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Momodou
Denmark
11634 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Aug 2010 : 14:57:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
Momodou, it is sad that, a fifty something year old like you can blatantly misrepresent facts.
Suntu, thank you for the insult.   
What fact did I misrepresent by stating my concern "how you would treat minorities if you were in a position of power"? Where did I mention minority parties? |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2010 : 16:01:00
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| To be honest UDP and its members here did not impress me at all. They seem like they are hiding something. They do not clearly present/express their programs. They avoid debates. One thing they may be good at is funding! When they attempt to participate in debates, they are very childish and they more looking like a football club fans. Their PR skills lacking as they are more like a bully and suffering from their arrogance as 'main opposition'. Halifa Sallah, the smart dude, on the other hand has more confident in himself. He is clearly telling us what they think. Their ideology is more clear. And he is realistic. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 19 Aug 2010 16:03:37 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2010 : 16:30:24
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Janyafara welcome back on board! Also thanks for your comments, views and opinion. However I would like to comment, substantiate on some of your statements, provide opinion and also answer your questions in good faith.
1. You said; "NADD was formed on so many pillars called the Memorandum Of Understanding and if there happen to be a breakdown of one or two of those understandings, it has to be because it was not built on a strong foundation to the acceptance of all party leaders and their followers."
a. NADD was properly established as a Coalition/ALLIANCE and all opposition party leaders gave consent to establish it ON EQUAL BASIS WITHOUT ANY PRE-CONDITION != A FACT BASED ON NADD'S MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING (MOU)! TRUE OR FALSE
b. NADD existed without regard to party size, popularity, majority or minority but based on A COMMON GOAL FOR ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES TO UNITE UNDER ONE BANNER/UMBRELLA AND CONTEST 2006 ELECTIONS! = A FACT AND CLAERLY STATED BY Yankuba Jabang, Editor & Publisher of Senegambia news.com; "To me, and I suppose to many other ordinary Gambians, a 'coalition' of opposition political parties formed under the acronym, NADD, was to contest the 2006 elections in the Gambia. It's no surprise the need was borne out of our collective desire and the 'resolve' of our political leaders in the opposition camp, to rid the Gambia of Yahya Jammeh, the most brutal leader in Africa today."
Time ran out for me and will continue later! |
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Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2010 : 22:09:43
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Isalute you guys kayjatta, Koba ect, Well I have put my self above unnecessary arguements. Though this present debate is educative to me.
One thing is clear you guys blame Ousainou unnessary for Ousainou is just an individual and UDP is a party.Think about this.
As brother keyjatta rightly said he does not know anywhere in the world where a major opposition forms a coalition with other partners who are a bit smaller in size to it.
How was the APRC decleared the winners of previous elections? I think as the IEC said they won by a majority?
How then would NADD be formed on equal footing when we are unfortunately not on equal footing? This was not Darboe's decision to break away from NADD. I want to make this very loud and clear because I was one of the youth leaders at the time. We the followers who were not at the meeting cried foul and Darboe had no choise but bow to our pressure.That is what democracy is all about.
Darboe is a leader but not KING of UDP and am sure all Gambians who love truth would respect Darboe for such decision.
You see those of you who fire bazokas with suntu, I am not going into that with you.Nadd lost its strength because even after the break away and UDP went on its own in the 2006 presidential elections, Gambians still favoured UDP to NADD.
READ BELOW!
Summary of the 22 September 2006 presidential election results
Candidates
Votes
Yahya Jammeh (incumbent)
Alliance for Patriotic Reorientation and Construction (APRC)
264,404
67.33%
Ousainou Darboe
United Democratic Party (UDP)
104,808
26.69%
Halifa Sallah
National Alliance for Democracy and Development (NADD)
23,473
5.98%
Total
392
We could jointly have had about 33% which would have been about half the winner's.Maybe who knows some chose not to vote because of their confusion about the whole matter.
Now my brother keyjatta, you said NADD members had a contract.Yes they had but have you forgotten that there can be an unfair contractual terms in a contract? Much moreevery contract has to be on a meeting of minds unless my lecturers lied to me!Now lets say Ousainou did agree to a MOU and signed on behave of UDP ya? Did you know on what basis he went to the meeting with?Now try and find out Because there was more to this than you know.Ask Halifa what happened before Ousainou came to the meeting.Waa Juwara had an agenda against Ousainou and He was the brain behind the confussion created.Now he has betrayed all and went to join the enemy.I must tell you lets stop throwing Bazokas.I urge my brother suntu to calm down.
You are right keyjatta we don't want another dictatorship in the Gambia after Jammeh.God forbid. But also yes it was in the MOU that a NADD falagbearer would serve for only one term.
Keyjatta can you tell me whether that is in the constitution and if not which we both knew its just an MOU.Have you forgotten contracts can be broken?Do you remember when the APRC government took NADD to court challenging the legality of the formation of NADD.Now ask yourselves who was the government informant within NADD?
I do know certain Gambians who during the time of BABA JOBE used to come to Morney shop to sell stories.
But all that is not yet time to cast the cat out of the bag.We want oppositions to come together so I will not be a party to casting of any bazokas.
But may I ask you are you now telling us that we should help Halifa become president for just a year or a term when majority of Gambians against Jammeh don't want him? |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 00:09:50
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
 "big clunging fist"? Is that how you refer to 25% votes? Democracy requires that you respect minority parties. Even Jammeh understands that. Otherwise, with his 60% over UDP's 25%; we could easily declare the Gambia a one-party state and with only 25% votes you cannot do anything about it...
Actually it is 26% but how about PDOIS's 3%? Democracy also requires that the minority recognise the legitimacy of the majority to lead while they [the minority] follow.
Regards |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 00:32:12
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nyari,
A Daniel has come to judgement.But all that was in the past now.I think the best way forward is to take the matter to the electorates. As primaries under the carpet did not work well with us in the UDP. The decision of the people would determine who they belief best suited to lead them against Jammeh.If PDOIS accepts this, UDP is ready.Infact I belief I have never heard or seen anyone of the Halifarites cast any blame on another member of NADD who left without warning! have we forgotten that one of the members of NADD had left without even a resignation notice to the membership?What has Halifa said about NDAM leader's unceremonious departure and now joining the opponent?
Oh is it all about Ousainou? Then Darboe's absence must be the biggest blow NADD felt because one of the architects of NADD Lamin Waa Juwara I must name so that you guys know,has never been so blamed. My doubts are why has Nadd been so silent about him? |
Edited by - Janyanfara on 20 Aug 2010 00:33:29 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 01:30:26
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There is no need for a primary. The 2006 election is valid until at such time when it shall be overtaken by a subsequent election result and therefore should be the basis upon which everything is built as convention dictates. There is no way the UDP will contest a primary with any opposition party or leader. It would be unconventional and unheard of.
Regards |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 20 Aug 2010 01:46:58 |
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terangba
Egypt
225 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 02:26:14
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There you have it. The UDP supporters are saying no to primaries and brought valid points, i.e. there is no documented history of opposing parties holding a primary. The only question left is: Will PDOIS accept a party lead coalition?
If PDOIS says no to a party lead coalition then there is no need for arguing, let us all vote for APRC.
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God gave men dominion over the beasts and not over his fellow men unless they submit of their own free will. - Napoleon |
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Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 05:40:21
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Santafara you are acting like a little hood rat Masalaha, Only at the bantaba will you meet foul mouth retired Khalifa's of religion engaged in propaganda. Let me reassure you Santafara I have been at this Bantaba for more than a decade if I remember right and I for one cannot tell you which side of the fence Momodou belongs, some think he is all the way APRC. What he beliefs or stands for is none of your goddamn business Santafara. You are the only LYING and manipulative butt wipes here, you have no clue what you stand for or believe in apart from your backward and wayward ways. Suntou let me reiterate this to you people, The NEW GAMBIA has no place for propaganda and tribal politics. Tribalism and the fact that most of you foolish villagers with your pictures associated with your flawed politricking ain't fooling no one here. There once was a time when half baked villagers thought other backward villagers only trusted them since it was part of the indoctrination at the time. Well fast forward to 2010 when Kings took over the show. We might be imaginary and a figment of your twisted imaginations but rest assured we rule this show in cyberspace. Let me tell ya'll whats wrong with the UDP party and how they are afflicted with the same or similar disease kinda like the PPP regime. In 1987 the party decided that they were gonna introduce professionals into the party and give the relics a chance to retire gracefully yet the same politricking made the venture prove futile.
5 of Gambia's wisest men were chosen to help build a vibrant party but as usual tribal politics based on irrelevant issues such as majority rule, mainly based on tribalism and their believe in certain prehistoric ways like my man Demba Baldeh and his ideology that all the leaders of Gambia are supposed to be Village boys, this belief led to the down fall of the PPP regime and caused the biggest split. Take this down and add it to the pages of history bro's, what I am telling you right now can be cashed at any Bank. I hope it was personal to ya'll that 75% of the PPP minister's barely had a high school diploma yet a population of at least 5%-10 percent of qualified or over qualified personell were marginalized in a sense since Mansaship was the order of the day in a supposed democratic secular state. Some Ministers had no high school education yet were Minister's for decades or more, no wonder we went through the dark ages in 30 centuries of total backwardness. If you ask anyone in their right minds rest assured they will reiterate what I just stated and Gambia's biggest problem is identifying what's really important and relevant but just look around all the half baked villagers have started poking their ugly heads and some with no authority whatsoever, believe they will Lock Mighty Moe up so I laughed, that should tell ya'll what the Gambian problem really is and what led to the revolutionary July 22nd. The UDP is no different and is being steered by a group of EX relics of politics who replicated exactly what they were accustomed to and what worked for more than 30 years. How can Darboe state that he was also misled by the Party elites in making crucial decisions. Darboe is an educated man and am pretty sure No One on earth can fool him in writing. It comes back to what I was elaborating on earlier, The problem has nothing absolutely to do with Darboe, he made that clear already , it is the people that hired and chose him as the leader of the party based on calculated tribalist tendencies. When you have a people who stood behind a corrupted system for 30 years with no formal or general qualifications they migrate and evolve into something else hence the UDP became the curse of Gambian Politics, that is what the make up consist of. It is questionable what the UDP agenda is, the leader is in denial and followed by a whole bunch of blind followers. What does the UDP stand for in all reality apart from a Mansaship. Trust me the curse of the PPP and poor decisions by a bunch of tribalist is what seems to haunt the UDP party but I will be the Exorcist. Of course the UDP party has a point they are the majority and in any given situation should be the leaders of any coalition but the fact that OLD men who claimed to be Gambia's finest claimed to have signed papers they barely understood and backed out when the realization was the possibility of Darboe not being chosen as a flag bearer. The problem is not Darboe but the under cover tribalist and cowards hiding and using Darboe as a scape goat to do their dirty jobs. Darboe is NOT the decision maker in the UDP party and thats the difference between the winner and the losers of history..................................................................................................Peace
quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
Momodou, it is sad that, a fifty something year old like you can blatantly misrepresent facts.
It depends what you term as minority. This shows that, you still haven't a glue who the leaders of PDOIS are.
Get real for once and find out whether, Sedia, Halifa and Sam see themselves as minority.
After that, then you can repeate your deliberate demeaning.
Coming to the real issues. If a minority party understands its place, it open doors for larger parties to invite them. But the condesending leaders in PDOIS will actually twist the approaches of UDP and proclaim that, God himself has bestowed destiny on them to take the Gambia out its mess. They will use such open invitation to endlessly try to fabricate plots against UDP supporters with endless editorials and what have you.
This is why, PDOIS is not an entity, that one can go and say welcome in a coalition, they will actually not even respond to you.
You guys have misunderstood the party, hence your continous errors in arriving at wrong conclusions.
Halifa will actually have a field day should Darboe and his team personally visit them and welcome them to a coalition. He will arrogantly belittle them and try to sabotage such moves. This is why, all the efforts have to be done in such way, the leadership of the UDP will never be misrepresented or lied upon.
PDOIS is not party that seeks politics as usual. They wish to brainwash and change the minds of Gambians. This underlying dogma makes them difficult to deal with. Whilst gullible onlookers keep criticising Darboe for not reaching out to them, which is a lie, PDOIS goes on the attack trying to analyse one figure after another, with their bais Foroyaa, thus making coming together impossible.
NRP is larger than PDOIS, however, they realise the normal and usual rout of coalition is a smooth and easy process, not arrogant posturing.
Momodou, to answer your ill-faited concern, we will deal with minority parties, with dignity and deligently. however, should a minority party wish to held us with unnecessary conditions, we will not buy into such double standards. You can interpret that any how you fancy, it is cool.
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I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
Edited by - Moe on 20 Aug 2010 07:49:18 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 08:41:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Janyanfara
Isalute you guys kayjatta, Koba ect, Well I have put my self above unnecessary arguements. Though this present debate is educative to me.....
Darboe the party leader cannot be exonerated from the faults of the party UDP in this case. He was a representative of the party and he signed documents on behalf of the party on the basis that he understood what he was signing. Remember that Darboe is an educated man, a lawyer, therefore he should be held to higher standard of expectation.
There was "a meeting of the minds" because all the participants (signatories) in NADD knew what they were signing. They all knew what the agreement was. You cannot tell me that Darboe, a supposed seasoned attorney, did not know what the agreement was, therefore there was no "meeting of the minds"!
True, contracts can be broken, and defective contracts can even be set aside by a court of law. However, in this case, by deliberately flouting his obligations as a signatory, darboe turned both himself and the UDP into traitors.
Furthermore, the leadership power struggle was not between Darboe and Halifa. It was between Darboe and Omar Jallow. That was where things started to unwind. So your assault on Halifa is out of place! Why don't you attack Omar Jallow, as well?
I am done with this topic. Come 2011, another landslide for Jammeh by the grace of God!
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Edited by - kayjatta on 20 Aug 2010 08:44:29 |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 10:33:13
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The only winner in this endless debate is the APRC and its supporters. All the opposition parties and their supporters and Gambia are all losers in this cry baby cry!!!!
Primaries, No Primaries, Agenda 2011, No Agenda 2011, Party led coalition, fractmented coalition etc. etc all sound like a people who don't know what political direction they want to go!!!
This is absolutely embarassing that so many cool heads and intelligent citizens cannot map out a process all because of egos, inexperience, and just plain lack of consciousness on our national plight....
Come 2011 elections lets see who the blame game will turn to....
Not a single side has moved from their position four years ago. How in the world do we expect to move from A towards B?
Lets stop blaming the other side and start showing each other where we can compromise period... No amount of finger pointing will bring us any solution...
I am honestly embarassed for my country. I thought four years or better even 16 years of dictatorship with our innocent citizens in jail will open our eyes... nop the dark gets darker!!!
Show me the neutral and progressive way and I will follow... until then all am hearing is baby cries and endless execuses...
We were supposed to have better solutions and this is what we have?????? |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 13:04:04
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Janyafara welcome back on board! Also thanks for your comments, views and opinion. However I would like to comment, substantiate on some of your statements, provide opinion and also answer your questions in good faith. I would also qualify certain statements to establish the FACTS by asking from you and readership; WHETHER ITS TRUE OR FALSE ANYTHING THAT IS FROM MY STATEMENTS BELOW FALSE PLEASE POINT IT OUT AS DISTORTION AND MIS-REPRESENTATION
1. You said; "NADD was formed on so many pillars called the Memorandum Of Understanding and if there happen to be a breakdown of one or two of those understandings, it has to be because it was not built on a strong foundation to the acceptance of all party leaders and their followers."
THANKS FOR ACKNOWLEDGING THESE FACTS (IN MY OPINION) AS FOLLOWS:-
a. That NADD was properly established as a Coalition/ALLIANCE and all opposition party leaders gave consent to establish it ON EQUAL BASIS WITHOUT ANY PRE-CONDITION != A FACT BASED ON NADD'S MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING (MOU)! TRUE OR FALSE
b. NADD existed without regard to party size, popularity, majority or minority but based on A COMMON GOAL FOR ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES TO UNITE UNDER ONE BANNER/UMBRELLA AND CONTEST 2006 ELECTIONS! = A FACT AND CLAERLY STATED BY Yankuba Jabang, Editor & Publisher of Senegambia news.com; "To me, and I suppose to many other ordinary Gambians, a 'coalition' of opposition political parties formed under the acronym, NADD, was to contest the 2006 elections in the Gambia. It's no surprise the need was borne out of our collective desire and the 'resolve' of our political leaders in the opposition camp, to rid the Gambia of Yahya Jammeh, the most brutal leader in Africa today." = TRUE OR FALSE
c. SAVE THE GAMBIA DEMOCRACY PROJECT (STGDP) based in U.S.A mobilised the resources (both finacial & moral support), logististics and coordinate ALL THE ACTIVITIES TO ENSURE THATALL OPPOSITION agree on A STRATEGIC COALITION/ALLAINCE UNDER ONE UMBRELLA WITH THE NAME OF NADD! = TRUE OR FALSE
d. UDP never claimed A PARTY LED-COALITION OR DABOE TO LED THE COALITION/ALLIANCE! IN SHORT A PARTY-LED COALITION OR DARBOE TO LEAD WAS NOT ON THE AGENDA? = TRUE OR FALSE
e. UDP/NRP NEVER CLAIMED OR DECLARE THAT THE MAIN REASON TO QUIT OR RESIGN FROM NADD WAS BECAUSE OTHER OPPOSITION PARTIES DID NOT ACCEPT A PARTY-LED COALITION AND DARBOE TO LEAD! = TRUE OR FALSE (ANYONE WHO HAVE PROOF CAN PROVIDE IT PLEASE?)
f. For those uncompromisngly interested in party-led coalition and Daboe given legitimate right to lead ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES UNDER ANY FORM OF COALITION; is it not fair to challenge UDP/Daboe why they didn't demanded a party-led coalition either CONDITIONALLY OR UN-CONDITIONALLY WHEN THERE WAS NEGOTIATIONS TO SET-UP A STRATEGIC COALITION/ALLIANCE UNDER NADD? = TRUE OR FALSE
g. NADD came through the efforts of GAMBIANS BASED IN U.S.A (STGDP) YEARNING IN BRINGING TOGETHER FOR A COALITION/ALLIANCE OR UNITED NATIONAL FRONT AGAINST A.P.R.C/JAMMEH'S RULE? Point b. refers same! IT WAS NOT THROUGH DICTATES OF ANY OPPOSITION PARTY OR OPPOSITION PARTY LEADER; BE IT FROM ANY OF THOSE PARTIES MENTIONED AS SIGNATORIES TO ITS MOU? = TRUE OR FALSE
h. IF ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES AGREED TO CONTEST UNDER ONE UMBRELLA (NADD) AND NOT AS UDP, NRP, PDOIS, NDAM, PPP ETC; THEN REGISTERING NADD IS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT (AS MERGER OF PARTIES)? = TRUE OR FALSE
i. ISN'T IT A BIG NATIONAL DISGRACE AND BETRAYAL AGAINST UDP/NRP HAVING SIGNED MOU IN GOOD FAITH AND THEN BACK OUT TO PURSUE THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL PARTY INTERESTS? = TRUE OR FALSE
THEN Janyafara why did you said" ..if there happen to be a breakdown of one or two of those understandings, it has to be because it was not built on a strong foundation to the acceptance of all party leaders and their followers."
WILL BE BACK! |
Edited by - kobo on 20 Aug 2010 16:35:47 |
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terangba
Egypt
225 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 16:40:37
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Kobo
Your concerns are well noted but it does not change the fact that UDP is the major party and UDP has made it categorically clear that they are leaning toward a party lead coalition. What do you think PDOIS will do/should do?
Do you think a party lead coalition that will serve for five years is the answer?
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God gave men dominion over the beasts and not over his fellow men unless they submit of their own free will. - Napoleon |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 19:41:27
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OH! GAMBIA our homeland
It is a long way ... ...to go
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2010 : 19:57:08
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Momodou, I did not insult. I believe making certain signs and remarks convey redicule and in such case, there is no better option but to appropriately respond in ways that entails what one has in mind.
The reality is, certain statements aren't joke, no matter how one try to put a smile to it. insinuating that, we will be intolerant to minorities is grossly wrong. Since the context of the debate emanates from discussing party politics and quotes that you associated with it translate into a harsh comment.
Hence, I am only making my point in this matter. The ones who cannot stop dwelling in other opposition parties issues must expect to get in return, what they deserve. Thanks |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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