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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 21:25:33
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Try not to get too personal! We all want the same thing. A better, fairer world. 'Make poverty history'.........
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2005 : 01:46:48
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Oh, I donīt think I can get too personal behind a computer screen...
But then again, who are you to tell me what to do? Arenīt you the one who suggested black man go back to Africa if he hates Sweden that much? P.L.E.A.S.E! And what are you Bev and Nokia Man getting so offended by, that someone is criticizing white ppl? I am white like you, live with black people everyday and see what struggles they go through simply because of their colour! I am not one of you who live in a white world and go and visit Africa every now and then just to meet black ppl. You guys simply donīt know what youīre talking about. You seem to have absolutely no clue what Iīm talking about. Why donīt you try and listen to a "bitter black person" s story without getting all defensive and "OH, WE HAVE MANY WHITE MEN WHO SUFFER TOO, IīM NOT RACIST!!!" and yada yada. Your comments about poor white men canīt be compared to what a black person goes through here in the West. That is redicilous! Arenīt black people allowed to say anything negative about whites? Of course they are, this is supposed to be a free world where everybody should have the right to say their opinion. So what are you getting all so exited about? Maybe life is all good for Africans in your country, but not in my country. My man gets discriminated, almost every day there is some incident. You know what incidents if you have ever lived with a black person. The things he go through Does Not Happen to a White Boy nomatter how unemployed the white boy may be. And you may yada about this how much you like but for me, Iīm outta here. Peace and happy new year! |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2005 : 03:43:51
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The ugly boy "hate" is the crown word. It includes racism, tribalism, intolerance, et al.. (his twins , sisters, brothers).
The boy exist from people of all colours-(shamefully), but it is an unseen dress-typically innermost wear but demonstrated by actions.
The instances where the individuals didn't hide it is known to humanity in numerous, and a living testimony to the fact.
-the neo-nazi, Germans (then)-Hitler and his notorious group. Followers of Hitlers' evil still continue to have tatoons carrying that evil logo, with number of men they murdered.
-Kuu klux klan (kkk) frustrated our black americans brothers in some parts of America, and the skinheads don't hide their intentions or beliefs. Thy would kill and bite.
-Some of our black brothers in America are pinned for being racist-like brother Malcolm, Lois Farkhan, Larry Pinkney and his panthers predecessors-Hou etc.., Brother Sharpton, Rev Jackson . They talk about racism couragiously, and by virture of the approach they give to racism, they have a good stance and truly fighting the pala, and wrongly termed racists.For a fact, when you talk about tribalism, and racism-you are termed to be one, which is the case for these brothers here. These are avoided topis, with look arounds before uttering words of racial profiling.
The boy is very complex and really urgly. He is a shirt that any can wear, based on total hate, and rather it not just cos some one is black or white.
In America though, i like to say the ordinary are 'aight', and Gov'ts sounds more coated with the hateful pala. Gov'ts do any thing to bring strong black brothers down, and the dream to the white house remains a mystery for any other colour except whites. They won't let you. (Watch acting by Mays Gilian-Chris R).
The law practically rules against the shameful act, but following history in the 60's in America, i refer you to read writings by August Wilson (fences), James Baldin (Sonny's Blues) etc.., it really shows the pictures of racism in America. We cannot have it any better today-
This is a hard boy to tackle anywhere, any forum.
To me, it is an attitude built on total hate bricks. Racism isn't successful, and he gets less famous as time moves to civilisation.
Happy new year equals. |
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Amna
Gambia
76 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2005 : 07:58:50
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Dear GambiaBev, Nokia Man and Babylon,
You all come across like very good people and I note to to your commendation that you pursued this discourse which is intrinsically personal and passionate with restraint and respect.
I want to add a few words. First that racism or tribalism or any form of discrimation is irrational. But we as human beings collectively are evolving but still have a long way to go.
The history of black and white relationship is both difficult and intriguing. Yet somehow we endeavor to deal with it. Open racism has been consigned to extreme fringes who mostly are unskilled, undereducated members of society. The bigger problem in my opinion is institutional racism, which now libreal and progresive movements and organizations like "make poverty history" are beginning to tackle.
Gambiabev, dear lady, [if my assumption of your gender is not wrong], I am almost compelled to defend against your statement to the effect that islam is fatalistic and does hold us back. It is true that Islam, Christianity, Judaim, the 3 Abrahamaic religions believe in "pre-destination" as a belief in an Omnipotent and Omniscient God means that one has to accept that God Knows Everything, past, present and future and this makes it difficult to believe also that mankind also has the divine right to chose, choice. So we claim that everything happens by God's Will and Grace and that our duty is to persevere with faith and do actions sanctioned by our holy laws. So I dont believe that "FATALISM" per se means abandonment of effort, rather I quote a famous hadith [saying by the Prophet] that " Place your faith in God but tie your camel securely to a post".
I believe that God Gave us inalienable rights and ability, freedom of choice, even to believe or disbelieve Him [Him in the legalistic gender neutral form as I dont believe God is limited to human concept of gender], that one has to strive for freedom, to do good, to ensure justice for one self and others, et cetera. These are enshrined in the much misunderstood and misquoted "Islamic sense of Ithtihad [jihad] which means to Strive". Jihad had been equated to mean Crusade and now practically interpreted as that. But there are historical and factual differences;
1. Jihad or to strive: It is said that it is the duty of every believe to strive in the name and path of Truth and Peace so if there is an injustice or something wrong, there are 3 phases of jihad i] to change the wrong thing if you can [by fighting or whatever legitimate means ii] to speak out against it, condemn it and iii] to repudiate it in your heart when the former are rendered impossible by virtue of inability or the inordinate danger you are placed in. Islam does not sanction suicide and if open speech or action can cause you harm as for example in The Gambia, then the third form is acceptable.
2. Crusade was a series of wars declared against the rising Arab/Islamic empire in the Middle Ages and after Muslim forces captured Jerusalem from a dying Byzantine empire. Crusade were Holy Christian war against the Muslim forces.
The two cannot be equated as the same. There is nowhere Islam sanctions holy war and forcible conversion and rules of war are governed by strictures, only fight in defence, when the adversary stops fighting, stop too, do not hurt old men, women, children and non armed persons, do not engage in poisoning of wells, destruction of livelihoods etc. SO NOWHERE CAN THE ACTIONS OF TERRORISTS GROUPS LIKE Algeria's AIG, AL QAIDA, HAMAS be justified. Indiscrimate suicide bombings as in London and New York are not acceptable and legitimate forms of warfare according to Islam strictures.
[Oops -Sorry for long lecture]
Actually, Gambiabev, I can understand the need to defend one's own when one feels unjustifiably labelled or attacked. I always write and argue that the mass majority of white people during the height of slavery, colonialism or even now, never took part, sanctioned or approved it, yet the minority that does it maligns the rest. It is unfair.
However, until after the second world war, most Europeans were not so much better off despite colonialism and slavery before it. Mass hunger and starvation was still a feature in Europe. However after WW2, social policies against hunger and poverty, illiteracy and poor health created within a generation a Europe that has almost wiped out poverty. WW2 and the advent of the Soviet Union revised the social charter in Europe, as Capitalism in Europe developed a human face in order to avert Communism. In the Third World, it is only now that first worlders are organizing and helping us do the same.
So to cut a very long write up, I must say we are all on the same page, and the struggle for a better world for all humanity continues. I salute you all and wish you all a prosperous New year and success in all your endeavours. |
Amna |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2005 : 16:33:50
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I am very upset and offended by Babylon. I wont be commenting any further on this forum.
Anna thanks for your support.
Just for the record, I was bought up in Leicester..one of the most multiracial cities in the world. Almost half the population is non white.
I have visited Gambia 4 times and intend to continue going twice a year. I dont just stay at the coast, but I go to the villages. I have two villages, Pirang and Kolior that are very close to my heart.
I am a compassionate and liberal person. I treat people how I would like to be treated. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2005 : 18:21:18
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| Iīm very sorry gambiabev if I offended you. I admit, my language and attitude is very hardcore sometimes, but I didnīt mean to upset you. Please, feel free to continue commenting on this board. |
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Amna
Gambia
76 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 09:45:45
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Dear Gambiabev,
You are welcome and my sentiments are heartfelt. Please accept Babylon's apology, it was not meant to offend. Sometimes, when the subject is personalized, the reactions are like that but " we cannot always generalize". There are good and bad in everyone. At the end of the day, racism, tribalism, creedism, ethnicism all stem from a simple human feature, the instinct to self preserve and to survive.
We humans, continue to evolve and resolve these issues and take our natural instincts. What makes humans uniques among all other creatures [in my humble opinion] is that we are the most adept at changing our environment and defining ourselves. While our environments shapes us somewhat, we also shape our environment, in cold cilmates, we developed storage for food foraged during the winter months, we discovered economy, we developed fire and central heating but winter climes shaped us to understand that nature is an adversary to be confronted, tamed and changed.
In hotter climes like Congo or even Rwanda, nature is benovelent and kind, provides us water, food, forests and animals. We developed symbiotic relation with nature, we dont do massive loggng, we take only what we need, we even ascribe mythical powers and spirits to the trees and forests that provide us food year round. We also discovered that if you forage too much and try to store it, it spoils. To this day, spoilage of harvests in Africa account for some 40% of produce from garden markets and farms.
So humans in colder climes learned to store and save, to reap and ravage, get all you can when you can [before winter] and we in warmer climes, learned to live and let live, in fact, our attitude to resources is now called lazy while the northern one is ruthless. Both shaped by their environment. But then we change our environment. Today, you have Africans and Blacks in cold climes and whites in warm climes, in the earlier instances, the clash of cultures had devastating effects, imagine the horrors of Genghis Khan and his mongol hordes on the Middle East, Persian and South Asian cultures where life was refined and not harsh. It was the same effect on Spanish conquistadores on Inca and Mayan civilizations or Portuguese on Africans. The English and French in the Americas, Australia and India.
Today one would wonder on why the maliciousness, the hatred, the pain and the wanton destruction of human lives and civilizations [Environmental shaping], a few hundred Spanish or Portuguese or English could destroy major civilizations in the Americas. In fact in North America, pure blood first nation people [the new politically correct term for Red Indians- of course they were not Indian] are almost extinct. The answer is their actions and attitudes were shaped by their environment, they believed it was destroy or be destroyed. Today, a few centuries after that, the descendants of those people are conservationists, humanists, activists as they have evolved in line with their environment.
Similarly, formerly benign cultures have adopted some ruthlessness as warranted by their survival in a changing environment. In fact today, the clarion call in the world exemplified by the calls by Dominique Villepin is "equality of opportunity". We are trying to create a world where all children have equal opportunity to education, clean water, basic health and basic food and equal access to opportunity and then outcome will depend on the individual while a social net covers the base.
This is a purely human instinct, changing our environment. Today, the fearless and terrible Mongol hordes are minorities in the lands they ruled and terrorized and until lately were a despiced and descriminated servant class, now their lot is improving as generally humans are setting new standards for all humans and even for animals.
So to Babylon and Gambiabev, dont take anything personally, accept them as human, a collective condition and a collective responsibility.
Happy 2006 to you all and ALUTA CONTINUA to make the world a better place for all its inhabitants - ALL, humans, animals, spirits, free spirits, Buddhists, Taoists, Christians, Muslims, Jews, ALL
Peace and God Bless. |
Amna |
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