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Momodou



Denmark
10540 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2021 :  15:26:35  Show Profile Send Momodou a Private Message  Reply with Quote
GAMBIA-L Digest 96

Topics covered in this issue include:

1)
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
2) Subscription
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
3) List Traffic - Deja vu
by MJawara@aol.com
4) new member subscription
by "BOJANG,BUBA" <BBOJANG@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>
5) Re: Race and color
by "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
6) Re: new member subscription
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
7) Dr Sulayman Nyang
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
8) Re: Another act of terror
by MJagana@aol.com
9) Re: Dr Sulayman Nyang
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
10) Re: Dr Sulayman Nyang
by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
11) Re: Liberia on the US
by MJagana@aol.com
12) Re: Another act of terror
by MJagana@aol.com
13) Re: It's the economy, Narr
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
14) Re: color trouble..
by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com>
15) Re: Color Debate
by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com>
16) Re: Dr Sulayman Nyang
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
17) Re: Another act of terror
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
18) Re: Liberia on the US
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
19) Re: Another act of terror
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
20) Re: Dr Sulayman Nyang
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
21) Thanksgiving
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
22) Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
by Mbk007@aol.com
23) Re: Race and color
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
24) On the list again
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
25) Re: Liberia on the US
by MJagana@aol.com
26) Re: On the list again
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
27) Re: On the list again
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
28) Test
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
29) Fwd: Time to discard English names -- a moment of reflection
by "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
30) Re: Liberia on the US
by globexinc@erols.com
31)
by "Jobst Mnderlein" <joppl@hotmail.com>
32) Dr. Nyang
by SANG1220@aol.com
33) Jammeh's Wealth
by Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
34) Re:
by Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
35) ZONE II IN THE GAMBIA
by "Pa-Mambuna O. Bojang" <paomar@iglou.com>
36) Re:
by "Alpha Robinson" <garob1@cip.hx.uni-paderborn.de>
37) Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
38) Re: ZONE II IN THE GAMBIA
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
39) Re: ZONE II IN THE GAMBIA
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
40) Dr. Sulayman Nyang
by Gunjur@aol.com
41) RE: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com>
42) Re: Fwd: Time to discard English names -- a moment of reflection
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
43) Re: Thanksgiving
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
44) Re: Liberia on the US
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
45) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
46) Hermeneutics of STOP sign (fwd)
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
47) Humor: Any lawyers out there?
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
48) Re: Thanksgiving
by globexinc@erols.com
49) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by globexinc@erols.com
50) Cabral Cup II in the Gambia
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
51) FYI: FELLOWSHIP, African Development Dissertation Workshop (fwd)
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
52) OBITUARY: Malawi's Kamuzu Banda
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
53) Graduate Students Needed (fwd)
by "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
54) Re: Jammeh's Wealth
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
55) A Nigerian Prodigy
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
56) Re: Cabral Cup II in the Gambia
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
57) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
58) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
59) Re: New member
by "kebba trawally" <kaktra@hotmail.com>
60) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
61) introduction
by "sarjo marenah" <smarenah@hotmail.com>
62) Survey
by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
63) Re: Survey
by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
64) Re: Liberia on the US
by MJagana <MJagana@aol.com>
65) Re: Survey
by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
66) Re: Brief introduction
by "nari@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
67) Re: Cabral Cup II in the Gambia
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
68) Re: OBITUARY: Malawi's Kamuzu Banda
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
69) Re: Survey
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
70) Re: Liberia on the US
by Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
71) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
72) Re: OBITUARY: Malawi's Kamuzu Banda
by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
73) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
74) Re: Survey
by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
75) RE: Cabral Cup II in the Gambia
by amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
76) DELISTING
by "narb@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
77) Please change my adress
by "Theodor Stenevang" <stenevang@hotmail.com>
78) Please change my adress
by "Theodor Stenevang" <stenevang@hotmail.com>
79) Subscription
by BAKSAWA@aol.com
80) Zone II Tourney - All roads lead to Independence Stadium
by "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
81) New member
by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
82) re: zone II commentary from the arm chair
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
83) re: zone II commentary from the arm chair
by "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
84) Re: Survey
by MJagana@aol.com
85) re: zone II commentary from the arm chair
by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
86) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
87) Re: Winnie Madikzela Mandela
by mmjeng@image.dk
88)
by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
89) Fwd: Questions of Real Legal Status of African Sla
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
90) New Members
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
91) Re: Zone II Tourney - All roads lead to Independence Stadium
by "Pa-Mambuna O. Bojang" <paomar@iglou.com>
92) Zone II Tourney - 2nd day
by "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
93) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by YULBSORE@aol.com
94) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by YULBSORE@aol.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 10:35:29 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <19971123093632.AAC56958@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Greetings,
Sarjo Marenah, Joseph Jassey, Michael Thomas and Sambujang Kouyateh
have all been added to the list. We welcome them to Gambia-l and look
forward to their contributions.

You can send a brief introduction.
Our address is: gambia-l@u.washington.edu

regards
Momodou Camara

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 11:11:47 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Subscription
Message-ID: <34787FF3.210C@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi List Managers!
Marie Gillen has still not received any mail. It is however my fault
because I forgot a dot in the e-mail address I posted earlier. Please
resubscribe her. Her address is:

marie.gillen@swipnet.se

Thanks.
Buharry.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 19:17:33 -0500 (EST)
From: MJawara@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: List Traffic - Deja vu
Message-ID: <971123191732_-87525062@mrin39>

Any one of the following List officials can subscribe a new member.

List Managers

Tony Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Abdou Touray at137@columbia.edu
Dr. Katim Touray **

Subscription Managers
Amadou Janneh ASJanneh@aol.com
Sarian Loum Sarian@osmosys.incog.com
Sarian.loum@eng.sun.com
Momodou Camara Momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk
Latjor Ndow ***

** I don't have Dr. Touray's address.
*** Its my understanding that Latjor is currently unsubscribed.
Hopefully, members will direct subscription requests to any one of the above
and not thru. the List.

Musa.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:15:36 EST
From: "BOJANG,BUBA" <BBOJANG@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: new member subscription
Message-ID: <24NOV97.17560859.0171.MUSIC@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>

Hello managers,
about a month ago, I requested a membership subscription of a friend
who has not up to today receive any acceptance.
Please do try and subscribe him as soon as possible. He is Famara Demba
his address: f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net
Thanks Buba Bada Bojang






------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:25:10 -0000
From: "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Race and color
Message-ID: <B0000018650@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCF917.0FB1B600"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Archibald H. R. Graham" <archibald.graham@commit.gm>
via Commit


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BCF917.0FB1B600
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear L-ers

I have followed with great interest for some time now your recent dicussion
on the above subject.

As a follow up on the matter at hand, I did some research on it and found
out an interesting article in the August 22 1993 Issue of the Awake
magazine on this subject under the heading "Why is race such an issue".

I thought it might also be of interest to some of the List's member, to
that end I have attached pages 5 to 8 of the article (as a Windows Write
3.0 document) for any who might be interested.

Thanks for the time and space on the List

Archi

------=_NextPart_000_01BCF917.0FB1B600
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="race.wri"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Description: race.wri (Write Document)
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="race.wri"

*** g93 8/22 5-8 Why is Race Such an Issue? ***Why is Race Such an =
Issue?
EVER since the beginning of recorded history, the idea of =93them=94 and =
=93us=94 has dominated people=92s thinking. Many have convinced =
themselves that they are the only normal people with the right ways of =
doing everything. This is what scientists call ethnocentrism, the idea =
that one=92s own people and ways are the only ones that count.
The ancient Greeks, for example, did not think much of the =
=93barbarians,=94 a term they applied to anyone not Greek. The word =
=93barbarian=94 developed from the way that the foreign tongues sounded =
to Greek ears, like a lot of unintelligible =93bar-bar.=94 The Egyptians =
before and the Romans after also felt superior to peoples other than =
themselves.
For centuries the Chinese called their country Zhong Guo, or the Middle =
Kingdom, because they were convinced that China was the center of the =
world if not of the universe. Later, when European missionaries with red =
hair, green eyes, and ruddy complexion came to China, the Chinese =
branded them =93foreign devils.=94 Likewise, when Orientals first showed =
up in Europe and North America, their slanted eyes and what were =
considered strange customs made them easy targets for ridicule and =
suspicion.
Yet, there is a significant fact to consider, as the book The Kinds of =
Mankind says: =93To believe in one=92s [racial] superiority is one =
thing; to attempt to prove it, by using the findings of science, is =
something else.=94 Efforts to prove that one race is superior to another =
are relatively new. Anthropologist Ashley Montagu wrote that =93the =
conception that there are natural or biological races of mankind which =
differ from one another mentally as well as physically is an idea which =
was not developed until the latter part of the eighteenth century.=94
Why did the issue of racial superiority become so prominent during the =
18th and 19th centuries?
Slave Trade and Race
A major reason is that the profitable slave trade had by then reached =
its apex, and hundreds of thousands of Africans were being taken by =
force and pressed into slavery in Europe and the Americas. Often =
families were broken up, with men, women, and children being sent to =
different parts of the world, never to see one another again. How could =
slave traders and slave owners, most of whom claimed to be Christian, =
defend such inhuman acts?
By propagating the view that black Africans were naturally inferior. =
=93I am apt to suspect all negroes, and in general all other species of =
men to be naturally inferior to the white,=94 wrote 18th-century =
Scottish philosopher David Hume. In fact, Hume claimed that one could =
find =93no ingenious manufactures amongst [Negroes], no arts, no =
sciences.=94
However, such claims were wrong. The World Book Encyclopedia (1973) =
noted: =93Highly developed Negro kingdoms existed in various parts of =
Africa hundreds of years ago. . . . Between 1200 and 1600, a =
Negro-Arabic university flourished at Timbuktu in West Africa and became =
famous throughout Spain, North Africa, and the Middle East.=94 =
Nevertheless, those involved in the slave trade were quick to adopt the =
view of philosophers such as Hume that blacks were a race inferior to =
whites, indeed, even subhuman.
Religion and Race
Slave traders got considerable support for their racist views from =
religious leaders. As early as the 1450=92s, the edicts of Roman =
Catholic popes sanctioned the subjugation and enslavement of =
=93pagans=94 and =93infidels=94 so that their =93souls=94 might be saved =
for =93God=92s Kingdom.=94 Having received the blessing of the church, =
early European explorers and slave traders felt no qualms about their =
brutal treatment of native peoples.
=93In the 1760s, as for many decades to come, black slavery was =
sanctioned by Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Reformed =
churchmen and theologians,=94 says the book Slavery and Human Progress. =
=93No modern church or sect had sought to discourage its members from =
owning or even trafficking in black slaves.=94
Although some of the churches talked about universal Christian =
brotherhood, they also promoted teachings that intensified the racial =
controversy. For example, Encyclopaedia Judaica states that =93it was =
only after lengthy struggles and theological discussions that the =
Spaniards recognized the native races they found in America as men =
endowed with souls.=94
The implication was that so long as the =93souls=94 of the people of =
such native races were =93saved=94 by being converted to Christianity, =
it was unimportant how they were treated physically. And when it came to =
the situation of blacks, many religious leaders argued that they were =
cursed by God anyway. Scriptures were misapplied to try to prove this. =
Clergymen Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, in their =
Bible commentary, assert: =93Cursed be Canaan [Genesis 9:25]=97this doom =
has been fulfilled in the destruction of the Canaanites=97in the =
degradation of Egypt, and the slavery of the Africans, the descendants =
of Ham.=94=97Commentary, Critical and Explanatory, on the Whole Bible.
The teaching that the forefather of the black race was cursed is simply =
not taught in the Bible. The truth is, the black race descended from =
Cush, not Canaan. In the 18th century, John Woolman argued that using =
this Biblical curse to justify the enslaving of blacks, depriving them =
of their natural rights, =93is a supposition too gross to be admitted =
into the mind of any person who sincerely desires to be governed by =
solid principles.=94
Pseudoscience and Race
Pseudoscience also added its voice in an effort to support the theory =
that blacks are an inferior race. The book Essay on the Inequality of =
Races, by the 19th-century French writer Joseph de Gobineau, laid the =
groundwork for many such works to follow. In it, Gobineau divided =
mankind into three separate races in descending order of excellence: =
white, yellow, and black. He claimed that the unique qualities of each =
race were carried in the blood and that thus any mixing through =
intermarriage would result in degradation and loss of the superior =
qualities.
Gobineau argued that once there existed a pure race of white, tall, =
blond-haired, blue-eyed people whom he called Aryans. It was the Aryans, =
he argued, who introduced civilization and Sanskrit to India, and it was =
the Aryans who established the civilizations of ancient Greece and Rome. =
But through intermarriage with the inferior local people, these =
once-glorious civilizations were lost, along with the genius and fine =
qualities of the Aryan race. The nearest people to pure Aryan still =
remaining, asserted Gobineau, were to be found in northern Europe, =
namely, among the Nordic and, by extension, the Germanic peoples.
Gobineau=92s basic ideas=97the three-race division, the blood lineage, =
the Aryan race=97had no scientific foundation whatsoever, and they are =
completely discredited by today=92s scientific community. Nonetheless, =
they were quickly picked up by others. Among them was an Englishman, =
Houston Stewart Chamberlain, who was so enamored with Gobineau=92s ideas =
that he took up residence in Germany and championed the cause that only =
through the Germans was there hope of preserving the purity of the Aryan =
race. Needless to say, Chamberlain=92s writings became widely read in =
Germany, and the outcome was ugly.
Ugly Outcome of Racism
In his book Mein Kampf (My Struggle), Adolf Hitler asserted that the =
German race was the Aryan superrace that was destined to rule the world. =
Hitler felt that the Jews, who he said were responsible for sabotaging =
the German economy, were an obstacle to this glorious destiny. Thus =
followed the extermination of Jews and other minorities of Europe, which =
was indisputably one of the darkest chapters of human history. This was =
the disastrous outcome of racist ideas, including those of Gobineau and =
Chamberlain.
Such ugliness was not limited to Europe, however. Across the ocean in =
the so-called new world, the same sort of unfounded ideas brought untold =
suffering to generations of innocent people. Although African slaves =
were finally freed in the United States after the Civil War, laws were =
passed in many states prohibiting blacks from having many of the =
privileges that other citizens enjoyed. Why? White citizens thought that =
the black race did not have the intellectual capacity to participate in =
civic duties and government.
Just how deeply such racial feelings were entrenched is illustrated by a =
case involving an antimiscegenation law. This law prohibited marriages =
between blacks and whites. In convicting a couple who broke this law, a =
judge said: =93Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, =
Malay and red, and He placed them on separate continents, and but for =
the interference with His arrangement there would be no cause for such =
marriages.=94
The judge said this, not in the 19th century and not in a backward area, =
but in 1958=97and not more than 60 miles [100 km] from the U.S. Capitol! =
Indeed, it was not until 1967 that the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated =
all laws against interracial marriages.
Such discriminatory laws=97as well as segregation in schools, churches, =
and other public institutions and discrimination in employment and =
housing=97led to the civil unrest, protests, and violence that have =
become the realities of life in the United States and many other places. =
Destruction of life and property aside, the anguish, hatred, and =
personal indignities and sufferings that have resulted can only be =
regarded as the shame and disgrace of a so-called civilized society.
Thus, racism has become one of the most divisive forces afflicting human =
society. Surely, it behooves all of us to search our own hearts, asking =
ourselves: Do I reject any teachings that proclaim one race to be =
superior to another? Have I sought to rid myself of any possible =
residual feelings of racial superiority?
It is also appropriate that we ask: What hope is there that racial bias =
and tension, so rampant today, can ever be eradicated? Can people of =
different nationalities, languages, and customs live together in peace




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:43:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: new member subscription
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9711241543.2417.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: 3Wlmrw0tpnL4e+KJd/e3VQ==

All,

Famara Demba and Marie Gillen are subscribed to gambia-l. Welcome aboard
and please send in your intros to the list.

sarian

> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:15:36 EST
> From: "BOJANG,BUBA" <BBOJANG@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: new member subscription
> X-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Hello managers,
> about a month ago, I requested a membership subscription of a friend
> who has not up to today receive any acceptance.
> Please do try and subscribe him as soon as possible. He is Famara Demba
> his address: f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net
> Thanks Buba Bada Bojang
>
>
>
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:51:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Dr Sulayman Nyang
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971124163727.20149C-100000@saul7.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



Gambia-l,

I am happy and proud to announce the return of Dr Sulayman Nyang, fellow
St Augustine's alumnus and distinguish professor to The Bantaba. As many
of you remembered, Dr Nyang used to provide us with educational and
insightful contributions.
He was away at The University of Hartford where he served as The
Henry Luce Forum Visiting Professor of Abrahamic Religions. This chair was
created to foster interfaith dialogue between Jews, Christians and Muslims
where he was the first occupant of this postion. This is something that
Gambians/friends of The Gambia should be proud of to have one of its sons
rise to such a level of academic prominence in The United States.
Dr Nyang, congratulations and welcome aboard once again.

Thanks
Tony Loum



*******************************************************************************
*******************************************************************************

Anthony W Loum 206-543-4360 Voice
Supervisor, Foster Business Libary 206-616-6430 Fax
University of Washington tloum@u.washington.edu
Box 353224
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200

*******************************************************************************
*******************************************************************************




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:06:54 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <971124210654_1105879435@mrin84.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-11-21 01:25:23 EST, you write:

<< I have three questions for you....you may wanna respond to them or not
at all. BTW, I am not trying to provoke you...some people think I am
notorious in that regard. I'll not try to ridicule you either should you
respond. It will help me a lot in contributing to this thread if you
answer the questions below:

1. Do you believe that all arabs are muslim??

2. Do you believe that all Egyptians are arabs??

3. What is/are the reason(s) behind such acts af terror??
>>


Dear Jai,

I believe that no one can provoke me. I very well respect people to speak
their mind, I do not care what people think about me. There is only one
person that can provoke me, THAT IS ME, MYSELF AND I.

There are Jewish Arabs ( a small minority in the middle east), Christian
Arabs ( I have a personal friend from this class, we went to school together
in Cambridge) and finally there are Muslim Arabs.

All Eygptians are not Arabs.

The only way I or you for that matter can know what is the reason behind such
acts of terror is to talk to the people who are behind such acts. Or those
who participated in such acts.

Another way of knowing the reason is to take the subjective view of the
media.


Peace to you

MOMODOU JAGANA

THE MIND IS AN ENDANGERED SPECIES.
PLEASE KEEP IT ALIVE.
READ A BOOK.

(TJF)




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 06:12:18 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Dr Sulayman Nyang
Message-ID: <01bcf950$21f167a0$ec2185c2@q-tel.qatar.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mr.Loume,
I am both happy and excited by the twin news of the
Professor's new job and return to our lovely Bantaba.

Prof.,you are most welcomed and we are very honoured to have you back!

Regards Bassss!
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Loum <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 9:47 AM
Subject: Dr Sulayman Nyang


>
>
>Gambia-l,
>
>I am happy and proud to announce the return of Dr Sulayman Nyang, fellow
>St Augustine's alumnus and distinguish professor to The Bantaba. As many
>of you remembered, Dr Nyang used to provide us with educational and
>insightful contributions.
> He was away at The University of Hartford where he served as The
>Henry Luce Forum Visiting Professor of Abrahamic Religions. This chair was
>created to foster interfaith dialogue between Jews, Christians and Muslims
>where he was the first occupant of this postion. This is something that
>Gambians/friends of The Gambia should be proud of to have one of its sons
>rise to such a level of academic prominence in The United States.
> Dr Nyang, congratulations and welcome aboard once again.
>
> Thanks
> Tony Loum
>
>
>
>***************************************************************************
****
>***************************************************************************
****
>
> Anthony W Loum 206-543-4360 Voice
> Supervisor, Foster Business Libary 206-616-6430 Fax
> University of Washington tloum@u.washington.edu
> Box 353224
> Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
>
>***************************************************************************
****
>***************************************************************************
****
>
>
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:18:32 -0500 (EST)
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Dr Sulayman Nyang
Message-ID: <199711250318.WAA04655@oak.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text

Welcome back Dr Nyang.

Malanding Jaiteh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:43:23 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Liberia on the US
Message-ID: <971124224322_2106179893@mrin46.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-11-19 23:50:00 EST, you write:

<< I have also wondered why "no US president had made a state visit to
Africa
>since 1978."

I thought Hillary just returned from a trip to Uganda and some other
countries in eastern and sounthern Africa(*grin*) :-)

Cheerio, >>

I BELEIEVE HILLARY IS THE WIFE OF THE PRESIDENT , NOT THE PRESIDENT.

MOMODOU J

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:06:00 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <971124230559_-1974288957@mrin47>

In a message dated 97-11-21 18:59:07 EST, you write:

<< MR MOMODOU.
THAT IS NOT CALLED KILLING.
THAT IS CALLED SELFDEFENCE, AND IS (SHOULD BE) DECIDED BY
THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(I hope some understand my understatement by overstating with
Cap.letters...)
>>
Dear Trostien,,

WHO MAKES THE LAW ? PEOPLE

MOMODOU J


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 02:04:39 -0000
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: It's the economy, Narr
Message-ID: <B0000018735@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit


Jorn,
I can only venture some few reasons why the Dalasi has remained stable..you
realise that 80-90% imports to The Gambia are essentials and foodstuff and
as times get harder, the purchasing power of the average Gambian drops, as
does the demand for forex..foreign exchange, lower demand and adequate
supply due mainly to Tourism and a very limited extent remittances from
Gambians abroad, be they professionals or boys in Germany and Swiss, this
is why despite trade sanctions and lower exports ..agriculture wise, the
dalasi has remained quite relatively stable..
just a perspective
pmj

----------



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:36:34 -0500
From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: color trouble..
Message-ID: <347A55D1.770B2E5E@mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Good day Mr. Torstein and all other Gambia-lers,

It is difficult returning to the Bantaba in order to respond to lengthy issues, after dealing all day
with the heavy workload provided by two jobs, and family life. I think that sometimes the energy of
discussion often generates more heat than light. In such a context, it is often pointless to carry a
debate on certain issues beyond some specific point, because the debate tends to offer less and less in
terms of information, and substantive arguments, while providing the fodder for more and more
unnecessary, sometimes entertaining, (almost always hurtful) incendiary remarks. Since it is not my
intention to respond in the latter fashion, I offer this response and promise to offer few if any more
responses on this issue (in spite of the very real threat by my brother Mr. Amadou Kabir Njie, to
withhold from me his forgiveness - in this lifetime!!!), as the responses may be less productive than
hoped.

In this light, I think we may agree to disagree on the issue at hand, however we have, hopefully,
gained a clearer understanding of each other's position. By the way, who has gone for the ataya?
>
>tgr@commit.gm wrote:

> >> I have no statistics to prove you otherwise, but the little I have heard from the US
> >> is that a majority of dark skinned people are actually killed/attacked by other
> >> dark skinned people?! Also there seems to be certain areas in the US where a person
> >>with a light complexion really, really should not go?!
>
> I agree with you on the first point that "black on black" crime is a little to the side of the
> "white vs.black" issue.
> As you say, violence/crime general and violence/crime colorbased is two different things.
> I read Mr. Njie response in the first sense, and thus responded accordingly. What I was
> thinking of
> (in the general sense)
> was that people are people (good and bad) regardless of color.

> I do not fully comprehend how you can conclude that my arguments suggest a racist
> notion.
> Here I think you are sliding a little. "Black on black" crime is happening, "White on black"
> crime
> is happening, and
> I suggest that perhaps "black on white" crime is emerging a few places. Just because I am
> writing
> that there is crimes
> happening between "black and black" etc., does not imply that ALL "Black" (or ALL
> "white" for that
> matter)
> are "inherently violent and evil" (your quote). It simply means that humans are capable of
> anything,
> bad and good, "black&white".
>
> As I wrote before, I have no statistics to support my claim,

Yes, there are good and bad in numerous categories of people. I think we are on the same page with
that statement. However, your lack of stats to support your claim, is precisely my point. What was
the basis of your allegation? If you had no statistics, were there any anecdotal material you could
cite? In the absence of either statistics or anecdotes, then how could you make your question/emphatic
statements (as characterized by your question mark/exclamation point) or "claim" (your term). This is
a point I will briefly touch upon later.

> What do you think, is there no difference if a "white guy" walks down a "downtown"
> Harlem street
> or a "Black guy" does the same?!
> Just asking, never been there, so I don't know.
> Am I a racist when I ask a single question about some single areas in the US?! I never
> said it is a
> fact, and I cannot
> be asked to make a disclaimer on any question to avoid being a "racist provoker"!?!
>
No, it certainly is not racist to ask such questions, however your "question" appeared rhetorical,
moreover the question was undeniably loaded with innuendo, insinuation, and implication, although I can
imagine a denial is being formulated as you read this. As quiered above what was the basis of your
allegation/question? It is this type of innuendo for which the originator denies any responsibility
for its implication, that pepper the literature and mass media and give strength to racist positions.
This is what I am pointing out, as I have seen this type of insinuation over and over again across the
past few decades in "respectable media". It is effective, especially when left unchallenged.


> If you look in the history books, all the people that achieves something actually has names
> and
> stories behind them.
> They are idividuals, not just "whites" (or "blacks"). This is what makes them interesting as
> sportsmen/women etc.
> Today you have people of any "color" making achievements in sports etc. and everybody
> cheers the
> achiever, being it
> a American, Englishman, Chinese or whatever. What makes them interesting is their talent,
> their
> ability and the
> story behind their success, NOT the color.
> This is how it should be if you ask me. For me there is nothing like "they" and "us" in the
> sense
> of color. I believe "color" is a
> unhealty separation of people, looked upon in any context, historically or otherwise.
>
All things being equal, I would say that you are absolutely correct. Philosophically, in an idyllic,
sanitized world, I believe your stance is correct! However, I live in the world that is, rather than
in a utopia. The issue of color gives further context to achievement and is not coincidental or
insignificant as you imply. Your attempt to bleach history of its color context is untenable, simply
because color has been significant in numerous historical circumstances.
>
> Everything revolves around power if you ask me. Racism as far as I have learnt is a mix of
> fear,
> lack of knowledge,
> collective behaviour as you say, peoples tendency to always group things, conservatism
> etc.
> Since we are visually dependent creatures, "black" and "white" is a convenient but
> erranous way to
> group people.
>
I will not argue about your essentializing power; everyone has a perspective concerning the
underpinnings of society - I choose to see these perspectives as neither right nor wrong, just as
other perspectives, based upon your own experiences, intellect, and philosophical bent. However, in
order to negotiate life itself, as a sentient being, social categories have to be constructed to make
sense out of our experiences. All of these categories are imperfect, simply because they are all
conceptual frames, however they are still useful. Thus, all grouping, which you talk about has its
limitations, but nonetheless is useful and even essential.

> > But this is not the sixties now, I would mildly
> suggest that the
> situation is different (better?!) now in some parts of the world.

> I will stand together with you in any confrontation you would ever experience regarding
> racism.
> You are wrong when you believe I am feeling threatened, I am just asking for a critical
> approach to
> the use
> of "color".
>
Yes, I have made reference to the sixties (the thirties, the forties, the fifties, and the seventies -
i.e., the PAST, a.k.a. HISTORY) and things are undeniably better on some fronts, because of the
struggle waged by Black people (and yes, as you suggest by others in concert with Black people).
However, some of these changes, may be more cosmetic than substantive in nature, while many of the
underlying sympathies and sentiments which undergird racism remain the same. Rodney King is not a
phenomenon of the sixties, nor is color insignificant to that situation. The American C.I.A.'s
connection to drugs and the Black community of California, is not of the sixties; race is not
incidental to this situation either. There are far too many circumstances which one could relate,
which demonstrate time without number that race (or color, as you prefer) is not incidental to
historical process and social forces. As mentioned previously, there is a historical context to
everything. There is a conjunction between the past and the present, and although we are not slaves to
history, it certainly does have a heavy impact upon the present and the future.


> All I am saying is that to use the two "colors" "white" and "black" to separate people, is a
> generalisation
> of people that creates polarization and divides humans into "us" and "them" regardless of
> who is
> doing it,
> "white","black","brown,"red","yellow","gray" etc.........(getting tired of this colorfocusing :-(
> )
>
Mr Torstein, doesn't categorization by: nationality; gender; region; age; religion; or a host of other
characteristics "create polarizations and divide humans into us' and them' "? Yet, you have not
registered your disapproval of these categories for some unknown reason. In fact, throughout your
writings, I am hard pressed to discern a reason for your reluctance to accept color as a category of
human existence while simultaneously being content with solidarity based on nationality, religion, or
whatever. If you would be so kind as to explain the differences in these categories, so that I might
have a greater understanding on your position relative to these points, it would go a long way in my
education of that position.

>
> Is this
> colorstruggle
> really
> what we want? "White" against "Black" on the racefield, economically, politically etc.?
> "Black" identity in my opinion should be unecessary just as "White" identity is.
> It is maybe theoretically today, but could be the thing to aim at.
>
I am not clear what the last sentence, you wrote, means but I think I understand the thrust of your
overall statement. The color struggle, whether or not you approve, is a reality. It will not go away
by ignoring it or wishing it away. This is not to say that every White person in the world is seeking
to oppress every Black person, however there are enough people who have this on their agenda. And this
struggle occurs in significant number on many fronts. This describes the machinations of institutional
racism which operates structurally behind the scenes, rather than on the conscious individual, level.
In this context, a Black identity is very, very necessary.

>
>>You keep confusing recognition, with evaluation, which are not the same.
>
> Well, you seem to be hung up on details.
> Conserning Evaluation & recognition.
> Toubab can be a evaluation if you think about it;
> - I am a foreigner,
> - I have a lot of money, (to give away) ("toubab, give me some Dalasi...")
> - I can help them in any way they need,
> - I am nice,
> - I can take them to Europe, etc.
> Just to be a little Nitty Gritty back.
>
> The difference between the shaping of people and the shaping of a mountain is that people
> can chose
> to
> change or "reshape" it self based on intelligence and knowledge. That is what gives me
> hope.
>
"The devil is in the details," Mr Torstein. People have the ability to reshape themselves indeed,
however we cannot completely escape our individual or collective history. In fact, history is one of
the tools used to reshape that future. The Spanish born philosopher, George Santayana once said,
"Those who do not remember the past, are condemned to relive it." Mr. Torstein, there are far too many
of us who have little or no memory of the past, while there are some aspects of the past which I loathe
to relive.

A Black solidarity, with an accurate sense of history and a viable strategy to address current
realities, would preclude us from reliving the most painful and destructive periods of our past. As
the Jewish community states day-in, day-out "Never again!" (Do you criticize Jewish solidarity on the
basis of their experiences?)

>>My point is, that whereas you are prepared to deny the
> obvious, I am
> NOT,
> > because it is not inherently value laden. Different doesn't necessarily mean better; it
> doesn't
> > necessarily mean worse. It simply means DIFFERENT.
>
> You have a good point here, that there can be grouping based on color, without any
> negative
> components
> attached to it..but do you believe it yourself?!
>
Sure, and why not?? This is an interesting turn of events (actually I find it incredible), as I have
been reading the numerous posts generated by this list. Curiously, one of the posts is a response you
made to Chakys concerning the reference to color in your own land. The exchange went as follows:

>>This man who comes from a country where black people are still referred
>>to as "neger" and in whose language everything bad is black (svart)
>>should either put up or shut up.

>-Actually, as far as I know, the word "neger" is a word coming from the word
>"negro" meaning Black in Spanish (Now where did I here the word Black used >before?!? And from whom
>?!?).
>My understanding is that it is used as a polite word (esp.among older people) for
>describing a person of dark skincolor.
>It is rather clumsily I admit considering that the word has negative historical use,
>but mostly it is not used for anything else than description.

In this response you wasted no time in defending the use of a color term as being a "polite word" How
do you reconcile your statement to Chakys, and the above rhetorical question directed to me? Is it
that a reference to color can be muted or polite in your language, but cannot be in any other
language? This is not to mention that there is a difference between the connotation of "negro" or
"black" in Spanish, and another derivative of the same word, the infamous "n - - - - r" word. "Negro"
in Spanish is value neutral, as far as I know, although the other derivative is not. "Negrita" is a
term of endearment in Spanish, "n - - - - r" in context is not! Is this an issue of trying to have it
both ways?

> But maybe I have had some positive influence on you, regarding color and
> how to
> look at it?!
>
I already have positive ideas of color and know very well how to look at it.

> Re: Caps lock.
> I was not the one using capital letters in the mail.
> I don't know how long you have been on e-mail/Internet but it is
> actually considered rude and "shouting" as e-mail ethics go.
>
> No lecturing of course, just a tip.
>
Mr. Torstein, thank you for the reminder (or tip as you put it) on e-mail etiquette (or ethics as you
put it). Caps can be used as emphasis to indicate where one would either underline, italics, or bold a
selection of text, as there are a few of the older mail readers which cannot handle this underline,
italics or bold in the formatting. Whatever the case, if you could point out in my message to you
where I SHOUTED (either a sentence, a phrase, or a word) which would warrant this "tip," I would be
most grateful. Thank you again.

Have a good and prosperous day.

M W Payne


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:37:22 -0500
From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Color Debate
Message-ID: <347A5602.EE99C0D8@mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Good day Ms. Munzel and other Gambia-lers,

I am happy to meet you at the Bantaba.
>
>Laura Munzel wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Payne,
>
> You said:
> ...the idea of racism revolves around the issue of power and how that
power
> influences collective behavior. Blacks have never been in such
positions of power to
> influence collective behavior...
>
> You say that black people can't be racist because they can't
influence collective behavior,
> and white people can be racist because they can affect collective
behavior. What's ironic
> is that although you base your view on historical and political
context, there is still a
> determinism expressed based solely on race. Isn't it very possible
that a wealthy black
> individual would have more influence on collective behavior than poor
white trash?
> Economic status makes a difference, I think - not just race.
>
Ms. Munzel, I have no problem with the idea that economics is an
integral part of this equation. However, I am curious to find out if
you are saying that a Black person (male or female) with money (or
economic status), is in an equal position to influence events as a White
male with money? Are there equal institutional supports for both sets
of individuals? Furthermore, I see no reason to use the type of racial
epithets that you do, Ms. Munzel. To essentialize economic status, I
think leads us to the make the same mistakes that Marx made in his often
brilliant analysis, when he ignored both gender and race.

> You might respond that the example given of a black man/woman who is
wealthy, or a
> black man/woman who is in a position of power is the exception rather
than the rule. You
> mention that: ...Blacks have never been in similar positions of
power on a global
> basis. Is there such a thing of being in power on a global basis? I
would say there are
> more pockets of power which play out differently across different
contexts of economic
> status, social status, political status.
>
This is well put, but to deny that idea that power exists on a global
basis is, more than the word, interesting. In viewing recent events in
the Asian stock market and its repercussions on the west would give us
some indication that there are some global economic forces at work
here. Moreover, I find it interesting that in an institution such as
Columbia, which gave rise to a school of anthropologists during the
fifties and sixties, who talk about the new international division of
labor, and who could point to multi-national corporations, which have an
impact upon people across geo-political boundaries, could produce a
question like "Is there such a thing of being in power on a global
basis?" The answer to that question, depending upon your theoretical
orientation and breadth of understanding of such issues, in my
estimation, has to be "Yes!"

Do the managers of Shell Oil and similar corporations have power which
extend beyond national boundaries? Ask the widow of Ken Saro-Wiwa.

> In saying the above, there is no arguing the fact that we are all
carrying around the histories
> of our races. We are treated differentially based on our color.
People die because of
> their color. The affects on peoples' lives are very real.

> Basing a political position solely on race is limiting. First, it
stems from the same ideology
> which got us into this mess in the first place. Second, by viewing
race as the single
> significant factor in a political struggle, opportunities are missed
for alliances based on
> other determiners.
>
Ms. Munzel, do not think for a moment, that I am limiting race (or color
as Mr. Torstein would have it) as the single factor in a political
struggle (although, I do give it primacy as a "significant" factor).
Nor does this position preclude alliances based on anything else. What
I would say first and foremost, however, is that the basic platform
should revolve around the issue which formed the basis of the original
attack, and then coalitions should be formed with other groups only
AFTER having formed that initial primary solidarity.

That is my position Ms. Munzel.

Thank you and have a pleasant day.

M W Payne


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:06:35 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp2.erols.com
Subject: Re: Dr Sulayman Nyang
Message-ID: <347A951B.60B3@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A. Loum wrote:
>
> Gambia-l,
>
> I am happy and proud to announce the return of Dr Sulayman Nyang, fellow
> St Augustine's alumnus and distinguish professor to The Bantaba. As many
> of you remembered, Dr Nyang used to provide us with educational and
> insightful contributions.
> He was away at The University of Hartford where he served as The
> Henry Luce Forum Visiting Professor of Abrahamic Religions. This chair was
> created to foster interfaith dialogue between Jews, Christians and Muslims
> where he was the first occupant of this postion. This is something that
> Gambians/friends of The Gambia should be proud of to have one of its sons
> rise to such a level of academic prominence in The United States.
> Dr Nyang, congratulations and welcome aboard once again.
>
> Thanks
> Tony Loum
>
>
> *******************************************************************************
> *******************************************************************************
>
> Anthony W Loum 206-543-4360 Voice
> Supervisor, Foster Business Libary 206-616-6430 Fax
> University of Washington tloum@u.washington.edu
> Box 353224
> Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
>
> *******************************************************************************
> *******************************************************************************
> Welcome back Professor
Hope to see you soon
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:11:50 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp2.erols.com
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <347A9656.1D54@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MJagana@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-11-21 01:25:23 EST, you write:
>
> << I have three questions for you....you may wanna respond to them or not
> at all. BTW, I am not trying to provoke you...some people think I am
> notorious in that regard. I'll not try to ridicule you either should you
> respond. It will help me a lot in contributing to this thread if you
> answer the questions below:
>
> 1. Do you believe that all arabs are muslim??
>
> 2. Do you believe that all Egyptians are arabs??
>
> 3. What is/are the reason(s) behind such acts af terror??
> >>
>
> Dear Jai,
>
> I believe that no one can provoke me. I very well respect people to speak
> their mind, I do not care what people think about me. There is only one
> person that can provoke me, THAT IS ME, MYSELF AND I.
>
> There are Jewish Arabs ( a small minority in the middle east), Christian
> Arabs ( I have a personal friend from this class, we went to school together
> in Cambridge) and finally there are Muslim Arabs.
>
> All Eygptians are not Arabs.
>
> The only way I or you for that matter can know what is the reason behind such
> acts of terror is to talk to the people who are behind such acts. Or those
> who participated in such acts.
>
> Another way of knowing the reason is to take the subjective view of the
> media.
>
> Peace to you
>
> MOMODOU JAGANA
>
> THE MIND IS AN ENDANGERED SPECIES.
> PLEASE KEEP IT ALIVE.
> READ A BOOK.
>
> (TJF)Momodou
With all due respects, I think the sister was just trying to make a valid
point not provoking you. We have to look at both angles and your answer
to her questions bring light to the pertanent subject that raised this
issue in the first place --your blanket grouping of one group of people
(Arab/ Muslims) under the unjust classification of terrirists.
peace
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:14:01 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp2.erols.com
Subject: Re: Liberia on the US
Message-ID: <347A96D9.2B71@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MJagana@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-11-19 23:50:00 EST, you write:
>
> << I have also wondered why "no US president had made a state visit to
> Africa
> >since 1978."
>
> I thought Hillary just returned from a trip to Uganda and some other
> countries in eastern and sounthern Africa(*grin*) :-)
>
> Cheerio, >>
>
> I BELEIEVE HILLARY IS THE WIFE OF THE PRESIDENT , NOT THE PRESIDENT.
>
> MOMODOU J

Momodou Hillary represented the President of the USA during her last
visit to Africa. FYI

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:15:18 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp2.erols.com
Subject: Re: Another act of terror
Message-ID: <347A9726.5488@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MJagana@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-11-21 18:59:07 EST, you write:
>
> << MR MOMODOU.
> THAT IS NOT CALLED KILLING.
> THAT IS CALLED SELFDEFENCE, AND IS (SHOULD BE) DECIDED BY
> THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> (I hope some understand my understatement by overstating with
> Cap.letters...)
> >>
> Dear Trostien,,
>
> WHO MAKES THE LAW ? PEOPLE
>
> MOMODOU JWell said Trostein

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:24:59 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Dr Sulayman Nyang
Message-ID: <9711250624.AA29178@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Tony Loum, you wrote:
>
> Gambia-l,
>
> I am happy and proud to announce the return of Dr Sulayman Nyang, fellow
> St Augustine's alumnus and distinguish professor to The Bantaba. As many
> of you remembered, Dr Nyang used to provide us with educational and
> insightful contributions.
> Dr Nyang, congratulations and welcome aboard once again.
>
> Thanks
> Tony Loum


Brother Nyang,

What a pleasure to hear from you again!

After almost a year of silence, I guessed that you may have abandoned us
for good. It is indeed a pleasure to know that you are still around and
doing wonderfully well. I was so happy to read your email today.

I hope that once you finally settle down, you will briefly update us on
the assignments that you have been busily working on. For the benefit of
the new members of the list, I also think it would be wonderful if you
could reintroduce yourself, as many of them may have heard about you from
one source or the other. It's really nice to have you back, Doc!

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:48:55 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp1.erols.com
Subject: Thanksgiving
Message-ID: <347A9F07.7DA8@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hope you all have a nice and enjoyable turkey day
Does it not remind you of Harri -Tobaski or Easter Nan Buru celebration
of families and friends.
I suggest we get a Halal killed turkey (or you go to the farm and do it
yourself) and invite your closest Gambian neighbour or friend.
Let us join the celebration if we can afford it. Why not??
Dr Nyang any thoughts or opinion on this

Should we be part of it of not ?
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 03:25:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Mbk007@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Waiting to exhale.....NOT!!!!
Message-ID: <971125032536_413473522@mrin43.mail.aol.com>

Please say no more. Sister 'J' seems very angry and negative, and hopes she
realizes that a lot of us have been offended. I have always wondered why she
always has something negative to say regarding most of the postings she
replies to. A word of advice: please always try to be positive and nice to
people especially in this bantaba, for we will have to deal with each other
sooner or later. What people think of you now might hold for a long time, and
it's not too late to start getting along with the crowd.


Thanks
M.B.
Krubally.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 06:33:57 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Race and color
Message-ID: <01bcf952$f6579260$ec2185c2@q-tel.qatar.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Archi,
Thanks for the attachment and keep up the good work down there!

Regards Bassss!
-----Original Message-----
From: archibald.graham@commit.gm <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: Race and color


>Dear L-ers
>
>I have followed with great interest for some time now your recent dicussion
>on the above subject.
>
>As a follow up on the matter at hand, I did some research on it and found
>out an interesting article in the August 22 1993 Issue of the Awake
>magazine on this subject under the heading "Why is race such an issue".
>
>I thought it might also be of interest to some of the List's member, to
>that end I have attached pages 5 to 8 of the article (as a Windows Write
>3.0 document) for any who might be interested.
>
>Thanks for the time and space on the List
>
>Archi
>


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:24:48 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
To: "'Gambia-L'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: On the list again
Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F321903110115E@DKDIFS02>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCF99D.205B5750"

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------ =_NextPart_000_01BCF99D.205B5750
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Friends, nice to be back after one month of summer-holidays, of which
some 3 weeks was spend in The Gambia. M.B.Krubally is right. We must =
try
to treat one another as mutual "friends" on this gambia-list. I have =
met
some 6 persons, which I only knew from the gambia-list. And that was a
great experience. Meeting people who you only knew from the internet =
can
be a good experience for life. Thanks to all of you who found the time
to spend with me. I have a lot of piles waiting at my desk, so please
have patience to get my news from "home". Asbj=F8rn Nordam

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------ =_NextPart_000_01BCF99D.205B5750--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:05:41 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Liberia on the US
Message-ID: <971125070541_-487850939@mrin79>

In a message dated 97-11-25 01:33:35 EST, you write:

<< Momodou Hillary represented the President of the USA during her last
visit to Africa. FYI
>>
Dear Habib,

FYI, I very much know that, but there is a significant difference in the
language of diplomacy, for the president to personally visit Africa and to
be represented by the wife.

So FYI I am informed >.......take a chill pill

momodou J

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:11:47 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: On the list again
Message-ID: <9711251411.AA33692@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> Friends, nice to be back after one month of summer-holidays, of which
> some 3 weeks was spend in The Gambia. M.B.Krubally is right. We must =
> try
> to treat one another as mutual "friends" on this gambia-list. I have =
> met
> some 6 persons, which I only knew from the gambia-list. And that was a
> great experience. Meeting people who you only knew from the internet =
> can
> be a good experience for life. Thanks to all of you who found the time
> to spend with me. I have a lot of piles waiting at my desk, so please
> have patience to get my news from "home". Asbj=F8rn Nordam

Absjorn,

#####
# # ##### ###### ###### ##### # # # #### ####
# # # # # # # ## # # # #
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# # ##### # # # # # # # # ### #
# # # # # # # # # ## # # # #
##### # # ###### ###### # # # # #### ####


Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:39:00 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: On the list again
Message-ID: <01bcf9af$deccfba0$7e2385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Asbjorn!!
Welcome back! We are very glad to have you back ,and keep up
the good work down there.

Regards Bassss!
-----Original Message-----
From: Asbjrn Nordam <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: 25//1418 08:19
Subject: On the list again


Friends, nice to be back after one month of summer-holidays, of which
some 3 weeks was spend in The Gambia. M.B.Krubally is right. We must try
to treat one another as mutual "friends" on this gambia-list. I have met
some 6 persons, which I only knew from the gambia-list. And that was a
great experience. Meeting people who you only knew from the internet can
be a good experience for life. Thanks to all of you who found the time
to spend with me. I have a lot of piles waiting at my desk, so please
have patience to get my news from "home". Asbjrn Nordam



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:55:48 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Test
Message-ID: <9711251855.AA66098@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Pardon me...

This is just a test.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:37:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: jacka@einstein.franklin.edu, jackr@franklin.edu
Subject: Fwd: Time to discard English names -- a moment of reflection
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971125153616.46476426@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Gambia-l:

Here's one of those thought provoking articles that makes you take a moment
to reflect on it. REad on......>



>>Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:35:49 -0800
>>Reply-To: A Discussion of Sierra Leonean Issues
><LEONENET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>>From: Prince Dugba <pndugba@UCDAVIS.EDU>
>>Subject: Time to discard English names
>>To: LEONENET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>>
>>Forwarded. One of those thought-provoking articles you had like to
>share.
>>__________________________________________
>>Letter to a Kampala Friend:
>>Time to discard English names
>>The Monitor November 17, 1997
>>
>>By Dr. Muniini Mulera in Toronto
>>
>>Dear Tingasiga:
>>
>>Last month's news report that Madera Hospital in Soroti would be
>re-named
>>"Princess Diana," in tribute to the late Princess of Wales, brought a
>smile
>>to my face.
>>
>>I could just imagine the pride with which Soroti Municipality MP, Mike
>>Mukula, informed the peasants of Soroti, that their hospital would now
>have
>>a civilized Christian name.
>>
>>While Mukula was announcing the good news to his grateful constituents,
>Sir
>>John Woodward, an ex-colonial administrator, was returning to Uganda,
>where
>>he had not set foot since 1962.
>>
>>As he flew over Lake Victoria, Sir John's mind filled with great
>memories
>>of glorious exploits in the old protectorate, where he had made a
>career of
>>christianizing the natives and ridding them of pagan names like
>Muniini,
>>Onyango and Gidudu.
>>
>>He began to wonder what might have become of the civilized names his
>>predecessors had so lovingly given to Uganda's lakes, mountains, water
>>falls and national parks.
>>
>>Turning to the African passenger next to him, Sir John asked: "What do
>you
>>call this lake these days?"
>>
>>Looking somewhat surprised, the Mukiga man replied: "Lake Victoria, of
>>course!"
>>
>>"Didn't the natives call it Nnalubaale, or something like that?", the
>>Englishman continued.
>>
>>The Mukiga thought for a moment, wondering what was wrong with this
>muzungu.
>>
>>"Only the Luganda newsreader on Radio and TV refers to it by that name,
>>when he is talking about the weather. Otherwise everybody uses its
>proper
>>name of Lake Victoria."
>>
>>"Really?", Sir John said, as he sank back into his seat.
>>
>>After clearing immigration, the Englishman was driven to Lake Victoria
>>Windsor Hotel for refreshments and some rest, in preparation for a
>guided
>>tour of the country.
>>
>>At the hotel, Sir John was offered a breakfast menu which featured
>various
>>items with French and English names.
>>
>>Spying an item called "Continental Breakfast", he asked the waiter
>which
>>continent this referred to.
>>
>>"I don't quite sure but let me check, sir" the young man replied,
>before
>>scampering off to confer with the head waiter.
>>
>>Sensing an opportunity to impress the visitor, the head waiter walked
>over
>>to Sir John's table and proudly informed him that this breakfast was
>>straight from Europe.
>>
>>"Ah! But do you have an African continental breakfast?", the old man
>asked,
>>beginning to sound more proud of Africa than his hosts.
>>
>>"Not really. But sir, we have other foods you can choose from."
>>
>>After a hearty meal of a nameless breakfast of fresh fruit and juice,
>Sir
>>John hired a taxi to take him on a guided tour of Kampala, the city
>where
>>he had spent four decades earlier.
>>
>>The driver, who introduced himself as Nehemiah, was very delighted to
>be
>>asked to drive a European, and he indicated his pleasure with a wink
>and a
>>thumbs-up sign to his envious colleagues.
>>
>>"Do you have an African name?" Sir John inquired, as the car made its
>way
>>past the Botanical Gardens.
>>
>>"Yes sir. They call me Wagumbuluzi Kyaba Naky'Omusajja Kyawa Munne, but
>I
>>prefer Nehemiah. It says in the Bible that Nehemiah, son of Hachaliah,
>was
>>a great man."
>>
>>The Englishman made a grunting noise, obviously unimpressed by
>Nehemiah's
>>Biblical scholarship.
>>
>>As they entered Kampala, Sir John noted, that the Queen's Way and the
>>Queen's Clock Tower had survived the various battles for Kampala.
>>
>>They soon came upon Siad Barre Avenue, next to Parliament Buildings.
>>
>>Wasn't Siad Barre a nasty dictator somewhere in Africa?" Sir John
>asked,
>>adding: "I find it rather remarkable that Uganda's leaders drive along
>this
>>street everyday."
>>
>>Nehemiah remained silent. Turning onto De Winton Road, he pointed to
>The
>>Monitor's old office, which was located right across from Siad Barre
>Avenue.
>>
>>Sensing the irony, Sir John informed his driver that an independent
>>newspaper like The Monitor would never have lasted twenty four hours in
>>Siad Barre's Somalia.
>>
>>As they drove through Kampala and the tree-lined boulevards of
>Nakasero,
>>Kololo and Bugolobi, the conversation turned to politics.
>>
>>Nehemiah, a Muganda, proudly informed the visitor that President
>Museveni
>>had restored the dignity of the Baganda by giving them their king.
>>
>>The Kabaka, Sir John learned , was the repository of Buganda's culture
>and
>>traditions. Indeed he was officially known as a "Cultural Institution".
>>
>>"What are your Kabaka's names?", Sir John asked, confessing that he had
>not
>>kept up with developments in the colonies.
>>
>>"Our beloved Kabaka is Ronald Edward Frederick Muwenda Mutebi II, son
>of
>>Sir Edward Frederick Walugembe Mutesa II, grandson of Daudi Chwa, great
>>grandson of Kabaka Mwanga, whom your people exiled to Seychelles."
>>
>>There was a long silence. Sir John began to smile, realising the irony
>of
>>African "cultural institutions" carrying English names.
>>
>>"I never realised what we were doing to their minds," he whispered.
>>
>>When Nehemiah asked him what he meant by that, Sir John pretended not
>to
>>have heard the question.
>>
>>Sir John asked to be driven to Makerere University. The place was as
>>European as he had left it thirty five years earlier, save for the
>absence
>>of Europeans and Asians.
>>
>>The students and teachers preferred to be called by their civilized
>>Christian names.
>>
>>However, one middle-aged gentleman, who introduced himself as Professor
>>Engineer Dr. Alai Mokili, seemed to be one of the few who had rejected
>>European names, which he called slave names.
>>
>>"You see sir," the engineer explained, "one of the few sensible things
>that
>>the ex-dictator of Zaire did for his people was his attempt to get them
>to
>>take pride in African names. Mobutu's policy of "authenticity" which he
>>decreed in the early 70s, had transformed him from Joseph Desire to
>Mobutu
>>Sese Seko Koko Ngbendu Wa Zabanga, which, meant 'The Cock That Leaves
>No
>>Hen Unturned.'"
>>
>>"And did the Zaireans follow the cock's example?", Sir John asked.
>>
>>"Oh yes, they did," Mokili declared. "We began to hear of names like
>Kengo
>>wa Dondo, Kamanda wa Kamanda and Mbaliga Nzonga. That was when I gave
>up my
>>slave names of Christopher Columbus, much to my family's distress. My
>old
>>man said I had betrayed God."
>>
>>Sir John's face lit up with excitement. Finally, here was an African
>who
>>seemed to be interested in his cultural identity. There was hope after
>all.
>>
>>He invited the engineer to join him the following morning, on a journey
>to
>>the Mountains of the Moon and then to Kigezi, where he had served as
>>District Commissioner in the 1950s.
>>
>>Nehemiah agreed to be their chauffeur, having become a keen student of
>the
>>two gentlemen.
>>
>>"I will be very happy to take you anywhere, Sir. I want you to call me
>>Wagumbuluzi, and not Nehemiah any more sir."
>>
>>Sir John smiled, already feeling that the trip was bearing fruit.
>>
>>They set off before dawn, and arrived at Kasese's Hotel Margheritta in
>the
>>early afternoon.
>>
>>"Good Lord," Sir John moaned, "you have never changed the name of this
>>hotel?"
>>
>>"Oh, we should not change that name," Mokili replied. "You see, I do
>not
>>think we should change the names which you folks gave to buildings and
>>roads. Those were your creations, and so they should retain your
>names."
>>
>>Sir John and Wagumbuluzi looked puzzled.
>>
>>"But Professor," Wagumbuluzi started, "I thought you wanted African
>names?"
>>
>>The professor was smiling, just like he usually did whenever he had a
>>student cornered, trying to solve a mathematical puzzle.
>>
>>"You see," he said, "nobody should change names which others have given
>to
>>things. That is why we say it was very arrogant of the Europeans to
>rename
>>our great mountains with names like Elgon, Margheritta peak, Mt.
>Stanley,
>>and so on. Those mountains over there were known as Rwenjura (where it
>>rains a lot). The Europeans mispronounced them as Rwenzori, and got rid
>of
>>the great names which the Africans had given to each of the mountains
>>thousands of years ago. That was very arrogant."
>>
>>Mokili had given a lot of thought to this subject. He continued:
>>"Similarly, our great lakes were desecrated with names like Edward for
>Lake
>>Rwitanzigye, Victoria for Nnalubaale and so on. I do not even know what
>>Lakes Albert and George were called before the Europeans came."
>>
>>Wagumbuluzi was smiling. "You mean those things which Europeans created
>>should retain European names, and those which they found here should go
>>back to their African names?"
>>
>>The Professor leaned back, pleased that he had made intellectual
>connection
>>with the young man.
>>
>>"You see, Wagu, unless we reclaim our identity, we are going to
>disappear
>>as a race. We need to revert to those cultural symbols like proper
>African
>>names, which re-affirm our great heritage."
>>
>>The Professor then closed his eyes. He had been talking all day, and
>>feeling exhausted, he sank back in his seat and fell asleep.
>>
>>Wagumbuluzi suggested that they head for Kabale via Ntungamo. By the
>time
>>they got there, it was too dark to continue their journey to Kabale.
>>
>>"Is there a place we can stay in this town?", Sir John asked.
>>
>>Wagumbuluzi pulled up in front a small duka (kiosk)-type building.
>>
>>On it was written, in white paint, "HILTON HOTEL."
>>
>>"Good Lord," Sir John whispered, "a Hilton Hotel in Ntungamo!"
>>
>>He closed his eyes in prayer. "Lord Jesus, forgive Her Majesty Queen
>>Victoria, and her descendants, for the terrible things we did to these
>>people's minds."
>>
>>From the corner of his eye, Wagumbuluzi could see the Englishman
>reaching
>>for a handkerchief to wipe tears from his eyes.
>>______________________________________________________________
>>Prince Dugba
>>pndugba@ucdavis.edu
>>University of California, Davis.
>>
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>

-----------------------------------
N'Deye Marie N'Jie
Graduate Research Associate
The Ohio State University
Rm 260 Agricultural Engineering Bldg
590 Woody Hayes Drive
Columbus, OH 43210

Fax: (614)292-9448
Phone: (614) 688-3445 (W)
E-mail: njie.1@osu.edu


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:43:29 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Liberia on the US
Message-ID: <347B3871.3340@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

MJagana@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-11-25 01:33:35 EST, you write:
>
> << Momodou Hillary represented the President of the USA during her last
> visit to Africa. FYI
> >>
> Dear Habib,
>
> FYI, I very much know that, but there is a significant difference in the
> language of diplomacy, for the president to personally visit Africa and to
> be represented by the wife.
>
> So FYI I am informed >.......take a chill pill
>
> momodou J

Momodou
I like your style and language. !!
What is a chill pill and where can I get one ?.Since you know so much
about these wonder chill pills and probably tried them also,does it have
any after effects?? (laugh)
Moe, tell me how I can get the money pill. Please
Brother Habib
ps I hope you can take a joke! I enjoyed yours.

--
MZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:45:45 PST
From: "Jobst Mnderlein" <joppl@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <19971125214545.19007.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

1)Is there anyone on the list who understands/reads German? I have
finished part of my Diploma-thesis on "Civil society in the Gambia.
Democratisation and societal Organisation in the current transformation
processes" (written in German - I'm sorry) and would love to get some
feed back. Anyone who is interested please let me know.

2)Analysing quite a lot of the literature on the GAmbia I found to
words/expressions I would love to know the translation of:
- "terri" (like in "terri kafo")
and
- "sosolasso" (which was an NCP slogan some time ago)

3) Is there anyone on the list who is member of any Gambian Youth
organisation, e.g GYF, NYSS, Youth Front against Drugs and Alcohol...
I would like to find out what you know and think about the situation of
the youth in the Gambia,how do they participate in social life, culture,
politics and so on

I'm sorry that my contributions are mostly questions, but at the moment
I find it very difficult to get more involved in the discussions that I
don enjoy a lot.
p.s.: Can anyone help out. by default I deleted a lot of unread
messages, this is wahat i sent to the listproc:
>GET GAMBIA-L.LOG9711A
and what came in return:
Subject: Error Condition Re: Invalid request
GET: missing arguments
Syntax: GET <archive | path-to-archive> <file> [/password] [parts]




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:30:48 -0500 (EST)
From: SANG1220@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: SANG1220@aol.com
Subject: Dr. Nyang
Message-ID: <971125193048_1570645330@mrin47>

Let me join the chorus and welcome you back to the bantaba (burk, long time)
Happy to hear of your position and like the others, look forward to reading
your postings.
Thanks
Daddy Sang

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:15:21 -0500
From: Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
To: Gambia-l List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Jammeh's Wealth
Message-ID: <347CC9A9.365DE0B0@cs.columbia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey folks,
You might be interested in reading a short CNN article to be found
at the following URL:
http://cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9711/15/AP001063.ap.html
The article for example says: "
The German report renewed speculation as to where
Jammeh
found the money to make several generous donations
recently. The
31-year-old leader who came to power in a 1994
coup recently
bought 22 new pickup trucks for his army and in
June gave
$10,000 to the Organization of African Unity. "
It is increasingly looks like Jammeh is in fact a more astute
manager of his meagre salary than Jawara ever was with his. A rich
African President is always cause for pause.
Abdou.




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:22:53 -0500
From: Abdou Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <347CCB6D.85EF9D7A@cs.columbia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi,
Per getting postings from the archives, our archive covers from January
31st, 1996 to
October 19th, 1997 . The discussions are divided into 90 parts.
Getting any piece of correspondence involves two steps:
(i) Send a command on line by itself to listproc@u.washington.edu to
retrieve a list of the files. The command is: index gambia-l -all
In return you will get output that looks like:
gambia-l.log9601e (1 part, 3956 bytes) -- We did it !
gambia-l.log9602a (1 part, 60055 bytes) -- Re: We did it !
gambia-l.log9602b (1 part, 7037 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 1
:
:
gambia-l.log9710c (1 part, 183620 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 89
gambia-l.log9710d (1 part, 299771 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 90
These files are in chronological order; gambia-l.log9710d contains
the latest discussions in October of 1997.
(ii)Send a command on a line by itself to retrieve the file of
discussions that you want. The command is: get gambia-l FILENAME where
FILENAME is the name of the file such as gambia-l.log9710c.
Retrieving a file will take a long time as the archives are stored
on tape drives. Additionally be careful that you do do not swamp your
own mailbox as these files are very huge. For example, we have
generated close to 30 Megabytes of discussions which is about 40, 000
pages of hard copy [Disclaimer: these are all rough estimates] !

-Abdou.



Jobst Mnderlein wrote:

> 1)Is there anyone on the list who understands/reads German? I have
> finished part of my Diploma-thesis on "Civil society in the Gambia.
> Democratisation and societal Organisation in the current transformation
> processes" (written in German - I'm sorry) and would love to get some
> feed back. Anyone who is interested please let me know.
>
> 2)Analysing quite a lot of the literature on the GAmbia I found to
> words/expressions I would love to know the translation of:
> - "terri" (like in "terri kafo")
> and
> - "sosolasso" (which was an NCP slogan some time ago)
>
> 3) Is there anyone on the list who is member of any Gambian Youth
> organisation, e.g GYF, NYSS, Youth Front against Drugs and Alcohol...
> I would like to find out what you know and think about the situation of
> the youth in the Gambia,how do they participate in social life, culture,
> politics and so on
>
> I'm sorry that my contributions are mostly questions, but at the moment
> I find it very difficult to get more involved in the discussions that I
> don enjoy a lot.
> p.s.: Can anyone help out. by default I deleted a lot of unread
> messages, this is wahat i sent to the listproc:
> >GET GAMBIA-L.LOG9711A
> and what came in return:
> Subject: Error Condition Re: Invalid request
> GET: missing arguments
> Syntax: GET <archive | path-to-archive> <file> [/password] [parts]
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:56:19 -0500
From: "Pa-Mambuna O. Bojang" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: "gambia-l@u.washington.edu" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: ZONE II IN THE GAMBIA
Message-ID: <347B9DE3.33C177AC@iglou.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Happy Turkey day to everyone.

I understand Zone II soccer tournament should be kicking off in the
Gambia this weekend. Could our fellow babtaba mates in the Gambia be
kind and keep us posted about game results as the are palyed? How many
and which countries are taking part in the competition? I wish our
Scorpions the best of luck.
SCORPIONS ALL THE WAY!!

GOD BLESS!!

Pa-Mambuna, Lexington


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:42:07 + 0100 MET
From: "Alpha Robinson" <garob1@cip.hx.uni-paderborn.de>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <1AA48413247@cip.hx.uni-paderborn.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Jobst, you may please get in touch at:
Garob1@cip.hx.uni-paderborn.de. It seems my mail to you did not reach
you or???

regards
Alpha

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:55:03 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <9711261455.AA25618@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hello Gambia-L,

The message below was fowarded to me by a friend. Despite my busy schedule
lately, I would like to hear your comments on this while I reserve mine
for later. However, I have a few questions to ask:

1. Would Nelson Mandela have survived and be president today if it wasn't
for Winnie's role in the liberation srtuggle?

2. During the apartheid struggle, wasn't Winnie the one who scarified
her life and happiness to so as to keep the struggle and the
Mandela name alive?

3. Doesn't she deserve respect, when we think about the fact that she
was the one who consistently traveled (to Washington) to lobby
sanctions against the white regime of South Africa?

4. Finally, is Winnie Mandela the enemy... or is it the whites?

Do you still remember when blacks were treated like dogs? Brtutalized,
maimed, beaten, burned, shot...you name. And now here we are proclaiming
her a bad person. What a "sell-out"!!!!

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

---------------------- forwarded message ------------------------

THE PRESENT:

Today, November 24, l997 Winnie Madikizela-Mandela faces a week long
testimony before The Truth and Reconciliation Committee in Johannesburg.
Headed by Desmond Tutu, this committee is charged with inquiring into
human rights violations during the long history of apartheid in South Africa.
Based on these testimonies, people who confess to have violated human rights
could be granted amnesty, and others awarded limited compensation. Why
is Winnie before this commission? Being falsely accused, tried and convicted
in l991, why would she need amnesty for anything she allegedly may have done
during apartheid? Having being sentenced and fined, why amnesty?

Focus of the testimony are allegations that Winnie kidnaped, beat and
killed some of the youths that were part of the Mandela Football Club, and
more specifically the death of Stompie Stepei. The youths of the football
club were bodyguards for Winnie, whose life was constantly in danger due
to the South Africa Security Police. Often, Winnie's bodyguard were
infiltrated by spies of the Security Police. Winnie has denied all the
above charges, and I whole heartedly believe her. Whatever she did, she
did for the Struggle. If she killed or ordered someone killed, she
probably did it for her own safety.

This testimony is not about truth or reconciliation. It is about power
within the ANC. Despite her so called conviction, her alleged
embezzlement and firing from her position as deputy minister, Winnie still
remains strong and popular to large numbers of South Africans. Why is
Winnie subpoena to appear before this committee? Because she has angered
the leadership of the ANC by challenging the preferred candidate for
Deputy President. Winnie's bid for the deputy presidency has rattled
senior party officials, who fear she may come out as a favorite. This
position would open the way to the highest position in the land after
Nelson Mandela retires in l999. This therefore, is ply to weaken Winnie
politically.

THE PAST:

Winnie was born in small village called Bizana, in the Transkei region.
She recieved a diploma in Social work for Jan Hofmeyer School, and a B.A
in Political Science, with major in International Relations from the
University of Witwatersrand, Johannnesburg. She was introduced to Nelson
Mandela in 1956 by Oliver Tambo's girlfriend who happen to be Winnie's
friend. Two years later, the two got married. Nelson Mandela was tried
for treason and sentenced to life in prison. While in prison, Winnie was
the life, the breath and the mouthpiece of Nelson Mandela. Except for her
bravery, Nelson would have languished and died unforgotten in prison.
Winnie 's bravery and no-nonsense character not only earned her
international respect, but brought the struggles of South Africa to the
forefront. Winnie Mandela can be single- handedly credited with keeping
her husband's name alive during the 27 years of imprisonment. The world
would never forget the day Nelson Mandela walked out of prison with Winnie
by her side.

What did Winnie get for 27 years of struggle in keeping Nelson Mandela's
and the South African dream alive? Divorce papers and a position as
junior deputy minister, from which she was fired shortly. Oh, how soon
the world forgets! Winnie was constantly watched, spied on by the
Security Police, harrassed, raided, banned from Soweto, and put in
solitary confinement for 18 months, most of which was spent in total
darkness. Oh, how soon Nelson forget that he owns his very life to God
and Winnie. Infidelty? Winnie was not open or disrespectful about it.
Her alleged accomplice also devoted all his efforts to the struggle and
getting Nelson out of prison. Winnie is human, and humans make mistake.
Could Nelson not find it in his heart to forgive Winnie?
On this matter she said:
I do not understand how a man who speaks of forgiveness and
reconciliation, a man who forgave a system that imprisoned
him for 27 years, could not do the same in his own house.

THE FUTURE:

Ted Koppel, on an interview last week, ask Winnie what the future holds.
She simply replied:
I do not know. I never planned everything that has happened
so far. I did not choose to be in the center of the South African
struggle, God put me there.

I have watched in painful silence my character being butchered in the
media. I have witnessed my contribution to this democracy being
villified and ridiculed. I have agonised over the deafenning silence of
friends who stand and watch with sadistic pleasure over this. I have
watched state serial killers recieve state pardons and treated better
by the highest authority. I intend to testify before the The Truth
Commission.
I intend to bare my soul to the scrutiny of my country. I beg that it
be done in public. I beg that these issues be tested by the
vigilance of the public. Let me claim decent treatment once and for
all.

For all she has done for her country and our continent, is this what she
deserves? Winnie will live through this week, and will emerge stronger
than ever, she will remain: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, The Great.



SOME FAMOUS QUOTES:
-------------------

I AM SADDEN BY ALL THIS. I AM VERY FOND OF HER.
SHE IS THE ICON OF THE STRUGGLE. WE MUST NOT
FORGET THAT.
Bishop Desmond Tutu on Winnie
November 25, l997

I STAND BEFORE YOU ALL WOMEN, FULLY AWARE OF
THE ACCUSTIONS HURLED AT ME. BUT I STAND DEFIANT,
TALL AND STRONG BECAUSE THE STRUGGLE IS STILL
GOING ON AND I'M STILL IN IT.
Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
April 19, 1997

THE HONORABLE WINNIE MANDELA HAS BEEN FOR
30 YEARS HARASSED, THROWN IN PRISON, ISOLATED
AND BEATEN, BUT SHE NEVER LOST HER RESOLVE.
Prof. Hasan Sisay
Chico State University
November 15, 1995

GLOBALLY, WOMEN HAVE A DUTY TO FIGHT FOR THE
RIGHTS OF ALL OUR SISTERS. IN SOUTH AFRICA WE CAN
TEACH YOU THE GAME. WOMEN ARE EMPOWERED
THROUGH EDUCATION. THIS IS WHERE WE MUST START.
Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Chico State University
April 15,1995

==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:10:12 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ZONE II IN THE GAMBIA
Message-ID: <9711261510.AA44758@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Pa-Mambuna, you wrote:

> Happy Turkey day to everyone.
>
> GOD BLESS!!

Happy Turkey day to you too, bro! Wishing you all the best on this great
day of American tradition called THANKSGIVING. But for us, we can just
think of it as TOBASKI...eat till you drop!

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

=========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:21:59 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ZONE II IN THE GAMBIA
Message-ID: <9711261521.AA43980@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Pa-Mambuna, you wrote:

> I understand Zone II soccer tournament should be kicking off in the
> Gambia this weekend. Could our fellow babtaba mates in the Gambia be
> kind and keep us posted about game results as the are palyed? How many
> and which countries are taking part in the competition? I wish our
> Scorpions the best of luck.
> SCORPIONS ALL THE WAY!!

Questions for anyone:

1. When was the last time the SCORPIONS won the cup?

2. What is the hottest first division team in the Gambia? I used to be a
HAWKS fan ... is the team still in existence?

3. Who is the best soccer player in the country at this point in time?

4. Will the professionals abroad be participating in ZONE II tournament?

5. Is basketball still a big game in the Gambia (Banjul)? If so, who is
the Michael Jordan of the Gambia basketball clubs?

Thanks for any reponses?

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:33:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Dr. Sulayman Nyang
Message-ID: <971126103310_195538004@mrin45.mail.aol.com>

Welcome and a big hello to Dr. Sulayman Nyang, an old friend l have not seen
or talked to in a long time. Congratulations for continuing to excel. Please
feel free to contact me at my private e-mail address.

Sister Jabou Joh.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:37:17 -0500
From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD54@Cry1.prc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Winnie will live through this week, and will emerge stronger
> than ever, she will remain: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, The Great.
>
>
YES, YES, YES - SHE WILL FOREVER STAND TALL, HER FORTITUDE UNSHAKEN FOR
SHE KNOWS WHAT THE STRUGGLE IS ABOUT - SHE HAS LIVED THE STRUGGLE!!!. I
AM WITH YOU MAMA WINNIE.

ALLUTA CONTINUA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Soffie



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:35:11 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: Time to discard English names -- a moment of reflection
Message-ID: <9711261535.AA34166@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

N'dey Marie, you wrote:

> Gambia-l:
>
> Here's one of those thought provoking articles that makes you take a moment
> to reflect on it. REad on......>
>
>
>
> >>Letter to a Kampala Friend:
> >>Time to discard English names
> >>The Monitor November 17, 1997


Great reading, N'dey Marie. Just great!

Thanks

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:40:06 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving
Message-ID: <9711261540.AA10954@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Habib, you wrote:
>
> Hope you all have a nice and enjoyable turkey day
> Does it not remind you of Harri -Tobaski or Easter Nan Buru celebration
> of families and friends.
> I suggest we get a Halal killed turkey (or you go to the farm and do it
> yourself) and invite your closest Gambian neighbour or friend.
> Let us join the celebration if we can afford it. Why not??
> Dr Nyang any thoughts or opinion on this
> Should we be part of it of not ?
> Habib

Happy Turkey day to you too, brother Habib.

Great suggestion...and will do!

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
====================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Momodou



Denmark
10540 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2021 :  15:26:56  Show Profile Send Momodou a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:52:06 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Liberia on the US
Message-ID: <9711261552.AA47946@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Habib, you wrote:

> Momodou Jagana, you wrote:
>
> > So FYI I am informed >.......take a chill pill
> >
> > momodou J
>
> Momodou
> I like your style and language. !!
> What is a chill pill and where can I get one ?.Since you know so much
> about these wonder chill pills and probably tried them also,does it have
> any after effects?? (laugh)
> Moe, tell me how I can get the money pill. Please
> Brother Habib
> ps I hope you can take a joke! I enjoyed yours.

Brother Habib,

Hehehe... I like that one. Yes, Jagana, show give us the money pill
instead.

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

=======================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:56:12 -0500
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <199711261556.KAA10457@aspen.mtu.edu>


> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Nov 26 10:04:47 1997
> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:55:03 -0500 (EST)
> From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Hello Gambia-L,
>
> The message below was fowarded to me by a friend. Despite my busy schedule
> lately, I would like to hear your comments on this while I reserve mine
> for later. However, I have a few questions to ask:
>
> 1. Would Nelson Mandela have survived and be president today if it wasn't
> for Winnie's role in the liberation srtuggle?
>
> 2. During the apartheid struggle, wasn't Winnie the one who scarified
> her life and happiness to so as to keep the struggle and the
> Mandela name alive?
>
> 3. Doesn't she deserve respect, when we think about the fact that she
> was the one who consistently traveled (to Washington) to lobby
> sanctions against the white regime of South Africa?
>
> 4. Finally, is Winnie Mandela the enemy... or is it the whites?
>
> Do you still remember when blacks were treated like dogs? Brtutalized,
> maimed, beaten, burned, shot...you name. And now here we are proclaiming
> her a bad person. What a "sell-out"!!!!
>
> Regards,
> Moe S. Jallow
>

Moe, I think that Winnie and many of South Africa's leaders did a lot during the Apartheid days to be admired for. However, when it comes to what is going on now and what the former husband can do, it should be clear that he or everyone else in the Truth Committee took up their jobs to carry out their responsibilities WITHOUT FEAR OR FAVOR! It is all part of the PRICE South African must pay for equallity under the the law.

Malanding jaiteh

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:08:49 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Hermeneutics of STOP sign (fwd)
Message-ID: <9711261608.AA55736@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

HERMENEUTICS (=the study of the meaning of scripture) IN EVERYDAY LIFE

Suppose you're traveling to work and you see a stop sign. What do
you do? That depends on how you exegete (=interpret) the stop
sign.

1. A postmodernist deconstructs the sign (knocks it over with his
car), ending forever the tyranny of the north-south traffic over
the east-west traffic.

2. Similarly, a Marxist refuses to stop because he sees the stop
sign as an instrument of class conflict. He concludes that the
bourgeois use the north-south road and obstruct the progress of
the workers in the east-west road.

3. A serious and educated Catholic rolls through the intersection
because he believes he cannot understand the stop sign apart from
its interpretive community and tradition. Observing that the
interpretive community doesn't take it too seriously, he doesn't
feel obligated to take it too seriously either.

4. An average Catholic (or Orthodox or Coptic or Anglican or
Methodist or Presbyterian or whatever) doesn't bother to read the
sign but he'll stop if the car in front of him does.

5. A fundamentalist, taking the text very literally, stops at the
stop sign and waits for it to tell him to go.

6. A seminary-educated evangelical preacher might look up "STOP"
in his lexicons of English and discover that it can mean: 1)
something which prevents motion, such as a plug for a drain, or a
block of wood that prevents a door from closing; 2) a location
where a train or bus lets off passengers. The main point of his
sermon the following Sunday on this text is: when you see a stop
sign, it is a place where traffic is naturally clogged, so it is
a good place to let off passengers from your car.

7. An orthodox Jew does one of two things: a) Take another route
to work that doesn't have a stop sign so that he doesn't run the
risk of disobeying the Law; b) Stop at the sign, say "Blessed art
thou, O Lord our God, king of the universe, who hast given us thy
commandment to stop," wait 3 seconds according to his watch, and
then proceed. Incidently, the Talmud has the following comments
on this passage: R[abbi] Meir says: He who does not stop shall
not live long. R. Hillel says: Cursed is he who does not count to
three before proceeding. R. Simon ben Yudah says: Why three?
Because the Holy One, blessed be He, gave us the Law, the
Prophets, and the Writings. R. ben Issac says: Because of the
three patriarchs. R. Yehuda says: Why bless the Lord at a stop
sign? Because it says, "Be still and know that I am God"....

8. A scholar from the Jesus Seminar concludes that the passage
"STOP" undoubtably was never uttered by Jesus himself because
being the progressive Jew that He was, He would never have wanted
to stifle peoples' progress. Therefore, STOP must be a textual
insertion belonging entirely to stage III of the gospel
tradition, when the church was first confronted by traffic in its
parking lot.

9. A NT scholar notices that there is no stop sign on Mark street
but there is one on Matthew and Luke streets, and concludes that
the ones on Luke and Matthew streets are both copied from a sign
on a street no one has ever seen called "Q" Street. There is an
excellent 300 page doctoral dissertation on the origin of these
stop signs and the differences between stop signs on Matthew and
Luke street in the scholar's commentary on the passage. There is
an unfortunate omission in the dissertation, however; it doesn't
explain the meaning of the text!

10. An OT scholar points out that there are a number of stylistic
differences between the first and second half of the passage
"STOP." For example, "ST" contains no enclosed areas and 5 line
endings, whereas "OP" contains two enclosed areas and only one
line termination. He concludes that the author for the second part
is different from the author of the first part and probably lived
hundreds of years later. Later scholars determine that the second
half is itself actually written by two separate authors beause of
similar stylistic differences between the "O" and the "P".

11. Another prominent OT scholar notes in his commentary that the
stop sign would fit better into the context three streets back.
Unfortunately, he neglected to explain why in his commentary.)
Clearly it was moved to its present location by a later redactor.
He thus exegetes the intersection as though the sign were not
there.

12. Because of the difficulties in interpretation, another OT
scholar amends the text, changing the "T" to "H". "SHOP" is much
easier to understand in context than "STOP" because of the
multiplicity of stores in the area. The textual corruption
probably occurred because "SHOP" is so similar to "STOP" on the
sign several streets back, that it is a natural mistake for a
scribe to make. Thus the sign should be interpreted to announce
the existence of a shopping area. If this is true, it could
indicate that both meanings are valid, thus making the thrust of
the message "STOP (AND) SHOP."

13. A "prophetic" preacher notices that the square root of the
sum of the numeric representations of the letters S-T-O-P
(sigma-tau-omicron-pi in the Greek alphabet), multiplied by 40
(the number of testing), and divided by four (the number of the
world--north, south, east, and west), equals 666. Therefore, he
concludes that stop signs are the dreaded "mark of the beast," a
harbinger of divine judgment upon the world, and must be avoided
at all costs.



===========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:12:48 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Humor: Any lawyers out there?
Message-ID: <9711261612.AA47752@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hope you enjoy!

----------------------

Recently reported in the Massachusetts Bar Association Lawyers
Journal, the following are 22 questions actually asked of witnesses
by attorneys during trials and, in certain cases, the responses
given by insightful witnesses:


1. "Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep,

he doesn't know about it until the next morning?"



2. "The youngest son, the twenty-year old, how old is he?"



3. "Were you present when your picture was taken?"



4. "Were you alone or by yourself?"



5. "Was it you or your younger brother who was killed in the war?"



6. "Did he kill you?"



7. "How far apart were the vehicles at the time of the collision?"



8. "You were there until the time you left, is that true?"



9. "How many times have you committed suicide?"



10. Q: "So the date of conception (of the baby) was August 8th?"

A: "Yes."

Q: "And what were you doing at that time?"



11. Q: "She had three children, right?"

A: "Yes."

Q: "How many were boys?"

A: "None."

Q: "Were there any girls?"



12. Q: "You say the stairs went down to the basement?"

A: "Yes."

Q: "And these stairs, did they go up also?"



13. Q: "Mr. Slatery, you went on a rather elaborate honeymoon,

didn't you?"

A: "I went to Europe, Sir."

Q: "And you took your new wife?"



14. Q: "How was your first marriage terminated?"

A: "By death."

Q: "And by who's death was it terminated?"



15. Q: "Can you describe the individual?"

A: "He was about medium height and had a beard."

Q: "Was this a male, or a female?"


16. Q: "Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a

deposition notice which I sent to your attorney?"

A: "No, this is how I dress when I go to work."


17. Q: "Doctor, how many autopsies have you performed on dead

people?"

A: "All my autopsies are performed on dead people."



18. Q: "All your responses must be oral, OK? What school did you go

to?"

A: "Oral."



19. Q: "Do you recall the time that you examined the body?"

A:"The autopsy started around 8:30 p.m.."

Q: "And Mr. Dennington was dead at the time?"

A: "No, he was sitting on the table wondering why I was doing

an autopsy."



20. Q: "You were not shot in the fracas?"

A: "No, I was shot midway between the fracas and the navel."



21. Q: "Are you qualified to give a urine sample?"

A: "I have been since early childhood."


22. Q: "Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for

a pulse?"

A: "No."

Q: "Did you check for blood pressure?"

A: "No."

Q: "Did you check for breathing?"

A: "No."

Q: "So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when

you began the autopsy?"

A: "No."

Q: "How can you be so sure, Doctor?"

A: "Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar."

Q: "But could the patient have still been alive nevertheless?"

A: "It is possible that he could have been alive and practicing

law somewhere."

=========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:27:03 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving
Message-ID: <347C4DD7.4D20@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Modou Jallow wrote:
>
> Habib, you wrote:
> >
> > Hope you all have a nice and enjoyable turkey day
> > Does it not remind you of Harri -Tobaski or Easter Nan Buru celebration
> > of families and friends.
> > I suggest we get a Halal killed turkey (or you go to the farm and do it
> > yourself) and invite your closest Gambian neighbour or friend.
> > Let us join the celebration if we can afford it. Why not??
> > Dr Nyang any thoughts or opinion on this
> > Should we be part of it of not ?
> > Habib
>
> Happy Turkey day to you too, brother Habib.
>
> Great suggestion...and will do!
>
> Regards,
> Moe S. Jallow
> ====================================================================
> mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Moe and have a great day.
To all in the Gambia-l group --
Happy Thanksgiving
peace
Habib

ps I got a fresh ly halal killed turkey yesterday near Baltimore.
--
MZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:39:39 -0500
From: globexinc@erols.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <347C50CB.22ED@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote:
>
> > From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Nov 26 10:04:47 1997
> > Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:55:03 -0500 (EST)
> > From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
> > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> > Subject: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
> >
> > Hello Gambia-L,
> >
> > The message below was fowarded to me by a friend. Despite my busy schedule
> > lately, I would like to hear your comments on this while I reserve mine
> > for later. However, I have a few questions to ask:
> >
> > 1. Would Nelson Mandela have survived and be president today if it wasn't
> > for Winnie's role in the liberation srtuggle?
> >
> > 2. During the apartheid struggle, wasn't Winnie the one who scarified
> > her life and happiness to so as to keep the struggle and the
> > Mandela name alive?
> >
> > 3. Doesn't she deserve respect, when we think about the fact that she
> > was the one who consistently traveled (to Washington) to lobby
> > sanctions against the white regime of South Africa?
> >
> > 4. Finally, is Winnie Mandela the enemy... or is it the whites?
> >
> > Do you still remember when blacks were treated like dogs? Brtutalized,
> > maimed, beaten, burned, shot...you name. And now here we are proclaiming
> > her a bad person. What a "sell-out"!!!!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Moe S. Jallow
> >
>
> Moe, I think that Winnie and many of South Africa's leaders did a lot during the Apartheid days to be admired for. However, when it comes to what is going on now and what the former husband can do, it should be clear that he or everyone else in the Truth Committee took up their jobs to carry out their responsibilities WITHOUT FEAR OR FAVOR! It is all part of the PRICE South African must pay for equallity under the the law.
>
> Malanding jaiteh

....


I have high regards for Mrs. Winnie Mandella and her courage for the
struggle which eventually lead to the freedom of President Mandella.
Secondly, how many freedom fighters get praise from the western media??
I do not expect her to get a fair trial but if she did what is alledged
a simple apology to me would suffice.
( Israel's prime minister - the late Menahem Began - did worst things
like bombing the King David Hotel and killed many jews and Arabs in his
fight for his country but after an apology he was forgiven and became
the Prime minister . Winnie has not done similar killings but why are
forgeting all her positive contributions to the African continent
Amanza to Winnie

Habib
--
MZ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:42:46 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
To: "'Gambia-L'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Cabral Cup II in the Gambia
Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F3219031101164@DKDIFS02>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCFA92.B6A95090"

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFA92.B6A95090
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

8 month back when I had to plan my tour to The Gambia I planned to go
when The Gambia should host the Cabral Cup zone II in october.
Unfortunately they later postponed from october as planned till
november-december. But I manage to see interviews given from the
Scorpions training camp in Ghana. And I was really disappointed. The
players interviewed had allready started to think negative, and prepare
all the excuses WHEN they failed. "The preparations started too late"
"shirts were missing" etc, etc. Instead of positive thinking: "We
started late, BUT we will be ready in time" "Even lack of shirts we
train with great confidence and the play is better every day" or
something like that. I ended my tour contributing to the Scorpions, and
I did send them a small note, wishing good luck, but allso that they
should "bite like scorpions" and not fear the senegalese. Some of my
gambia friends have promissed to tape the matches and post them to
Denmark. I do hope that I will come to see positive attitudes and great
performance from the SCORPIONS. A big new scoreboard was build at the
Bakau stadium. Like the national danish team means a lot to the danish,
I do hope that the SCORPIONS will bring glamour to the Gambia. =
Asbj=F8rn
Nordam



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:41:26 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: FYI: FELLOWSHIP, African Development Dissertation Workshop (fwd)
Message-ID: <9711261741.AA51300@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

FELLOWSHIP:

African Development Dissertation Workshop
at University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana
May 7-10, 1998

THEME: The Arts and Humanities in Africa's Economic and Political
Transitions

The wave of political and economic reforms that have swept over Africa
in the last decade and the continent's earlier post-colonial experience
affected not only people's relationship with markets and governments,
but also their modes and content of self-expression, concepts of
identity, and value systems. The forces behind these social,
political, and economic movements are both internal and external and
have expressed themselves in the popular culture as well as formal
statements of recognized authorities.
Hence theatre, music, film, literature, and the visual arts have both
reflected and shaped economic and political developments in the
continent.

The dissertation workshop on the arts and humanities in Africa's
economic and political transitions will provide a venue for intensive
discussion of research proposals relating to the arts in any
manifestation to African development. The intent is to help students
develop methodologically and theoretically rigorous research designs for
doctoral work that is relevant to African development. While
methodology will vary with subject matter and discipline, all proposals
should include at least nine months of field work in Africa.

ELIGIBILITY: African students enrolled in doctoral programs in the
behavioral and social sciences, fine and applied arts, and humanities
are eligible. Students need not have advanced to candidacy, but must
have a written dissertation research proposal. Applicants should submit
a research proposal of 10 to 15 pages, a curriculum vitae, a list of
graduate courses completed, and a letter of reference form their
academic advisor or research supervisor.

APPLICATION DEADLINE: January 15, 1998

Address the application to: Paul Tiyambe Zeleza
Professor of History & Director of
African Studies
Center for African Studies
210 International Studies
910 S. Fifth Street
Champaign, IL 61820

FOR MORE INFORMATION: Contact Sue Swisher at the Center for African
Studies at swisher@uiuc.edu or by telephone at
217-333-6335

==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:49:09 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: OBITUARY: Malawi's Kamuzu Banda
Message-ID: <9711261749.AA52446@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

FYI, former Malawian president Kamuzu Banda has died in a Johannesburg
clinic. He was believed to be 99 years old.

VOA's correspondent Alex Belida reports from South Africa:

" Mr. Banda was flown to Johannesburg from his home in
Malawi earlier this month after contracting pneumonia and falling
into a coma. A spokeswoman at the clinic where he had been
treated says he died Tuesday night of respiratory failure.
Mr. Banda led malawi from its independence in 1964 until the
country's first democratic elections in 1994 -- three decades in
which he single-handedly controlled virtually every aspect of the
nation's life, ruthlessly suppressing any opposition. after his
ouster, he was charged with murder but acquitted.

The South African government Wednesday expressed regret at Mr.
Banda's death. president Nelson Mandela paid tribute to the
former Malawian leader, telling reporters that despite his public
image and his links with the former apartheid government, Mr.
Banda did many positive things people did not know about,
including aiding the black liberation movement in Zimbabwe and
providing the African National Congress with financial
assistance. " (signed)

--------------------------------

Source: Voice of America


========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:12:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, africans@iastate.edu
Subject: Graduate Students Needed (fwd)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971126131111.22473514@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>>Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:14:52 -0600
>>From: Tom Franti <bsen091@unlvm.unl.edu>
>>Subject: Graduate Students Needed
>>X-Sender: bsen091@unlvm.unl.edu
>>To: brown.59@osu.edu
>
>>Dear Colleagues:
>>
>>We have two graduate assistantships available for students interested in
>>hydrology, nonpoint source pollution modeling and water quality. One is=
an
>>M.S. level and one a Ph.D. Please inform interested students and forward
>>any names to me. Thanks.
>>Tom
>>
>>I have typed descriptions of the positions below as well as attached a=
file
>>with a more information.
>>
>>Assistantships
>>
>>Ph.D: One (1) Ph.D. Graduate Research Assistantship is available to=
develop
>>new modeling approaches to the hydrology and water quality interactions
>>within riparian buffers. The candidate will advance the study of the
>>hydrology of vegetative buffers and their impact on reducing nonpoint
>>source pollution. The modeling will lead to improved engineering and
>>application of riparian buffer systems in the Great Plains. Laboratory=
and
>>field validation will be required as part of the modeling. The candidate
>>will be part of a multi disciplinary research team addressing this issue.
>>Knowledge of advanced hydrologic models and computer programming skills=
are
>>required.
>>
>>M.S: One (1) M.S. Graduate Research Assistantship is available to evaluate
>>surface water quality from agricultural management systems. Research will
>>include computer modeling (GLEAMS and AGNPS), field plot data analysis,
>>evaluation of hydrologic data from small watersheds, and laboratory
>>analysis for water quality parameters.
>>
>> Research Assistants will be responsible for independent computer odeling
>>evaluation, data collection, and laboratory work. A new computer lab,
>>including GIS capabilities is available for graduate research. Excellent
>>laboratory and field facilities are available for experimental analysis.
>>Research Assistants will develop strong communication and time management
>>skills while working on a variety of projects, and will prepare
>>publications and deliver oral presentations based on their research=
results.
>>
>>
>>Attachment Converted: C:\OFFINETW\eudora\GRADPOS.bck
>>
>>________________________________________________________________
>> Thomas G. Franti, Ph.D., P.E.
>> Assistant Professor and=20
>> Surface Water Management Specialist
>> Biological Systems Engineering Department
>> University of Nebrasaka-Lincoln
>> 234 L.W. Chase Hall, Lincoln, NE 68583-0726
>> Ph: 402-472-9872 Fax: 402-472-6338
>> Email: bsen091@unlvm.unl.edu
>>
>> Visit the Platte Watershed Program website at:
>> www.unl.edu/ianr/pwp/" target="_blank">http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/pwp/
>>________________________________________________________________
>Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=3D"GRADPOS.BCK";
> x-mac-type=3D"42494E41"; x-mac-creator=3D"6D646F73"

>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=3D"GRADPOS.BCK"
>
>=FFWPCu=10

-----------------------------------
N'Deye Marie N'Jie =20
Graduate Research Associate
The Ohio State University
Rm 260 Agricultural Engineering Bldg
590 Woody Hayes Drive
Columbus, OH 43210

Fax: (614)292-9448
Phone: (614) 688-3445 (W)
E-mail: njie.1@osu.edu


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:17:44 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Jammeh's Wealth
Message-ID: <9711261817.AA40650@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Abdou Touray, you wrote:

>
> Hey folks,
> You might be interested in reading a short CNN article to be found
> at the following URL:
> http://cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9711/15/AP001063.ap.html

Thanks for the URL. Yeah, it really makes one wonder if there is any truth
in this. Do you not smell a rat?

The German Public television reported:

"... it had secretly filmed the gold in a Gambian warehouse and
claimed that Mobutu associates were selling it on the
international market. "

Well, when do we get to see it? Jobst, what's the latest on this in
Germany?


Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

======================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:51:05 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: A Nigerian Prodigy
Message-ID: <9711261851.AA50898@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

This is incredible!!

Who amongst you remember when you were 5 years old? :-)))))))).

PANA news agency reports:

" ... a five-year-old Nigerian boy is preparing to take the
British General Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE) examination
in maths, following his excellent mastery of the subject in spite of
his tender age.

But while the British media are hailing Joshua Bright as a prodigy, his
parents say they are just nurturing a gift which all children have.

Every child has a gift, and it is up to the parents and the teachers to
identify the gift and encourage it, said Gbola Bright, Joshua's father,
a chemistry graduate of the University of Lagos, one of Nigeria's major
institutions of higher learning.

Joshua began displaying his mathematical ability at the tender age of
two after listening to times tables recorded on musical tapes which his
father was using to teach older children maths.

As soon as Joshua's father recognised his son's gift, the parents began
giving him extra lessons in computer skills and basic maths.

His school in the East London Borough of Hackney, home to many
Africans, noted: Joshua is always keen to contribute to class dicussion
and displays a good memory for previous learning. However, he finds it
difficult to wait his turn, usually knowing the correct answer, and
will often answer for other children.

Ironically, Hackney is one of the boroughs in the UK that government
inspectors have identitified as several failing schools and
institutions where educational standards are low.

-------------------------------------

Source: PANA News.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:59:18 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Cabral Cup II in the Gambia
Message-ID: <9711261859.AA37108@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Asbjorn, you wrote:

> 8 month back when I had to plan my tour to The Gambia I planned to go
> when The Gambia should host the Cabral Cup zone II in october.
> Unfortunately they later postponed from october as planned till
> november-december. But I manage to see interviews given from the
> Scorpions training camp in Ghana. And I was really disappointed. The
> players interviewed had allready started to think negative, and prepare
> all the excuses WHEN they failed. "The preparations started too late"
> "shirts were missing" etc, etc. Instead of positive thinking: "We
> started late, BUT we will be ready in time" "Even lack of shirts we
> train with great confidence and the play is better every day" or
> something like that. I ended my tour contributing to the Scorpions, and
> I did send them a small note, wishing good luck, but allso that they
> should "bite like scorpions" and not fear the senegalese. Some of my
> gambia friends have promissed to tape the matches and post them to
> Denmark. I do hope that I will come to see positive attitudes and great
> performance from the SCORPIONS. A big new scoreboard was build at the
> Bakau stadium. Like the national danish team means a lot to the danish,
> I do hope that the SCORPIONS will bring glamour to the Gambia.
> Asbjorn
> Nordam

Asbjorn,

Thank you for the quick run down. I see that, when it comes to soccer,
SENEGAL is still our biggest enemy :-))). Sounds very natural!

When will this rivalry end, if ever? Is SENEGAL still the dominant team?

Regards,
Moe S. Jallow

=========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:17:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.971126134821.27490B-100000@dante15.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Mr. Jaiteh, I think you brought up a very interesting argument:
rather, somewhat convincing. However, I think the problem in Winnie's case
has something to do with what is referred to as "divide and rule". I
think Winnie is one of the few icons of our time that we all could emulate
(male and female alike). Instead, she is been made the scapegoat for South
Africa's past.
Nelson Mandela has been and will remain to be my hero, but I think
he made a mistake that hum... guess it. I think Winnie deserves a lot not
only from him but also from post apartheid south Africa in general. It is
mind boggling how he (Mr. Mandela) and few of the elicits in ANC could
distant themselves from Winnie after all she went through to free him and
south Africa or perhaps I don't know any better. Either way, I think the
sad plight of their relation certainly will remain to mark a watershed in
south Africa's history or so I envisioned.
Thanx,
Dawdab Singhateh.


On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote:

>
> > From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Nov 26 10:04:47 1997
> > Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:55:03 -0500 (EST)
> > From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
> > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> > Subject: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
> >
> > Hello Gambia-L,
> >
> > The message below was fowarded to me by a friend. Despite my busy schedule
> > lately, I would like to hear your comments on this while I reserve mine
> > for later. However, I have a few questions to ask:
> >
> > 1. Would Nelson Mandela have survived and be president today if it wasn't
> > for Winnie's role in the liberation srtuggle?
> >
> > 2. During the apartheid struggle, wasn't Winnie the one who scarified
> > her life and happiness to so as to keep the struggle and the
> > Mandela name alive?
> >
> > 3. Doesn't she deserve respect, when we think about the fact that she
> > was the one who consistently traveled (to Washington) to lobby
> > sanctions against the white regime of South Africa?
> >
> > 4. Finally, is Winnie Mandela the enemy... or is it the whites?
> >
> > Do you still remember when blacks were treated like dogs? Brtutalized,
> > maimed, beaten, burned, shot...you name. And now here we are proclaiming
> > her a bad person. What a "sell-out"!!!!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Moe S. Jallow
> >
>
> Moe, I think that Winnie and many of South Africa's leaders did a lot during the Apartheid days to be admired for. However, when it comes to what is going on now and what the former husband can do, it should be clear that he or everyone else in the Truth Committee took up their jobs to carry out their responsibilities WITHOUT FEAR OR FAVOR! It is all part of the PRICE South African must pay for equallity under the the law.
>
> Malanding jaiteh
>


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:17:42 -0000
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <B0000019309@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit


Dear Folks,
Regarding Mrs Winnie Madikezela-Mandela: On BBC Focus on Africa, 25/11/97;
It was reported that "Baroness"Emma Nicholson was taking private
prosecution on murder charges against Winnie on behalf of Stompie ??'s
mother;
now this Emma Nicholson if I recall was a short-lived Minsiter or junior
minister under Margaret Thatcher..the latter and her cabinet was very
famous in affording apartheid much needed breathing space in its latter
years and also holding the ANC and Mandala as communist-terrorists;
I think Nicholson should just simply be deported as an undesirable and
unwanted element in Africa..
I don't care whether Winnie is guilty or innocent; Emma does not have a
voice or vote in our affairs; it is like having the KKK decide on black on
black crime

folks, I have used the utmost restraint in not calling the b******* the
names she deserves in my opinion.
pmj

----------
> From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu>



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:52:49 PST
From: "kebba trawally" <kaktra@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New member
Message-ID: <19971127035254.16343.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Assalamu Alaikum,
I thnk you very much for accepting into the Gambia list. In this regard,
I would like to give a brief introduction of myself as require.
I was born at Sukuta village, Jarra East District, Lower River Division
in 1971. I attended Sukuta Primary School from 1980 to 1986. I then
joined Nusrat High School from 1986 to 1991 for my Ordinary Level. From
there I joined Sait Augustine's High School from 1991 to 1993 for my
Advanced Level. After finishing my Advanced Level in 1993, I was
fortunate to get admission into International Islamic
University(Malaysia) in Jully 1994. I am now a final year student in
Bachelor of Business Administration program with Finance as my
concentration area.
I do hope that my membership of Gambia list would be of great benefit to
all of us. I wish everyone great success in all our engagements.



>From gambia-l-owner@u.washington.edu Tue Nov 18 11:55:12 1997
>Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
> by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with
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> id LAA00226; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:50:13 -0800
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> id LAA57514 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 18 Nov 1997
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> by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with
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> id LAA14835 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Tue, 18 Nov 1997
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+0100
>Message-Id: <19971118194808.AAA14604@momodou>
>Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:47:40 +0200
>Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
>Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
>Precedence: bulk
>From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
>To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
>Subject: New member
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
>Greetings,
>Kebba A.K. Trawally has been added to the list. Welcome to Gambia-l
>Kebba. We look forward to your contribution.
>
>You can send a brief introduction. Our address is:
>gambia-l@uwashington.edu
>
>
>regards
>Momodou Camara
>
>*******************************************************
> http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
>
>**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
> possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:48:07 +0300
From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <01bcfaef$c8c654a0$f92185c2@q-tel.qatar.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mr.Jallow,

I don't think I could say it better myself!The Third Force,as Winnie calls
them,with their racist friends around the world,esp.those of them in
Britain, want to do everything that could help puncture Winnie's chances of
becoming the future president of South Africa.

Thabo Nbeki may or may not be the next president of South Africa, but sadly
for her enemies,the Mother of the Nation would sooner or later become the
president of South Africa;and when that happens, she would do exactly what
the white establishment and its friends are so scared of,namely,the real
dismantlement of all the white power structures without which the real
enpowerment of Shaka's children would never materialise.

Could the South African diamond giant,De Beers,for instance,ever imagine the
day when 80 or 90% of its board members would be black men and women?! And
what about the gold industry and the banks and how would most white families
manage to clean up and feed themselves in a world in which they could no
longer afford to pay black nannies and domestic helps to do that for
them.These are the real stuffs that is scaring them to death,and who else
could deliver that last blow to the remnants of apartheid than the very
woman who has kept the liberation candle burning for twenty-seven eternal
years.

Winnie,we are waiting! Come and rule over us,its your turn now.



Reagrds Basss!
-----Original Message-----
From: pmj@commit.gm <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, November 27, 1997 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela


>Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
> via Commit
>
>
>Dear Folks,
>Regarding Mrs Winnie Madikezela-Mandela: On BBC Focus on Africa, 25/11/97;
>It was reported that "Baroness"Emma Nicholson was taking private
>prosecution on murder charges against Winnie on behalf of Stompie ??'s
>mother;
>now this Emma Nicholson if I recall was a short-lived Minsiter or junior
>minister under Margaret Thatcher..the latter and her cabinet was very
>famous in affording apartheid much needed breathing space in its latter
>years and also holding the ANC and Mandala as communist-terrorists;
>I think Nicholson should just simply be deported as an undesirable and
>unwanted element in Africa..
>I don't care whether Winnie is guilty or innocent; Emma does not have a
>voice or vote in our affairs; it is like having the KKK decide on black on
>black crime
>
>folks, I have used the utmost restraint in not calling the b******* the
>names she deserves in my opinion.
>pmj
>
>----------
>> From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu>
>
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:51:40 PST
From: "sarjo marenah" <smarenah@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: introduction
Message-ID: <19971127065141.16209.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Hillo members,
My name is Sarjo Marenah,I was burn in 1975,in Kaur Janneh Kund ,Lower
Saloum District,Central River Division.
I started at Armitage High School for my O'levels,but soon
transfered to Albert Academy in Freetown,Sierra Leone,where I completed
both "O" and "A"Levels.Iam now pursuing my undergraduate degree in
Accounting at The International Islamic University-Malaysia.
I am a freshman student.
It's a pleasure to join this L.
Thank you.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:43:32 -0500
From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Survey
Message-ID: <19971127.114335.14726.0.nahak@juno.com>

Hello gambia-l, kindly complete this survey and return back to me at
Unnisaa@aol.com

1) What is your ethnicity?

2) What is your Country of origin?

3) What is your highest level of education?

4) What is your gender? a)female b)male

5) What is your age? a)16-19 b)20-25 c)26-30 d)31-35 e)36-up

6) What do you think are the five most important things our governments
and we must do to have a united Africa?
a)

b)

C)

d)

e)

7) What are the five most important things our governments and we can do
to stop ethnic conflict in Africa?

a)

b)

c)

d)

e)

8) What do you think are the five most important things we should do to
avoid military violence in Africa?
a)

b)

c)

d)

e)

9) What role should our governments and we play in order to stop
corruption in Africa?


10) What are the five most important things we should do to unite with
all African descendents around the globe?
a)

b)

c)

d)

e)

11) What type of government do you think a united Africa should have and
why?



THANK YOU FOR COMPLETING THIS SURVEY! E-MAIL TO Unnisaa@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:43:58 -0500
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Survey
Message-ID: <199711271743.MAA07226@rs1.mtu.edu>


> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Thu Nov 27 11:43:57 1997
> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:43:32 -0500
> From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Survey
> X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-12,14-24,26-37,39-49,51-53,55-65,67-71
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Hello gambia-l, kindly complete this survey and return back to me at
> Unnisaa@aol.com
>
> 1) What is your ethnicity?
>
> 2) What is your Country of origin?
>
> 3) What is your highest level of education?
>
> 4) What is your gender? a)female b)male
>
> 5) What is your age? a)16-19 b)20-25 c)26-30 d)31-35 e)36-up
>
> 6) What do you think are the five most important things our governments
> and we must do to have a united Africa?
> a)
>
> b)
>
> C)
>
> d)
>
> e)
>
> 7) What are the five most important things our governments and we can do
> to stop ethnic conflict in Africa?
>
> a)
>
> b)
>
> c)
>
> d)
>
> e)
>
> 8) What do you think are the five most important things we should do to
> avoid military violence in Africa?
> a)
>
> b)
>
> c)
>
> d)
>
> e)
>
> 9) What role should our governments and we play in order to stop
> corruption in Africa?
>
>
> 10) What are the five most important things we should do to unite with
> all African descendents around the globe?
> a)
>
> b)
>
> c)
>
> d)
>
> e)
>
> 11) What type of government do you think a united Africa should have and
> why?
>
>
>
> THANK YOU FOR COMPLETING THIS SURVEY! E-MAIL TO Unnisaa@aol.com
>
Mr Gomez, please tell us more about your survey.

Malanding Jaiteh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:12:47 EST
From: MJagana <MJagana@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Liberia on the US
Message-ID: <f4ce6c67.347db821@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 97-11-26 11:13:12 EST, you write:

<< show give us the money pill
instead. >>
Dear Moe,

The money pill is available @ A PENNY SAVED IS A PENNY EARNED.

LOL

MOMODOU J

PS: DO NOT OVER DO THE TURKEY TOBASKI IS ON THE WAY (JOKE)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:51:33 -0500
From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Survey
Message-ID: <19971127.135136.4390.1.nahak@juno.com>

The purpose of the survey is to gather information on how Africa can work
toward a United sustainable continent. This is not a school project. I
believe in African Unity.
Thanks for asking.
MGOMEZ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:15:13 -0800
From: "nari@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Brief introduction
Message-ID: <B0000019409@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "National Agricultural Research Institute" <nari@commit.gm>
via Commit


Dear Fafanding,

Greetings from NARI! How are you getting on with your studies? I hope life
is treating you nicely in Malaysia.

Well, when I sighted your brief introduction on the screen, I decided to
get in touch with you so that you will know that we also on the line. This
means that you can now communicate with us very easily. Let me inform you
that my position has changed hands from a socioeconomics supervisor to a
Documentalist and, of course, with a higher grade. I am therefore
responsible for the management of the NARI library and I have two Library
Assistants who are currently undertaking 45 days on-the-job training in
documentation in Niamey, Niger.

The Director General is very much concerned about my long-term training in
the field of information managment and he is interested in placing me in an
institution to pursue a Diploma in Library and Information Studies. But so
far, we have not been successful in our efforts. So having seen your e-mail
address, I thought it a good idea to find out from you whether there is any
possibility for me to pursue the above area in colleges/universities in
Malaysia? If possible, could you please let me have the details as soon as
possible, so that I could send in an enquiry, on behalf of the DG, for
information and an application form for the 1998/99 academic year.

With greetings to your fellow-Gambian students,


Yours sincerely,


Falankoi Janneh

----------
> From: fafanding fatajo <ffatajo@hotmail.com>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Brief introduction
> Date: Sunday, November 16, 1997 5:59 PM
>
> Dear Camara and core,
> My name is Fafanding s Fatajo ( F.S.Fatajo) from Sallikenni Village
> Cntral Baddibou North Bank Division.
> I am currently studying in Malaysia.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:30:49 -0000
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Cabral Cup II in the Gambia
Message-ID: <B0000019411@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit


Hi Mr. Jallow (Modou),
regarding the rivalry between Gambia and Senegal; it is like the one
between Nigeria and Ghana, it is a Big Bro-Small Bro kinda thingy.you
know..incidentally Sierra Leone is the defending Champs and despite their
current political problems and the fact that the Gambia Govt. decide to
extend an invitation to the national team and sport minister of the exiled
Tejn Kabba govt. as opposed to the illegal govt. of Koroma; the Sierra
Leone team or Leone Stars arrived in Banjul with such a fanfare and
carnival including a person masquerading Pres. Jammeh with boubous and
prayers beads included..that I for one will NOT rule them OUT..so watch out
for armchair coaching and commentary from this end
ciao
pmj
ps for your general info. and knowledge: did you know that Amilcar Cabral
was the nom de guerre of Abel Djassi..I picked that from the Zone 2
preparations..



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:19:27 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: OBITUARY: Malawi's Kamuzu Banda
Message-ID: <347DF1EF.1F26@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Modou Jallow wrote:
>
> FYI, former Malawian president Kamuzu Banda has died in a Johannesburg
> clinic. He was believed to be 99 years old.
>
> VOA's correspondent Alex Belida reports from South Africa:
>
> " Mr. Banda was flown to Johannesburg from his home in
> Malawi earlier this month after contracting pneumonia and falling
> into a coma. A spokeswoman at the clinic where he had been
> treated says he died Tuesday night of respiratory failure.
> Mr. Banda led malawi from its independence in 1964 until the
> country's first democratic elections in 1994 -- three decades in
> which he single-handedly controlled virtually every aspect of the
> nation's life, ruthlessly suppressing any opposition. after his
> ouster, he was charged with murder but acquitted.
>
> The South African government Wednesday expressed regret at Mr.
> Banda's death. president Nelson Mandela paid tribute to the
> former Malawian leader, telling reporters that despite his public
> image and his links with the former apartheid government, Mr.
> Banda did many positive things people did not know about,
> including aiding the black liberation movement in Zimbabwe and
> providing the African National Congress with financial
> assistance. " (signed)
>
> --------------------------------
>
> Source: Voice of America
>
> ========================================================================> mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kamuzu Banda destroyed Malawi and put that country economy in total
ruins. Although I do not wish any bad on another human being but I
compare him to Mobutu. Let us put their wounds behind us and try to heal
as fast as we can for there is no time to waste for the future of our
children.
Allah will be the best judge and each leader will be personally
accountable for his evil deeds to his subjects.
May his soul rest in peace
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:33:23 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: Survey
Message-ID: <347DF533.7708@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael J Gomez wrote:
>
> Hello gambia-l, kindly complete this survey and return back to me at
> Unnisaa@aol.com
>
> 1) What is your ethnicity?
>
> 2) What is your Country of origin?
>
> 3) What is your highest level of education?
>
> 4) What is your gender? a)female b)male
>
> 5) What is your age? a)16-19 b)20-25 c)26-30 d)31-35 e)36-up
>
> 6) What do you think are the five most important things our governments
> and we must do to have a united Africa?
> a)
>
> b)
>
> C)
>
> d)
>
> e)
>
> 7) What are the five most important things our governments and we can do
> to stop ethnic conflict in Africa?
>
> a)
>
> b)
>
> c)
>
> d)
>
> e)
>
> 8) What do you think are the five most important things we should do to
> avoid military violence in Africa?
> a)
>
> b)
>
> c)
>
> d)
>
> e)
>
> 9) What role should our governments and we play in order to stop
> corruption in Africa?
>
> 10) What are the five most important things we should do to unite with
> all African descendents around the globe?
> a)
>
> b)
>
> c)
>
> d)
>
> e)
>
> 11) What type of government do you think a united Africa should have and
> why?
>
> THANK YOU FOR COMPLETING THIS SURVEY! E-MAIL TO Unnisaa@aol.comMr Gomez
what will this survey be used for and who is requesting it ? (managers of
Gambia-L or just you) Will the names of participants be be sold to a
marketting group or not?
Please give us some clarity
thanks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:35:17 -0800
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "c:netscapeMAILSent"@smtp3.erols.com
Subject: Re: Liberia on the US
Message-ID: <347DF5A5.5FB2@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MJagana wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-11-26 11:13:12 EST, you write:
>
> << show give us the money pill
> instead. >>
> Dear Moe,
>
> The money pill is available @ A PENNY SAVED IS A PENNY EARNED.
>
> LOL
>
> MOMODOU J
>
> PS: DO NOT OVER DO THE TURKEY TOBASKI IS ON THE WAY (JOKE)OK OK you win
Habib

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:01:40 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <347E5034.491@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Pa Musa!
I completely agree with you regarding Emma Nicholson. A documentary
was shown on Swedish television about a month or two ago about the
bodyguard she was "helping" and how she was "concerned" about his civil
rights. I was rather pissed after I saw the documentary because I could
see the hypocritical tactics she used with the intention of assasinating
Winnie=B4s character. I pitied the bodyguard more because he typified the=

most ignorant among us letting himself be used for propaganda against a
woman of Winnie=B4s stature by a woman who might have called him a ******=

had she not found any use for him.
Regarding Nelson Mandela=B4s treatment of Winnie as posted by others, I
must say that I was rather disappointed that Nelson Mandela could be so
forgiving of the Apartheid establishment and not find it in his heart to
forgive the woman who kept him and the struggle alive. Like the saying
goes, "charity begins at home". I for one would have been convinced of
Nelson=B4s forgiving nature if he had forgiven Winnie for the things she
did during his time in prison. After all, she is only human and over
twenty years is a long time. If she was the one imprisoned for such a
long time, he probably would have married another woman or had many
lovers without such a big fuss.
Here are a few things Nelson said and wrote about Winnie which he now
seems to have forgotten:

SOURCE: Benson, M. (1986) Nelson Mandela, Penguin Books.

"Had it not been for your visits, wonderful letters and your love, I
would have fallen apart many years ago". (page 199)

"...I am solidly behind you and know too well that you suffer because of
your love of and loyalty to the children and me, as well as to our large
family." (page 195)

"Darling, just pack some of my clothes in a suitcase with my toiletries.
I will be going away for a long time. You=B4re not to worry, my friends
here will look after you. They=B4ll give you news of me from time to time=
=2E
Look well after the children. I know you=B4ll have the strength and
courage to do so without me, I now know you are capable of that." (page
95)

"Your love and support...the charming children you have given the
family, the many friends you have won, the hope of enjoying that love
and warmth again, is what life and happiness mean to me....Yet there
were moments...when I have wondered whether any kind of commitment can
ever be sufficient excuse for abandoning a young and inexperienced woman
in a pitiless desert, literally throwing her into the hands of
highwaymen; a wonderful woman without her pillar and support at times of
need. (page 238)

Here are some quotes from Winnie:

"...but the trip back is awful. I feel so empty....But I can=B4t help
thinking of all these years of our lives that have gone down the drain,
our best years. Nelson is sixty-three now, and I am like a young girl,
still looking for the experience of married life." (page 211)

"...In fact during my visit he took off his shoes and showed it through
the window. I saw his foot for the first time in twenty-one years".
(page 221)

"That Margareth Thatcher should have the audacity to tell us, the
oppressed people of South Africa, that we are wrong in calling for
sanctions! I am appalled that a woman Prime Minister should be so
insensitive to mothers spending their time collecting their children=B4s
bodies from the streets" (page 249) Is Emma Nicholson still angry about
Winnie=B4s uncompromising attitude towards that hypocritical Margaret
Thatcher and wants to revenge through character assassination?

"We know what we want. Our aspirations are dear to us. We are not asking
for majority rule; it is our right, we shall have it at any cost. We are
aware that the road before us is uphill, but we shall fight to the
bitter end for justice." (page 189)

"I was never there to hold my little girls=B4 hands, take them to school
and intoduce them to their teachers....I have never met any of my
children=B4s teachers. I couldn=B4t do that because it would have meant
violating the terms of my banning order." (page 171)

"All I had was a plastic bottle with about five glasses of water, a
sanitary bucket, three blankets and a sisal mat. About a week later I
was transferred to a 'condemned' cell: a cell which usually holds
prisoners who are going to be executed....Three white stewardesses
brouht the food. They would then take the sanitary bucket, turn the lid
upside down and put your plate of food on that. So I never ate." (page
177)


The quotes can go on and on. I sent these few quotes to serve as
reminders of what Winnie went through and the role she played in both
Nelson Mandela=B4s and the struggle=B4s lives. In these days when everyth=
ing
said about her is negative, I beg to differ and say that I personally
stand behind her 100 percent. She is human and has committed some
mistakes but if Nelson Mandela and South Africa can forgive the
propagators of one of the world=B4s most brutal dictatorships, people who=

have committed murders uncountable, who have condemned generations of
African people to destitution, then they can definitely forgive a woman
who sacrificed what most of us would not even dream of sacrificing. She
is a fighter and she will fight on, believe me. She has the support of
grassroots South Africa and even though my support does not count in
South Africa, she has my support as an African. Thanks.
Buharry.
BTW, are you Ousainou and Assan Jallow=B4s brother?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

pmj@commit.gm wrote:
> =

> Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
> via Commit
> =

> Dear Folks,
> Regarding Mrs Winnie Madikezela-Mandela: On BBC Focus on Africa, 25/11/=
97;
> It was reported that "Baroness"Emma Nicholson was taking private
> prosecution on murder charges against Winnie on behalf of Stompie ??'s
> mother;
> now this Emma Nicholson if I recall was a short-lived Minsiter or junio=
r
> minister under Margaret Thatcher..the latter and her cabinet was very
> famous in affording apartheid much needed breathing space in its latter=

> years and also holding the ANC and Mandala as communist-terrorists;
> I think Nicholson should just simply be deported as an undesirable and
> unwanted element in Africa..
> I don't care whether Winnie is guilty or innocent; Emma does not have a=

> voice or vote in our affairs; it is like having the KKK decide on black=
on
> black crime
> =

> folks, I have used the utmost restraint in not calling the b******* the=

> names she deserves in my opinion.
> pmj
> =

> ----------
> > From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 23:10:10 +0300
From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: OBITUARY: Malawi's Kamuzu Banda
Message-ID: <01bcfb70$76ea3260$c22385c2@kolls567>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I don't think I would lose a night's sleep over his demise! please,keep up
the good work down there.

Regards Bassss!
-----Original Message-----
From: Habib Ghanim <hghanim@erols.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Date: 28//1418 04:21
Subject: Re: OBITUARY: Malawi's Kamuzu Banda


>Modou Jallow wrote:
>>
>> FYI, former Malawian president Kamuzu Banda has died in a Johannesburg
>> clinic. He was believed to be 99 years old.
>>
>> VOA's correspondent Alex Belida reports from South Africa:
>>
>> " Mr. Banda was flown to Johannesburg from his home in
>> Malawi earlier this month after contracting pneumonia and falling
>> into a coma. A spokeswoman at the clinic where he had been
>> treated says he died Tuesday night of respiratory failure.
>> Mr. Banda led malawi from its independence in 1964 until the
>> country's first democratic elections in 1994 -- three decades in
>> which he single-handedly controlled virtually every aspect of the
>> nation's life, ruthlessly suppressing any opposition. after his
>> ouster, he was charged with murder but acquitted.
>>
>> The South African government Wednesday expressed regret at Mr.
>> Banda's death. president Nelson Mandela paid tribute to the
>> former Malawian leader, telling reporters that despite his public
>> image and his links with the former apartheid government, Mr.
>> Banda did many positive things people did not know about,
>> including aiding the black liberation movement in Zimbabwe and
>> providing the African National Congress with financial
>> assistance. " (signed)
>>
>> --------------------------------
>>
>> Source: Voice of America
>>
>> ========================================================================>
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Kamuzu Banda destroyed Malawi and put that country economy in total
>ruins. Although I do not wish any bad on another human being but I
>compare him to Mobutu. Let us put their wounds behind us and try to heal
>as fast as we can for there is no time to waste for the future of our
>children.
>Allah will be the best judge and each leader will be personally
>accountable for his evil deeds to his subjects.
>May his soul rest in peace
>Habib
>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:02:09 -0000
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <B0000019544@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit


Dear Buharry,
Thanks for taking the time to send this very apt reminder..I am 29 years
old and I still cannot comprehend nor do I think I ever will what it must
have been or felt...the LADY is GREAT..and like all GREAT PEOPLE, other
humans will try to PULL YOU DOWN; in her struggle and OUR struggle, when
MANDELA had the luxury of conscience and she had to make LIFE and DEATH
choices, her mistakes are understandable and acceptable..compared with the
cold-blooded and calculated killing of Chris Hani or the calculated murders
of Steve Biko and other heroes of the Struggle..
ps..I am not underestimating Mandela's struggle and the choice he made or
had to make but i think and I know how it feels (in a little way) when
your conscience is imprisoned and you live with the fact that you have to
make choices to live, during the period of military rule in The Gambia, a
very good and close friend and brother was a security detainee; for his
sake and my own conscience, I never felt free during the 2 + years

in closing, Mr Buharry, yes I am Ouse and Assan's younger brother and I do
remember you from Serre Kunda School and thanks again for reminding us and
keeping things in their proper perspective..
pss: is there an e-mail address we can send our feelings and show our
support..a little token of solidarity with the other but EQUALLY if not
GREATER MANDELA ( WINNIE MADIKEZELA)
pmj
----------



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:55:10 -0500
From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Survey
Message-ID: <19971127.215513.3422.1.nahak@juno.com>

The purpose of the survey is to gather information on how Africa can work
toward a United sustainable continent. This is not a school project. I
believe in African Unity.
Please be advised that the survey did not request anyone to provide his
or her name. This is not a marketing survey. It will not be sold to
anyone. The survey is open to anyone who is interested in responding to
it. Feel free. The survey is from me, Michael Gomez. Thanks for asking.
Check this webpage::: http://members.aol.com/Unnisaa/Unnisaa.html.or
http://members.aol.com/Unnisaa/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:24:00 +0100
From: amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Cabral Cup II in the Gambia
Message-ID: <347e7388.narud@relay.nsw.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=body.txt

PMJ

You wrote:

ciao
pmj
ps for your general info. and knowledge: did you know that Amilcar Cabral=

was the nom de guerre of Abel Djassi..I picked that from the Zone 2
preparations..


Was it not the other way round?; that Abel Djassi was the nom de guerre =
=

of Amilcar Cabral? Or is it just my memory playing tricks on me?

A. Kabir Njie. =



---------------------------------------------------------------------
amadou.kabir.njie@nsw.no
Narud Stokke Wiig AS
R=E5dhusgt. 27
N-0158 OSLO
NORWAY
Tel: +47 22 33 06 70
Fax: +47 22 41 45 01
---------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:40:42 +0000
From: "narb@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: DELISTING
Message-ID: <v01520d00b0a46b575310@[149.212.100.55]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sent by narb@commit.gm (National Agricultural Research Board)
via Commit


Hi folks, I am proceeding on a one month leave and would kindly request to
be delisted until 29 December 1997.

I wih the group a Merry X-mas.

Dr. Jeng : narb@commit.gm




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 07:50:48 PST
From: "Theodor Stenevang" <stenevang@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Please change my adress
Message-ID: <19971128155108.12335.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear listadministrator,

I would like to have my address

stenevang@hotmail.com

changed, to be the following:

v97tst@stud.ki.se

Thank you

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 07:51:41 PST
From: "Theodor Stenevang" <stenevang@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Please change my adress
Message-ID: <19971128155141.9928.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear listadministrator,

I would like to have my address on the list

stenevang@hotmail.com

changed, to be the following:

v97tst@stud.ki.se

and thereby remain on the list, only with another address than the
present.

Thank you, Theodor Stenevang

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:40:32 -0500 (EST)
From: BAKSAWA@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Subscription
Message-ID: <971128174032_1206013781@mrin51.mail.aol.com>

List Managers:

Please add my sister Sailey Sey to the List. Her e-mail addres is:

seys@husson.edu
Thanks in advance


Awa Sey

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 23:09:29 -0000
From: "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Zone II Tourney - All roads lead to Independence Stadium
Message-ID: <B0000019775@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Archibald H. R. Graham" <archibald.graham@commit.gm>
via Commit


Dear Pa-Mambuna, Lexington

Further to your request of 26th Nov. on the list regarding the Zone II
tournament, I am obliged to find and provide you with the following
information which falls to my notice though not a football enthusiast:

Fixtures:

8 Countries taking part:

Group A Group B

A1 Gambia (GM) B1 Sierra Leone (SL)
A2 Senegal (SEN) B2 Mali (MAL)
A3 Cape Verde (CV) B3 Guinea Bissau (GB)
A4 Mauritania (MAU) B4 Guinea Conakry (GC)

Timetable:

Nov
28 A1 (GM) - A3 (CV)
A2 (SEN) - A4 (MAU)

29 B1 (SL) - B3 (GB)
B2 (MAL) - B4 (GC)

30 A1 (GM) - A4 (MAU)
A3 (CV) - A2 (SEN)

Dec
1 B2 (MAL) - B3 (GB)
B4 (GC) - B1 (SL)

2 A1 (GM) - A2 (SEN)
A3 (CV) - A4 (MAU)

3 B1(SL) -B2 (MAL)
B3 (GB) -B4 (GC)

5 A WINNER GROUP A - 2ND GROUP B
B WINNER GROUP B - 2ND GROUP A

7 3RD & 4TH PLACES LOOSER A - LOOSER B
FINAL WINNER A - WINNER B


The kick off took place today.

The Scorpions made a decisive victory over the Cape Verde team by 3 goals
to 1.

The first goal by the Scorpions was scored within the 1st 10 mins. of the
1st round while the other 2 within the 1st 15mins of the 2nd round.

Senegal had a lone goal draw with Mauritania after losing at least 2
penalties awarded them during their match.

Turnout at the Stadium today is estimated at about 25 to 30 thousand.

8 professional Gambian international players including Jatto Cessay from
Europe came to beef up the Scorpions.

Looking forward to tomorrow's matches.

Archi


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:34:12 PST
From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New member
Message-ID: <19971129003413.20286.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear List manager,

Please include Mr. Musa Sonko in The Gambia List. His e-mail address is
<< msonko@hotmail.com >>. Your usual co-operation is highly
appreciated.

Sillah Conateh.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 00:21:55 -0000
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: re: zone II commentary from the arm chair
Message-ID: <B0000019788@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit


Folks,
It is my pleasure to indulge in this ..feel free to chip in ..The Gambia
Scorpions thrashed Cape Verde 3-1 with goals in the 6th, 51st and 57th
minutes by Ebou Silla, Jatto and Ebrima Sonko, all international players; I
really can't remember who scored Cape verde's goal but it seems The Gambia
is of with an excellent start..it could have easily been more.
Senegal and Mauretania played to 1-1 draw with Mauretania playing superior
tactical game and Senegal always failing to convert their chances into
goals, including missing 2 penalties..(nb..I saw 1 penalty missed but have
been told that a second was missed)..anyway Mauretania led through the
first half with a single goal and Senegal only equalised in 4 minutes of
injury time. I am still holding that for The Gambia to finally lift the
Trophy..we must watch out for our traditional opponents..Senegal and
defending champs, Sierra Leone.
Tomorrow (Saturday) Sierra Leone plays Guinea Bissau; Mali versus Guinea
Conakry..
ciao from Banjul
pmj


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:00:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "D. Singhateh" <dawdas@u.washington.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: re: zone II commentary from the arm chair
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.971128194004.41412B-100000@dante08.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi!! Pa Musa,
Thanks for the wonderful piece below. It's very
much appreciated and I hope you will find time to send in more as the
games progress. Can't wait, starving for more, if you will.
Thanks again,
Dawda Singahteh.




On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, pmj@commit.gm wrote:

> Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
> via Commit
>
>
> Folks,
> It is my pleasure to indulge in this ..feel free to chip in ..The Gambia
> Scorpions thrashed Cape Verde 3-1 with goals in the 6th, 51st and 57th
> minutes by Ebou Silla, Jatto and Ebrima Sonko, all international players; I
> really can't remember who scored Cape verde's goal but it seems The Gambia
> is of with an excellent start..it could have easily been more.
> Senegal and Mauretania played to 1-1 draw with Mauretania playing superior
> tactical game and Senegal always failing to convert their chances into
> goals, including missing 2 penalties..(nb..I saw 1 penalty missed but have
> been told that a second was missed)..anyway Mauretania led through the
> first half with a single goal and Senegal only equalised in 4 minutes of
> injury time. I am still holding that for The Gambia to finally lift the
> Trophy..we must watch out for our traditional opponents..Senegal and
> defending champs, Sierra Leone.
> Tomorrow (Saturday) Sierra Leone plays Guinea Bissau; Mali versus Guinea
> Conakry..
> ciao from Banjul
> pmj
>
>


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 01:27:39 -0500 (EST)
From: MJagana@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Survey
Message-ID: <971129012738_632658374@mrin85.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-11-27 14:57:09 EST, you write:

<< The purpose of the survey is to gather information on how Africa can work
toward a United sustainable continent. This is not a school project. I
believe in African Unity.
Thanks for asking.
MGOMEZ >>


Dear MR Gomez,

I would not mind to reply to your survey. But could you kindly elaborate on
the recipints of these important statistics.

momodou J

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 01:07:26 -0600
From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: re: zone II commentary from the arm chair
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971129004607.0faf780a@etbu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Masters Pa Musa and Archibald,
Thanx for the up-to-the-minute updates. CONGRATULATIONS to The Gambian
SCORPIONS for an awesome start!!!! Good luck all the way!!! Gentlemen, I
hope it would not be asking for too much to ask that you guys continue to
feed us with the details as the games progress. Nice start, by the way.
Pa Musa, you mentioned a few names from The Gambian side that are
currently playing on international soil. Can you please tell us where they
are playing, what team(s) they played for while they were in The Gambia, and
how long they have been gone. This may help some of us to identify who these
fellows are. I know Jatto, but the other two names are very unfamiliar.
Maybe i have been gone too long. Anyway nostalgia is beginning to set in, so
i better be going. Nice weekend everybody.
It's Tamsir.


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:12:25 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <3480BD79.6A36@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Pa Musa!
Yes, I thought it was you. It=B4s great that Gambia-l can bring us al=
l
together regardless of the distance between us. Regarding an e-mail
address where we can send our support to Winnie Mandela, I am not aware
of any. Maybe someone else can help. Maybe Moe can ask his South African
friend who wrote the original thread. Have a nice weekend.
Buharry.

P.S.
Say hi to Ousainou and Assan who were my classmates. I have not seen
Ousainou in over 14 years. I met Assan in London around 1991 when we
both visited Alieu Secka when he was studying there. Once again, it is
really nice to be able to get in touch despite the distance.
D.S.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

pmj@commit.gm wrote:
> =

> Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
> via Commit
> =

> Dear Buharry,
> Thanks for taking the time to send this very apt reminder..I am 29 year=
s
> old and I still cannot comprehend nor do I think I ever will what it mu=
st
> have been or felt...the LADY is GREAT..and like all GREAT PEOPLE, other=

> humans will try to PULL YOU DOWN; in her struggle and OUR struggle, whe=
n
> MANDELA had the luxury of conscience and she had to make LIFE and DEATH=

> choices, her mistakes are understandable and acceptable..compared with =
the
> cold-blooded and calculated killing of Chris Hani or the calculated mur=
ders
> of Steve Biko and other heroes of the Struggle..
> ps..I am not underestimating Mandela's struggle and the choice he made =
or
> had to make but i think and I know how it feels (in a little way) when=

> your conscience is imprisoned and you live with the fact that you have =
to
> make choices to live, during the period of military rule in The Gambia,=
a
> very good and close friend and brother was a security detainee; for his=

> sake and my own conscience, I never felt free during the 2 + years
> =

> in closing, Mr Buharry, yes I am Ouse and Assan's younger brother and I=
do
> remember you from Serre Kunda School and thanks again for reminding us =
and
> keeping things in their proper perspective..
> pss: is there an e-mail address we can send our feelings and show our
> support..a little token of solidarity with the other but EQUALLY if not=

> GREATER MANDELA ( WINNIE MADIKEZELA)
> pmj
> ----------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:05:44 +2000
From: mmjeng@image.dk
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikzela Mandela
Message-ID: <199711291706.SAA08517@mail.image.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

JOHANNESBURG, South Africa -- Police investigating two murders
allegedly linked to Winnie Madikizela-Mandela found insufficient
evidence to prosecute her, a police commissioner testified Friday. .
George Fivaz told the commission looking into apartheid-era crimes
that police responded to tips and pleas from relatives of the victims
on several occasions, but did not find enough evidence to file
charges. He described a key witness against President Nelson Mandela's ex-wife
-- her former bodyguard Katiza Cebekhulu -- as unreliable because he
kept changing his story.

I am sending the full story to the bush.
Greetings
Matarr M. Jeng.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:02:01 -0500
From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <19971129.130204.3430.0.nahak@juno.com>

Listmanager, unsubscribe me from the following e-mail addresses,
mbg@guinness.som.cwru and mbg@guinness.som.cwru.edu. The only e-mail I
want to keep with gambia-l is nahak@juno.com. Please take care of this as
soon as possible. Thanks!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 20:10:13 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Questions of Real Legal Status of African Sla
Message-ID: <19971129191207.AAC47484@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Gambia-l,
FYI the mail below was sent to us and I just think it might me
interesting for some of you.

Momodou Camara

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
To: mcamara@post3.tele.dk
From: djembe@inform-bbs.dk (Djembe Magazine)
Reply-to: djembe@inform-bbs.dk (Djembe Magazine)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:56:38 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Questions of Real Legal Status of African Sla
Organization: Inform

FORGET MENTAL ENSLAVEMENT! ARE WE STILL SLAVES BY U.S. CONSTITUTIONAL
LAW AND ARE THEY EXTORTING TAXES FROM US BASED UPON OUR LACK OF
MUTUALITY WITH THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND OUR 'FORCED CITIZENSHIP'
WITHOUT ASKING US IN 1865 AFTER ESTIMATES OF UP TO 150 MILLION OF US
HAD DIED IN THE WORLD'S WORST HUMAN HOLOCAUST? THIS IS THE CLAIM OF
74 YEAR OLD BLACK ATTORNEY DR. ROBERT L. BROCK, EX-GARVEYITE, ATTORNEY
FOR A BLACK CLASS ACTION TAX CASE THAT EXHAUSTED LEGAL REMEDIES
THROUGH THE U.S. SUPREME COURT THIS YEAR AND IS NOW IN THE UNITED
NATIONS COURT, A VICTORY FOR AFRICAN SLAVE DESCENDANTS BY U.S. & IRS
DEFAULT IN THE CASE (Leonard Ashton et al versus The United States
Government and the Internal Revenue Service). PLEASE CONTACT DR. BROCK
FOR ALL THE REAL CONCEPTS AND DETAILS, BUT SEE THE ATTACHED EXCERPT
FROM BROCK'S BOOK. (Dr. Robert L. Brock, President, Self-Determination
Committee, P.O. Box 15288, Washington, D.C. 20003, telephone number
(202) 544-5366.

Excerpt from "Black Tax Rebellion in the U.S.A.: A Study" by Ida
Hakim Article


(from PASSPORT TO FREEDOM: WITH REPARATIONS AND SELF-DETERMINATION, by
Dr. Robert L. Brock, President, The Self Determination Committee,
Washington, D.C.) "PROTECTION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW": Because of its
past and present criminal acts, the United States of America has
refused to ratify a number of different International Human Rights
Treaties and Conventions. By doing this, it protects itself from an
obligation of having to report to the United Nations. Evidence of this
reluctance can be found in the arguments when Congress was deciding
upon ratifying the Genocide Convention in 1970. This statement was
directed toward Senators Church, Javits, Cooper, Symington and Pell of
the Foreign Relations Sub-Committee: "At that time (referring to the
1950's) there was great alarm over the words, 'mental harm' but this
committee slew that dragon by defining the words to mean 'permanent
physical injury to mental faculties' and they set other guidelines
which are available to you. Rather than ratification encroaching on
our Constitutional law and authority, the very opposite can happen if
we do not ratify as you will see by reading Article 8....Any
Contracting Party may call upon the competent organs of the United
Nations to take such action under the Charter of the United Nations as
they consider appropriate for the prevention and Suppression of acts
of genocide or any other acts enumerated in this article
111....Gentlemen, do not take this cause lightly. I hold in my hand a
letter to me dated February 8, 1970 from Thomas Drake, president of
the United Alliance of African Organizations in which he states: "I
sure would like to be there to discuss with you in particular the
Genocide Covenant. It can be proven without a doubt that the act of
genocide is being used at this present time against my people here in
America." Please let me repeat that phrasing, 'against my people here
in America.' You know that the Black Nations in the U.N. far
outnumber us in their vote and actually numerically. What is to
prevent any one of these Nations from bringing an action against those
here in the United States who have committed Genocide, and they could
well bring charges against every school board member who has voted for
forced integration of our schools, federal judges who have issued
decrees and the United States Supreme Court. I doubt if there is much
you could do to stop the United Nations from bringing any of these
guilty parties before an International Court of Justice. Certainly
this argument makes clear the fear of retaliation and the knowledge of
the criminality of forced assimilation. This fear is based on reality.
When the rebellion of Blacks becomes a world issue, we will more than
likely see help coming from Member States of the United Nations. If
there is validity in Dr. Brock's arguments about a war of enslavement,
1st and 2nd class status based upon race and ethnicity, and one
continuous act of force against Blacks to this day, then there are
International Laws upon which the descendants of slaves can rely to
protect themselves which the United States Government has ratified
(perhaps believing that it would be able to escape charges on these
issues). The following quotes are arguments of dr. Brock which point
out the violations of Plaintiff's international rights: 1) "The
taking of Ashton's property and the force of arms approach on Ashton
to submit to the United States Jurisdiction violated International Law
rights of Ashton under the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights. Leonard Ashton is an international person with
International Common Law Domicile in Africa. The acceptance of Human
Rights Treaties by the aggressor United States, accused of Genocide,
Slavery and denial of self-determination, Ashton takes, and has as
beneficiary of all Treaties, and here charges the Judges and the
United States with violation of his rights under International Law."
2) "The present system of taxing Plaintiff by a two tier system and
citizenship by a two tier system is in violation of both the Genocide
Convention against Plaintiff as a group, and the International
Convention on the Abolition of Slavery, the Slave Trade, and
Institutions and Practices Similar to Slavery." 3) "The two
citizenship denies Plaintiff the equal use of the Bill of Rights or
First Ten Amendments due to Racial Discrimination distinction based
upon color and slave descent. As to the First Ten Amendments being
denied to Plaintiff in violation of the Treaties and Human Rights the
following is stated: The Fourteenth Amendment citizen has no inherent
constitutional right to any of the following: (a) peaceful assembly,
(b) exemption from compulsory self-incrimination, (c) trial by jury in
both civil and criminal cases, (d) right to bear arms, (e) prosecution
by indictment of a grand jury, and (f) right to be confronted with
witnesses, among others. The distinction between National and State
citizenship and their respective privileges there drawn has come to be
firmly established." 4) "Sovereign Immunity cannot be used for
individual persons to defeat slavery and genocide as both of them are
crimes by International Law, which is Public Law, whereas, the 13th
Amendment is Private Law set to correct a local condition of ending
slavery, caused and supported by the same government that allowed and
participated in it, therefore Plaintiff seeks the International Law on
slavery. UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS, ARTICLE 4: No one
shall be held in slavery or servitude and slavery and the slave trade
shall be prohibited in all their forms. For the purposes of the
present Convention: a) Slavery means, as defined in the Slavery
Convention of 1926, the status or condition of a person over whom any
and all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are
exercised, and "slave" means a person in such condition or status.
Plaintiff charges Defendant with slavery by taxation and for all other
actions amounting to slavery. The following acts constitute captivity
and slavery in violation of the Convention: Unilateral enactment of
the 14th Article of Amendment legislation as legislative citizens with
a grant periodically of civil rights and special privileges and
immunities, one of them being the burden of taxation, to which
Plaintiff objects, for the additional grounds touching no
jurisdiction." 5) "Genocide is a crime under International Law, like
piracy, torture, the Defendants by their failure to answer can, if
apprehended, be tried in foreign States as in Filariga versus
Pena-Irala, 630 F2d 876." 6) "That the Charter of the United Nations,
upon ratification by the U.S. Senate, became the supreme law of the
land, within constitutional provision, Article VI, Section 2, and once
ratified, failure of an organ of government to pass measures or to do
an act that is necessary to give effect to the ratified treaty cannot
be offered as an excuse for avoiding the responsibility incurred or
defeat Plaintiff's "rights", and that Defendant, United States, cannot
'adduce' its own constitution, laws, codes with a view to evading
obligations incumbent on Defendant, United States, under International
Law and under the Charter of the United Nations." 7) "Plaintiff
maintains that according to his alien status that the charges alleged
in this complaint fall within the 'core' of human rights violation on
slavery, genocide, self-determination, crimes against humanity,
requiring answer to disclaimer." 8) "In support of 'direct action
struggle' to achieve liberties, freedom and self-determination, having
disclaimed Defendants laws, the Black People will continue to use
International Laws, such as: The U.N. General Assembly Resolution
2625: EVERY STATE HAS A DUTY TO REFRAIN FROM FORCIBLE ACTION WHICH
DEPRIVES PEOPLE...OF THEIR RIGHT TO SELF-DETERMINATION AND FREEDOM AND
INDEPENDENCE. Finally, the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights indicates a place of primacy for self-determination."
9) "Petitioner has as one of its challenges against the IRS that of a
disclaimer. The Petitioner uses only Treaties and Conventions and
Covenants one of which is the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights Part II, Article 2, and under which Petitioner Ashton
sues for the violations of his rights:Article 2: 3. Each State Party
to the present Covenant undertakes: (a) To ensure that any person
whose rights or freedoms as herein recognized are violated shall have
an effective remedy, notwithstanding that the violation has been
committed by persons acting in an official capacity; (b) To ensure
that any person claiming such a remedy shall have his right thereto
determined by competent judicial, administrative or legislative
authorities, or by any other competent authority provided for by the
legal system of the State, and to develop the possibilities of
judicial remedy; (c) To ensure that the competent authorities shall
enforce such remedies when granted." In the United States of America,
due to the efforts of Dr. Robert L. brock and Congressman John
Conyers, both the Judicial and the Legislative remedies have
apparently been exhausted. The Legislature has refused to take the
first step toward considering a remedy (HR 40 tabled since its
introduction in 1991), and as we have read, the judicial remedy is
exhausted. The references listed in this study, plus many other
references to International Laws, Covenants and Treaties in the legal
briefs of Dr. Brock, seem to be thorough enough to verify that slave
descendants have legal grounds and the United Nations has an
obligation. As we know, the Lost Found Nation under the guidance of
the Honorable Silis Muhammad, has already petitioned the United
Nations for intervention and reparations, using the Human Rights laws
which protect National Minorities. The Black Tax Rebellion gives
further validity to the arguments of the Lost Found Nation, and those
organizations (National Commission for Reparations and
C.U.R.E./A.F.R.E.) that are assisting the international effort. The
Honorable Silis Muhammad's plea must be heard now that rebellion
against tyranny and oppression has begun to take place in earnest.
Finally, we will provide an answer from the international community
itself, to the question put forward in the beginning of this study:
"Can the Black Tax Rebellion be defended, before Nations of the world,
as rebellion against tyranny? Dr. Y.N. Kly, international legal
scholar offers thee general types of claims available to (so-called)
African Americans on pages 70-72 of his book, A POPULAR GUIDE TO
MINORITY RIGHTS. Option one would be based on an agreement between the
National Minority and their Government. (The exhaustion of domestic
remedies means that this option has failed.) The second option would
involve a claim under the International Convention on Civil and
Political Rights with references made to 'recourse...to rebellion
against tyranny and oppression' set forth in the Universal Declaration
of Human Rights and the language in the Declaration of International
Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Cooperation Among States.
(Although Dr. Kly reminds the reader that he presumes it would be a
democratic assembly of the Minority that would bring these claims,
history tells us that rebellions are not begun by taking a vote.) Dr.
Kly's third option is quoted herein: "The third option would probably
be the most disruptive to positive relations between groups in the
United States. African-Americans could claim they have a right to
self-determination as a revolt against oppression and the violation of
their human rights. This would call attention to the long history of
gross violations of their human rights and the continuation of this
pattern into the present." Dr. Kly's options in International Law for
the slaves' descendants and their rebellion, seem to indicate that
Blacks are correct in taking legal, non-violent actions, and they
deserve the assistance of the world community. We in C.U.R.E./A.F.R.E.
urge the Nations of the world to respond.Black Tax Rebellion in the
U.S.A. is published by Ida Hakim for C.U.R.E./A.F.R.E., P.O. Box 6103,
River Forest, Illinois 60305, and distributed by the Self
Determination Committee, P.O. Box 15248, Washington, D.C. 20003,
telephone# (202) 544-5366.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 20:19:09 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Members
Message-ID: <19971129192102.AAA47614@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Greetings,
Musa Sonko and Sailey Sey have been added to the list. Welcome to our
Bantaba. Please send a brief introduction. Our address is:
gambia-l@u.washington.edu

Have a good weekend.

Regards
Momodou Camara

PS. Congratulations to the Scorpions for the first victory.
*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara

**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:59:01 -0500
From: "Pa-Mambuna O. Bojang" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Zone II Tourney - All roads lead to Independence Stadium
Message-ID: <3480AC44.AA944178@iglou.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Archi;
Thanks for the Zone II info. Its wonderful to hear that the Scorpions won the
tournament opener. Please keep us posted with the results as the tourney
continues. Is my friend and former team mate (Gasimu Nying or Gas) still
playing for the Scorpions? I have not the least doubt in mind that they will
win it all. Go Scorpions!!

GOD BLESS!!

Pa-Mambuna, The BlueGrass State

archibald.graham@commit.gm wrote:

> Sent by "Archibald H. R. Graham" <archibald.graham@commit.gm>
> via Commit
>
> Dear Pa-Mambuna, Lexington
>
> Further to your request of 26th Nov. on the list regarding the Zone II
> tournament, I am obliged to find and provide you with the following
> information which falls to my notice though not a football enthusiast:
>
> Fixtures:
>
> 8 Countries taking part:
>
> Group A Group B
>
> A1 Gambia (GM) B1 Sierra Leone (SL)
> A2 Senegal (SEN) B2 Mali (MAL)
> A3 Cape Verde (CV) B3 Guinea Bissau (GB)
> A4 Mauritania (MAU) B4 Guinea Conakry (GC)
>
> Timetable:
>
> Nov
> 28 A1 (GM) - A3 (CV)
> A2 (SEN) - A4 (MAU)
>
> 29 B1 (SL) - B3 (GB)
> B2 (MAL) - B4 (GC)
>
> 30 A1 (GM) - A4 (MAU)
> A3 (CV) - A2 (SEN)
>
> Dec
> 1 B2 (MAL) - B3 (GB)
> B4 (GC) - B1 (SL)
>
> 2 A1 (GM) - A2 (SEN)
> A3 (CV) - A4 (MAU)
>
> 3 B1(SL) -B2 (MAL)
> B3 (GB) -B4 (GC)
>
> 5 A WINNER GROUP A - 2ND GROUP B
> B WINNER GROUP B - 2ND GROUP A
>
> 7 3RD & 4TH PLACES LOOSER A - LOOSER B
> FINAL WINNER A - WINNER B
>
> The kick off took place today.
>
> The Scorpions made a decisive victory over the Cape Verde team by 3 goals
> to 1.
>
> The first goal by the Scorpions was scored within the 1st 10 mins. of the
> 1st round while the other 2 within the 1st 15mins of the 2nd round.
>
> Senegal had a lone goal draw with Mauritania after losing at least 2
> penalties awarded them during their match.
>
> Turnout at the Stadium today is estimated at about 25 to 30 thousand.
>
> 8 professional Gambian international players including Jatto Cessay from
> Europe came to beef up the Scorpions.
>
> Looking forward to tomorrow's matches.
>
> Archi




------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:52:38 -0000
From: "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Zone II Tourney - 2nd day
Message-ID: <B0000019930@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent by "Archibald H. R. Graham" <archibald.graham@commit.gm>
via Commit


Hi all on the list

Another day with the tournament has successfully ended.

The 1st match turned out to be a victory for the Leone Stars of Sierra
Leone, with a 2 - 1 victory over Guinea Bissau after discounting 2 of the
goals shoots of the Leone Stars disallowed by the referee.

The Leone Stars team, currently the Trophy's champions, is said to have
been reinforced bearly 24 hours ago when some of the players successfully
made their way through the borders of crisis striven Sierra Leone with the
aid of the ECOMOG forces. Anyway despite their troubles back home they
are apparently a formidable force that the Scorpions need not under rate.
Their coordination during the match despite virtually no preparatory team
workings leaves doubts in me of excuses made by some African international
players that they would not perform well locally as they do on the
international scene because it would take a while to get into the local
team's rhythm.

The 2nd match between Guinea Conakry and Mali ended up in a deadlock with a
goal-less draw.

If I were to opt for a replay of any of the matches played to date, I
would not hesitate to request for this 2nd match of today between Guinea
Conakry and Mali. The ball play was fast, the passes were accurate, and the
technical formation satisfactory on both sides. It is also noteworthy that
Guinea Conakry is the only team represented in the tournament that is
qualified for the next continental Africa Cup 1998 in Burkina Faso.
This appearance of theirs in the tournament would surely add to their
experience build up for the Cup of Nations.

So far, Gambia is leading in Group A with 3 points followed by Senegal and
Mauritania with 1 point each, whereas in Group B Sierra Leone leads with 3
points followed also by Guinea and Mali with 1 point each.

Tomorrow Gambia plays with Mauritania in the 1st match while Cape Verde
takes on Senegal in the 2nd.

Nice weekend.

Archi


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:43:52 -0500 (EST)
From: YULBSORE@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <971130004352_-86794784@mrin45.mail.aol.com>

hi

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:49:57 -0500 (EST)
From: YULBSORE@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <971130004956_-690289951@mrin86.mail.aol.com>

hi buharry
i am not sure if you will get this because this is my first time messing with
the
cumputer and i dont know what am doing this is amie secka just saying hi


------------------------------

End of GAMBIA-L Digest 96
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