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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jun 2006 : 17:33:11
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| Sorry, but this link does not work. Which article was it? |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2006 : 20:08:16
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We prematurely raised some eyebrows, assumptions and certain allegations suspicious that the Army, law enforcement agencies and Jammeh's security apparatus is being undermined by tribalism on promotions and recruitment to certain key positions. Are there any evidence on these recent promotions here? Under http://allafrica.com/stories/200606070742.html
Sorry for error! |
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somita
United Kingdom
163 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2006 : 21:53:29
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Kobo, this is the very reason why challenged Demnish on making gross insertions and sensational research findings to support his perceived opinion. Personal I think its not wrong to formulated an opinion on any issue how ever sensitive, for ones opinion is and cannot be harmful however presenting opinion as facts is pathetic and indeffensible in the moderm world. I sadly look farward to more of his findings as promised on this issue.
Clearly we have a monster heading our dearest motherland, perhaps the most irresponsible adult since Edi Amin Dada days. Such person characters requires alot careful and responsible politicing otherwise we will be tilting towards the point of no return.
Lets have a proper debate about tribilism in the Gambia, I have to say we are very blessed, almost everybody has friend across the tribal line, no body in their right mind today wants to speak their mother language ...because its no longer cool. Of course its not unusual but rather stupid and equally irresponsible to suggest that tribalism is not a problem. There are some individuals whoe would wants us all to be divided on tribal line for their own personal objectives/gain or to further their sickening doom careers. On the other hand to suggest that the whole Gambian institution including parliament are galvanise to promoting one tribes superiority as research by Demnish is not only misplace energy but extremely explosive.
We can only win the moral war against Jammeh using moral means. Attempts to use deception, mis-infomation and alienation to achieve some objectives is worthless because in the end we will all loose the moral high ground into the pitch of darkness. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2006 : 22:47:27
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| Somita Thanks for that good lecture and hope that others are enlighten to use other approaches and facts to show signs of tribalism and nepotism in recruitment and promotions in the civil service or government organs. The debate goes on and on please! |
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kaanibaa
United Kingdom
1169 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2006 : 09:56:26
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| Once again i want to just create a scenario of humans mating not being rude here please. When a mandinka male mates with a fula female and beget a child what tribe would the child belong to ,both i suppose . You see if a donkey and a horse mate their offspring is definetly neither horse nor donkey yes ! So we have a lot of people claiming to belong to one tribe or the other and use that to castigate another tribe ,forgetting that tribe as a set or grouping is a subset of a bigger whole group to wit the human race. We are all one family and those trivial links which make us stand out from each other was only for identification and should not be a divisive tool for the benefit of satanic/diabolical individuals or groups. Gambia is our motherland, we intermarry, cohabit and procreate across the tribal boundaries and now we have a conglomeration of citizens of one nation with one destiny. Let us therefore not sink ship; the ship of state i.e. THE GAMBIA by vain struggles impired by fickle minds bent on *****ing the effort to enfranchise us all. BUllen wengal gaalgui. ''Mining ming tafal tafal toonya le laban nah deh!'' how ever crooked the route; the truth will finally surface and if that cvomes about ''KU nyaw roosh'' , the damned wil be ashame |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2006 : 10:54:18
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Kaaniba I do agree with all your points and previous postings of Somita. However in certain political climates especially in Africa what we normally suspect, point out and describe as tribalistic is invincible and is difficult to identify the offsprings and its specific members of that group inclined to belong or believed that they are part of that clique. Tribalism is more complex than racism, more crude and difficult to discern and address notwithstanding they are part of African politics. Mafia is based on "Godfather", "family", "the clique", "networking", "operarte clandestinely", "underground", "too remote to discern" and "protection of common intersts". That was what created "teri kafo". In as much as you cannot identify who is who under "teri kafo" machinations as it informally is suspicious to existed at that era of Jawara created by certain elites and priviledge group. Is it that the new era in Gambian politics don't have that "mafia style of leadership" and in some respects tainted by tribalism to some extent?
If you read the aricle posted you will note about "The Godfather" from this quotaion: "Noting that loyalty to the President is "unquestionable", Col Tamba urged the officers to demonstrate that loyalty and dedication to duties. " I tend to asume and inclined to be suspicious that most of those on the lists including the following: " Col. Lang Tombong Tamba, Mr Baboucarr Jatta, Secretary of State for the Interior Six Warrant Officers ClassI (Ansumana Tamba, Omar Sanyang, Gibril Bojang, Essa Tamba, ......, and .....) and two Lieutenants (Lamin Baaji and Momodou T Tamba) were promoted to the rank of Captain, while five Second Lieutenants (Saikou Kujabi, Ebrima Krubally, Kuleteh Manneh, Sedia Danso, and ......) three WOIIs (James James, Omar Colley, and ......), six WOIs (Abdoulie Manneh, ........., ........., Alieu Jatta, Baboucarr Jatta, Timothy Sanyang), and one Staff Sergeant ........, received elation to the rank of lieutenant. are definitely with the same tribe as "The Godfather". Furthermore "Kanilaa" "The God father's birth place" is now considered our new state house is inhabited, boosted and fortified mainly by my tribe and Casamance rebels similar to my tribe. The tribe we are born from makes us belong to that tribal identity culturally and ritually. It may not be meaningful and appropriate but clique and mafia are part of African poliltics. Lets not pretend that trbalism does not exist as a setback for current Government. Its just very difficult to to describe it and highlight them but its a manipulative tool for the security of "The Godfather" in crude African politics and should be analysed and addressed. |
Edited by - kobo on 10 Jun 2006 11:25:01 |
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Dembish
Gambia
284 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2006 : 22:55:58
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I Welcome you all back to this Topic, I did not retreat from it but rather let the sleeping dog to rest.One thing Somita/KoBo I shall defend whatever I said regarding tribalism.You bringing this topic back to light simply manifests how touched you two are about the topic.
Brothers Jammeh's tribalism/ nepotism hate it or like is a menace in our country and is not only to do with positions but in every activity.If you are against jammeh by condeming his economic policies, bad human right records,illiteracy, foreign policy you name them, and yet you giving blind eye to his act of tribalism /nepotism because you are a fellow jola, then you are a pathetic hipocrite.Yes really and truely, I am still adamant to my views on this issue and no hauling or barking from Somita neither Kobo can change my stance on this issue.I have decided not to waste my time anymore with you two on this issue but still reserving my results on this issue.But before I go a couple of questions for Kobo and Somita and unless you can answer this genuinely, I am not ready to engage you two on this issue anymore.
Kobo what is "Putanpaf" and what has it got to do with the history of roots,besides can you justify on what grounds jammeh is attributing the roots festival to Putanpaf to the total exclusion of the rest of tribes in The Gambia? Your answer please'''
Somita just want you to justify on what grounds does the " Bakarabou" players deserve our nation medals? |
There is no egg without a chicken, and no chicken without egg. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2006 : 00:15:09
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No idea about "Putanpaf" and I don't think you have seen what my position is on this topic.
I have made tremendous efforts to make this topic vibrant and for everybody to be exposed on this topic and try all means to make critical analysis to enable us gather as much information as possible and know about its implications to adopt the right policies and decisions for the nation to be progressive peoples', and achieve peace, stability and prosperity. Its not your own topic no matter whether you initiate the topical discussions under new topic. Its an issue that concerns all of us. Don't over react and expressing sentiments or emotions no matter what or however stock with ideas on this topic you are. If you don't have anymore ideas please don't attack personalities. Deal with the substance and subject matter of this topic and if your views are different just be adamant to maintain your position and leave others on their respective positions on the topic in question. If you give up on the debates thats fine but as far as I am concern the debate is still in progress.
Finally try and discern my position and views on this topic properly before you made another arrogant remark upon Kobo.
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Edited by - kobo on 11 Jun 2006 00:18:46 |
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somita
United Kingdom
163 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2006 : 02:24:18
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Demnish, your last postings perhaps sums up your views, its perhaps the cheapest simplistic narrow view I have ever heard on this forum. Gentleman not responding to my postings is fine by me, i have to problem with that at all. You made a grave insertions which you could not proof with you so called research data. I'm not saying that Gambia is tribalism free, there are people who wants their tribes to head certains positions, my argument is that its not institutionalised.
Lets set the records straight, you promised this forum that you have research data to proof that tribalism is institutionalised with the regime, unfortunately you produced a listing which sad did not support the theory. You promised to make further research available, the forum members including myself are patiently waiting to pontificate over your findings.
By the way Demnish you asked about "Bakarabou" and Gambian medal. Again you are not being academic rather you are runing a getto type research. If musician is given a medal because he entains Gambian public with "Bakarabou" instruments, not through political connection or tribal relation as you seem suggest, I think that would be perfectly normal, like given the nation's medal to any other griot or musician.
Demnish my worry is you are not very enlighten and ignorance is the major contributor to descrimination, your questions have some elements political incorrectness and I hope that does not mean you have a feeling of bitterness towards jolas. Such a feeling is all you need to create another Rwanda. Keeps the peace |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2006 : 04:56:04
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Folks,
I 've been keenly following this topic with interest. By so doing, realized that debates that are surposed to focus on the topic of discussion always tilts towards the other side. That doesn't mean we will run away from the topic. Debates look much nice and appreciated if put in an intellectual way, give and take, teach and learn, direct and reduce, agree or disagree without resorting to what looks like personal exchange of views. When it gets there, not only does it discourage one, but it also brings barrier among contributors. Future peace makers cannot afford to start dividing by simple things, "agree & disagree"
Here and there, we see tribal lines-in language, acting (deeds) etc..In the current Gambia, one won't be wrong at all in opinion to think that "tribalism" is instistutionalized.
For a fact, when department hiring and allocation of positions is based on tribal favotism, then to me that would be clear indication to the hateful pla.We are all living withnesses of the current day army, recruitings and promotions recently observed. For a fact, mandinkas and fulas seems to suffer a lot within the jammeh administration, whether this is by coincidence or matter of 'teiyeh moneh', the matter is creeping badly.
On the other hand, Jammeh who happened to be a jola, is surrounded by a lot of other tribes, so makes it wrong, and hard to prove that institutions are tribalised. I tend to see more 'favortism' and 'teri-kafo' linings than that of tribalism now, as a matter of fact, the later is worst and does more harm than tribalism in our society.
Should we say favortism then ?
Note to dembish-In our jola culture, "futampaf" means circumsition festival, small or big one as directly translated from our local languages. also, during futampaf, we have 'bujehsirumbeh-slaughter of the hens', and we have our refreshing drink 'bunka-yabei', locally rotten roots with wheat and roots, also 'bu-tusap'-cutting the body with metals, knives, guns etc...If u haven't withness one, try it. hula beh foni, safi-saf, balabuh jongjom.
Long live co-existence !
Down with terikafo ! |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Edited by - Dalton1 on 11 Jun 2006 05:01:11 |
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kaanibaa
United Kingdom
1169 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2006 : 11:31:09
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| Futampafu in the jola circumcision circuit is a ritual and it is supposed to be an honour for a young jola male or female to be initiated. However it is a restricted ceremony in that those who were not initiated into the circle are not allowed to join in the real secret rituals till they are initiated.It also taboo to discuss what happens inside the jungle especially to non initiates and outsiders. Yes it is a rich culture just like all other Gambian ethnic cultures but that aside , it beats my imagination that some one would take issue with such a ceremony except of course if such a ceremony is being used to show supremacy of one tribe over another. Certainly a deep rooted ceremony such as futampafu does creat kinship among initiates and if misused can be a political tool of a crazed *****. However, coming to the topic of tribalism institutionalised in Gambia ,i believe that judging from the ratio of individuals holding key/vital positions in the Gambian administration we can safely conclude that it is tainted by a tribal marking,the jola component is certainly exposed as usurping most if not all major posts. Some positions are not considered as stratigic to the regime and would not mind it being manned by another tribe but check it out men it is clear ,defence, NIA, interior, police IGP, Central bank, GPA,Assets management coop etc all are key areas so come on it is there for all to see. But and a big but here is that Yahya uses the brand TRIBALISM as weapon to tarnish the image of the opposition and want us to believe that they are against him because of his tribe . That is not true. Again we in the forum have a problem some of us do not mind hurling abuse at others using the tribal attack mode. That would be counter productive because then we would be doing the dirty on each other and distrust would seep in and thus the fabric of co operation would be weakened leading to the splintering of our efforts. Can we afford that at this stage I think not . So again I say Bullen wengal gaal bi |
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Dembish
Gambia
284 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2006 : 20:27:06
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| Thanks all for the contributon, I have vowed ealier not to waste time on this issue anymore but just to Clear my feeling, that I swear to God I have nothing against the jola tribe but I hate descrimation especially if based on tribalism.One thing is certain , the Gambia is too small and the biggest threat today is Tribalism guys believe it or not.I have seen Gambia yesterday and I am still witnessing events today, but am worried.This is why stand up to Condem tribalism and I will never make any concession over what I said over the issue.THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE US FREE. |
There is no egg without a chicken, and no chicken without egg. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2006 : 23:44:25
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Dalton 1 I do appreciate your intervention and comments. Have gathered a lot from it but wish to elaborate on certain similarities, make some distinctions and clarifications on how tribalism is suspected to be institutionalize in both the previous political order and the present one . The so called "teri kafo" political mafia style was suspected to be comprised of certain elites and/ or those with certain priviledges gained ground under a different political order and government of that day. The political state at that time reached a climax where we started sensing certain signals, inclinations and psychological phenomena to have existed or formed them informally through our perception of the state of affairs.. At that time the ‘underworld unknown group’ considered as “teri-kafo” because of tribal linings as that word appears to be Mandinka as those days appear to be very vibrant as a major tribe. The Mandinka word was coined in just to describe another mafia system. Now the current political order have similar phenomena prevailing and psychologically feared to be there but invincible. We could say what you describe as “teri-kafa” , which authoritatively execute mafia political style of undermining policies is institutionalize under the current government and various names can be used to describe them; as different forms of mafia exist for your information.
Therefore in my opinion forget about the defunct “teri-kafo” you knew earlier and focus on the revived one or steered under the present government which any suitable name for a mafia can be used to describe it.
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Edited by - kobo on 11 Jun 2006 23:50:14 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2006 : 04:18:48
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Kobo,
it couldn't be explained any better, great illumination from your side, shows actual knowledge of the hated disease.
The reasons why i am taking a twist from believing things might not be tribal, but just this 'moo-kurung bengho, teri-kafo'-association of hypocrites, association of friends', for direct translations to our non-mandinka speakers is simple. Though the word under usage here is mandinka, it doesn't matter in which language you present it in, what matters is understanding its meaning.Anyone you might think of today have associates from every tribe, and a tribalist would mean not welcoming or entertaining other tribes to ones self or ones group. Tribal utterances sometimes enumerate from anger or bad experience with people of certain tribes, though can be used in reciprocal to qualify them as tribalist, might to the point be true.
The mere existence of the word 'tribalism' is a clear testimony that the shameful pla still finds its ugly face in our decent societies, so the best stance is for any to truly purify him or herself from it-'turn it off'. It is also true that minorities when belittled by majorities, tend to interprete it as 'tribalism' or 'rasism', which in every genuine arguement should be given weight.
Frankly speaking, though too young to remember such backward way of politics in the arena, with the ongoing trend, one can use such featured evidence to connect the dots, in addition to documented pages to conclude that the 'mafia' surfaces all the time to undermine and support certain things that are not democratic. It is also factual that such leaders of the destructive string is headed by people with some influence over others-whether professions, money or political leadership. in fact, such is used to terrolize people, seize their rights, mask their faces and turn them to fear and worshipping certain individuals and to execute their orders without a second though, best described in english as 'divide n rule'.
The cankerworm must never be given canopy or space for germination. We cannot also rule out some of Dembis' claims that 'tribalism' unfortunately exist in the Gambia, whether in small concentration or growing large concentrations, noticeably in the political arena. Infact if Jammeh's open comments are to go by, then that vindicated Dembish that tribalism is instistutionalized-in the open he tribally points fingers to the mandinkas, that in itself is cause for concern.The many times that Jammeh made such tribal remarks, being the head of the administration, is not by accident, it is intentional as well as practical from him, and the didn't hide it in the latest allged coup d'tat.Jammeh and certain other people being tribal doesn't make all his tribesmen tribalistic. I am lucky to be from a decent Jola community where 'jovial relationships' are the order of the day. I thank God i am a Gambian, proud to be one with all the diverse people, who are free from all traits of tribalims, extremism and racism.
I rest it under this topic. If any is human, i will dine with you. |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2006 : 10:49:02
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| Thanks for the acknowledgement and comments to control this menace in our society and political leaderships. |
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