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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 01:16:45
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Karamba, I understand exactly your point of view,yes we have many greedy people in the UK,some are politicians, some are going to court, quite true,The main reason why people go into politics here in the UK (quite correct, this is where I live)is that they want power and money,there may be some who want to do the best they can for their fellow man,very few I suspect,there is one difference between the UK and Gambia,that is if the people are dissatisfied with the party in power at the general election they can throw the MP out by not voting for him,he is then unemployed,and the companies for which he was a "consultant" or director is not going to want him,he has no power anymore,so he has NO MONEY.as you say the press has a great deal to do with keeping politicians in check.
Tribalism Nepotism are bad,not all confined to Africa, in ENGLAND since Blair and Brown have been prime ministers I have notices a vast increase in the number of people in senior positions in politics and industry who speak with a prounounced scottish accent !!
It is true that in the UK all the nations wealth is not held in trust by one man.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 21 Apr 2010 01:18:23 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 09:28:13
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I don't put much value on democracy, and I think democracy is obstacle for Gambia as it does not fit as Gambia does not understand, have history and capability for democracy anyway. Islam or Communist model maybe a better fit for Gambia. Gambia should only focus on the rule of law, stability and economic development. I don't mind too much about the lack of democracy. The first priority of Gambia should be economic development. Wastefulness will continue as Gambia does not have skills and knowledge to be effective government. How many government officials have university degree? How many civil servants have university degree. So your ideals good but not realistic for Gambia. I talked to top managerial level of professional in Gambia, they are skills and knowledge are laughable.
I am comparing Gambia currently to the neighboring countries and Gambia actually is not bad. They are more 'effective' and 'efficient' - your pretty words. Many diaspora ppl are very critical on Jammeh, I am not. I think he brings value.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 21 Apr 2010 09:30:26 |
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Momodou
Denmark
11730 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 18:07:50
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You are really behaving like a Turk again. You should at least have respect for The Gambian constirution. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 18:29:26
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Turk playing devils advocate again 
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 20:09:50
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turk
It is clear that you have your own agenda which the betterment of Gambia is not a part. Gambia has no use for those that would not clean their house before pointing a finger at another house and shall never pay attention to delirious well-wishers in their ecstasy.
You are blinded by your only motivation, “diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians. Many diaspora ppl are very critical on Jammeh, (you) are not…” That explains why you shoot and ask afterwards …, with your misplaced “facts”. You would say “the truth hurts”… really?
Because your stance is negative and generalising you attack before clearly understanding the issue. But, with that off your rationale, just for a minute, I think you know not all critique is negative and ill willed, but mostly positive and well meaning.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 21:41:06
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Momodou
What are you talking about. I am respecting current regime and constitution. Didn't you see my post. I support the president of Gambia and the current constitution.
Janko
I provide my opinion about what is good for the gambia. That is my perspective. That is how I think it is best. I don't have mislaced facts. But you certainly have no clue about the facts. My house is clean. The house has never been colonized. We resisted against enemy. The nation spilled the own blood for it. If necessary the nation can spill others blood too. Any means necessary. The nation have established state since the times of Attilla Hun. The nation fought against Crusades for centuries. The nation ruled part of Europe at times. That is fact.
I am not negative. You are the one who is negative. You and diaspora are the one constantly being critical on Gambia. Not me. To be honest, when you talk about politics, your arrogance and disregarding the facts of gambia, thinking is illusion make me pessimistic to be honest thinking your incapability of improving Gambia.
My critique is negative because of people like you. What are your accomplisment in Gambia? Like I said again, Jammeh is on the ground, in Gambia, working for Gambia. He put his life and against coup or his eneimies. Other Gambians are on the ground. In Gambia. You on the other hand doing the 'Keyboard revolution'. 'talking'. I am positive about Gambia. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 21:46:36
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| This is going to be one of my last posts in Bantaba. I had enough talking. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2010 : 22:31:33
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Just before you go away Turk, reflect on this statement and consider it the way Gambians will also stand to fight deadly people like Yaya Jammeh who is far worse than those colonial whatever you echo about. If your people will fight for their rights, that you see as right. Gambians to challenge a killer thief, dictator, you see that wrong.
In your lame perception of people and their sound opinion, we all lack knowledge and understanding.
May I ask you what tools of assessment you bank on by concluding that people lack understanding? What do you want honest and decent people understand about bunch of bandits parading as political leaders shooting and looting in Gambia?
Come on Turk, reflect your this statement below critically:
You wrote and I quote:
"I provide my opinion about what is good for the gambia. That is my perspective. That is how I think it is best. I don't have mislaced facts. But you certainly have no clue about the facts. My house is clean. The house has never been colonized. We resisted against enemy. The nation spilled the own blood for it. If necessary the nation can spill others blood too. Any means necessary. The nation have established state since the times of Attilla Hun. The nation fought against Crusades for centuries. The nation ruled part of Europe at times. That is fact." Turk
End of quote. |
Karamba |
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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2010 : 00:06:41
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Come on TURK, now that you have stirred everone up and engaged in a very emotive topic,that has been slightly derailed it is true, I think that you should not leave,personally I have my doubts that you really believe all that you have written,and that some of your writings have been to get reaction from other members,if you leave this unfinished business my opinion will have been confirmed,on the other hand if I am mistaken and your views are genuinely held then you should continue and fight for what you believe,its up to you,it has been said many times here that freedom of expression is always recognised on Bantaba in cyberspace.
quote:
Originally posted by turk
This is going to be one of my last posts in Bantaba. I had enough talking.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2010 : 00:16:00
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turk.
why is going your last resort; hence you are free to state your opinion why should others not have that freedom. Tell me, who did I go against? I thought we were dialoguing possibilities by reflecting on what is, that is a positive thing in my book.
You have to clear your dust before you run.
“I don't put much value on democracy, and I think democracy is obstacle for Gambia as it does not fit as Gambia does not understand, have history and capability for democracy anyway. Islam or Communist model maybe a better fit for Gambia. …Wastefulness will continue as Gambia does not have skills and knowledge to be effective government. How many government officials have university degree? How many civil servants have university degree. So your ideals good but not realistic for Gambia. I talked to top managerial level of professional in Gambia, they are skills and knowledge are laughable.”
So you want us to believe you said the above because of Janko … or you said it because is “Fact” |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 22 Apr 2010 00:18:53 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2010 : 00:39:12
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It is fact.
Janko, i have not limit your opinion. But you are getting personal. Anyway, what I stated is fact.
Gambia is one of the 20 poorest country in the world. The literacy level is one of the bottom. No experience in democracy. Does not understand the language of democracy, no experience to establishing government, it did not pay the price i.e. independent war against imperialist. So, first needs to economic development and stability and improve the its HDI index than democracy may fit. I think Jammeh is blessing to Gambia for the stability and economic development that is happening now. I been to Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Sierre Leone, Liberia, Mali and Senegal surrending countries. Among them, despite not having any natural resource, Gambia is the most impressive one. It may be slow but it is happening. But again, I have talked so much about this. I thought you know what i am thinking already. why bother asking?
I hope I clear the dust. I have decided to act now rather than talk.
touby
Thanks. The topic is Gambia. It is not about me 'ME'. It is not about MY HOUSE. I have no hidden agenda and my connection is Gambia is my daughter. That is it. As mentioned, it is better to act than talk, so i have an unfinished business. Now I have a mini project to do that would help Gambia. There is too much noise. I had said what I have to say. I have nothing to say no more.
Karamba
Gambia has a big challenge. It has many socio-economic issues and they are in crisis. One thing about 'my house' when there is a crisis, the people in my house forget about the differences and unite. They fight usually with outsiders. And you need to be willing to be ready for the sacrifice. Many hero including 15 years old boys, and adult women are ready to fight with the enemy after WW1. In Gambia, What I see diaspora barking at the tree from the distance cowardly. In another country. The opposition leader, the chief, is not even ready to challenge and send the soldier instead of being in front. So no hero. Nationhood requires 'collective intelligence and heart'.
I propose this in summary. Gambia needs following in order.
- Stability
- Economic Development
- Human Development
- Security
- Rule of Law
- Democracy
Without presence of these, you are fooling yourself to have expectations of establishing a good system.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 22 Apr 2010 08:45:52 |
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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2010 : 02:28:07
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OK TAKE CARE AND GOD BLESS.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2010 : 10:57:19
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turk
Turkish constitutional reform plans anger judges
Turkey detains military figures in alleged plot against government
About 20 held in investigation into alleged rightwing network
Why are military personnel being arrested in your house as we speak if the people in your house forget about the differences and unite, is that “your truth” or a “fact”.
I think you mean "your truth" not "facts". Because it is your truth when you think you are not what you think others are, that you are the only one doing, everyone else is talking. Let me remind you this is BANTABA not a place of work. Here, we see it as a place to exchange ideas, ventilate thoughts and reflect. Critiquing issues and ideas to make things better not worst, constructive dialogue is a way to facilitate democracy and development.
No nation was born with democracy but developed it through time, so Gambia is no exception. All nations discourse plans, systems, aims, objectives amongst its people, Gambia is not an exception.
Turk, you and I are kids of the "keyboard revolution" (not bad), so, let’s ride on the back of our pass heroes, hence you have only read about WW1. About sacrificing, you do not know what the diaspora is doing or not and how, let’s keep it on the cyber level. My advice is, familiar yourself with our history.
Respect and be respected,... please, stay!!!
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2010 : 20:36:03
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Botha made a speech in 1985. Does any of the posts by Turk on Bantaba (2010) compare to it?
Read on:
Botha’s Speech -1985
THE FOLLOWING is a speech made by former South African President P.W. Botha to his Cabinet. This reprint was written by David G. Mailu for the Sunday Times, a South African newspaper, dated August 18, 1985.
“Pretoria has been made by the White mind for the White man. We are not obliged even the least to try to prove to anybody and to the Blacks that we are superior people. We have demonstrated that to the Blacks in a thousand and one ways. The Republic of South Africa that we know of today has not been created by wishful thinking. We have created it at the expense of intelligence, sweat and blood. Were they Afrikaners who tried to eliminate the Australian Aborigines? Are they Afrikaners who discriminate against Blacks and call them Nigge*rs in the States? Were they Afrikaners who started the slave trade? Where is the Black man appreciated? England discriminates against its Black and their “Sus” law is out to discipline the Blacks. Canada, France, Russia, and Japan all play their discrimination too. Why in the hell then is so much noise made about us? Why are they biased against us? I am simply trying to prove to you all that there is nothing unusual we are doing that the so called civilized worlds are not doing. We are simply an honest people who have come out aloud with a clear philosophy of how we want to live our own White life.
We do not pretend like other Whites that we like Blacks. The fact that, Blacks look like human beings and act like human beings do not necessarily make them sensible human beings. Hedgehogs are not porcupines and lizards are not crocodiles simply because they look alike. If God wanted us to be equal to the Blacks, he would have created> us all of a uniform colour and intellect. But he created us differently: Whites, Blacks, Yellow, Rulers and the ruled. Intellectually, we are superior to the Blacks; that has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt over the years. I believe that the Afrikaner is an honest, God fearing person, who has demonstrated practically the right way of being. Nevertheless, it is comforting to know that behind the scenes, Europe, America, Canada, Australia-and all others are behind us in spite of what they say. For diplomatic relations, we all know what language should be used and where. To prove my point, Comrades, does anyone of you know a White country without an investment or interest in South Africa? Who buys our gold? Who buys our diamonds? Who trades with us? Who is helping us develop other nuclear weapon? The very truth is that we are their people and they are our people. It’s a big secret. The strength of our economy is backed by America, Britain, Germany. It is our strong conviction, therefore, that the Black is the raw material for the White man. So Brothers and Sisters, let us join hands together to fight against this Black devil. I appeal to all Afrikaners to come out with any creative means of fighting this war. Surely God cannot forsake his own people whom we are. By now every one of us has seen it practically that the Blacks cannot rule themselves. Give them guns and they will kill each other. They are good in nothing else but making noise, dancing, marrying many wives and indulging in sex. Let us all accept that the Black man is the symbol of poverty, mental inferiority, laziness and emotional incompetence. Isn’t it plausible? therefore that the White man is created to rule the Black man? Come to think of what would happen one day if you woke up and on the throne sat a Kaff*ir! Can you imagine what would happen to our women? Does anyone of you believe that the Blacks can rule this country?
Hence, we have good reasons to let them all-the Mandelas-rot in prison, and I think we should be commended for having kept them alive in spite of what we have at hand with which to finish them off. I wish to announce a number of new strategies that should be put to use to destroy this Black bug. We should now make use of the chemical weapon. Priority number one, we should not by all means allow any more increases of the Black population lest we be choked very soon. I have exciting news that our scientists have come with an efficient stuff. I am sending out more researchers to the field to identify as many venues as possible where the chemical weapons could be employed to combat any further population increases. The hospital is a very strategic opening, for example and should be fully utilized. The food supply channel should be used. We have developed excellent slow killing poisons and fertility destroyers. Our only fear is in case such stuff came in! ! to their hands as they are bound to start using it against us if you care to think of the many Blacks working for us in our homes.
However, we are doing the best we can to make sure that the stuff remains strictly in our hands. Secondly, most Blacks are vulnerable to money inducements. I have set aside a special fund to exploit this venue. The old trick of divide and rule is still very valid today. Our experts should work day and night to set the Black man against his fellowman. His inferior sense of morals can be exploited beautifully. And here is a creature that lacks foresight. There is a need for us to combat him in long term projections that he cannot suspect. The average Black does not plan his life beyond a year: that stance, for example, should be exploited. My special department is already working round the clock to come out with a long-term operation blueprint. I am also sending a special request to all Afrikaner mothers to double their birth rate. It may be necessary too to set up a population boom industry by putting up centres where we employ and support fully White young men and women to produce children for the nation. We are also investigating the merit of uterus rentals as a possible means of speeding up the growth of our population through surrogate mothers.
For the time being, we should also engage a higher gear to make sure that Black men are separated from their women and fines imposed upon married wives who bear illegitimate children.
I have a committee working on finding better methods of inciting Blacks against each other and encouraging murders among themselves. Murder cases among Blacks should bear very little punishment in order to encourage them.
My scientists have come up with a drug that could be smuggled into their brews to effect slow poisoning results and fertility destruction. Working through drinks and manufacturing of soft drinks geared to the Blacks, could promote the channels of reducing their population. Ours is not a war that we can use the atomic bomb to destroy the Blacks, so we must use our intelligence to effect this. The person-to-person encounter can be very effective.
As the records show that the Black man is dying to go to bed with the White woman, here is our unique opportunity. Our Sex Mercenary Squad should go out and camouflage with Apartheid Fighters while doing their operations quietly administering slow killing poison and fertility destroyers to those Blacks they thus befriend.
We are modifying the Sex Mercenary Squad by introducing White men who should go for the militant Black woman and any other vulnerable Black woman. We have received a new supply of prostitutes from Europe and America who are desperate and too keen to take up the appointments.
My latest appeal is that the maternity hospital operations should be intensified. We are not paying those people to help bring Black babies to this world but to eliminate them on the very delivery moment. If this department worked very efficiently, a great deal could be achieved.
My Government has set aside a special fund for erecting more covert hospitals and clinics to promote this programme. Money can do anything for you. So while we have it, we should make the best use of it. In the meantime my beloved White citizens, do not take to heart what the world says, and don’t be ashamed of being called racists. I do not mind being called the architect and King of Apartheid. I shall not become a monkey simply because someone has called me a monkey. I will still remain your bright star…His Excellency Botha. ”
[Please reprint this document, verify it with excerpts from the Truth and Reconciliation Hearings conducted by the Mandela government, and remind our people that this global genocide continues – Keidi Awadu / http://www.LIBRadio.com]
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Karamba |
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Momodou
Denmark
11730 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2010 : 20:40:26
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Senegambian Ethnic Groups: Common Origins and Cultural Affinities Factors and Forces of National Unity, Peace and Stability
Quote: "with an emerging and relatively young generation of Gambians constituting the vast majority of the population excessively exposed to negative alien ideas, values, cultures and practices especially through the irresistible progress of the new information technology and globalisation, prompt and concerted efforts must be intensified in the formal and informal systems to salvage, preserve and rationalize the dissemination of authentic and useful information about our rich and glorious past and heritage. This is one of the ways to enhance the useful work already being done to harness our youthful population which constitute the indispensable resource for the sustainable human and economic development of our dear country."
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A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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