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ylowe
USA
217 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Dec 2005 : 05:43:35
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During the days of apartheid all blacks around world stood up against apartheid. Poloticians, Musicians and people from all walks of lives condemned oppression. The blacks in the United states demonstrated in the capital city saying "Free our brothers in South Africa". Now that we are free or partly free from the white man, we are face with a new problem which is the black man oppressing the black man. The point is when we are oppressed by the white man we seem to do something about it but when oppressed by our fellow black we dont do or say anything about.What is wrong with this ?
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Amna
Gambia
76 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2005 : 07:59:32
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Dear YLove,
You raise a very valid and fundamental question which I will attempt to answer honestly.
No, tyranny is tyranny and colour does not matter. Some of us have argued that plus ca change, nothing has changed, the white overseer whipping away at the slaves have been replaced by the black overseer whipping away even more furiously to show "massa" that he can even be worse or meaner than him.
Why Apartheid was universally opposed, yet the West stands by and watches African or Black tyranny.
First, Apartheid was not universally opposed in the Western world. Great Britain, Australia, Canada, the US, even the Eastern Europeans stood with their kith and kin as in Zimbabwe today. It was progressive forces who joined their African human brothers to say NO..NOT IN THIS DAY AND AGE can we stand such an odious philosophy that holds one superior to another so OVERTLY.
But with the collapse of the OVERT/OPEN racial superiority structure, the underlying and fundamental structure remains unchanged. In fact, white and coloured South Africans continue to reap the benefits of the Apartheid and racial exploitation system and Thabo Mbeki, the ANC like the rest of the African world have two choices, becomes Massa's Black Overseer and be rewarded accordingly with recognition, respect, some limited modicum of economic gain or go like Mugabe, against Massa and be taught the lesson of the centuries, your name, reputation, country, government will be vilified and destroyed and you will be hounded and hunted down and probably killed or somewhat immasculated a la Patrice Lumumba or Kwame Nkrumah. Infact, also Sekou Toure, who was driven "nuts". This sounds far fetched like some conspircay theory, but the CIA declassified its "Psych Ops" [Psychological operations] against Ghaddafi in the 1980s and reputedly was sent him a video of him in his private bathroom just to show him what they can do and reputedly Ghaddafi did not sleep for some 9 days and was irky and jumpy and erratic.
Today, revolutionary Ghaddafi is G W Bush's lap dog and has turned himself into No 1 acolyte in Bush's so called War on Terror, more appropriately War of the CIA Created, trained and politicized Islamist.
Finally, I answer, Black tyranny like black on black crime in the US and UK, are by products of the centuries old slave mercantilist so called Capitalist system. The long walk to freedom is not yet half way there, but the biggest struggle is the fight for liberation against mental slavery.
Mental slavery is the condition that a wild animal, which chained to a post for the first time, struggles and fights but when it is broken, ie its spirit is broken, it will stay close to the post even if the chains are removed.
We, Africans and third worlders are in that state, which Kwame Nkrumah called the Neo -colonial phase, which literally means NEW COLONIALISM, self governing, economic colonial entities.
Again, sorry for long convoluted answer, but these are complex questions. Thanks and God Bless. |
Amna |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2005 : 09:04:26
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I am white and NOT in favour of ANY form of racism. PLEASE don't judge everyone white to be the same. I am a HUMANIST. I believe people are capable of being moral and 'good' without fear of a higher power. I believe humans an essentially the same the world over.
PART of what keeps The Gambia back is the muslim faith. It encourages people to be fatalistic and accepting of their lot in life. EDUCATION is the key to NOT accepting what we are born to, but striving for a better life. (I am not anti muslim and think the faith, like christianity, has lots of good points...but it does make people think their lot in life is gods will). |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2005 : 12:07:15
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I would say that there is still undergoing apartheid going on in many parts of the world, but itīs hidden under the table. In the west Africans are still not getting the job or same benefits as a white man. I live in a country where on the surface people show a good face and behind the back show another. There is so much racism still going on, just look at how black people are living in the ghettos in USA. Is it all to blame on themselves? No, itīs because wherever a black man goes he or she has to prove that he or she is twice as good than the white man inorder to succeed in life. If you are from Africa you are seen as a savage still to this day! And here in Sweden No matter how educated you are, you will be very lucky, one in a million if you get the job you are qualified for. That is why there is a saying here that "Sweden has the best educated taxidrivers in the world". Here the doctors are driving the cabs and cleaning other peoples ****! Ainīt that fantastic?
There are numberous of examples of modern discrimination: A black man goes to the club and donīt get in because of a number of reasons, the next minute a white dude walks in without problems altho heīs wearing the same sneakers as the black man. The African donīt get to the jobinterview because his name sounds so foreign and African, the African gets stopped in the park by the police -they want to check his eyes and search pockets for drugs, the black man in New Orleans, USA gets shot to death by the police in broad daylight because he was SUSPECTED for some crime, later the head of police said it was ok to shoot him, he was pointing a knife at them (WHATS A KNIFE AGAINST A GUN, sorry 10-20 guns pointed at him?!)etc etc. the list can be made long.
Yes, I would say that the white man still holds himself superior. If not so, why is there so much discrimination in this world against the Africans? And why do white man get away with it so easy? Because it is a damn racist world! That is one of the reasons why the West donīt care about the problems in Africa, that is also why people in Africa do not get AIDS preventing medicines. That is why the West was just watching on when the hutus killed the tutsis in Rwanda. (Where was the worldpolice USA by that time, they who normally stick up their nose in every other countrys business???)The racists donīt care what black people do to eachother, they support it! Time to change that, and it really starts with us white folks. White folks need to realize that we are all human and not better than any other. I donīt want to be priviliged because Iīm white! That is embarrasing, not a world I want to live in. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2005 : 21:42:53
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You seem very angry by this! You need to channel that anger into positive action.
USA is a very racist country. If new orleans hurricane had happened in any other part of usa I think response would have been very different.
I am from Leicester in the midlands in England. It has a VERY GOOD reputation for race relations. It has positive discrimination to the extent that being white is a disadvantage! The original local poulation of ageing white people ( c of e) feel increasingly marginalised!!!
I am a women...so in some ways the discriminatin in the work place is similar to black men. You have to prove yourself...STILL!!!!
I feel that each person should be taken on their merits. Good attitude? Well qualified? Capable???
Of course this realies on the interviewer NOT being racist or sexist. I was once refused a job in a government deartment in england because the man needed the job more than me as he had a family to support. That was only 20 years ago! I hope we have come a long way since then!!!!
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Nokia Man
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2005 : 21:56:12
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quote:
I would say that there is still undergoing apartheid going on in many parts of the world, but itīs hidden under the table. In the west Africans are still not getting the job or same benefits as a white man.
I'd like to ask what your proffesion is? What skills do you have that are equal of this 'white man' you speak of who in your eyes are recieving some sort of superior benefits? What's your job?
I'd like to congratulate Bev on her attitude as I find myself in very much the same postion. I happen to live on an Island off the coast of England yet we welcome all people from all over the world. When I was learning my trade 20 years ago I was taught in part by a black man. Theres chinese, asian, African and even a GAMBIAN who's children attend our childs school. He works in the local hospital, has a nice house, nice wife, a Mercedes and everything his white counterparts have. I have seen him laughing in local eating houses with white people and walking with white people. I have never seen a sad look or look of disapointment on his face ever? Surely if this white supremecy thing was alive as you say, he'd be one pissed of dude having spent most of his life educating to a PHD only to find whites get a better deal?
I'd still like to know what trade you have and what your job is? Perhaps more information could make for a better understanding of why you feel this way?
NM. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 00:03:35
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Nokia Man, what does my occupation have anything to do with my opinion?
You and Bev are very lucky who live in such good places where racism doesnīt exist(?). That sounds almost too good to be true, I assume you are white and feel like you have to defend yourself after reading my posting, are you offended by it? In that case, my appologies. I am not an angry person but I do feel that I have the right to be angry when people are being treated unfairly day in and out, whatīs wrong with that? If you see whatīs happening in the world, not only your own village, and if you have a heart surely you will be mad over many of the unjust things that happen in the world. And being angry is not always something negative, infact more whiteys should be angry and not just accept the bad circumstances as most black people are living under today. I am infact a very positive person, but my heart is bleeding for the unjustice world that we actually do live in. I do not know what world you live in, but it sure sounds idealistic and not all live in an idealistic sociaty where everybody join hands and sing cumbaya and dance over the rainbow together. That to me sounds like heaven and something to strive for, but it is unrealistic especially in my country where people from other countries do not get a fair chance to prove that they are as good as any other white swede in their profession. You can not deny that many Africans do get treated like dirt still today long after slavery days, can you? You canīt say that all black men are succes stories with a fancy benz in his garage can you Nokia Man? I wish it could be like that as you just explained but unfortunately it is not the reality for most Africans, so quite frankly I do not know what you are talking about. In my country, they rather throw away your job application if your name is Mohammed or something similar. If that in itself is not discrimination then what is? Itīs a white mans world we are living in, come on now... Bush and Blair are white.... And how many black presidents has America had? Why is that?
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 00:48:26
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If you hate Sweden so much and you are African, why not come back to Africa and change things from within?!
I am white and english. I am not racist. I treat each person I meet as they deserve to be treated, according to how they treat me.
I dont live in Leicester now, that is where I am from. I live in Yorkshire. In the part of Yorkshire I live in there are very few black people.
In general I think MOST English people are fairly tolerant of different races. Sometimes they will be racist, but it is usually when they feel threatened by the speed of change. It is FEAR that breeds it.
Now, in many African countries the 'boss' is black. Does he treat his work force better than the white boss?
Power and wealth have a corrupting effect and SEEM to be colour blind!
It is OK to be angry about slavery and colonialism. I am angry about it too! But please don't blame todays english white people fro ast generations misdeamours. That is like me blaming young people in Germany for Hitler! SILLY and POINTLESS! We need to look to the future and work out how to help Gambia succeed.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 00:54:02
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What you also forget is not all white men are successful either. The council estates of england are full of unsuccessful white english men.
The general rule is if you have good qualifications and good attitude you will succeed in Britian.
In fact a black man stands more chance than a white women!!!!! |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 00:56:55
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What is your job? Are you qualified and being passed over? If so, why not return to Gambia and give your skills back to your homeland?
The Gambia needs its qualified people to return home and become a vibrant middle class. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 01:05:08
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| I am infact a young white swedish Woman, born and raised in Sweden. And yes, my country really sucks when it comes to human rights. They send sick immigrant children back to their countries, ALONE in some cases. A great shame, nothing to be proud of as a Swede. Nowadays it is politically incorrect to be an open racist, so the uptowners chose to hide it the best way they can. But sometimes it becomes So very obvious... |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 12:23:56
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Dont your imigrants have the right to become Swedish???? They should then have the same rights as the local population.
In England there would be uproar if people were sent away to another country for medical treatment. It DOES happen, but it is usually white poeple that are paying for it themselves!
We do have illegal imigration, but legal imigrants have the same rights as the local population. We have a long history of welcoming people in. Of course not everything is rosey! But it is relatively peaceful and the majority of British people are NOT racists.
Perhaps you should get involved in politics and try to change the attitudes of people. ???? It is a slow process. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 12:56:59
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Yes you can become a citizen after many years in Sweden if you have your papers in order. What I meant is (sorry my poor English)that Sweden sends back those asylum seeking immigrants to their countries, children too, to countries where they risc their life. Sometimes they split the families and send them to different countries. First the immigrants have been waiting here in Sweden for many years to get asylum just to get rejected in the end and forced to leave the country. You can only imagine what it does to these poor people and especially the children who already have learned the language and made friends, started a life here. They brake all human rights rules here and not many seem to care, Sweden is a country of "neutral" cowards who donīt like to protest too much.
It happens nearly everyday, Sweden wants to close itīs borders and it really makes me to wish Olof Palme would come back from the skies and create some justice over here. Unfortunatly all good people gets shot, Olof Palme, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, JFK... |
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Nokia Man
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 15:57:54
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I'm not going to fanny around with this thread but instead tell you just how I feel.
First of all, as Bev told you there are many many many white people in Europe and the UK who are well below the poverty limit and without jobs or chance of a job. To many of them it's their choice, to others it's financial difficulties between what the stae hands them and what Ģ difference is working 40 hours a week.
Secondly, I may be wrong but I doubt your white. You do come across as a very bitter black person. Terms of speach such as quote:
more whiteys
I have never heard said by a white person before, and having had many many Swedish, German, Russian, Chinese, Japanese and Thai students lodge with us over the last 24 years not once have I haerd that term.
You may be white, but perhaps you're taking this black versus white thing a bit too far?
What you'll need to keep in mind our friend Babylon, is whilst your posting anti white sentiments of blacks being oppressed by the white man, theres many many more blacks out there studying who will one day be my doctor, surgeon or dentist. He'll have got there in just the same way as his white counterpart, by getting off his arse and practicing his dream of getting what he wanted. Benz and all.............
NM. |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 20:18:58
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yeah whateva... Happy New Year to u 2!!! donīt 4get ur pipe now... |
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Nokia Man
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 20:23:04
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You too Babylon. Have a happy one.
NM. |
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