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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jan 2009 : 15:28:31
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Hypocracy! Of course. Her is the hypocracy. It is wrong to erease Israel from map. But it is ok ........ to add israel to the 'map'. They created a country from nothing,
this is precisely the point. Western politicians will not wait to impose facts like the RIGHT of Israel to Exist. The RIGHT of Israel to defend itself bla bla bla.
the implication being that the Palestinians dont have the same Right to exist freely as a people from blockages, even needing permission to go to the mosque, in their own land, to defend themselves?
the only way to respond to bullies to use strenght/force.
in Lurkers initial posting, she mentioned how 'they' wanted to find a home for the jews in Africa! would the Africans fighting for their land today be 'terrorists'.?
and Kay, the ANC did have an armed wing. just like all the Palestinian factions. the point there is not whether the struggle is an armed one or not but the consistency of the wrongly support of the Western governments that support the aggressive power/occupying power and labelling the freedom fighting groups as Terrorist. that's the point. there is a common factor here. |
Edited by - njucks on 04 Jan 2009 15:42:27 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2009 : 20:01:29
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http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/04/israel.gaza/index.html
If you have a choice, choose peace to war; hope over fear.
With the death toll at 485, it is really a sad day for Palestineans.
Now you wonder, where victory truly lies. All I am seeing is humans killing one another; in this case counsins -decendants of Prophet Ibraheem.
Further, what will the hypocrities supporting terror in Israel or Palestine say about the latest?
It is to a point of no return. Terror from either side must stop. The aggression is far from civility.
I pray to God to bring peace in this area, & Long live the true Palestinean struggle.
D.......
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Edited by - Dalton1 on 04 Jan 2009 20:14:39 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2009 : 21:49:16
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http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief006-13.htm
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2009 : 07:37:35
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
. Gaza and Iran-backed HAMAS has to come to the realization that they have to live with Israel on the map, and that they have to give up violence and embrace peaceful negotiation in order to win real sympathy and success for their cause...
Therefore NO SYMPATHY AND SUCCESS FOR THEIR CAUSE Always blame games and stubborness. Why can't HAMAS pursue its political cause; including "RESISTANCE & LIBERATION OF PALESTINE"
Let the GENOCIDE/CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY STOP AND WAR CRIMINALS WIPE OUT OF POLITICS! So far on record on these astrocities included many civil casualties, indiscriminate mass murders, bombing of Islamic University, MOSQUE, hospitals and Palestinian government infrastructures. Cowards flying F16s as bombers and chatty politicians talking nonsense!
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE IN THIS WORLD!"
Hey Kobo, nice to hear from you again. It's been a while, I hope all is well with you.
Having said that, I believe there is justice in this world. However, we have to contend with the fact that human history is not always a pleasant one. May be Charles Darwin is right afterall; but here is what I think needs to happen:
1. HAMAS needs to give up its (Iranian-sponsors') idea of wiping Israel off the map.
2. HAMAS needs to stop provoking Israel by firing rockets (and stones  ). HAMAS fired 200 rockets at Israel even before Israel reacted by bombing and invading them, but hypocrites (sorry for using that word) like you do not see that. All you see is the reaction of Israel to HAMAS' (war criminals and terrorists)
3. HAMAS needs to stop sending suicide bombers across to Israel.
4. HAMAS needs to stop using Palestinian civilians and their civilian institutions ( Universities and mosques) as a shield and storage of weapons.
5. HAMAS needs to join forces with Abu Marsin of the West bank in embracing the two-state peace process that will result in the creation of the Palestinian state alongside an Israelite state based on the 1967 boundaries.
HAMAS' lack of interest in the peace process is the reason that Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia are all disappointed and angry at (the terrorist group).
Thank you.
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Edited by - kayjatta on 05 Jan 2009 07:39:33 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2009 : 08:07:51
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Kayatta I agree with all of the above.
But equally you must agree that the Israeli response has been disproportionate. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2009 : 08:42:45
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| Bev there is no such thing as disproportionate response in this case. If someone is firing a barrage of rockets at your civilian citizens indiscriminately while hiding behind their own civilians and civilian institutions, what do you do? Just throw one bomb at them and allow them run away and regroup and start firing at you again? I happen to think that the threat of HAMAS needs to be dealt with once and for all so that one day Palestinians can finally have peace and their long-dreamed state... |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2009 : 09:30:09
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Bev there is no such thing as disproportionate response in this case. ..........
Kay, perhaps you may wish to list some of the things Israel needs to do. You seem to see the funny side of the slaughtering going on.
if you wish to impose the principle that every country has the right to defend itself if attacked, then fine lets turn it around. In late 2007 Israel enter Syria and bombed a facility they claim was a nuclear building.
Should Syria, here provoked by Israel, response 'disproportionately'. The Fact remains that Israel did it because the US backed it and it knew it will get away with it. How many times have India being attacked by Pakistani trained terrorists-lately in Bombay. The Arab nations you mentioned are silent because they have resigned to the fact that the only way they can leave in peace is to not criticise Israel and be on the wrong side of the US. they're jokers.
if the Bantaba existed 30 years ago, i can see you and I having this debate, perhaps about Guinea Bissau, where with the current thinking, the PAIGC under Cabral would be labelled as terrorists for what was a legitimate struggle.
once Americans start buying gasoline at $40/gal then they will weigh their options and see whether supporting Israel blinding is worth it.
personally i think Hamas will only gain from all of this, invasion will not stop rockets made with a simple welding machine. |
Edited by - njucks on 05 Jan 2009 09:33:20 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2009 : 09:48:39
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Njucks Guinea Bissau's struggle for independence is a different situation. The Portuguese needed to leave Guinea Bissau and return to their own country. There is no such option available to Israel. Israel is fighting for its own nation state (the borders are subject to dispute, however) which HAMAS refuses to recognize despite numerous U.N. resolutions...
I however think that there is a lost opportunity here though. Before the expiration of the cease fire (truce)the international body (U.N. and other stakeholders should have moved in and provide incentives (and perhapd Israel make further concessions) for HAMAS to continue the truce and lean toward the peace process. But I do also recognize that when you are dealing with an enemy who does not even believe that you (the opposing party) have a right to exist, it is difficult to achieve anything...
FYI, whenever we start buying gas at $40 per gallon we'll invade Saudi Arabia . |
Edited by - kayjatta on 05 Jan 2009 09:59:15 |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2009 : 15:51:32
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Kay,
It beats my imagination how you could be so hard-hearted by making a mockery of the pathetic carnage unfolding in the Gaza strip.
I have noticed that you are 'anti-muslim'too. I am not bothered by it though. I have also noticed that you are totally brain-washed.Your thoughts are attimes more sadistic than bloody thirsty Bush. But remember, NO MATTER HOW LONG A LOG STAYS IN A RIVER, IT NEVER WILL BE A CROC.
There have been gr8 postings from non-muslims here. Most of whom see the human side of things rather than religious bigotry. Lest you forget, if you are still christian, that many palestinians are christian too.
The situation requires logic and not emotions for all parties. |
madiss |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2009 : 21:34:17
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quote:
2. HAMAS needs to stop provoking Israel by firing rockets (and stones ).
Kay
There are more than 500 people died. And that is not a situation one make fun off. Have some sensitivities, not all of the ones dying member of HAMAS, there are also children and women who throw stones. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2009 : 22:02:04
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Key
Please help me to understand that. There had not been any country called 'israel' before 60 years ago for more than 1000 years. There were not even enough Jews on the current Israel land to create a country. 'Your government' bring all the jews from Europe and settle in today's israel and create a country. That country later expand its borders against palestinians, syria, jordon and egypt. So why is it not legimate the question the existing of israel that has been created short time ago from nothing with migration. Why is it legimate to create a country that was not on the map, but due to threat, force, migration create a country at the expense of others. If you object Ahmedinejat about wiping of israel from the map, how come you have no objection wiping palestine from the map with the help of your government 60 years ago. Israel seems to use this 'victim' role for last 60 years. It is ok, they were the victim of hitler, I accept that but why do palestinian pay the price. Why not create a country in the England? There are many areas empty in your country.
quote:
Bev there is no such thing as disproportionate response in this case. If someone is firing a barrage of rockets at your civilian citizens indiscriminately while hiding behind their own civilians and civilian institutions, what do you do? Just throw one bomb at them and allow them run away and regroup and start firing at you again? I happen to think that the threat of HAMAS needs to be dealt with once and for all so that one day Palestinians can finally have peace and their long-dreamed state...
What about 'right to defend' principle of palestine. They are the ones lost their country to Israel which was not existi 60 years ago. Do you expect them to accept that they can't go back their land, they can't have a government. What about the relatives of 500 death now. Don't they have right to be angry. The problem is when you call HAMAS, it is not organization. HAMAS can't be seperated from its people. HAMAS is supported by most people from HAMAS. Israel knows they can't get rid of HAMAS and israel knows that this attack will make HAMAS even stronger. Let me tell you the truth about this attack you did not know. Let me enlighten you.
ISRAEL DOES NOT WANT PEACE AND LIKE STATUS QUO. THEY WANT HAMAS TO EXIST SO ISRAEL GOVERNMENT CAN KEEP THE STATUS QUO WITH THEIR MOJO PLAYING VICTIM ROLE THEY HAVE USED FOR YEARS. THEY PROVOKE PALESTINIANS TO BE EVEN MORE RADICAL. TIME IS ON ISRAEL SIDE.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2009 : 06:51:26
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The situation is not really a chicken and egg story. Let us go back to the history.
2009.....ISRAEL IS ON THE PROCESS OF WIPING OFF THE PEOPLE CALLED PALESTINE FROM THE EARTH.
Palestinians attack Israel.
Israel attack Palestinians
Palestinians attack Israel.
Israel attack Palestinians.
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Israel capture the land post 1948
Palestinians attack to get their country
Israel capture the land from creation to 1948.
Palestinian attack Israel.
British Empire created the country called israel from nothing by the migration.
Our genious briths empire because of 'christian crusade and holy reason, they decided to creat Israel. Because bible say so. Because they are chosen.
There was no country called Israel. 1945
1944. No Israel.
1943. No Israel.
1942. No Israel.
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1500. No Israel.
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1432. No Israel.
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1400. No Israel.
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1300. No Israel.
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1000. No Israel.
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339. No Israel.
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25. Jews living under Roman empire.
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0 Jesus was born.
..
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..
1000
...
1345
..
..
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1410 Jews escape from Egypt, settled in Palestine.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 06 Jan 2009 07:02:14 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2009 : 06:56:01
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quote:
Originally posted by MADIBA
Kay,
It beats my imagination how you could be so hard-hearted by making a mockery of the pathetic carnage unfolding in the Gaza strip.
I have noticed that you are 'anti-muslim'too. I am not bothered by it though. I have also noticed that you are totally brain-washed.Your thoughts are attimes more sadistic than bloody thirsty Bush. But remember, NO MATTER HOW LONG A LOG STAYS IN A RIVER, IT NEVER WILL BE A CROC.
There have been gr8 postings from non-muslims here. Most of whom see the human side of things rather than religious bigotry. Lest you forget, if you are still christian, that many palestinians are christian too.
The situation requires logic and not emotions for all parties.
Madiba, where is the mockery? Where is the "anti-muslim"? |
Edited by - kayjatta on 06 Jan 2009 06:57:36 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2009 : 09:43:31
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Key
Please help me to understand that. There had not been any country called 'israel' before 60 years ago for more than 1000 years. There were not even enough Jews on the current Israel land to create a country. 'Your government' bring all the jews from Europe and settle in today's israel and create a country. That country later expand its borders against palestinians, syria, jordon and egypt. So why is it not legimate the question the existing of israel that has been created short time ago from nothing with migration. Why is it legimate to create a country that was not on the map, but due to threat, force, migration create a country at the expense of others. If you object Ahmedinejat about wiping of israel from the map, how come you have no objection wiping palestine from the map with the help of your government 60 years ago. Israel seems to use this 'victim' role for last 60 years. It is ok, they were the victim of hitler, I accept that but why do palestinian pay the price. Why not create a country in the England? There are many areas empty in your country.
quote:
Bev there is no such thing as disproportionate response in this case. If someone is firing a barrage of rockets at your civilian citizens indiscriminately while hiding behind their own civilians and civilian institutions, what do you do? Just throw one bomb at them and allow them run away and regroup and start firing at you again? I happen to think that the threat of HAMAS needs to be dealt with once and for all so that one day Palestinians can finally have peace and their long-dreamed state...
What about 'right to defend' principle of palestine. They are the ones lost their country to Israel which was not existi 60 years ago. Do you expect them to accept that they can't go back their land, they can't have a government. What about the relatives of 500 death now. Don't they have right to be angry. The problem is when you call HAMAS, it is not organization. HAMAS can't be seperated from its people. HAMAS is supported by most people from HAMAS. Israel knows they can't get rid of HAMAS and israel knows that this attack will make HAMAS even stronger. Let me tell you the truth about this attack you did not know. Let me enlighten you.
ISRAEL DOES NOT WANT PEACE AND LIKE STATUS QUO. THEY WANT HAMAS TO EXIST SO ISRAEL GOVERNMENT CAN KEEP THE STATUS QUO WITH THEIR MOJO PLAYING VICTIM ROLE THEY HAVE USED FOR YEARS. THEY PROVOKE PALESTINIANS TO BE EVEN MORE RADICAL. TIME IS ON ISRAEL SIDE.
Stop acting like Robert Mugabe arguing with history. Atleast Mandela and the ANC did not argue the fact of the Boer settlers. Or should we chase the North African Arabs (not berbers) from the African soil? Didn't U.K "owned" HongKong and just recently "sold" it to China? Now you might wanna revisit the Balfour Declaration and see where Palestine and Israel come from (notwithstanding the exodus). |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2009 : 20:53:27
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Kayjatta
Kayjatta, as usual, your pretty words are empty like a pretty baloon. Or you are confused. You are in the debate you can't win when you support the aggresor guilty.
Show me where Mugabe is arguing the history? Give some quote. Don't come with empty words. Mugabe was a HERO to many africans. Even opposition in his country is giving him his credit. It is now different story.
Mandela and ANC did not argue the fact of the white settlers presense in South Africa. Mandales' problem was not about white settlers being in Africa. It was about whites are owning south africa including africans inside. South african's just like palestinans want their freedom which taken away.
There are number of jews under ottoman empire for almost 400 years, thanks to ottoman empire who accept jews refugee from european inquisition when he declared that he is the protector of jews which stop earlier jewish massacre in Europe.
However, the migration we are talking about happened in a few year after the end of second world war and 1948 establishment of israel. We are talking about now.
This is not history. It is happening now. People who lived before israel even exist still exist. Do you still not get it. That is why
ISRAEL DOES NOT WANT PEACE NOW. Because they want to make the creation of israel part of history.
Berbers? North Africans. Are you talking about 1200 years ago. Most north african population for example berbers are using the language of Arabic. Why because that time Arabic language was influencial. Even Ottoman Empire for 600 years, gave up Turkish language which was not as superior as arabic language in terms of science and literacy. And most important, the language of Arabic is the language of holly Quran. So, not arabs come to North Africa, it is mostly locals adopted the language.
UK did not 'owned' HongKong. It was 'rented' from UK and the lease expired in 10 years ago, and the owner of Hongkon, which was always China, did opt not to lease the land of HongKong to UK.
The problem is this problem is not historical. It is now. There is nothing we could do about norhtern africa that happened 1000 years ago, but something done about south africa and now the right owners of the south africa controling africa now. We are in the part of historical process, 'now' to stop this holocoust commited by the state of israel against palestinian people and give the land to the palestine.
Belfour Declaration. Come again. Where palestine and israel come from, exodus. huh? what? I am lost, i have no idea what you are talking about? COme again? Let us see what the belfour decleration. Hmmm. Piece of letter written by a politician. Not historian. Did palestinians have say anything about this decleration? Did this decleration official UN document. This is just a piece of document as part of british politics? Tell me what you mean by belfour decleration.
Are you saying, israel is a legimate country because Arthur James Balfour says so?
All belfour decleration proof that I was right. Perhap I should be greatfull to you that you remind me the document that support my arguement here. Why would you mention about belfour decleration which is supporting my argument. that is hillarious. You are not supposed to disclose something like that. thank you.
All the decleration proves that the problem we are having now is because of usual suspect of many world problems. British Empire. The creation of israel is NOT legimate at all. It was planned by british empire, executed by british empire and now at the final state of 'wiping of the palestinian people from the earth'.
More than 600 people died so far. First of all, I am shame that I am not doing anything for this tragedy as a human. And I am shame that 1.5 billion muslims, we are not doing anything for our brothers and sisters in palestine.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 06 Jan 2009 22:52:45 |
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