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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Jan 2010 : 00:25:00
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| Gainde, brillaint. Have a safe and happy trip. Thanks for the link as well. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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gainde
Sweden
117 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2010 : 07:29:14
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| Thanks Suntou. Can you ask Jali Foday Musa when you speak to him next to reward us(free cds maybe) for the interest in translating his deeply coded song. I can remember chatting with a relative of his in the Gambia several years ago and She told me Foday Musa when asked about his joker song responded 'Ngha ming bee fo jee, faloo taa samba noo la' (meaning: the lyrics of the song is a too heavy load for one donkey to carry on its back). |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2010 : 12:27:09
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Indeed gainde, I spoke with him over your plans. he said, that will be a tall order. The Mandinka he sang was a farming song dating back to pre-colonial times. Mandinka, Fula, wollof has change slightly since. He said, he will be happy to see your efforts. and by the way, he is also working on a material which is even older than the Joker! But I will try convincing him to help us with some parts of the song. Kay jatta is seriously anticipating the meanings.
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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toubab1020
12312 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2010 : 21:57:13
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Thanks for that, Music very good, but I cannot understand the words,look forward to that when its completed,I can understand that it will be quite a job,words cannot just be changed for words,meanings are often different,so it will take some thought to make sense in another language,take it easy and don't knock yourself out on the first few days.
I will go to the shop and buy some gunpowder,a cup of sugar and kerry in the meantime 
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2010 : 22:23:32
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quote:
[i] Kay jatta is seriously anticipating the meanings.
I am really... |
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gainde
Sweden
117 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2010 : 12:14:03
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| Second day in Gambia and as it looks like the first part of the translation should hit the net around Sunday. Kayjatta, hold your horses, will you? Atleast wait till Toubabou has served the 'lewal' as she is busy brewing, i guess. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2010 : 13:16:32
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Gainde,
have a nice stay and look out for an upcoming group WULI BAND, if time allows ... |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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gainde
Sweden
117 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2010 : 16:23:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Gainde,
have a nice stay and look out for an upcoming group WULI BAND, if time allows ...
Thanks Janko. Think I may already know a few members of the Band as they reside in Sukuta and I grew up there too. |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2010 : 13:12:55
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Gainde, take your time. Kay have to wait for you to settle down a bit. Enjoy your time.
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Momodou
Denmark
11738 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2010 : 14:11:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
Kay, Foday Musa Suso has live in U.S since you were in primary 6. since 1979 to be precise. He speak a mix of Mandingka dialect, some of it cassamance or Kabbuu..............
Suntu, are you sure it was in 1979? I know a fact that he arrived in the USA on 28th of september 1977. Suso's biography is at: http://www.fmsuso.com/biography.html
The spoken Mandinka is always different from the one used by Kora musicians when singing.
I wonder how much you know Jali Musa or how long you stayed in your own area in the Gambia but Jali Musa speaks the dialect of Wuli Mandinka.
His form of playing the Kora and singing is that of the provinces; he can play both the East and Western styles (East = Mali & West = Cassamance/Guinea Bissau/Gambia).
I will take my hat off for anyone who can translate the Jokaa song to English including Jali Musa himself. There are phrases (proverbs) in the song that can have many meanings and will only sound meaningless to anyone who does not know the deep rooted culture of Jokaa. Jokaa singers are an extinct race.
I know Jali Musa for almost 30 years and have informed him about this thread. He will send a rejoinder in due time. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2010 : 17:18:11
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Momodou, Jali foday's spoken Mandinka i referred to is the Jokaa song not his everyday Mandinka. I read his biography as well about an year ago.
I know him only through his music and I thought you are aware of that. We speak but only on cultural and far as his heritage is concern, nothing more nothing less.
His travel date i think was 1977 as you opined, my error in stating 1979.
I know where Foday Musa hail from, i have been there couple of times, i can also speak their Wulli dialet quiet well too.
But the Timpoli who use to travel to the Gambia, from oral history we are told usually comes from Cassamnce and Bissau.
A village i did my primary school was a regular spot for them we were told.
farmers like Kamang Sanneh, Kun Fili Banta, etc are fondly remembered by some elders in 1980s.
But if you listen to FM Suso's Joka song, you will notice it is in a variance of Mandinka dialets which can be comprehended by good speakers of Mandingo. But the song itself is not an ordinary song per say, it is coded in riddles, thus the numerous Mandingo phrases and proverbs. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Momodou
Denmark
11738 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2010 : 12:06:15
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The following respons is from Jali Foday Musa Suso.
------------quote----------
 Momodou here is my response to Suntu:
Suntu, I know you do act like you are a scholar in Manding history, but I know for sure you do don’t know much about the Mandinka history, and special the Jalia tradition. Stay away from trying to explain the Jalia practice or different Jalia style of songs. You compared my singing style to that of Cassamance because you are listening to my Jooka singing, which is not the traditional Mandinka griot song.
Jooka is a traditional Mandinka farming song where a singer accompanies himself with a single bell; no drums or any other instrument but just voice. Jooka is a typical Mandinka traditional farming song which is dying out. That is why when I release this cassette in West Africa it became an instant hit.
I want you to know that Jooka tradition didn't start in Gambia, so you don’t have to compare my Jooka words to Gambian Mandinka; it’s originated from Kabou in Guinea Bissau and to Pakau Cassamance this is why when you listen to my jooka singing the words have to sound exactly like kabou or pakau mandinkas, because that’s were the jooka come from, but its doesn’t mean that all my kora styles are like the jooka.
In fact the way I play the kora covers the whole kora region of West Africa, meaning that I can tune my kora and play Tilibo (Eastern) styles from Mali and Guinea; songs like Sunjata ketta, Tramakang, Tutu, Duga, Samory Touray, and it will sound like I was born and rise in Tillibo, or turn round and play the Tiliji (Western) styles of Gambia Camassance and Guinea Bissau songs like Kelefa, Chedo, Ansumachine, Jimbasingo, Kumbusoora, Bamba Borjang, Tamba Jammeh and so on. The reason I can do that is because kora players from Bolongo kono when learning the music learn the songs call tilibo or eastern songs from Mali and Guinea, so a player who learn it from Bolongo kono if he is lucky and have a good mind in music, after moving to Kombo area will be able to learn and play western styles too. In my own case, when I moved to Kombo Brikama in 1971 I started playing in Mali and Guinea styles during ceremonies, people could not understand and women could not dance to my songs because they did not understand the style. At that time there were some famous Tilliji styles and nobody listen to you if cannot play those songs; like Chedo, Kumbusoora, Ansumachine, Yeyengo, Kurambisaan, Musubalanto, Mama Manneh, and so on, then quickly I change my style from Tillibo to Tilliji. After that then everybody knew me in the West, they call me Jalinding but after that period I didn’t stay long in Gambia I left the country. So is not easy to clearly explain the Jalia practice, and specially the kora music.
I met many ethnomusicologists from all over the world trying to explain the kora Jalia practice but never be correct, so the guy who you said can translate my Jooka words into English is impossible, he cannot do it and he won’t find any one who can do it.
http://www.fmsuso.com
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A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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Momodou
Denmark
11738 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2010 : 12:42:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
..the Timpoli who use to travel to the Gambia, from oral history we are told usually comes from Cassamnce and Bissau...
I believe you meant to say the jooka singers here?
 Hard working young men who are good with the hoe are the ones the farming communities used to call "Timpo". These men used to compete who is the best with the hoe and the song is about them.
The name Timpo in Mandinka or Timpoli (plural) refers to the African Anteater also called Aardvark. Timpo is a pig like animal with very strong front legs with claws. It is an exceptionally fast digger.
"Aside from digging out ants and termites, the aardvark also excavates burrows in which to live: temporary sites are scattered around the home range as refuges, and a main burrow is used for breeding. Main burrows can be deep and extensive, have several entrances and can be as long as 13 meters. The Aardvark changes the layout of its home burrow regularly, and from time to time moves on and makes a new one; the old burrows are then inhabited by smaller animals like the African Wild Dog and Porcupines. Only mothers and young share burrows. If attacked in the tunnel, it will seal the tunnel off behind itself or turn around and attack with its claws."
By the way, there used to be a ferry at the Sapu Agricultural Station in CRD called "Timpo". Timpo was the biggest ferry in the late 60s and mid 70s. It used to carry 12 fully equipped tractors for ploughing at one time. The ferry had been used to transport tractors of the ploughing team in the CRD. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2010 : 13:59:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Momodou
The following respons is from Jali Foday Musa Suso.
.............
I thought my response to Jali Foday was actually misinterpreted. He is blaming me for saying things he himself repeated in the above statement is very interesting. All I said is that, Jooka song compose of diverse range of Mandinka which goes all the way to Cassamance, Bissau (Kabuu) and Gambia. Jali Fodau reppeated the exact same statements.
I rest my case.
I personally believe no one is a custodian of any descipline individually. The jali community have difference of opinion over wide range of historical issues and the Timpoli Jooka song is no difference.
I never said anything which Jali Foday has contradicted, he should read my words again or ask me to explain instead of saying I am pretending to be an expert of griout whatever. I spoke with him over this song and we cleared the air over an apparent misunderstanding, but for him attack me over this issue is strange. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2010 : 14:08:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Momodou
quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
..the Timpoli who use to travel to the Gambia, from oral history we are told usually comes from Cassamnce and Bissau...
I believe you meant to say the jooka singers here?
Hard working young men who are good with the hoe are the ones the farming communities used to call "Timpo". These men used to compete who is the best with the hoe and the song is about them........
Momodou, Timpoli are as you describe which is the same has i said. Jooka is the song for Timpoli.
Timpoli are men who travel from place to place in search of payable work. Hence i don't confuse the song with the people. This is an unnecessary controversy, i didn't say anything wrong apart from the year Jali Foday went to America which is minor as far the song and the people it is compose for are concern.
In fact, the song has been translated halve way by PA Modou (gainde), I am now thinking of backing off this subject. I don't want to annoy or cause offense by a trivial matter like this. I am doing my own slow tranlation which will be compared with that of Pa Modou who is busy in the Gambia, but since the song composer is involve and a small misunderstanding is building up, unnecessary animosity may result.
There a thousand and one mandingo cultures to explore. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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