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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 08:50:24
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Touby
According to wiki, UDP is The United Democratic Party is a conservative political party in The Gambia, affiliated to the International Democratic Union. And International Democratic Union is representing ideologues like Thatcher, George Bush, Helmut Kohl, Chirac. I guess we are getting somewhere.
PDOIS is left wing
UDP is right wing
Than why da hell Kayjatta is supporing PDOIS while his hero is George Bush. lol.
UDP like its parent parties; PPP, NCP, GDP, and GPP; has no clearly defined ideology. They may be considered elsewhere as "conservative" but in their recently concluded congress, they described themselves as "socialists" for the first time without giving details of what that means...
PDOIS is the only party in the Gambia with a clear-cut ideology right from the beginning. The rest of the Gambia's oppsotion parties are little more than a combustible mixture of 'crowd and sentiment'... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 29 Jul 2010 08:53:56 |
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toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 11:03:07
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Kay if you are right when you write:"combustible mixture of 'crowd and sentiment'..." and what happens if such a mixture is ignited ? it goes off with a big bang and is then a cloud of smoke and gas that fades into the atmosphere and therefore is no more  |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 29 Jul 2010 11:04:40 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 11:30:29
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Kayjatta
Most likely he will be the biggest fool and the worst president of the 20th century, after what was this US dude in 1970s? That is another topic My confusion/sarcasm was that you support bush (conservative) and pdois (socialist) two different ideologies. But I must admit there is nothing wrong with that. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 11:38:37
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Kayjatta
Most likely he will be the biggest fool and the worst president of the 20th century, after what was this US dude in 1970s? That is another topic My confusion/sarcasm was that you support bush (conservative) and pdois (socialist) two different ideologies. But I must admit there is nothing wrong with that.
Yes Turk! T[:Two different worlds, two different ideologies. Makes sense?  |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 11:46:00
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Kay if you are right when you write:"combustible mixture of 'crowd and sentiment'..." and what happens if such a mixture is ignited ? it goes off with a big bang and is then a cloud of smoke and gas that fades into the atmosphere and therefore is no more
Exactly, Toubab!!! |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 12:15:43
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| That is my point. I would have two different political solutions for Africa and North America. Good to see you agree with me that Gambia has different realities than western world, so there would be different solution to her problems. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 12:19:02
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| Back to PDOIS. I am reading more and more about the leader of PDOIS, he is actually more motivated and and charismatic politician. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 12:34:25
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
That is my point. I would have two different political solutions for Africa and North America. Good to see you agree with me that Gambia has different realities than western world, so there would be different solution to her problems.
Yes, but you have to be cautious that many who advocate for alternative (African) way of solving African problems often totally deny Africans solutions to their problems. They use that rhetoric as a cover for their autocratic tendency.
No two societies are the same, therefore no two societies can use identical methods of solving problems, but the difference in methods is no excuse for violating human rights, freedom and liberty of the citizens... |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 13:24:00
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Janko. I have my opinion. I have my ideals. There are realities. There are others in a team. You always compromise when your ideals and realities conflict. I am very practical and adaptable. I make adjustment when I work with others and if needed to have a consensus. In this topic I am interested in what other political parties say. So far, instead of talking politic parties in Gambia, we have been talking about me.
turk,
well, is not about you ...am just trying to understand your stance, to begin with. Thanks for your explanation and I agree that one has to be flexible.
Do you mean because PDOIS implicates socialism in its name so it has no explanation to do regarding its alternative budget proposition. I think all political parties owe that to the electorate. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 13:31:41
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But why you so much focus on human rights, freedom and liberty of the citizens? Are they the only issues in Gambia? Do you think Gambians care about them so much rather than other priorities. Each time I was in Gambia, I do survey, the most important issues people want solutions are health care, education, unemployment, lack of infrastructure. Why are you obsessed with them so much? How about running water, agriculture, industrialization, child mortality rate. There are more people are dying or suffering due to lack of health care than human rights violations? OK, I do agree about human rights violation, freedom and liberty are important, but there needs to be balance on focus. Because whether your children to be literate or not do have impact on the establishment of democracy in the long run. Democracy requires participants who have education and knowledgeable about political concepts so that they can participate. In Gambia, other than elite which is very small percentage, the participation is limited. It is more like the totalitarian regime of elite. Personally, for my family, peace, security, education, health care and shelter are the most important things. My political activism come after that.
I would expect the parties have programs to address to my needs which are much more than human rights violations and my liberty.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 13:43:27
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Janko
All I was saying by referring 'socialist' in its name that, at least, the name give me an idea what the PDOIS is about. I did not have opportunity to read about their program. I have no clue about their ideology and programs. And I think you are right, they all have to provide alternative budget to show them what is their priorities when it comes to government. Are they focusing on social spending, or growth oriented in investment. The voters worry about more about budget more than everything else as it impacts on their daily life.
When I was younger making more money with no responsibility, I was ultra adam smith dude in terms of fiscal policies. I was so worried about the tax I was paying and even though I am culturally very liberal, I was supporting the conservative party in the name of the fiscal policy. Now, having a child and getting older, I am more worried about social spending, quality of health care, education. My priorities are changed. So in order to make the right decision, the political party must inform me about what they will be doing. Yes, the budget alternative is the most important part of the politics as it has direct impact on our daily life. If any party does not have alternative budget, they fail the basic requirements for being a party that claim to govern.
For example, I want to hear PDOIS to tell us about what they will do in detail. Not only what they do it, how they do it and why:
- Education is our priority, we will shift some of the infrastructure investment budget to education and in 2011, Grade 1, 2012 Grade 2 and by 2020 all grades including Grade 12 will be free for all students. We will collect education tax and those who pay education tax and send students to private schools will get tax credit.
- We will make Serekunda market traffic-free between 8am to 18pm.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 29 Jul 2010 16:29:57 |
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Jack
Belgium
384 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 16:48:49
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Turk,
I do agree. People who are hungry, who haven't access to healthcare, who have to struggle everyday to survive don't care about human rights. They are happy to catch some bisquits trown out from the presidential limousine.
However, as soon as people are educated and don't belong to group mentioned above, they want more that the daily fishmoney. Freedom of speech, freedom of press and other freedoms, (human rights) are very important. The brain drain which is so obvious in the Gambia is a direct result of the policy of the current regime. As long as criticism (freedom of speech) is sanctioned with a free stay at YY's hotel brain drain will go on. And maybe thats what the big man wants to stay in power as long as possible. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 17:22:05
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Jack
Gambian Stats
Primary school enrolment ratio 2003–2008*, net, male: 59
Primary school enrolment ratio 2003–2008*, net, female: 64
Secondary school attendance ratio 2003–2008*, net, male: 39
Secondary school attendance ratio 2003–2008*, net, female: 34
If you are relating education with the political participation. We are talking about only one third of population is attending Secondary school. Democratic participation is very complex as it requires education and knowing political concepts. So we are talking about two thirds of people most likely out of political participation and less likely demand for the rights for the political participation. But I am sure 100 percent of them are interested in survival. Do you think it is a coincidence why diaspora involved in politics, particularly human rights more. Most likely because of their superior educational level and less struggle in survival in western world.
So, political parties must analysis their audience. The agenda of Bantaba may be superficial not reflecting the real story of Gambians. We have a politician who appreciates queen (God save queen), live in UK, appreciates UK but set a political agenda for Gambia. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2010 : 08:04:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Turk,
I do agree. People who are hungry, who haven't access to healthcare, who have to struggle everyday to survive don't care about human rights. They are happy to catch some bisquits trown out from the presidential limousine.
However, as soon as people are educated and don't belong to group mentioned above, they want more that the daily fishmoney. Freedom of speech, freedom of press and other freedoms, (human rights) are very important. The brain drain which is so obvious in the Gambia is a direct result of the policy of the current regime. As long as criticism (freedom of speech) is sanctioned with a free stay at YY's hotel brain drain will go on. And maybe thats what the big man wants to stay in power as long as possible.
Thanks for that response to Turk, Jack. I will also add for Turk to understand that governments do not have to choose between human development (human rights) and physical development (infrastructural dvp). These things, like the two wheels of a bicycle, go together. Unless the Gambian person enjoys unfettered freedoms, liberty, dignity, and security; all the infrastructure will be nothing but castles in the air. Transparency, accountability, effective economic production and management, and ingenuity of ideas requires a free citizenry. In order for govt. policies to be sound and effective, they must be thoroughly and honestly debated and implemented by a free citizenry. It is false to think that you can put the people in chains while you develop the country. Great countries have made that mistake in the past and they have learned their lessons. I do not have to give you examples.
Do not think for a moment that there is economic development in the Gambia. There is none whatsoever. At least after the arrest of Jesus, we now know where the money is coming from, don't we? What we are seeing in the Gambia is just the scramble to build physical structures without providing the means for their sustainability. All the great teachers (including Kayjatta  )are gone. All the doctors are gone. I was just talking to a guy in the Gambia and I inquired about a young doctor friend of mine. I was told that he was long gone to U.K. My point is that all the schools are empty of teachers and resources, all the hospitals are empty of doctors and medicine. Govt. offices are turned into APRC bureaus and NIA cells. Even Kanilai, now a spawling suburb (thanks to Jammeh's welfare) is built on the back of the people without any economic life. Such artficial developments dry up like a lake as soon as the dictator is gone. The crocodiles that feed on the flesh of the tyrant's critics would have been long gone too. Nothing remains except the relics of a long gone dictator... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 30 Jul 2010 08:10:55 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2010 : 08:15:07
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Jack
Gambian Stats
Primary school enrolment ratio 2003–2008*, net, male: 59
Primary school enrolment ratio 2003–2008*, net, female: 64
Secondary school attendance ratio 2003–2008*, net, male: 39
Secondary school attendance ratio 2003–2008*, net, female: 34
If you are relating education with the political participation. We are talking about only one third of population is attending Secondary school. Democratic participation is very complex as it requires education and knowing political concepts. So we are talking about two thirds of people most likely out of political participation and less likely demand for the rights for the political participation. But I am sure 100 percent of them are interested in survival. Do you think it is a coincidence why diaspora involved in politics, particularly human rights more. Most likely because of their superior educational level and less struggle in survival in western world.
So, political parties must analysis their audience. The agenda of Bantaba may be superficial not reflecting the real story of Gambians. We have a politician who appreciates queen (God save queen), live in UK, appreciates UK but set a political agenda for Gambia.
Remember, all these is so after 16 years of APRC... |
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