1952@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Modou Jallow wrote:
>
> Let's do it!
>
> That would be wonderful. Please, Let me in on it.
>
> Regards,
> Moe S. Jallow
>
> > > Fatima.Yes Fatima," Lets do it "( I think that seems to be a good theme ) I mean
> > a mission statement for this purpose.
> > Habib

Way to go

Let's do it

hdg
--
MZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:02:05 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: lets' do it
Message-ID: <347604DD.5F1C@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote:
>
> I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be
> important that we consider all options before we get into it.
> Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance
> . I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions and
> come up with reccommendations.
>
> Malanding Jaiteh

Let's do it
Mamading, I met your sister in law at Agie's funeral yesterday(it turned
out good-Alhamdulillah-)
The insurance notion was set up by our Gambian Muslim Assn but it never
got off ground due to some organizational constraints.
Mr Steve Wilson , a west African national, had a proposal to me (which
was forwarded to Pa Ndarow Sey- the current President of the Gambia
Muslim Assn) that will cover only burial & funeral expenses of about
$5000.00-five thousand only (TERM INSURANCE)for only $14.00(fourteen
dollars a month) per person in the Assn.
This will eliaveate the burden on us for the funeral costs and there
will be left over cash *average muslim burial in the USA is about
$4000.00* If the family wants to take the body and theycan afford it
without delay then so be it.
If you want details call Steve Wilson at 301 864 9000 or me at my new
office 703 506 1260
Habib Diab Ghanim
--
MZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:14:04 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <347607AC.5A52@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

MJagana@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-11-18 23:59:42 EST, you write:
>
> << That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I
> believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not
> saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We
> should careful in how we present our views. >>
>
> OUSMAN,
>
> I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND BEEN AN
> ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT FACT.
>
> HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS, RATHER THEY
> CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG.
>
> IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT IS
> YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION.
>
> HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS.
>
> MOMODOU JAGANA

Momodou I beg to differ on this issue

If you want to make a distinction then make it clear that SOME Arabs who
claim to be muslims commited this crime. That is more acceptable in my
opinion.
Secondly, it is a known fact the many Israeli commandos kill innocent
muslims and Arabs ,then escape into the wilderness and CLAIM afterwards
that they were muslims JUST to taint the Islamic Faith. It is happening
in Algeria, Palestine and Israel itself. So please be careful when you
make blanket statements like this . We have many crimes here in
Washington that we think are commited by Blacks against Blacks when it
is found out later that it is not so .Just a reminder -do you remember
the case in Boston the white man who shot his wife and said it was a
black guy !! and the case of Susan ?? of north Carolina that said a
black man kidnapped her children just later to admit she herself pushed
them into the Lake
Peace
Habib
--
MZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:16:04 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: suggestion
Message-ID: <34760824.45E2@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

KTouray@aol.com wrote:
>
> I am very glad that some of you agreed to my idea. I have also sent letters
> to various people whose adresses i had by calling them eventhough some are
> very reluctant to give their adresses. I tried to explain to them the reason
> behind it but they just couldn't buy it. I think i would end up hand
> delivering them instead. As we all know, everyone will not agree to this idea
> but all we need is something to start with. With or without everybody we can
> still do it . We cannot just give up because most people choose not to
> participate. Some people don't believe in starting anything because of risks
> that might involve but everything in live is risky in one way or another.
> Right now i am waiting for a few days to know what other people think about
> it and then we will be able to take it from there. As soon as i get some
> answers i will let you know.
> Thanks again, Fatou sanyang.

Fatou Sanyang, Can you please post your number again.
Habib
--
MZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:01:20 -0000
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <B0000018055@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit


MR MOMODOU.
THAT IS NOT CALLED KILLING.
THAT IS CALLED SELFDEFENCE, AND IS (SHOULD BE) DECIDED BY
THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(I hope some understand my understatement by overstating with Cap.letters...)

Regards,
Torstein
The Gambia

> WELL I SUPPOSE FEW YOUR OWN LIFE IS UNDER DANGER YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PROTECT
> YOURSELF,
> MOMODOU J



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:20:02 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <34760912.62C7@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jainaba Diallo wrote:
>
> Mr. Jagana,
>
> I have three questions for you....you may wanna respond to them or not
> at all. BTW, I am not trying to provoke you...some people think I am
> notorious in that regard. I'll not try to ridicule you either should you
> respond. It will help me a lot in contributing to this thread if you
> answer the questions below:
>
> 1. Do you believe that all arabs are muslim??
>
> 2. Do you believe that all Egyptians are arabs??
>
> 3. What is/are the reason(s) behind such acts af terror??
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jainaba.
> *********************************************************************
>
> ><< That sentence is dangerously getting close to racist comment. I
> > believe most Arabs don't share the views of extremists. I'm not
> > saying you are racist. This could very well be unintentional. We
> > should careful in how we present our views. >>
> >
> >
> >OUSMAN,
> >
> >I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THE DIFFENCE HERE BETWEEN BEEN A MUSLIM, AND
> BEEN AN
> >ARAB. AFTER ALL THE KILLERS ARE ARABS WHICH THERE IS NO DENIAL TO THAT
> FACT.
> >
> >HOWEVER THE MEDIA ( IN THE USA) DOES NOT DISTINGUISH THESE ARABS,
> RATHER THEY
> >CLASSIFIED THEM AS MUSLIM EXTEREMISTS WHICH I FEEL IS WRONG.
> >
> >IF YOU THING MY COMMENT IS GETTING CLOSE TO A RACIST COMMENT, WELL THAT
> IS
> >YOUR INTERPRETATION AND I RESPECT YOUR SENSE OF INTERPRETATION.
> >
> >HOWEVER I STAND BY MY CLASSIFICATION OF THSES MURDERS AS ARABS.
> >
> >
> >MOMODOU JAGANA
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Jainaba
those were very good questions and I am sure the picture will be clear
afterwards. Almost ALL muslims oppose any terrist acts -Arabs or non
Arabs. Secondly, less than ten percent of the world's muslim population
are Arabs.
--
peace
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:25:30 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Setting up foundation.
Message-ID: <34760A5A.47CD@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Gunjur@aol.com wrote:
>
> Fatou,
> l think that this is a good idea. It always breaks my heart when this sort of
> thing occurs. In many instances, these people have not been seen by family
> back home for years, and laying eyes on them even while dead is somewhat of a
> comfort for these families, otherwise, it is hard for them to put closure to
> the whole thing. l know that Islam dictates burial as soon as possible, but
> as someone pointed out to me, if transferring the body can be done
> immediately, then there is no harm done. l for one know that if l were to die
> here, l would want to be put to rest in Gambia. l have a suggestion. l like
> the proposal put forth for setting up the education foundation. Can we
> somehow set this foundation up to cover other things(for example this idea)
> as well as educational needs? This will simplify things by payment of just
> one annual dues. We can accomodate these other needs by perhaps increasing
> the annual dues to say $100.00 instead of the proposed $50.00. Some feedback
> please. Thanks
>
> Jabou Joh.
>
> The past few months have been very rough on the Gambians in the U.S.A .from
> immigration problems to death, some of us have been going through a rough
> time: it is my understanding that the immigration has raided some restaurants
> and unfortunately some of the people detained are our own blood. I have also
> realised that 4 gambians have passed away and family members partly depended
> on us tto contribute some money to send the deceased home for proper burial.
> Having thinking about all this, it occurred me that with the joint effort of
> everyone in this country, we can easily send deceased home. i think if we set
> up a foundation by making monthly or yearly contribution and holding at least
> quarterly meetings we will be well informed of what is happening to all of us
> and therefore help out with things that need to be taken care of.I know that
> it is not as easy as it seems, but a little time from everyone can make it
> happen.
> This is just a suggestion and i will be very happy to hear your points of
> view as we all know that two minds are better than one.I am willing to work
> with anybody on this and hoping that we will all participate in it.
> We all know that as inevitable as death is we will not want a close friend to
> be kept in the morgue waiting for money to be sent home for burial let alone
> ourselves or a family member.So please let us work together since this is
> something beyond our control.
> This does not have to be for only people in MD, anyone is welcome to be part
> of it. After all we can always transfer funds from one bank to another and
> therefore state to another.
> I am expecting replies from all and feel free to call me on (301)565-9427 if
> you would rather talk about it.
> thank you all, Fatou Sanyang.
>
> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
> Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
> Received: from relay13.mail.aol.com (relay13.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.13])
> by air16.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:36:11 -0500
> Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu
> [140.142.56.1])
> by relay13.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
> with ESMTP id AAA10915;
> Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:35:04 -0500 (EST)
> Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
> by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
> id VAA15163; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:34:50 -0800
> Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5])
> by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
> id VAA33982 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997
> 21:34:37 -0800
> Received: from mrin39.mail.aol.com (mrin39.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.149])
> by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP
> id VAA21543 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:34:36
> -0800
> Received: (from root@localhost)
> by mrin39.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0)
> id AAA28394 for gambia-l@u.washington.edu;
> Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST)
> Message-Id: <971120003404_-53874598@mrin39>
> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST)
> Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
> Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
> Precedence: bulk
> From: KTouray@AOL.COM
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: suggestion
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN


Jabou
Your sentiments are just like most of us and you are right if the body
of the deseaced can be transported as soon as possible( like the
Senegalese do- they have money set aside only for this purpose-) the it
is allowed according to most Islamic Scholars.

Let's do it

Habib
--
MZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:27:34 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Lif insurance etc.
Message-ID: <34760AD6.164D@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Gunjur@aol.com wrote:
>
> Malanding and others,
>
> Life insurance is fine, but please keep in mind that there is usually a long
> process to go through before the insurer pays up. Unless of course there is
> some kind of special arrangement with the insurer. Perhaps Dr. Kamara can
> give details of the coverage etc.
>
> Jabou Joh.
>
> I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be
> important that we consider all options before we get into it.
> Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance
> .. I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions and
>
> come up with reccommendations.
>
> Malanding Jaiteh
>
> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
> Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
> Received: from relay06.mail.aol.com (relay06.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.6]) by
> air12.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:42:06 -0500
> Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu
> [140.142.56.1])
> by relay06.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
> with ESMTP id QAA15242;
> Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:26:00 -0500 (EST)
> Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
> by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
> id NAA06463; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:44 -0800
> Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.5])
> by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
> id NAA44242 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997
> 13:25:31 -0800
> Received: from news.mtu.edu (root@news.mtu.edu [141.219.70.11])
> by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP
> id NAA07015 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:25
> -0800
> Received: from mtu.edu (root@mtu.edu [141.219.70.1])
> by news.mtu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10147
> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:25:23 -0500 (EST)
> Received: from oak.mtu.edu (oak.ffr.mtu.edu [141.219.149.151])
> by mtu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03982
> for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:25:23 -0500 (EST)
> Received: by oak.mtu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)
> id QAA03945; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:16 -0500
> Message-Id: <199711202123.QAA03945@oak.mtu.edu>
> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:23:15 -0500 (EST)
> Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
> Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
> Precedence: bulk
> From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: lets' do it
> In-Reply-To: <199711202031.PAA04935@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "N'Deye
> Marie N'Jie" at Nov 20, 97 03:31:30 pm
> Content-Type: text
> X-Authentication-Warning: campus0.mtu.edu: Host oak.ffr.mtu.edu
> [141.219.149.151] claimed to be oak.mtu.edu
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
Jabou it does not take that long because the funeral home bills the
insurance companies and they pay all the costs including the Airfare in
some cases.
just for your information
Habib
--
MZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:10:42 EST
From: "BOJANG,BUBA" <BBOJANG@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re subscription
Message-ID: <21NOV97.19632921.0017.MUSIC@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>

Fellas,
What are we waiting for in responding positively to K. Touray's
initiation? no one knows what will happen to you the next minute
you get up from this computer, so let onesgood health today not
predict good health for you tomorrow.
Please enlist me among those who agree to it.
Buba Bojang ( Bada )







------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:05:31 -0600
From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Junius' words
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971121174431.3af78632@etbu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Moe,
From your reply to Bass, it seems as if though even before you sent your
first posting, you already had an inkling that the author, Junius, was
actually refering to Africa. I like to think that he was actually refering
to the English authorities. One has to really understand the historical
situation in England at the time of relevance to better understand the
semantics of this quote. Before i go into detail about the
socioeconopolitical situation in England at the time, i will just refer you
back to the first sentence of the mail. It reads as follows: "In his first
letter to the Public Advertiser on January 21, 1789, Junius'
assessment of the United Kingdom (for how government of his day was
conducted) reads .... In my humble opinion, the above statement explicitly
says that Junius was assessing how the govt of the United Kingdom was
conducted at the time in question. For that reason, to ask the question:
"Could one say that he was writing of BLACK AFRICA????" is a distortion of
the context in which the assessment was made. Nevertheless, i definitely
believe that even though out of context, the same quote could be said of
Africa "today." Notice i emphasized "today" and not 1789. To the best of my
recollection, Africa in 1789 was composed of empires and not the independent
nations as we know them today. To be brief, i say that back then, the
emperors and kings of the day in Africa got what they wanted from the
people, including "civil obedience." It is this "civil obedience" in 1789
Africa that has further convinced me that Junius was refering to England
when he said "dissensions in all parts of the EMPIRE." I capitalized
"EMPIRE" to show that England was/is an empire as well. Now let's address
the socioeconopolitical situation of England in 1789.
1789 found England at the infancy of her Industrial Revolution.
Prior to 1803, England was primarily agrarian, but with the invention of
several mechanical devices after 1740 (i'm not saying there were no
mechanical devices before 1740), the economy shifted its focus from small
scale yeomanry agriculture to institutionalized agri-production. This
destruction of the yeomanry class resulted in a massive influx of peasants
from the rural to the urban areas in search for work and a decent living.
This in turn brought about a resultant decrease in agricultural productivity
for a while. A major reason could be attributed to the fact that some of the
major inventions of the time, the Steam Engine in particular, was only
patented by James Watt in 1769 but its use in the smelting of iron and steel
did not come about until 1788. So in essence, we see that manufacturing was
also very low in addition to a decreased agricultural productivity.
Quite naturally, the general population was very critical of the
changes from the established agrarian system to a new system (industrial)
whose effects were already being felt very hardly by the average person. It
would not take long, but during this time that some historians have dubbed
the "Stagnation Period," life in England was quite miserable. In fact it was
so distasteful that the govt started rationing some essentials. The people
thus lost confidence in govt policies. Consequently, riots and other
criminal behavior became a necessary option. In my opinion, it is this loss
in "obedience for the law," this "ill-condition of the people," this
"distrust and disaffection" for the govt, this "dissension in all parts of
the empire" in the form of riots, that Junius was talking about in 1789. I
opine loudly that he was not referring to Africa.
To ascertain my argument, several economists have addressed the
conditions in England during this same period. Adam Smith (the father of
Capitalism/Competition), in direct response to the conditions in England
wrote "The Wealth of Nations" in 1776. He was a proponent of a freely
competitive market system where the govt did not dictate the ventures of its
citizenry. He explored how govt and individuals can accumulate wealth
through competition without govt interference. This was warranted by the
circumstances in England. This new way of thinking though did not sit well
with the French because it was an extension of LAISSEZ-FAIRE (free market
economics) without giving any credit to the French. At the same time,
America had already declared independence from Great Britain in 1776, the
same year that Adam Smith wrote his now famous doctrine. The only thing that
i can deduce from the French-connection and this American-connection is that
for England, there was "a total loss of respect abroad in the eyes of
foreign powers." Again we see that Junius was talking to England.
As regards the level of poverty in England, another great economist,
Malthus, wrote in 1798 his Theory on Population to address the causes of
poverty (again England). Finally, one other great economist, Ricardo, wrote
in 1817 "Principles of Political Economy and Taxation" to address how the
accumulated wealth through Adam Smith's theory can be evenly distributed
amongst the population through taxation to remedy the conditions of poverty
that Malthus talked about. My conclusion from this is that while Junius'
statement was to prove prophetic as applicable to Africa, several other
thinkers/economists before and after him have addressed the conditions of
the English people in 1789. Junius was probably lamenting the radical
changes brought about by industrialization, with its subsequent problems. It
turns out though that Junius was wrong because America's or France's loss of
respect for England had nothing to do with Industrialization, rather
everything to do with national sovereignty in the case of America, and
fundamental principle in the case of France. Also, industrialization turned
out to be the best thing that ever happened to England in particular and the
world in general. Maybe Junius' fear was valid at the time, but they are
certainly ridiculous by today's standards.
I thus rest my case. Have a good weekend everybody. Peace!!!!!

It's Tamsir.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:20:06 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Junius' words
Message-ID: <9711220420.AA45446@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Tamsir, you wrote:

>
> Moe,
> From your reply to Bass, it seems as if though even before you sent your
> first posting, you already had an inkling that the author, Junius, was
> actually refering to Africa.


Ofcourse not, bro. Tamsir. The purpose was to demonstrate how exact the
excerpt might have purported the the present day African scenario of
shortcomings, eventhough it was written well before the days of our time.
I think Bass understood precisely (I assume) the reason for the comparison
as shown by his reactive comment of provocational interference on my part.
Eventhough not totally intentioned, I thought that the excerpt might steer
us in the direction of the ultimate debate on the cure for Africa's
economic (and political) underdevelopment as seen by the western nations
that continually inflict wounds of laughter on us.

Nonetheless, the contents of your response were well noted and understood.
Thank you for the auxilliary lesson of history that must have consumed
some of your precious time while writing. It is very much appreciated! I
will respond to you as soon as time permits. At the moment, however, I am
kind of swamped with projects and will even be forced (unwillingly and
unhappily) to stay away from my email for the next few days.

Have a good weekend!

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS
Tamsir, do you know of any good sources of history of the west african
tribes? I am looking for sources (hopefully on the net) of history of the
"Toucoleur" tribe(s) of senegambia to link/integrate to my website. If you
know of any, please let me know via private mail. Thanks.

Go to Top of Page

Momodou



Denmark
10540 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2021 :  15:20:11  Show Profile Send Momodou a Private Message  Reply with Quote
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 06:23:52 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Junius' words
Message-ID: <01bcf6f6$13573000$LocalHost@q-tel.qatar.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Absolutely on the point there! I was only depressed by the fact that
something written so long ago as 'your' that speech would be so correct in
describing the state of affairs of our continent even as we enter the fourth
decade of our independence.

Thanks for the excerpt and keep up the good work down there!


Regards Basss!
-----Original Message-----
From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, November 22, 1997 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: Junius' words


>Bass, you wrote:
>
>> Mr.Jallow!
>> You are really provocative! But I must admit that your
this
>> excerpt sounds dangerously close to discribing the present state of
affairs
>> of present day Africa.Please,try to be nice to us next time you send a
>> Quote,and keep up the good work down there!
>>
>>
>> Regards Bassss!
>The excerpt above is directly related to our problem of lack of a
>political
>system that would serve as a road map to build a well-organized society.
>We lack visionary leaders who can frame a government suitable for the
>flowering of democracy and economic development. We condemn western ideas,
>such as democracy, as unsuitable for our society, yet our intellectuals
>look foolish making those accusations without a native substitute. We are
>invariably impressed with people with higher education without asking
>whether their acclaimed learning can transform our society. The
>politicians we choose to lead us are chosen not for leadership skills that
>develop society but for the client-patron relations we may acquire later
>from them. When soldiers see the educated class and politicians doing
>things for only themselves, they too imagine to become part of the system,
>whereafter more hell breaks loose.
>
>The worst thing (sadly of course) is that any intellectual who seeks to
>create modernization in Africa is condemned as too western for the nation.
>Thus, to survive, he goes along, to get along. Is this not why some of us
>refuse to go back home?
>
>Will we ever witness the "miracles" of change????????
>
>Have an enjoyable weekend!
>
>Regards,
>Moe S. Jallow
>
>==========================================================================
> mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 00:06:04 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Another brother is down.....
Message-ID: <19971122080605.11103.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Folks,

I am speechless.....

Jainaba.
**********************************************************************

>By MARY BOYLE
>.c The Associated Press
>
>DENVER (Nov. 21) - A 19-year-old skinhead confessed on television
>today to taunting and killing a West African immigrant at a bus stop
>and wounding and paralyzing a nurse who tried to intervene.
>
>The shootings Tuesday were part of a series of hate crimes just >before
President Clinton is scheduled to arrive for a Saturday >fund-raising
visit. A policeman answering a prowler call was >ambushed, and another
officer gunned down after chasing a skinhead >suspect was mocked in
death by having his name scrawled on a dead >pig.
>
>Nathan Thill, jailed for investigation of first-degree murder, denied
>shooting anyone until an alleged accomplice, Jeremiah Barnum, 23,
>surrendered late Thursday. Then, jailers allowed Thill to call in TV
>stations before dawn to say he was the only one involved.
>
>''It wasn't a planned thing,'' Thill told KMGH-TV, speaking tersely.
>''Drank a little bit. I'm a deep thinker. Walked through town with my
>gun in my waist, saw the black guy and thought he didn't belong where
>he was at. How easy it would be to just take him out right there.
>Didn't seem like much to me.''
>
>Thill said he taunted Oumar Dia, 38, who was from Mauritania, before
>shooting him and was surprised that he wasn't more defensive. ''I
>asked him, when I pointed the gun at him, if he was ready to die and
>he said, 'Yes.'''
>
>Jeannie VanVelkinburg, 36, the mother of two boys, tried to help Dia
>but was hit in the spine by a bullet and paralyzed from the waist
>down, authorities said.
>
>The spectacle of a shaved-headed teen-ager with a swastika among his
>many tattoos coolly discussing a racist killing in jailhouse
>interviews shook Denver, a city with a black mayor that prides itself
>on being modern and diverse.
>
>''We're not going to tolerate people shooting anyone regardless to
>one's own beliefs based upon someone's color ... someone's gender or
>sexual orientation, or whether they wear a blue uniform,'' Mayor
>Wellington Webb said Thursday.
>
>''We're not going to tolerate it and we're not going to give up the
>streets of Denver.''
>
>Young skinheads also were suspected of involvement in a shooting and
>carjacking Thursday in a working-class neighborhood. KUSA TV reported
>today that police arrested a teen-ager whose parents turned him in.
>Two other suspects were being sought.
>
>Officer Greg Vacca, responding to a prowler call at an apartment
>complex, was shot at several times by someone crouched in the bushes.
>Vacca fire back, but the attacker escaped and nobody was wounded.
>
>A short time later, Randy Hargrave was driving to his doctor's office
>when he was stopped by two men and a woman who demanded a ride. One
>man had a red tattoo on his arm and a shaved head.
>
>When he saw the men had guns, Hargrave stepped on the gas, hitting >one
of them. Police later said one man fit the description of Vacca's
>elusive gunman.
>
>On Wednesday, a police officer arrested a self-described skinhead at >a
city motel. Police said the man had an assault rifle, ammunition, >some
components for a pipe bomb and stolen license plates.
>
>The same day, police found a cruel reminder of another deadly >incident
involving suspected skinheads. A dead pig was dumped in >front of a
police
>substation, the name of veteran Officer Bruce VanderJagt scrawled
>across its torso.
>
>VanderJagt was killed last week with an assault rifle following a
>30-mile car chase. The suspect, Mattheaus Jaehnig, 25, killed himself
>with VanderJagt's service pistol.
>
>Jaehnig, a longtime member of a group called the Denver Skins, had
>been arrested seven times since dropping out of high school. One
>arrest was for ordering his dogs to attack a police officer -
>VanderJagt.
>
> AP-NY-11-21-97 1004EST

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:01:21 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
Message-ID: <34772C01.E54@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jainaba!
You wrote:

> However, a FEW list members have consistently demonstrated their =

> inability, either deliberate or otherwise, to grasp even the simplest =

> ideas. This is not to ridicule them, but these intellectually challenge=
d =

> people just lack the ability to read and comprehend even the simplest =

> sentence.

I think we have to realise that Gambia-l is as diverse as The Gambia
itself. You have secondary school graduates, those with O=B4 Levels, =

A=B4 levels, Associate Degrees, B.A., Pg. Dips, Masters, Ph.Ds and maybe
even Professors. Another thing we have to realise is that English is not
our mother tongue. If the debates on this list were carried out in
Wollof, Mandinka or any other Gambian language, those who have problems
grasping even the simplest sentence would not have such problems because
the debates would be in their language. We are not in any way perfect. =

Because of the diversity of educational backgrounds, it is of course
expected that the level of analysis is going to be different. Some of us
are not as gifted or as adept at arguing points or providing
"intellectual" analyses as others. I however don=B4t think that this is
enough reason to shut up. I am not a founding member of Gambia-l but I
don=B4t think Katim and co envisioned this list to be only for well
educated people (correct me if I am wrong). In that case they would have
had educational requirements for membership. Maybe something like: "Only
those with Masters degrees and above and proof that they can argue
intellectually need apply for membership". However, such a requirement
is not present and therefore all members have a right to participate in
the debates no matter how much of a "pepper soup analysis" they provide.
We as receivers of such "pepper soup analysis"/analyses can conveniently
delete in the privacy of our homes, schools, offices etc. whatever we
deem rubbish without telling people that what they send is rubbish. We
do not have such a right. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, my sense
can be everyone else=B4s nonsense and vice versa. If I can read everyone
else=B4s nonsense, then I definitely have a right to post my nonsense.
This is the beauty of having a forum like Gambia-l. Another thing of
beauty is that we can talk about things from an ordinary point of view.
Gambia-l would be very boring if all that was sent to it was
"intellectual". Thanks.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

Jainaba Diallo wrote:
> =

> Gambia-lers,
> =

> My take as per the thread: When intellectuals argue....
> =

> It is necessary to, as much as possible, put an idea in the right
> context so as to elicit some constructive intellectual input from
> others, be it by way of reviews or criticism.
> =

> However, a FEW list members have consistently demonstrated their
> inability, either deliberate or otherwise, to grasp even the simplest
> ideas. This is not to ridicule them, but these intellectually challenge=
d
> people just lack the ability to read and comprehend even the simplest
> sentence. In their response to a wide variety of postings, one is left
> wondering whether they read the posting to which they were responding o=
r
> whether they are just plain ignorant.
> =

> Because not much is required to be on the list, it is not surprising
> that people of different intellect and common sense find themselves in
> the same newsgroup. I am not suggesting a rule or gatekeeper to weed ou=
t
> the morons or borderline *****s, but the fact is that some people need=

> to be spoon fed, literarily. They provide no humor, and are nothing but=

> poster "boys" for ignorance. It is good that they are a TINY MINORITY,
> otherwise this forum will be nothing but A CONFEDRACY OF DUNCES where
> ignorance is embraced and common sense ridiculed.
> =

> There are also those who combine ignorance, stupidity, and humor. Thei=
r
> response sometimes leaves one wondering how they manage to go to
> work(school) and find their way home everyday. Believe it or not, I can=

> stand these people, because they kind of provide comic relief on the
> list. It is atimes refreshing to read their pepper-soup analysis....Com=
e
> on, who doesn't need a laugh after a long days work.
> =

> Because of the above observation about the quality of debate since I
> joined the list, and also because of some postings in the archieves fro=
m
> the same bunch of people, I will henceforth append a disclaimer to all
> my postings to the list.
> =

> I don't claim to have monoply of wisdom, nor do I wish to limit the
> scope of debate or criticism of my posting(s) by appending disclaimers=
=2E
> All, I ask is that people take the time to read and digest an idea
> before rushing to the key board. Most importantly, people should aim at=

> focusing on the issue at hand, rather than an unrelated issue (such as
> the confrontation I've had with some folks in the past).
> =

> Hope that I have finally exhaled!!
> =

> Later....
> =

> Jainaba.
> =

> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:24:59 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: "Operation Dirty Trick"
Message-ID: <3477318B.2075@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi!
I read in the Stockholm Underground newspaper Metro an article which
I think might be interesting to some. For those who do not find it
interesting, my apologies. The article is in Swedish and this is my
translation.

Cuba would have received the blame if space journey failed

John Glenn became USA=B4s first astronaut to travel around the world in
1962. If Glenn=B4s trip had failed, the American military had a plan read=
y
to blame it=B4s enemy Cuba for the failure.

This is what the Washington Times wrote. The newspaper revealed a 35
year old plan, Operation Dirty Trick, that has just been declassified.
The American goverment was so obsessed with its enmity with Cuba that it
didn=B4t even think twice about getting false evidence to prove that Cuba=

was ready to sabotage Glenn=B4s trip. If the trip had failed, American
agents would have been able to provide proof that Fidel Castro=B4s
government was responsible.

SOURCE: TT-DPA in Metro, Friday, 21st. November 1997

This from a country that is supposedly the world leader in democracy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:02:06 -0000
From: "jgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: It's the economy, Narr
Message-ID: <B0000018201@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sent by "Joern Grotnes" <jgr@commit.gm>
via Commit


Bass,

>this debate "further" as you requested,esp. now that many of

Thanks for enlightening me on the situation in The Gambia, seen from =
your point of view, it is appreciated.

I am truly sorry that your reply escaped my attention for a long time, =
I've only kept half an eye on the Gambia-L lately due to being busy. I =
admit I thought you had taken the advice of the "discussion-stoppers", =
and ignored me.

(My impression is that lately many people on the List are concerning =
themself about what others are doing on the list, including asking =
people to leave and even critisising the ways ideas are presented. I =
have a background from BBS systems, and know how easily the heat can =
ruin the discussion, so I am glad we can keep a discussion on this calm =
level, even when disagreeing strongly.)

The reason I used the word "Lebanese" is due to the fact that "Narr" =
means nothing to me, except that it means "Fool" (or "Jester") in =
Norwegian. I have had some discussions with my Gambian friends here, and =
I find that there is invariable a resentment against Lebanese. The =
arguments are much similar to the ones you find against Jews, without =
comparisition otherwise, that they keep to themself, are stingy with =
their money and sometimes that have low business morals. On the other =
hand, when I inquire about this or that one specific guy, I can often =
get the response that "he's okay". (In other cases it is: he's a crook, =
but that is a respone I also can often get when inquiring about a =
Gambian businessman).

I have read your piece carefully, and I read it more as a constructive =
criticism against ineffective government than against the Narrs as a =
"race". They are, as you say, everywhere there is money to be made or =
power to be had (boils down to the same), in that respect they are not =
from any special nationality. In Australia, they are Chinese, in Ghana, =
Indian (some places in Norway, the Western Norwegians are perceived in =
this way too) etc. etc. These are commonly known as businessmen and they =
are in the business to make money. It's pretty futile to discuss if the =
Gambians scepticism agains them or their non-interest in venturing =
outside their groups came first, the situation of isolation (and =
therefore the perception of "them" as a group) exists.=20

About government, I agree with you that the government's duty is to make =
sure that the business going on in the country is beneficial to the =
country and the country's inhabitants.=20
But I don't agree with you that the Gambian government is capable of =
doing any good to their economy by restricting any kind of business. =
Incentives to improve the situation for local businessmen are not easy =
to invent, therefore governments often prefer to tax the non-local =
businessmen in stead, which gives more money to the state but does =
nothing to improve the level of activity in the country. I think the =
Gambia government is "top heavy" to a very large extent, that means they =
have far too much government in relation to the business they govern. =
Most counties has had to learn the lesson that you cannot improve a =
country by increasing government spending, no matter how nice it is that =
a lot of people can get a job there. Reason being that government does =
not produce anything.

Since I'm deviating from the original issue anyway, I must say that one =
source of wonder for me has been the stability of the Dalasi. Now, I am =
starting to wonder if the reason it is so stable is excactly the fact =
that The Gambia is currently producing very little. If the money used to =
run The Gambia is mainly "foreign aid", and there is not enough =
production to generate any large values by export, the Dalasi is in =
effect identical with whatever Western valuta is used to shore up the =
economy. Any inputs on that thought?

Best regards,

Jorn
Commit
The Gambia


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:36:38 -0000
From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
Message-ID: <B0000018204@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit



Gambia-L.

If I didn't know that this mail was from a "sister"
I would swear that it had to come from one of
the Neo-Nazi discussion groups.
Such a description of persons based only on
a few sentences sent by mail from any of them, is not just
outrageous but clearly discriminating and tastes of an
arrogance that belongs in another era.
The "disclaimer" at the end is if possible even more arrogant
and shows an ignorance of its own writing.
Bassirou and G-L.
If the future thread of Gambia-L is to allow these "viewpoints" to stand
uncorrected, I will personally be very disappointed and feel discouraged
in participating actively on this forum.
My view is that this kind of mocking and harassment has nothing to do
in a moderated discussion list like this.
I believe one aspect of intelligence is called "social intelligence" and is
supposed to make a person capable of participating with other persons
on a minimum level of decency and respect for others.

>From The Gambia
Torstein


> Gambia-lers,
>
> My take as per the thread: When intellectuals argue....
>
>
> It is necessary to, as much as possible, put an idea in the right
> context so as to elicit some constructive intellectual input from
> others, be it by way of reviews or criticism.
>
> However, a FEW list members have consistently demonstrated their
> inability, either deliberate or otherwise, to grasp even the simplest
> ideas. This is not to ridicule them, but these intellectually challenged
> people just lack the ability to read and comprehend even the simplest
> sentence. In their response to a wide variety of postings, one is left
> wondering whether they read the posting to which they were responding or
> whether they are just plain ignorant.
> Because not much is required to be on the list, it is not surprising
> that people of different intellect and common sense find themselves in
> the same newsgroup. I am not suggesting a rule or gatekeeper to weed out
> the morons or borderline *****s, but the fact is that some people need
> to be spoon fed, literarily. They provide no humor, and are nothing but
> poster "boys" for ignorance. It is good that they are a TINY MINORITY,
> otherwise this forum will be nothing but A CONFEDRACY OF DUNCES where
> ignorance is embraced and common sense ridiculed.
>
> There are also those who combine ignorance, stupidity, and humor. Their
> response sometimes leaves one wondering how they manage to go to
> work(school) and find their way home everyday. Believe it or not, I can
> stand these people, because they kind of provide comic relief on the
> list. It is atimes refreshing to read their pepper-soup analysis....Come
> on, who doesn't need a laugh after a long days work.
>
> Because of the above observation about the quality of debate since I
> joined the list, and also because of some postings in the archieves from
> the same bunch of people, I will henceforth append a disclaimer to all
> my postings to the list.
>
> I don't claim to have monoply of wisdom, nor do I wish to limit the
> scope of debate or criticism of my posting(s) by appending disclaimers.
> All, I ask is that people take the time to read and digest an idea
> before rushing to the key board. Most importantly, people should aim at
> focusing on the issue at hand, rather than an unrelated issue (such as
> the confrontation I've had with some folks in the past).
>
> Hope that I have finally exhaled!!
>
> Later....
>
> Jainaba.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:06:01 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp1.erols.com
Subject: Re: Another brother is down.....
Message-ID: <34773B29.1813@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jainaba Diallo wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I am speechless.....
>
> Jainaba.
> **********************************************************************
>
> >By MARY BOYLE
> >.c The Associated Press
> >
> >DENVER (Nov. 21) - A 19-year-old skinhead confessed on television
> >today to taunting and killing a West African immigrant at a bus stop
> >and wounding and paralyzing a nurse who tried to intervene.
> >
> >The shootings Tuesday were part of a series of hate crimes just
>before
> President Clinton is scheduled to arrive for a Saturday >fund-raising
> visit. A policeman answering a prowler call was >ambushed, and another
> officer gunned down after chasing a skinhead >suspect was mocked in
> death by having his name scrawled on a dead >pig.
> >
> >Nathan Thill, jailed for investigation of first-degree murder, denied
> >shooting anyone until an alleged accomplice, Jeremiah Barnum, 23,
> >surrendered late Thursday. Then, jailers allowed Thill to call in TV
> >stations before dawn to say he was the only one involved.
> >
> >''It wasn't a planned thing,'' Thill told KMGH-TV, speaking tersely.
> >''Drank a little bit. I'm a deep thinker. Walked through town with my
> >gun in my waist, saw the black guy and thought he didn't belong where
> >he was at. How easy it would be to just take him out right there.
> >Didn't seem like much to me.''
> >
> >Thill said he taunted Oumar Dia, 38, who was from Mauritania, before
> >shooting him and was surprised that he wasn't more defensive. ''I
> >asked him, when I pointed the gun at him, if he was ready to die and
> >he said, 'Yes.'''
> >
> >Jeannie VanVelkinburg, 36, the mother of two boys, tried to help Dia
> >but was hit in the spine by a bullet and paralyzed from the waist
> >down, authorities said.
> >
> >The spectacle of a shaved-headed teen-ager with a swastika among his
> >many tattoos coolly discussing a racist killing in jailhouse
> >interviews shook Denver, a city with a black mayor that prides itself
> >on being modern and diverse.
> >
> >''We're not going to tolerate people shooting anyone regardless to
> >one's own beliefs based upon someone's color ... someone's gender or
> >sexual orientation, or whether they wear a blue uniform,'' Mayor
> >Wellington Webb said Thursday.
> >
> >''We're not going to tolerate it and we're not going to give up the
> >streets of Denver.''
> >
> >Young skinheads also were suspected of involvement in a shooting and
> >carjacking Thursday in a working-class neighborhood. KUSA TV reported
> >today that police arrested a teen-ager whose parents turned him in.
> >Two other suspects were being sought.
> >
> >Officer Greg Vacca, responding to a prowler call at an apartment
> >complex, was shot at several times by someone crouched in the bushes.
> >Vacca fire back, but the attacker escaped and nobody was wounded.
> >
> >A short time later, Randy Hargrave was driving to his doctor's office
> >when he was stopped by two men and a woman who demanded a ride. One
> >man had a red tattoo on his arm and a shaved head.
> >
> >When he saw the men had guns, Hargrave stepped on the gas, hitting
>one
> of them. Police later said one man fit the description of Vacca's
> >elusive gunman.
> >
> >On Wednesday, a police officer arrested a self-described skinhead at
>a
> city motel. Police said the man had an assault rifle, ammunition, >some
> components for a pipe bomb and stolen license plates.
> >
> >The same day, police found a cruel reminder of another deadly
>incident
> involving suspected skinheads. A dead pig was dumped in >front of a
> police
> >substation, the name of veteran Officer Bruce VanderJagt scrawled
> >across its torso.
> >
> >VanderJagt was killed last week with an assault rifle following a
> >30-mile car chase. The suspect, Mattheaus Jaehnig, 25, killed himself
> >with VanderJagt's service pistol.
> >
> >Jaehnig, a longtime member of a group called the Denver Skins, had
> >been arrested seven times since dropping out of high school. One
> >arrest was for ordering his dogs to attack a police officer -
> >VanderJagt.
> >
> > AP-NY-11-21-97 1004EST
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Quelle domage!!!
This is real terrorism
May his soul rest in peace
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:24:52 -0500
From: "Amadou L. Fall" <jambaar@enter.net>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: lets' do it
Message-ID: <199711221723.MAA15868@mail.enter.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,
I second Malanding's suggestion that we set up some formal group to
coordinate the effort. You can count me in as an interested party.

Peace to All!!!

Amadou Fall

----------
> From: Malanding S. Jaiteh <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: lets' do it
> Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 4:23 PM
>
> I think this is an idea whichlong overdue. However, it will be
> important that we consider all options before we get into it.
> Earlier on Dr Kamara in Seatle forwarded something on life insurance
> . I will suggest that a team be set up to review the various suggestions
and
> come up with reccommendations.
>
> Malanding Jaiteh
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:03:09 +0200
From: chakys@image.dk
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another brother is down.....
Message-ID: <199711221901.UAA25758@mail.image.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi G-lers,
We are constantly in danger in some areas. About 2 weeks, one
sudanese student has been killed by a skinhead in the CZECH republic.
What's unbearable is in Denmark , the skinheads are fri to do what
they like. During the last general election (18 of nov) a head of the
danes nazi organisation was a candidate in GREVE town. Here they have
their own radio station, papers, tapes......Fortunately , he was
not successful.
May those brothers soul rest in peace.
Chakys.




------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:32:47 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
Message-ID: <01bcf78e$2da906c0$182385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Torstein!
I think Mr.Gassama has already addressed Jainaba's attitude
in such a simple and clear manner that I cannot match.All I need to add to
that is that this Forum is a Gambian Village and not a research Centre at
Columbia or Cambridge;and ,as a result,it is the responsibility of the
people with 'higher IQs' to make sure that the loaded messages they send to
us,the little people,are simplified to a degree that would allow us to
figure out what the message is all about.And if they fail to do their that
homework properly,then they should desist from blaming us for our lack of
understanding.

And ,finally,stop worrying too much and Cheer up! because my hunch is that
Jainaba will eventually calm down and start working with the group instead
of in opposition to it.And keep up the good work down there!

Regards
Basssss!
-----Original Message-----
From: tgr@commit.gm <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: 22/ÑÌÈ/1418 10:15 ã
Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!


>Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> via Commit
>
>
>
>Gambia-L.
>
>If I didn't know that this mail was from a "sister"
>I would swear that it had to come from one of
****************************************************************************
**
Jainaba wrote:-

I don't claim to have monoply of wisdom, nor do I wish to limit the
>> scope of debate or criticism of my posting(s) by appending disclaimers.
>> All, I ask is that people take the time to read and digest an idea
>> before rushing to the key board. Most importantly, people should aim at
>> focusing on the issue at hand, rather than an unrelated issue (such as
>> the confrontation I've had with some folks in the past).
>>
>> Hope that I have finally exhaled!!
>>
>> Later....
>>
>> Jainaba.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:30:06 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
Message-ID: <9711222230.AA42082@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Bass, you wrote:

>
> Torstein!
> I think Mr.Gassama has already addressed Jainaba's attitude
> in such a simple and clear manner that I cannot match.

Bass,

Thank you for noticing the "glamourous" way our brother, Buharry,
responded to Jainaba's triffling remarks pertaining to the members of this
list. Any attempt by me to add anything to that would squander the purpose
of his excellent response. I see Jainaba's response as nothing more than
an open insult to the nice and peaceful members of Gambia-L. If I were
her, I would simply apologize and move on. She has angered many members of
this list, especially some of the ladies. We, the men, tend to ignore her
remarks simply because we respect her as a "sister" and a "lady" but there
comes a time when one has to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. For someone who seems
to "know it all", it is amazing how she failed to realize that on the
internet, freedom of speech is prized as a way of life rather than a dim
of abstraction. I will say no more on this.

Just a thought (and happily enjoying my weekend with my family).

Have a good one too.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 06:29:37 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
Message-ID: <01bcf7c0$06fda940$312385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Mr.Jallow!
What more could I say except thank you and keep up the
good work down there!


Regards Basssss!
-----Original Message-----
From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: 23/ÑÌÈ/1418 07:33 Õ
Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!


>Bass, you wrote:
>
>>
>> Torstein!
>> I think Mr.Gassama has already addressed Jainaba's attitude
>> in such a simple and clear manner that I cannot match.
>
>Bass,
>
>Thank you for noticing the "glamourous" way our brother, Buharry,
>responded to Jainaba's triffling remarks pertaining to the members of this
>list. Any attempt by me to add anything to that would squander the purpose
>of his excellent response. I see Jainaba's response as nothing more than
>an open insult to the nice and peaceful members of Gambia-L. If I were
>her, I would simply apologize and move on. She has angered many members of
>this list, especially some of the ladies. We, the men, tend to ignore her
>remarks simply because we respect her as a "sister" and a "lady" but there
>comes a time when one has to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. For someone who seems
>to "know it all", it is amazing how she failed to realize that on the
>internet, freedom of speech is prized as a way of life rather than a dim
>of abstraction. I will say no more on this.
>
>Just a thought (and happily enjoying my weekend with my family).
>
>Have a good one too.
>
>Regards,
>Moe S. Jallow
>
>========================================================================
> mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:48:03 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Subscription
Message-ID: <971123004802_508320276@mrin83.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-11-21 18:46:05 EST, BSallah writes:

<< Please subscribe her to Gambia-L. Her address is:

yjeng@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu

Thanks Isha Sallah >>


---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Subscription
Date: 97-11-21 18:46:05 EST
From: BSallah
To: MJagana

Hi Jagana:

I was able to get Yaikah's correct address.

Please subscribe her to Gambia-L. Her address is:

yjeng@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu

Thanks Isha Sallah

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 21:53:50 PST
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
Message-ID: <19971123055350.22207.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Mr. Gassama,

Your's below is the only one worth a response (as per this thread).
I will do so tomorrow. Kinda busy tonite.

Yours in diaspora,

Jainaba.
**********************************************************************
>
> I think we have to realise that Gambia-l is as diverse as The Gambia
>itself. You have secondary school graduates, those with O=B4 Levels, =
>
>A=B4 levels, Associate Degrees, B.A., Pg. Dips, Masters, Ph.Ds and
maybe
>even Professors. Another thing we have to realise is that English is
not
>our mother tongue. If the debates on this list were carried out in
>Wollof, Mandinka or any other Gambian language, those who have problems
>grasping even the simplest sentence would not have such problems
because
>the debates would be in their language. We are not in any way perfect.
=
>
>Because of the diversity of educational backgrounds, it is of course
>expected that the level of analysis is going to be different. Some of
us
>are not as gifted or as adept at arguing points or providing
>"intellectual" analyses as others. I however don=B4t think that this is
>enough reason to shut up. I am not a founding member of Gambia-l but I
>don=B4t think Katim and co envisioned this list to be only for well
>educated people (correct me if I am wrong). In that case they would
have
>had educational requirements for membership. Maybe something like:
"Only
>those with Masters degrees and above and proof that they can argue
>intellectually need apply for membership". However, such a requirement
>is not present and therefore all members have a right to participate in
>the debates no matter how much of a "pepper soup analysis" they
provide.
>We as receivers of such "pepper soup analysis"/analyses can
conveniently
>delete in the privacy of our homes, schools, offices etc. whatever we
>deem rubbish without telling people that what they send is rubbish. We
>do not have such a right. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, my sense
>can be everyone else=B4s nonsense and vice versa. If I can read
everyone
>else=B4s nonsense, then I definitely have a right to post my nonsense.
>This is the beauty of having a forum like Gambia-l. Another thing of
>beauty is that we can talk about things from an ordinary point of view.
>Gambia-l would be very boring if all that was sent to it was
>"intellectual". Thanks.
> Buharry.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 01:59:56 -0500 (EST)
From: KTouray@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re:Number for Habib
Message-ID: <971123015955_-1667336944@mrin39>

3015659427

------------------------------

End of GAMBIA-L Digest 95
*************************
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
| More
Jump To:
Bantaba in Cyberspace © 2005-2021 Nijii Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 6.21 seconds. User Policy, Privacy & Disclaimer | Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06