 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Sep 2009 : 01:10:39
|
Points taken...
Dialogue is like a music instrument, one has to be able to play what one intends to play verbally before playing it on the instrument. So, we have to be able to express or communicate our needs to our politicians before they can achieve it, hence they are no mind readers. We can not blame our politicians for not delivering if we are not able to clearly communicate our needs to them. How can we do that without a meaningful dialogue?
One thing is for certain that there shall be no democracy without constructive mutual and meaningful dialogue. Sometimes, one feels for our hand fallen politicians and party leaders trying to engage a people in meaningful and good intended dialogue but keep failing time after time. At other times one feels that they are victims caught in a situation where nothing meaningful is possible. So what do you do in such circumstances?
|
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
 |
|
|
Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2009 : 01:22:10
|
It's hard to say anything to you when you have set the bar so high,I feel your pain and fully concur ,Janko ,your words are not going to waste ,yet the problem is bigger than just debating ,How can anyone sit there and carry on a debate based on something that is a LIE. That is not a discussion ,that is "RAMBARGE" . We can discuss freely and should maturely but for now if they don't stop lying ,i will shut them up and Kayjatta can call it censoring  .......................................Peace quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Points taken...
Dialogue is like a music instrument, one has to be able to play what one intends to play verbally before playing it on the instrument. So, we have to be able to express or communicate our needs to our politicians before they can achieve it, hence they are no mind readers. We can not blame our politicians for not delivering if we are not able to clearly communicate our needs to them. How can we do that without a meaningful dialogue?
One thing is for certain that there shall be no democracy without constructive mutual and meaningful dialogue. Sometimes, one feels for our hand fallen politicians and party leaders trying to engage a people in meaningful and good intended dialogue but keep failing time after time. At other times one feels that they are victims caught in a situation where nothing meaningful is possible. So what do you do in such circumstances?
|
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2009 : 12:03:04
|
Point taken Moe …
I think we have to prevent the situation of "biting the fish", as the saying goes there would be no difference between Janko and the fish if he bites back the fish. An alternative to unmasking or disclosing a lie is to present facts that would refute the deception for all to see, is not enough to say "it’s a lie".
Some times “an eye for an eye” does not bring clarity nor makes point. This is not to say one should take one more slap after the first one, no, but that wordiness can widen the scope of discussion which could sift focus from the negative to the positive and thereby a give and take condition of dialogue achieved even whereas the disagreement remains.
|
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 30 Sep 2009 08:20:41 |
|
|
|
kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2009 : 12:46:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Moe
It's hard to say anything to you when you have set the bar so high,I feel your pain and fully concur ,Janko ,your words are not going to waste ,yet the problem is bigger than just debating ,How can anyone sit there and carry on a debate based on something that is a LIE. That is not a discussion ,that is "RAMBARGE" . We can discuss freely and should maturely but for now if they don't stop lying ,i will shut them up and Kayjatta can call it censoring .......................................Peace quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Points taken...
Dialogue is like a music instrument, one has to be able to play what one intends to play verbally before playing it on the instrument. So, we have to be able to express or communicate our needs to our politicians before they can achieve it, hence they are no mind readers. We can not blame our politicians for not delivering if we are not able to clearly communicate our needs to them. How can we do that without a meaningful dialogue?
One thing is for certain that there shall be no democracy without constructive mutual and meaningful dialogue. Sometimes, one feels for our hand fallen politicians and party leaders trying to engage a people in meaningful and good intended dialogue but keep failing time after time. At other times one feels that they are victims caught in a situation where nothing meaningful is possible. So what do you do in such circumstances?
 |
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2009 : 23:27:59
|
| Tribal mentality is not only a consequence of indoctrination but also a sign of cultural alienation in its highest form,”tubabou-karandingya”. Those who tribalise are mostly the ones schooled in the europhonic educational tradition. They shun their pedigree by dueling in the jargon of tribalism without fully understanding the anthropological implications. Such tribalising uttering or commentaries are only possible in English and are always from alienated mindsets. Tribalistic statements are not only rhetorical and lame but also arguments of resistance. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 02 Oct 2009 23:30:27 |
|
|
|
toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2009 : 23:38:24
|
Janko,what a lot of long words you have managed to put into such a small space,I tried to work out what you meant,but I am sorry I gave up,what a pity it must have been very worth while I am sure,you are not usually one to make such convoluted postings.I expect Kay can understand though!
quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Tribal mentality is not only a consequence of indoctrination but also a sign of cultural alienation in its highest form,”tubabou-karandingya”. Those who tribalise are mostly the ones schooled in the europhonic educational tradition. They shun their pedigree by dueling in the jargon of tribalism without fully understanding the anthropological implications. Such tribalising uttering or commentaries are only possible in English and are always from alienated mindsets. Tribalistic statements are not only rhetorical and lame but also arguments of resistance.
|
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2009 : 23:48:49
|
toubab1020 ... sorry for that .
What I am trying to say is that tribalism has no political value in the Gambia. And to repeat the mistakes of the old-school politicians of the first republic clearly indicate not doing ones homework and thereby betraying ones responsibility.
|
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2009 : 09:56:22
|
Tribal mentality is not only a consequence of indoctrination but also a sign of cultural alienation in its highest form,”tubabou-karandingya”. Those who tribalise are mostly the ones schooled in the europhonic educational tradition. They shun their pedigree by dueling in the jargon of tribalism without fully understanding the anthropological implications.
Reading empowers people, Ngugi wa Thiong’o (2009-10-01, Issue 450)
writes in this week’s edition of Pambazuka News, but people need more than access to books, they need access to books in their own languages. In the first part of a keynote speech given at the 6th Pan African Reading for all Conference, wa Thiong’o argues that ‘if you want to hide knowledge from an African child, put it in English or French.’ To ‘know one’s language, whatever that language is, and add others to it, is empowerment, says wa Thiong’o, ‘but to know all the other languages while ignorant of one’s own is slavery.’ |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
|
|
|
toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2009 : 12:35:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Janko
toubab1020 ... sorry for that .
What I am trying to say is that tribalism has no political value in the Gambia. And to repeat the mistakes of the old-school politicians of the first republic clearly indicate not doing ones homework and thereby betraying ones responsibility.
Thanks I understand your point now. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
|
|
|
toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2009 : 12:51:29
|
I have read this piece I am a little unconvinced that the writer fully believes in what he has written,Why ? the small sentence at the foot of the page:
Professor Ngugi wa Thiong’o is Distinguished Professor of English and Comparative Literature, and director of the International Centre for Writing and Translation, at the University of California Irvine
There is no doubt at all that the writer is a noted intellectual but his piece appears to be slanted in a way that is not compatable with HIS present position No body wants to see their language become useless and dormant but if development,tourism,the hotel industry, and international trade are to flourish in Gambia,there must be middle ground covered.
quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Tribal mentality is not only a consequence of indoctrination but also a sign of cultural alienation in its highest form,”tubabou-karandingya”. Those who tribalise are mostly the ones schooled in the europhonic educational tradition. They shun their pedigree by dueling in the jargon of tribalism without fully understanding the anthropological implications.
Reading empowers people, Ngugi wa Thiong’o (2009-10-01, Issue 450)
writes in this week’s edition of Pambazuka News, but people need more than access to books, they need access to books in their own languages. In the first part of a keynote speech given at the 6th Pan African Reading for all Conference, wa Thiong’o argues that ‘if you want to hide knowledge from an African child, put it in English or French.’ To ‘know one’s language, whatever that language is, and add others to it, is empowerment, says wa Thiong’o, ‘but to know all the other languages while ignorant of one’s own is slavery.’
|
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
Edited by - toubab1020 on 04 Oct 2009 12:54:02 |
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2009 : 15:11:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
...Distinguished Professor of English and Comparative Literature, and director of the International Centre for Writing and Translation, at the University of California Irvine
...language become useless and dormant but if development,tourism,the hotel industry, and international trade are to flourish in Gambia,there must be middle ground covered.
toubab 1020, … Point taken
My reference to Ngugi´s position on the importance of language is the standpoint that there is a relationship between language and perception, values and worldview. That our perception is dependant on the language we familiarise, categorise, analyse and understand the world around us with.
My argument is; the tribal mindset is created by the “formal” system of educating our pupils in languages that are not only new but have no historical bond to our existence and thereby no reference to our worldview. These new languages came with their own historical references and worldviews that have no relation to our everyday realities.
The development of International trade, tourism, the hotel industry is not dependant on speaking English. For example, China and some Middle Eastern countries are more industrially developed and have more tourists than Gambia, even whereas their official languages are not English.
|
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
|
|
|
toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2009 : 16:18:53
|
Thanks Janko,I am not disagreeing with the learned man's thoughts,that's fine and EVERYONE would agree with his sentiments but what I was pointing out was his way of "Do as I say and not do as I do" there is another saying, "those that can do, those who can't teach" In my last paragraph of my posting,did I mention English ? Maybe other languages should be taught ?( OK......... I was THINKING English in my post  ) |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
Edited by - toubab1020 on 04 Oct 2009 16:20:52 |
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2009 : 16:43:00
|
toubab 1020, point taken
The Professor and Translator has taken the perfect position, a link between English and other languages including his. He writes in other languages and translates the work to English and translate interesting materials in English to other languages including his. A perfect position for someone advocating for Africanisation of education and academia. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
|
|
|
toubab1020
12306 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2009 : 18:09:42
|
| JANKO point taken, Thanks |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
Edited by - toubab1020 on 04 Oct 2009 18:10:28 |
|
|
|
kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2009 : 07:38:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Janko,what a lot of long words you have managed to put into such a small space,I tried to work out what you meant,but I am sorry I gave up,what a pity it must have been very worth while I am sure,you are not usually one to make such convoluted postings.I expect Kay can understand though!
quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Tribal mentality is not only a consequence of indoctrination but also a sign of cultural alienation in its highest form,”tubabou-karandingya”. Those who tribalise are mostly the ones schooled in the europhonic educational tradition. They shun their pedigree by dueling in the jargon of tribalism without fully understanding the anthropological implications. Such tribalising uttering or commentaries are only possible in English and are always from alienated mindsets. Tribalistic statements are not only rhetorical and lame but also arguments of resistance.
Thanks Toubab, but I think, with some degree of reluctance, that Janko's views in this respect are inward looking and therefore tribalistic in itself. Contrary to what Janko postulates those who are well read often are ouward looking and therefore more 'globalistic' as opposed to tribalistic.
Ngugi Waa Thiongo, an African literary giant and a man I admire a lot, must be understood in his totality. An understanding of Waa Thiongo's literary significance and attitude cannot ignore his colonial and immediate post-colonial experience as an individual, a scholar and writer.
Needless to say, Waa Thiongo's position on the sigtnificance of language (African languages for that matter) in African art and literature is limiting and inward looking, and therefore perhaps represents a school of thought that is tribalising. This position reflects Waa Thiongo's colonial and immediate post-colonial experience in Kenya.Waa Thiongo is perhaps a revolutionary, both in political and literaray terms...
There is an alternative school of thought, largely pioneered by the Nigerian novelist, Chinua Achebe that argued the contrary. Achebe and others did not view English or other colonial languages as the culprit for tribalism. English;especially in Nigeria has a unifying effect, and tribalism is direct consequence of ignorance and lack of exposure rather than "Toubabu karandingya" (Western Education) They did not see English as the medium for the educated African tribalist. Achebe and others contend that English and other colonial languages, as spoken and written by Africans, are hybridized and therefore did not totally represent the European perspective but rather the African perspective. This view, even as limiting in its own way as it sounds, appears more globalizing and less revolutionary...
But afterall, janko has a point. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 05 Oct 2009 07:53:07 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
