 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Kitabul Arerr
Gambia
645 Posts |
|
|
toubab1020
12306 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 20:36:31
|
This is more complicated than it at first appears,would a trial by jury work in The Gambia ? probably not, Why ? the defence and the prosecution would have the opportunity to PERHAPS influence prospective jurors with inducements which MAY favour their client,OR the client OR the prosecution COULD also decide to take that course of action bearing in mind that The Gambia is a poor country and if the AVERAGE Gambian is selected for jury duty HE or SHE may be swayed by inducements offered.
Another reason is,in the west JUSTICE is sometimes not seen to be done due to the high paid lawyers highlighting a flaw in the charge or process followed,can a poor man afford such a lawyer ? A good idea yes,but such a system as you envisage must be tailored to meet the needs of the people it serves. I think that my favorite Gambian (Moses Richards ) should be given the job to undertake a full review of the way the law and the courts operate in The Gambia,and devise an honest, sensible, and transparant system that is FAIR. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
 |
|
|
Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 21:57:21
|
 Kitab Oceanic Lads "Ham Ham" is very "mankeh". C'mon now the boy if you asked him has no clue what he is really trying to say. The little man has no clue what difference either selection would have made. His limited education and lack of knowledge is written all over his article. The fact is even with a jury trial if it was a chosen option which could be of no benefit to the accused, Just thinking one will have a fair trial due to a jury trial is just so retarded and outrageous.
If this particular case was tried with a jury, they would have been subjected to strict adherence to courtroom procedural rules and rules of evidence which would not have been very helpful to the defense of Lang and company. The presence of inflammatory statements/ irrelevant arguments and inadmissible evidence in this particular case which the Judge can easily ignore and disregard, In a jury trial regardless if the evidence is inadmissible it could be of a lasting impression on the minds of the jurors and with all the allegations and associations only a foolish man will tend to disagree that these men were in Limbo land and would have been found guilty by association anyways.
Most cyber fools don't seem to understand the implications surrounding jury trials yet they have a clear understanding of the sympathetic nature of the average citizen and hoping it could play a role in undermining the very system set up to dispense justice. In a jury trial in my opinion their fate would have been a foregone conclusion right form the get go. The jury is bound by strict rules of evidence and based on the evidence is what their judgement is relied upon. Finding an unfair jury with a population of 1.5 inter related people will be the most interesting aspect of it all.
First and foremost The jury would have been bound by very strict rules of admissible evidence and in this case they had a poor defense anyways, if you ask me, Just saying that the evidence was derived from thieves and liars does not mean it's inadmissible. These were the very people involved so how do you disregard that. For his arguement that Ebrima Marreh was planted by the state at Langs house is not only laughable but it goes to prove how ignorant Oceanic Lad is regarding the dispensation of justice and a fair trial.
The same Ebrima Marreh that was caught in Farrafenni at a military installation, arrested and due to Langs involvement and several others was later FREED. Whether he is a dumb ass or mentally unstable is irrelevant. You people have an excuse for everything, Is Lang a very Stupid Man I ask? Ebrima Marreh told Lang he was his NEPHEW, Langs Defense is Jola's due to their culture ,they don't visit their Sisters You people really have no shame whatsoever and a waste of time and patience.
Well I will try not to stray away from what I was elaborating on so lets get back to why this case whether tried by a jury or a judge would have been subjected to the same interpretations, As complex as this case was, a trial by the judge was the best case scenario. Due to the fact civilians are involved was quite possibly the reason why it's even in the courts otherwise this should have been a military tribunal, This case has no emotional appeal for a jury trial and would not have yielded a different ruling.
Oceanic Lad is missing a very important point which is the fact that it's not based on the juror's opinion but the evidence presented.His argument is flawed Kitab and so is yours...............................................................Peace
quote:
Originally posted by Kitabul Arerr
Is Jury Trial long overdue in The Gambia, in regards to capital crimes? The debate's been started by Oceanic Lad, New York City @ http://www.freedomnewspaper.com/Homepage/tabid/36/mid/367/newsid367/5422/Gambia-A-call-for-a-Jury-Trial-Constitutional-Amendment-Sought/Default.aspx
I totally agree with Oceanic Lad. It's the right thing to do inother for fair trials in The Gambia to prevail. Mercenary judges have too much powers within Gambian courts. Would the recent treason trials been more fair with a jury of their "peers" seated? Yes, in my opinion too.
|
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
Edited by - Moe on 18 Jul 2010 22:00:58 |
|
|
|
Kitabul Arerr
Gambia
645 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 22:44:37
|
What's more retarded? Having a mercenary judge, solo, decide capital cases, than having a jury trial, chosen from one's peers? I choose the later. Why? because it's more fair!
I knew that "Moe The Sentry", would jump all over this post, but Oceanic Lad has a point here, and it's called "one for all, and all for one", not "one for one", period.
A jury would have laughed at one of the evidence submitted, e.g. that 300+ mercenaries, lol!, trained in a foreign land, without an iota of evidence, and not corroborated from that country's officials. Not to mention the numerous ludicrous discrepancies..............................................................
You guys are underestimating the intelligence of the Gambian people, period. |
The New Gambia - Stronger Together! |
|
|
|
Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 23:18:48
|
It's called a conspiracy Kitab, Most criminal activities cannot be proven as most would like. It's unimaginable that the 1981 coupist also trained in a different country without anyone knowing or having knowledge of their activities till they struck.The question remains why was Kukoi so fascinated with Guinea Bissau and all the conspirators. Your argument is still baseless and lacks substance, you mean to say you rather have a biased jury a jury made up of your Auntie, Neighbors, relatives rather than an unbiased so called mercenary Judges in lack of better words since they seem to be far from that....................................................................Peace quote:
Originally posted by Kitabul Arerr
What's more retarded? Having a mercenary judge, solo, decide capital cases, than having a jury trial, chosen from one's peers? I choose the later. Why? because it's more fair!
I knew that "Moe The Sentry", would jump all over this post, but Oceanic Lad has a point here, and it's called "one for all, and all for one", not "one for one", period.
A jury would have laughed at one of the evidence submitted, e.g. that 300+ mercenaries, lol!, trained in a foreign land, without an iota of evidence, and not corroborated from that country's officials. Not to mention the numerous ludicrous discrepancies..............................................................
You guys are underestimating the intelligence of the Gambian people, period.
|
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
|
|
|
Kitabul Arerr
Gambia
645 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 23:38:24
|
I'm not surprised, "Moe The Sentry", with your argument, beating about the bush, full of sound and fury (echo chamber!), refering to a totally unassociated event, i.e. 1981 coupist, to justify your argument, just for the sake of it, is hillarous! Why is one mercenary judge more capable to pass fair judgement, than twelve Gambian citizens, under oath?
Lets not play hide and seek(noobuwante)on this one. This is not child's play......................................lol! |
The New Gambia - Stronger Together! |
|
|
|
Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 23:44:56
|
LOL you are the one playing hide and seek. the 1981 coup was a classic example, Who trained them and what camp where they trained at? You have to be a nyamato to think that real mercenaries leave a trace as to where their training grounds are located or where the trainee's have moved to. A Gambian lies best Under Oath if you never knew but just tell him the cops are coming and see what happens....................................Peace quote:
Originally posted by Kitabul Arerr
I'm not surprised, "Moe The Sentry", with your argument, beating about the bush, full of sound and fury (echo chamber!), refering to a totally unassociated event, i.e. 1981 coupist, to justify your argument, just for the sake of it, is hillarous! Why is one mercenary judge more capable to pass fair judgement, than twelve Gambian citizens, under oath?
Lets not play hide and seek(noobuwante)on this one. This is not child's play......................................lol!
|
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
Edited by - Moe on 18 Jul 2010 23:46:06 |
|
|
|
Kitabul Arerr
Gambia
645 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 00:10:21
|
Don't fool yourself, Moe, thinking you'll be able to evade Jammeh's wrath
with sweet talk and praises, being falsely accused. When that time comes (God forbid!!!),
you'll pray that 12 people (apostles?) of your peers, will be deciding your fate
rather than one mercenary judge with dubious credentials. Say AlleluJah!!! |
The New Gambia - Stronger Together! |
|
|
|
Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 00:24:25
|
Once again I totally disagree Kitab, Tell me one person that was falsely accused. Just please tell me one person that was falsely accused of anything. I Moe will sing no mans song bro bro, I stick to the facts and I ain't playing hide and seek to be evading the wrath of a genius. Your accusations once again are baseless, name one judge serving in the Judiciary with dubious credentials, that is total nonsense my friend. I already know that a jury of 12 apostles will not render a fair trial in Gambia. My over all plan is not to be engaged in criminal activities to be part of an inquiry...........................................Peace quote:
Originally posted by Kitabul Arerr
Don't fool yourself, Moe, thinking you'll be able to evade Jammeh's wrath
with sweet talk and praises, being falsely accused. When that time comes (God forbid!!!),
you'll pray that 12 people (apostles?) of your peers, will be deciding your fate
rather than one mercenary judge with dubious credentials. Say AlleluJah!!!
|
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
|
|
|
Kitabul Arerr
Gambia
645 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 01:01:09
|
Whatever, one, two, many rightly or falsely accused whould be better off being judged by a jury of their peers, rather than by a mercenary judge, period.
Being "The Sentry" you are, Moe, you're looking over the barbed wire fence, whilst I'm looking from within. The harm done with injustice is beyond your scope. You're missing the points right under your nose. Try to be objective for once, GDIt!!! |
The New Gambia - Stronger Together! |
|
|
|
Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 01:05:12
|
Total disagreement once again Kitab, it does not make much of a difference trust me on this. I prefer to have Nigerian and and foreign judges presiding over cases anyways. Gambians in general have proven untrustworthy.................................Peacequote:
Originally posted by Kitabul Arerr
Whatever, one, two, many rightly or falsely accused whould be better off being judged by a jury of their peers, rather than by a mercenary judge, period.
Being "The Sentry" you are, Moe, you're looking over the barbed wire fence, whilst I'm looking from within. The harm done with injustice is beyond your scope. You're missing the points right under your nose. Try to be objective for once, GDIt!!!
|
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
Edited by - Moe on 19 Jul 2010 01:42:58 |
|
|
|
kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 08:56:26
|
I doubt that jury trial can fix the Gambia's broken legal system, as argued by 'Oceanic Lad' in the Freedom newspaper.
First of all his argument that the "jury decides punishment" in a jury trial is not entirely accurate. In almost all capital cases, the judge prescibes punishment based on law, although the jury makes the conviction based on facts. So the mercenary judges will still have a chance to serve their master!!!
Secondly the Gambia's legal system cannot be redeemed without first redeeming the political situation in the country. As matters stand today, just like judges, magistrates, National Assembly members, there will be no impartial, independent-minded jury in the Gambia. Political standardization and military-style discipline and loyalty to the Sheikh professor and his govt. is what is required of every Gambian.Out of fear for their safety and or subtle politicization, any jury that is impanelled in the Gambian courts will have no option but to serve as another govt. operative.
Thirdly it is important to note that the jury system is not without problems also. The jury is largely comprised of lay people, who often have no clue what the law is. Also the jury selection (and instruction)process could be complex where both the prosecution and the defense attorneys could dismiss certain juries whose political or social beliefs are not favorable to their client. In the highly illitrate Gambia, where family structures are closely knit, I strongly doubt that jury trials will be very successful.
In the U.S. the defendant can elect (choose) between a jury or bench trial (trial by judge), and some defendants opt for trial by judge instead of jury trial.
Fourthly since jury trials are effectively trials by the public (the jury is selected from a pool of ordinary people in the community), I douibt that many Gambians would be enthusiastic about taking part in many of these trump up and politically and socially controversial cases...
Lastly, I have to say (without going into details) that I personally feel that the defense attorneys could have done a better job; but perhaps it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.
|
Edited by - kayjatta on 19 Jul 2010 09:09:15 |
|
|
|
dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 10:19:10
|
Jury trials does not work in a corrupt judicial system. In fact in the face of intimidation, arrest and torture which Gambian Juror in his or her right mind will sit in a court of activists loyal State Judges and try to deliver a fair verdict..
I think this is more of a fantasy than realistic call to constitutional amendment... just like the same fantasy we have for allowing Gambian Diaspora to vote like the Guineans did...
Besides, do not expect a rubber stamping parliament who are just there to collect their pay checks to take on a constitutional amendment - one seen to contradict the wishes and aspirations of the regime....
I still predict the sentencing to death of these people is a bluff designed to send a message to Gambians. It doesn't and will not work. We have lost too much for us to turn back at this point...
Constitutional change or not we are continuing the pressure on this regime and its blinded advocates....
No condition is permanent period!!!! |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 10:54:08
|
Thanks, dBaldeh
Please, help me understand the statement;
"... just like the same fantasy we have for allowing Gambian Diaspora to vote like the Guineans did..."
|
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
|
|
|
Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 11:03:00
|
In fact trial by jury was on the books as a constitutional right of defendants who are charged with certain offences such as murder and treason but they couldn't get it started. The only person who invoked this right is Lawyer Ousainu Darboe, and this eventually forced the state to repeal it all together. In any case I don't think trial by jury is feasable in the Gambia. It will be open to abuse, nepotism and corruption. What we need is a robust and independent Judicial Service Commission filled with people of high intergrity, an activist Bar Association, and a government that seeks to preserve and safeguard the independence of the judiciary. Without these, forget it.
Regards |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 19 Jul 2010 12:06:23 |
|
|
|
toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 11:58:15
|
KitabulArerr.
It would appear that your idea would not work in The Gambia,not because it is not a good one but because of other social and political facets that exist in The Gambia of today,has what you have read in reply to your initial posting made you modify your original thoughts on this? |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
