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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 21:12:38
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Let me simplify so you understand. Think about the following.
Is UK-UDP an organization operating in UK?
----If Yes: Is it UK organization?
-------- If yes: Does Gambian Government has any jurisdiction over?
------------ If no: If there is another organization that Gambian Government has no jurisdiction, since you don't like Taliban I will give another example, i.e. Kolombian Herb Lover association; can they send money to a political party in Gambia?
What mechanism to govern the political funding by organizations out of Gambia? (That is my legal question)
Is there any issue political funding from a country out of Gambia in terms of ethics of Politics? (That is my political question)
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 21:17:16
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"ethics of Politics?"
I can answer that TURK there are none.
The rest is a bit technical although your thinking in your last posting appears to be clear and simple  |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 14 Jun 2010 21:18:44 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 21:24:09
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Touby
Wheather you like it or not, and having very pessimist view on politics, somebody has to deal with the politics. :) The mistake Senegambia was: reading my post with his prejudieced opinion about me. He or she was focusing on the messenger rather than the message.
Let me simplify my argument in simple terms.
What controls the political parties funding by foreign resources?
Is there any concern political party funding receiving money from outside resources?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 22:15:02
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Fair and unambiguous questions,but the thing is will the answers,if given,be simple and clear as the questions OR "long letters and mere political rhetoric."
I borrow a quotation from another topic(http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9185&whichpage=4)
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 22:38:35
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turk,
your query is only valid if there is a state funding system for political parties and that would not include party members’ financial support. Only then, in my opinion, are ethical aspects of other sources of funds valid. But, if there is no state funding system in place then it is unethical to regulate private sources of funds to political parties. Moreover, the UDP-UK is an organization of Gambians, not Gambians with British citizenship sympathizing with UDP. They are not equal to any organization from anywhere in the world.
Lastly, if Gambian organizations in UK or USA or anywhere in the world can help in other areas of development, like building schools, or providing other forms of support to Gambia. Why can’t they support a political party financially?
Your query is only valid if there where a funding system for political parties in Gambia, like in Turkey, until that is clarified, it would be only gossip. Which, our fellow Bantaba member donors want less of, they are tired of just talking, and that’s why they are doing.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 23:22:57
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Janko
Again. In terms of legal view, my question is valid regardless there is state funding or not. There must be a legal framework for political campaign funding from outside resources. From the political view, my question is also valid regardless there is state funding or not. The possibility of outside influence is very risky especially countries like Gambia where wealth is really a concern (Here again my usual wealth argument).
Restrictions of funding from outsider sources are very common in the world. I remember there was a talk about during Obama election campaign. You said, ‘in your opinion’, which is why I asked the question, allowing other opinions as well for healthy argument. How would I know someone would suspect me to have a sneaky hidden agenda to brainwash the members of Bantaba who supposedly have no thinking ability about the Talibanism.
UDP – UK being organization by Gambians does not mean anything in terms of legal perspective. I can open an organization in Afghanistan named “Gambian Democracy Fund” and fund a Gambian political party with the ideological influence. Or what can stop me donating money to a political party. And there is nothing Gambian Government can do unless there is a legislation controlling/restricting funding from outside sources. How the controlling would occur, for example (Just brainstorming): The Gambian Consulate in London would review the list of the members of UDP – UK and verify their citizenship. They would review the donations, receipts, accounting etc. Verify the constitution of the organization, and then they would confirm the relevancy if it is legit to make donation to Gambian political parties.
Let me continue to be the devil advocate. What if international corporation i.e. BP make donations to the party to ease the 'environmental policies' of the party. Or a WMD company to influence the political party. Or mining companies. Timber companies.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 14 Jun 2010 23:39:46 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 00:03:06
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Turk,
Will you please take this weak strings of whatever to the scrap yard. Who are you preaching legality? If you are serious about unlawful conduct, the most unlawful person is there in Gambia needing your service.
You seem to play like people can't tell difference between colours. Do you know the composition of those calling it UDP-UK or other formations? May be, among them, there are those capable of teaching you better legal sense.
For now, since you already know that there is a Gambian organisation that openly donated an amount for the purpose stated, your best place is UK law makers and enforcement agents. Go to the nearest legal contact point and report about what you call whatever.
Who says these people had intention to associate any of those deadly elements you bring up? For anything, it is you who signposts the other direction. It is therefore your full responsibility.
Come up with legal tools to handle this issue. Where is the crime? Ask Yaya Jammeh where he excavates all the diamond and gold to do whatever he is doing. If what Yaya does is no crime, how much crime is there with decent people using their funds for what they believe and doing it so open?
Don't this Gambian organisation not know their legal obligations operating as decent people anywhere in the wide world.
On occasions I have mentioned your rather whatever treatment of Gambian matters and that is now very much evident.
How dare you think so low, Turk?
Go to the laws of Gambia and UK and file a suit. I would not imagine the organisation on this occasion requiring your legal advice or rather coarse surfacing.
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Karamba |
Edited by - Karamba on 15 Jun 2010 00:06:26 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 00:27:08
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turk,
you are no devil´s advocate, but one making a “mountain out of a termite hill”.
So, tell me, how democratic is it to control the source of funding political parties without putting in place a state funding system.
I understand your worries but they are only realistic if the parties are getting subsidies from the state, like the examples you gave, Turkey, Canada etc.
turk, am more worried about how to reed Gambia off drug cartels than finding fault with the UDP-UK´s well intended gesture
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 00:47:52
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Janko,
Don’t worry about Turks. I don't know who told him we have to be registered before we can operate here in the UK. I think he is bit naive. We are a Gambian organisation which under UK's Human Rights Act of 1998 has the right to freedom of Political Association and Assembly, and we are certainly having good time enjoying this inalienable right here and with gratitute. ''God save the Queen''
The Gambian constitution also provides for not only full participation of Gambians overseas in the political process but also the right to vote in any given election. Unfortunately the latter is being denied to us by the ruling APRC for political reasons.
The UK is a free country [not an autocracy] where the rules of registration applies only to businesses and charity organisations and even in that case, they are deliberately made relax and easy to meet that anybody can establish a business or charity organisation in the UK. Nonetheless, the UDP-UK is neither a business entity nor a charity organisation but a pure political organisation. It is also worth mentioning that among UDP-UK membership are several Gambian solicitors.
I must say though, I find the Taliban connotation very offensive and I hope that will be withdrawn. I don’t care about the rest of his [turks] comments for it is pure nonsense that does not worth my comment.
Kind regards
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 15 Jun 2010 01:03:52 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 00:53:51
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Karamba
You have no clue whatsoever. When I read your posts, I feel like I am reading something from 10 years old. I have not made any comments about UDP - UK as an organization or no comments on any individual's capability. I don't even make any accusation. You proved one more time you have no clue what is discussed here. You are one ignorant wannabe, has no idea what is being discussed.
Let me re-write
quote:
Can political organization exist out of Gambia according to political party laws? That would be nice to get some information on this.
So my argument has two parts. Legal argument: Can a political party in Gambia get funds from other countries? I.e. Can they get fund from Taliban?
Political Argument: Should parties be allowed to get funding from foreign countries?
The post is about the political party funding scheme in terms of legal and political view. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 01:06:34
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No matter how you put it Turk, all is up to you. God forbid that I allow my self be marked by you.
Ten (10) years is too much. Mark it down further below. I do not need your assessment. You are just playing far too low and need picking up. You have more serious problems at hand.
It does not matter to me if you consider that I have no standard at all. Once it comes clear to me that you get the message and could not contain it, then I know your limitations. That is proven all around. No clue, is that how you think of making a score? Come on Turk, try another trick. Dream about clues. |
Karamba |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 01:07:57
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Nyarikangbanna
quote:
The Gambian constitution also provides for not only full participation of Gambians overseas in the political process but also the right to vote in any given election.
- I already check the constitution. There is no such reference about the donations. One needs to correct me if I am wrong. If needed i can provide the constitution of Gambia. However, if there is a law i.e. Political parties legislation that is something i am interested in. Besides, I am not disputing your right about political participation. What is it wrong with you dude?
- This Nyarikangbanna, like Karamba, also has no clue what is raised here. It talks about UK law. That is not the question silly party official who has no clue what is being discussed here. It is Gambian laws and regulation is being discussed here. Talk about Gambian law. Not the UK. The questions is not about this organization in terms of UK. Like I said these people have no knowledge about politics and they are trying to be wannabe politicians.
It needs to explain how the taliban comment is offensive. Like I said, this party official wannabe has no clue what is said.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 15 Jun 2010 01:19:18 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 01:14:57
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Janko
My worries exist (foreign influence) whether parties getting subsidies or not. If there is lack of government subsidies [you come up], than there needs to be one in my opinion. Hey, at least, one outcome out of this discussion due to my valid question.
“There is a need for government subsidies for political party for the fair competition.”
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 01:16:19
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Turk,
On 22 July 1994, Laws of Gambia fell to the ground. There was a case of rape by gun men; leading them, lieutenant Yaya Jammeh.
Turk, if you are serious about LEGALITY in Gambia, ask Yaya Jammeh what he has done with remains of the Laws he raped, maimed, and murdered?
Gambian Laws are dead and that is why so much drug paves broader entry avenues with sleeping police men saluting ghost high court judges.
Does that make any sense? If not dig on. |
Karamba |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 01:17:11
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Nyarikangbanna
quote:
The Gambian constitution also provides for not only full participation of Gambians overseas in the political process but also the right to vote in any given election.
- I already check the constitution. There is no such reference. One needs to correct me if I am wrong. If needed i can provide the constitution of Gambia. However, if there is a law i.e. Political parties legislation.
- This Nyarikangbanna, like Karamba, also has no clue what is raised here. It talks about UK law. That is not the question silly party official who has no clue what is being discussed here. It is Gambian laws and regulation is being discussed here. Talk about Gambian law. Not the UK. The questions is not about this organization in terms of UK. Like I said these people have no knowledge about politics and they are trying to be wannabe politicians.
It needs to explain how the taliban comment is offensive. Like I said, this party official wannabe has no clue what is said.
Ok, whatever. I leave you to labour under your own delusions.
Kind regards
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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