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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Apr 2009 : 07:25:54
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The function of legal experts is to interpret, argue and apply the law. Legal experts determine whether individual (corporations, government, and other entities) actions and conduct are within the law. I am not aware of any law that prohibits skin bleaching. The law should restrict individual liberty and freedom as little as possible. As long as individual actions and conduct are not in violation of any law (and sometimes public policy), such individuals must be left alone and respected for who they are and the choices they make about their own lives even if you disagree with them. This is the foundation of democracy, human rights and the rule of law.
Part of the error you guys are making is that you tend to view skin bleaching from a racial and a colonial perspective. We need to get this colonial stuff out of our heads ... . The women and men who bleach their skin (I do not and none of my family members do-although my mom, two of my siblings, and one of my daughters are naturally very light skin) do not necessarily want to be white; they just want to lighten their skin. Black African skin naturally comes in various degrees of color in itself. So let's forget about race and colonial issues, because lots of white people also tan their skin not necessarily because they want to be Black or they hate themselves. There are plenty of other things that people do that questions their rationality and self-esteem, such as over eating, smoking, plastic or cosmetic surgery, extreme weight control, using alcohol and drugs, artificial hair and hair coloring, artificial nails and so on and so on. Perhaps the whole area of "feminine make up" and cosmetology is largely about presenting one self the way one really is not. Why do they do it ? Because it works for them. It makes them feel good about themselves and they get positive reaction from some others even if only men and the media.
I suspect that those who are fighting skin bleaching (and maybe tanning) purely on racial grounds might in fact be racial purists or segregationists. But even that fear of racial 'integration' by bleaching and tanning are irrational itself, because races do not mix by artificial means. Racial purity has no foundation in genetics or biology. There is no inter-species boundary between Blacks and Whites.
The reason I presented the First Lady of Cameroon is that if you listen to the news all the praises and admiration she receives are about superficial things-her nails, her hair, and even not far in the background her skin color from a mixed-race parentage. I presented her to illustrate once again the irrationality characteristic of much of human experience.
This related piece might also interest you:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090408/ts_nm/us_plasticsurgery_recession_life |
Edited by - kayjatta on 08 Apr 2009 12:50:45 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 11:02:46
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Kayjatta, you wrote: "I trust that people wish the best for themselves, and they should have the absolute right to do whatever they want with their bodies as long as they are not harming others. Both government and society need to respect individual rights, no matter how irrational, shameful or degrading they may seem..."
I agree that personal freedom is of high value. But I doubt that bleaching has really to do with freedom - I suspect that it is more a kind of pressure. There is clear evidence that bleaching is harmful. For children it is absolutely intolerable; it is a severe mistreat. Would you feed poison to your kids and declare this an individual right, a symbol of your personal freedom? And if you as an adult make the 'individual' choice to harm yourself: This is not only your problem, it afflicts many others, like family, friends, the society who in the worst case will have to care for you if you are getting ill. Think of alcoholism or drug addiction. We are social beings with responsibilities for ourselves and for others, no matter if a dubious and inconsistent US ideology of 'freedom' denies it.
It is true that people always tried to modify their physical appearance. They have developed tattoos, scar tattoos, ear stretching, neck stretching, hair extensions, lily feet, wasp waists, lip discs, etc. etc. etc. Even European women bleached their skin in the 17. - 19. century to indicate their high social status. At that time, many died of mercury and lead intoxications.
But bleaching today is different from other beauty treatments and beauty fashions.
You write: "Part of the error you guys are making is that you tend to view skin bleaching from a racial and a colonial perspective. We need to get this colonial stuff out of our heads ..." This sounds brave, but no matter how much you try to ignore it: Neo-Colonialism is perhaps more vivid than ever, and the sooner Africans (and Europeans) accept this fact and take action against it, the better. For me, skin bleaching is a symbol for resignation and submission. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 11:55:37
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Serenata, I have said this before: personal freedom is limited to the individual. Once the individual's freedom harms or encroaches on another's there is a violation of someone's rights. Parents are mere custodians of their children; there is (in legal terms) a fiduciary relationship between parents and their offsprings. Although I am not in position to verify your gross allegations about Ghanians bleaching the skin of their children, I do know that there are "child endangerment" (even child abuse) laws, and depending on where you live such acts could be subject to punishment of course depending on the severity of the harm if any. I know many smokers expose their families including young children to second hand smoke and thereby endangering their health, and despite efforts in many places to ban public smoking, I am not aware of any law that punishes parents for exposing their children to the extremely dangerous cigarette smoke ...
If you suspect any child abuse or endangerment by any such Ghanians or any one for that matter, please call the police and report it. Do not take the law into your own hands by embarking on an uncalled for finger-pointing exercise. Afterall when all the facts come out your suspicions may be wrong.
I would not knowingly do anything that will endanger the health of my children. I love my kids too much for that, but above all I do not have a right to do that. I do not also have a right to harm my self in such a way that contravenes the law or public policy. Suicide and drunk driving for example violates the law and contravene public policy. Alcoholism and drug addiction may not be violations of the law, but are against public policy because they often end as charges of the state. So alcoholics and the addicted may have to enter compulsory treatment because government has a vested socio-economic interest in getting these people back on their feet. I do not know of any law anywhere that classifies skin bleaching in a similar category.
Serenata, what makes bleaching different from other beauty treatments? Could you please tell me?
The action I suggest for Africans and Europeans to take is to acknowledge the fact of colonialism/neo-colonialism, then get it out of their heads and move on. We must not get stuck with it forever, must we?
Bleaching as "[a] symbol for resignation and submission" is your personal opinion (hardly a fact); it may not be so for Michael. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 09 Apr 2009 12:07:19 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 10:15:21
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Kayjatta, sometimes parents do terrible things to their children without knowing, and of course without wanting to harm their kids. Parents who smoke in the presence of their children are just stupid, asocial and careless because today everybody knows about the dangers of second hand smoking.
But who tells those Ghanaian parents that bleaching is harmful for their kids? In Germany, you can buy this stuff in every African or Asian shop, and you see the advertisements even on CNN. The European authorities just don't care if black people ruin their health, and this is why even today many black parents may believe that bleaching is harmless.
Some years ago my husband went to an African shop because he wanted to buy a body butter. When he came home he saw that the product the friendly Ghanaian lady in the shop had recommended him was a bleaching creme. She had automatically supposed that if a person as dark skinned as my husband wants to buy a creme, it should at least be something to bleach the skin. My husband brought the rubbish back to the shop and asked the lady angrily if she wanted to poison him and if she disliked his complexion. She was horrified, because she had not been aware that she was selling harmful products.
Only yesterday I saw a film and a documentary about the Contergan disaster in Germany. From October 1957 to November 1960 the German pharmaceutical company Grünenthal (up to this day alive and kicking!) sold a sedative-hypnotic called Contergan. The active ingredient was Thalidomide. From Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide)
Thalidomide was thought to have been developed by German pharmaceutical company Grünenthal in Stolberg (Rhineland) near Aachen although this has recently been challenged by Dr Martin W Johnson, director of the Thalidomide Trust in the UK[3]. It is thought that thalidomide was developed by the Nazis as an antidote to nerve gas such as sarin.
It was sold from 1957 to 1961 in almost 100 countries under at least 40 names, including Distaval, Talimol, Nibrol, Sedimide, Quietoplex, Contergan, Neurosedyn, and Softenon. Thalidomide was chiefly sold and prescribed during the late 1950s and early 1960s to pregnant women, as an antiemetic to combat morning sickness and as an aid to help them sleep. Before its release, inadequate tests were performed to assess the drug's safety, with catastrophic results for the children of women who had taken thalidomide during their pregnancies.
From 1956 to 1962, approximately 10,000 children in Africa and Europe were born with severe malformities, including phocomelia, because their mothers had taken thalidomide during pregnancy.[4]
No need to say that Grünenthal refused to take any responsibility for the immense damage done, and that they were supported by the judiciary and political 'friends'. They had to pay in the end, but only after a long legal battle. Even 40 years later, Grünenthal tried to prevent the broadcasting of the above mentioned TV film, and if you google 'Contergan', you'll find the company's version of the dramatic events on page 1.
So much for the chemical/pharmaceutical industry's sense of responsibility. For the colonialism question: What do you think why India has such a strong anti-bleaching campaign? These activists do not only refer to health problems caused by bleaching, they mention the colonial aspects too.
Being aware of a danger doesn't mean getting stuck with it. I as a German, for example, won't try to get the Nazi regime in Germany 'out of my head', because this is the best way not to fall for the Neonazis of our days.
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Edited by - serenata on 11 Apr 2009 10:22:28 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 13:10:20
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| thanks Sere for the last two postings. i for one can't put it any better. skin bleaching is and will continue to be associated with inferiority complex in the practioners. this is mental state, unless, beauty is seen beyound the colour of the eyes, as Haile Silasi puts it or beyound the colour of the skin, bleaching will be glamourised. the white south African regime use to catagorise people according race and colour, and this practice is still in many societies continues untill today. In England, bleach creams are sold under the counter. it is illegal. time permitting i will photograph the different brands from shops, and bring it to the attention of trading standard. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 18:35:30
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serenata, thanks
Interestingly the “law” is not natural, in the sense of “just being” without human influence, rather it is made by man - “a social contract” based on certain criterion with the intention of making life better and safe for all. This is why it is unlawful to take ones own life, suicide, is it legal to commit suicide in the USA.
Am sure you are against “FGM” as a traditional practice, and because of its side effects and its pros and cons for the individual’s quality of life that’s why many countries are finding ways to discourage it not only through dialog but also by shifting new laws (Egypt) and other means to regulate it.
You are supposedly, in support of discouraging FGM even whereas it infringes the individual’s rights. But am unsure of what your stance would have been if it where a product of and practiced by plastic surgeons in Holly Wood, ex. Labiaplasty.
"Part of the error you guys are making is that you tend to view skin bleaching from a racial and a colonial perspective. We need to get this colonial stuff out of our heads ..."
Should we be in denial, to think “this colonial stuff” has no effect on our worldview when the very basis of communication language, is colonial. Yours is an example of an argument not only of denial but internalized colonialism, and an exaggeration of the point. Hence it is clear that we are not paralyzed by it, as you imply. It makes more sense to negotiate the colonial mindset and worldview through discussions of this nature that makes us active, responsive, than deny the mania and be passive.
Nobody is advocating for racial purity rather encouraging diversity and its nuances, and the acceptance of what you are, black and proud, white and proud, green and proud, yellow and proud, red and proud etc. The truth is cosmetics surgery is mostly dictated by social reasons and not medical reasons therefore it needs be regulated, controlled and tamed as all societal problems.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 11 Apr 2009 18:41:16 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 06:36:23
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| In summary, Janko, Serenate and santa support Jammeh's illegalizing skin bleaching :) :) |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 12 Apr 2009 09:50:58 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2009 : 13:24:07
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
In summary, Janko, Serenate and santa support Jammeh's illegalizing skin bleaching :) :)
For a Turkish, you are well amassed in Jammeh's world. any way, i would like to commend janko for a well constructed arguement. we have to negotiate our position vis-a-vis our self-respect and love for the skin we are in. Not long ago, i was reading a pro-ocnservative paper in England, the daily mail. a commentator was ranting on against some white folk who did something terrible. i can't recollect the actual incidence but a serious crime. He the commentator have this few words to say "A WASTE OF COLOUR". this few words of course can be interpreted in many ways. but reading the commentary in full, one finds the man angry at a white person comminting such a serious offense.
rightly so. why should a black man or woman try to hate the skin he/she is in? some of this people looks very funny indeed. i hope, we stop trying to portray this despecable act as a life style choice. The sad effect of skin bleaching is that, once you start it, the hardest thing is stopping it. the skin is said to go even darker, and also, people became acustom to seeing them pale, a change of complextion is something they can't phantom. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2009 : 07:28:45
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I do not just see a huge body of medical evidence of "skin lightening" as a devastating public health issue as smoking or FGM are. All the argument presented so far are substantially philosophical informed largely by racial sentiments. I do not think such sentiments are sufficient reasons to take away individual (personal) rights even if such rights seem absurd to us.
But thanks Serenata, Janko and Santanfara for your takes on this topic ... . |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2009 : 19:41:52
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Your opinion is your right
It is very clear that legislature is closing up on smoking, as it is gradually becoming criminal to smoke in public places, at least in Europe; how about the USA.
The law and the idea of “personal rights” have their basis in philosophy (ical). The idea is to discourage skin bleaching not skin lightening, as you said.
I must have missed your pile of medical evidence of positive physical effects and benefits for the individual. I will not buy into the notion that whatever comes from Holly Wood is good, no; if FGM is wrong then it is wrong even in Holly Wood.
Kay, thanks for your efforts.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Formby
United Kingdom
246 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2009 : 01:47:44
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To put this slightly in perspective, there has never been a time in female history where there hasn't been some peculiar, expensive and (often) dangerous ideal of beauty, from mercury lightening potions to sunbed induced melanoma to having ribs removed to binding feet. The politics of control.
I hate the look of bleached skin. It looks unhealthy. I don't see the young black girls round here in Hackney doing it, only older first generation African ladies. I don't think it's a big issue amongst black British women. None of the black women in my social circle has ever done it, anyway.
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 20:01:59
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Kay, what did you make out of the watchman's take on bleaching on freedom? I find it very interesting and far reaching. The man should be commended for looking at the issue through different angles. check it out if you haven't.
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 21:09:46
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FREEDOM NEWSPAPER
THE NATURE OF SELF-HATE
Nigerian Author Picks On African Women!!!
As Author Praises US Ambassador To Nigeria
By NAIWU OSAHON
African women are losing sense of self-worth. Their idea of feminine elegance is to wear white female hair styles. Flip through any issue of our week-end newspapers and picture magazines to see how far this disturbing trend of self-hate by our females has gone. No class of black women is exempt: film and sports stars, musicians, students, models, literary gurus, politicians, academics, business executives, civil servants, religious leaders and followers, unemployed or working class spinsters and housewives, are trying desperately to pass for white. They are all pampered as teenage daughters, with charming African hair styles, which they promptly abandon for white female hair styles as soon as they become of age to choose hair styles for themselves ... |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 17:37:11
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Janko she couldn't have hit any harder. i will say to her, this is a step in the right direction. If our sisters can't be comfortable in their skin, well then, what hope do we have?
brillaint. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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