 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 13:03:31
|
Totally in agreement with you in this case, Kay - although i also agree to Faderabraham's statement that very often sentences are laughable and way too soft which gives the overall impression that society is more careful with the criminals than with his or her victims.
But 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth' is too primitive and medieval, as you said. Moreover, Serenata is right when she says that mistakes have been made in the past and will be made in the future and innocent people were sentenced to death which means that the real killer/rapist or whatever is still around.
|
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
 |
|
|
kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 13:10:34
|
| Very sound points, Anna. Thanks for coming in... |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 15:12:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Prince
And no, we humans don't live by the laws of the gods. Anyone who wants to live by god's law should emigrate to Saudi Arabia, Iran or better still, die to eternally live in God's kingdom!
That appear riculous? This is not about any Islamic states (or Islamic radicalism) but an individual case under American system & its justice; "IN GOD WE TRUST!"  What inspired these sacred words and WHICH GOD IS TRUSTED Please don't pass the buck
Humans travel through time and many years of civilisation and experience brankruptcy & corruption of the society or de-humanising of world and re-formations of systems
Don't we need TEN COMMANDMENTS OF MOSES in this so-called modern world
|
Edited by - kobo on 13 Nov 2009 16:56:40 |
|
|
|
faderabraham
203 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 19:48:53
|
most of the injustice committed by hanging the innocent was carried out during a period before modern forensics and i feel for those families too having there loved one hanged innocently.. but in our modern society WHAT IS THE ANSWER AND PUNISHMENT...deterrrant life sentenve uk out in 7 years i understand having your liberty taken away is not nice but having your son daughter or whoever murdered. how would you feel if it was your family ?
AM TOTALLY AGREE WITH CAPITAL PUNISHMENT . if all avenues of innocense have been exhousted and proven beyond any doubt. |
|
|
|
Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 21:47:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by faderabraham
most of the injustice committed by hanging the innocent was carried out during a period before modern forensics and i feel for those families too having there loved one hanged innocently.. but in our modern society WHAT IS THE ANSWER AND PUNISHMENT...deterrrant life sentenve uk out in 7 years i understand having your liberty taken away is not nice but having your son daughter or whoever murdered. how would you feel if it was your family ?
AM TOTALLY AGREE WITH CAPITAL PUNISHMENT . if all avenues of innocense have been exhousted and proven beyond any doubt.
It is hard to make most people understand the need for the death penalty because the abolitionist don't appeal to reason when they argue their positions. They often retort to the classic liberal emotion-filled tactic of "naming and shaming," by saying, Oh that is "savage, primitive, or uncivilized." It is amazing how these buzz words are able to convince to people to move away from their instinctive -and effective- human nature to a utopia where murderers are just given a "slap on the hand" in a warm and comfy cubical. |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
|
|
|
Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 22:04:21
|
quote:
That appear riculous? This is not about any Islamic states (or Islamic radicalism) but an individual case under American system & its justice; "IN GOD WE TRUST!" What inspired these sacred words and WHICH GOD IS TRUSTED Please don't pass the buck
Humans travel through time and many years of civilisation and experience brankruptcy & corruption of the society or de-humanising of world and re-formations of systems
Don't we need TEN COMMANDMENTS OF MOSES in this so-called modern world
Sorry about that Kobo, I did not intend to bring in Islam... I was just responding to Serenata argument that the capital punishment is a form of "playing god," which implies that it's also breaking god's law. So i was naturally inclined to bring in countries that openly profess to be practice god's law.
I don't see the "In God We Trust" inscription as a religious symbol. To me it is purely cultural... the United States is constitutionally a secular State and although we had a few moments when that notion was questioned, its so far been so good.
I really don't want to be a rude troll by digressing from Kay original topic... I just want you to know that the countries I mentioned were purely coincidental. |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 04:13:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Prince
Sorry about that Kobo, I did not intend to bring in Islam... I was just responding to Serenata argument that the capital punishment is a form of "playing god," which implies that it's also breaking god's law. So i was naturally inclined to bring in countries that openly profess to be practice god's law.
I don't see the "In God We Trust" inscription as a religious symbol. To me it is purely cultural... the United States is constitutionally a secular State and although we had a few moments when that notion was questioned, its so far been so good.
I really don't want to be a rude troll by digressing from Kay original topic... I just want you to know that the countries I mentioned were purely coincidental.
I don't understand what culture, whose God and for which God for American citizens
I am of the opinion that it's corrupt politicians playing God, treacherous and very confused to lead
Christianity or evangelism is supreme is really something in America if it's true that "the U.S is constitutionally a secular state". Politics dictate our moral codes of conduct and governance without any regard for God. Therefore "IN GOD WE TRUST" is a myth!
|
|
|
|
kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 11:34:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by faderabraham
most of the injustice committed by hanging the innocent was carried out during a period before modern forensics and i feel for those families too having there loved one hanged innocently.. but in our modern society WHAT IS THE ANSWER AND PUNISHMENT...deterrrant life sentenve uk out in 7 years i understand having your liberty taken away is not nice but having your son daughter or whoever murdered. how would you feel if it was your family ?
AM TOTALLY AGREE WITH CAPITAL PUNISHMENT . if all avenues of innocense have been exhousted and proven beyond any doubt.
Critics of the death penalty are not suggesting that it is ok to slap convicted murderers on the wrist. What they are saying is that:
1. Killing someone (for killing another) is a repetitive killing and cruel in itself.
2. Condidering that money plays a big role in legal representation and that most defendants (suspects) of murder are poor and indigent, and sometimes of questionable mental state; life imprisonment adequately serves the purpose of punishment and protection of society from danger. The cliche "best justice money can buy" often underscores the point that the rights of the poor are often not well represented.
3. The practice of law is not an exact science. While justice may be served with full intent, the party with the truth does not always win in court. There are a lot of technicalities and strategy, and the party with more money is often better positioned to benefit from superior legal strategy and loop holes in the law. Developments in technology-especially DNA testing- have further exonerated many convicted death row inmates, some after languishing in jail for decades. Therefore, considering the finality of the death penalty (it cannot be reversed), and the possibility of wrongful conviction and death; the death penalty should be sparingly used or totally abolished...
Let me also say that sometimes what the lay community consider a "slap on the wrist" or "light sentences" for murderers are not necessarily so. You see law is based on evidence. Some times the evidence gets destroyed, lost, or intractable. Therefore, even if the general lay population think a crime has been committed, your case in court is only as good as the evidence you have. Some people get away with murder because they are so skilled in destroying or hiding evidence. Such weak evidence forces some prosecutors to seek lighter sentences, sometimes in exchange for confession in order to bring about a closure...
Please see a very recent example in the link below: I am sure many people in Rwanda and abroad will be angered by this man's release, because they are convinced that he is getting away (scott free) with the blood of many on his hands.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091117/wl_nm/us_rwanda_acquittal |
Edited by - kayjatta on 17 Nov 2009 10:22:28 |
|
|
|
kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 10:34:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dalton1
I am totally against the death penalty as well; and for all my life, I doubted its effectiveness, perhaps only to others who survive to learn from it, and not actually those gone. I watch some of his home vedeos with family yesterday, he was a fine man all his life. Life is full of stages. That is why it is good to continually pray to be guided along the straight path. Anyways, your headline gave me a shock Kay...to my veins/heart..(no offense)...just for love of that one Man called Prophet Muhammad, Peace and Blessings of God Be Upon Him. It is your nuisance (excuse its usage) habbit to forward funny topics on islam here always. I hope that is not the case on this one. Common ooon now, amin...you want to tell me there is no better headline than this one that touches peoples' sensibilities Please if you won't mind taking a suggestion per opinion, go ahead and change this topic...Please!!!
As a former soldier, they could have at least allowed 'rememberance' day to pass by before taking his life since some examintion on his brains shows some after-war stress disease.[He fought in the battle of Desert Storm, Iraq]. That doesn't in my view free him from the horrible crimes he committed. It is better justice than the justice of lethal injections, neck-hanging or firing squads...How about imprisonment with hard labor?
yj
Hey Dalton, how do you reconcile your opposition to the death penalty and your religious faith? |
|
|
|
Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 17:39:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Hey Dalton, how do you reconcile your opposition to the death penalty and your religious faith?
This is indeed a critical matter without doubt Kay because it involves individual mind judgment (understanding), but God's laws are the reference points for Muslims. Apparently, the case at hand is done by a non-Muslim Gov't (US). Possibly, we can further ask: Where, when and how did they arrive at the death penalty?
What to look at though, God Almighty said in Surah (Chapter 1) Baqara (The Cow), Ayat (verse 1): A, L, M (Alif, Laam, Meem -these are miraculous verses of the Quran and Allah swt Alone knows their meanings.) This is in summary to say human knowledge is limited to what we perceive is right as per our opinions. The Creator (Al knower) knows the reasons for all, including the most mysterious unresolved mysteries in this world -to which until this day, no human can explain the reasons behind them. It doesn't mean we cannot have sympathy over happenings, but the truth remains God knows best the wisdom behind His glorious verses.
I am sure you heard about the story of Alkidr (The wise man) and Prophet Musa (PBUH) as explained in the hadiths of the holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in their journey together. In the Story of Alkidr, Prophet Musa was trapped in the "whys" of those mysterious doings by Alkidr, which shows how limited human knowledge is over understanding the true affairs of happenings. Anyways, I am not an islamic jurist or sheik, just the regular common fellow, who believes in the Oneness of God Almighty, the Quran in its entirity (& the revealed books), the Prophets and messengers -simply the religion of pure Islam as taught by the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). I humbly ask God to forgive me for my shortcomings and to matters of affairs to which I have limited understanding and explanation.
Some google search reference:
http://allafrica.com/stories/200906030339.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7234870.stm
Reference: Islamic City Online
http://www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/ARABICSCRIPT/AYAT/2/2_1.htm
quote:
English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)
2:1 A.L.M.
http://www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/ARABICSCRIPT/AYAT/2/2_178.htm
quote:
English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)
2:178 O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
From the above verse, hopefully others can help give us the interpretations to the ACTUAL 'CONTEXT' -but it can be easy for one to clearly see options of mercy -for short, plea for mitigation.
I hope you find the provided links and references useful to the debate.
yj
|
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
|
Edited by - Dalton1 on 17 Nov 2009 17:55:34 |
|
|
|
kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 06:37:41
|
Thanks for your response, Dalton. However, it will be great if you could answer this in simple, clear language (2 to 3 sentences will be sufficient). Please, no Halifa Sallah-style history lesson .
How do you reconcile your opposition to the death penalty and your religious (Islamic) faith |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
