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snuggels
960 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 14:20:06
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I see on the news a young girl has been awarded compensation for been held as a slave. It stated slavery still goes on in many countries in Africa(Any in Gambia)
It is interesting as it was going on long befor europeans invaded and took up the idea and exported many to america and subsequently banned it as inhuman. But it appears has still been going on since then and practiced by many african people/nations and see nothng wrong in it
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Edited by - snuggels on 28 Oct 2008 14:24:57 |
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Bodwick
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 14:35:00
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Mauritania is still struggling to move into the modern era beyond slavery...
Mali has it's fair share. And onward ever further East...
It depends how you define slavery. Paying your ancestors debts by working for nothing. Working just for food and a place to sleep.
Sahara is a hard place and the non-blacks along it's entire length have the whole place sewn up. |
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
-- Robert A. Heinlein The Notebooks of Lazarus Long |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 14:48:22
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AFRICAN BUYING AFRICAN SHAS BEEN GOING FOR CENTURIES, the problem is now people are not seeing that it is wrong. i cannot get my head around it, surely the religions in the regions know it is wrong to own a child the ones i saw were muslim, can anyone advise if the christian groups are owning slaves.
IF THAT IS THE CASE I WOULD START A CAMPAIGN OF NAME AND SHAME THEM. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 14:57:57
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"...It is interesting as it was going on long befor europeans invaded and took up the idea and exported many to america and subsequently banned it as inhuman...."
Are you sure the invading europeans took up the idea in/from Africa. Or did they have their own experiences from home with them? Hence Serfdom did flourish in Europe long before the invasion of Africa.
Serfdom
Feudalism in Europe evolved from agricultural slavery of the late Roman Empire and spread through Europe around the tenth century; it flourished in Europe during the Middle Ages but lasted until the nineteenth century. The Black Death broke the established social order and weakened serfdom.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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Bodwick
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 15:10:02
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| The institution of serfdom in medieval Europe was separate and distinct from chattel slavery; serfs were tied to the land and obliged to work the land for their lord, but they were not chattel property. Serfs could not be bought or sold, and usually could not be removed from their land, absent criminal or civil violations. |
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
-- Robert A. Heinlein The Notebooks of Lazarus Long |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 16:19:21
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I think it is important we point out that when the west got involved in slavery, the concept methamorphosized into a thing with a racial twist (whites enslaving blacks and others). Yes, there is slavery going on in Africa as the case in Niger points out, however we should stop being apologetic and pointing fingers. Slavery is going on the world over. Just check the the difference between the top 1-10 percent haves'in the world and the rest of its population and you tell me someone is not getting the short end of the stick.
We may not be aware of it, but slavery is going on all across the world today. Case in point, how many people work for less than a fair wage? If we look at critically look at slavery, we can see that it all boils down to making people work without pay or inadequate pay. I dont know about you, but I dont see any difference between slavery and making someone work for inadequate pay. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 17:23:13
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
AFRICAN BUYING AFRICAN SHAS BEEN GOING FOR CENTURIES, the problem is now people are not seeing that it is wrong. i cannot get my head around it, surely the religions in the regions know it is wrong to own a child the ones i saw were muslim, can anyone advise if the christian groups are owning slaves.
IF THAT IS THE CASE I WOULD START A CAMPAIGN OF NAME AND SHAME THEM.
Jambo
Quite to the dislike of many, Europe had its fair of slavery too. For some reason, history books are almost silent on tnis practice in Europe. The slaves were not Africans anyway but Europeans.
Slavery in early medieval Europe was relatively common. It was widespread at the end of antiquity. The etymology of the word slave comes from this period, the word sklabos meaning Slav. Slavery declined in the Middle Ages in most parts of Europe as serfdom slowly rose, but it never completely disappeared. It persisted longer in Southern and Eastern Europe. In Poland slavery was forbidden in the 15th century; it was replaced by the second enserfment. In Lithuania, slavery was formally abolished in 1588.
Throughout this period slaves were traded openly in most cities, including cities as diverse as Marseille, Dublin and Prague, and many were sold to buyers in the Middle East. The town of Caffa in the Crimea was called the capital of the medieval slave trade, but an overland route to Caliphate of Córdoba took pagan and dualist Slavs from Kiev through Lviv and Prague, at that time the borderlands of Christianity, this arduous land route competing with the North-South route by river which led to the Black Sea.
Quite contray to popular believe, European slaves were sold in the middle east long before the Trans- Saharan Slave Trade which shipped blacks to the Arabian Peninsula.
Infact St. Patrick was once captured and sold as a slave. Saint Patrick said to have been born Maewyn Succat , was a Roman Britain-born Christian missionary and is the patron saint of Ireland along with Brigid of Kildare and Columba. When he was about sixteen he was captured by Irish raiders and taken as a slave to Ireland, where he lived for six years before escaping and returning to his family.
Everey society had its form of slavery as it evolved.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 17:33:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodwick
The institution of serfdom in medieval Europe was separate and distinct from chattel slavery; serfs were tied to the land and obliged to work the land for their lord, but they were not chattel property. Serfs could not be bought or sold, and usually could not be removed from their land, absent criminal or civil violations.
Serfdom in Europe was predated by REAL SLAVERY. Infact the period conciding with serfdom led to what legal minds and revolutionaries now call the "MAGNA CARTA" an agreement between the Subjects and Crown for some rights as citizens.
Today the Magna Carta is worshipped by all libertarians around the world as the basis of democracy we have today. But if one looks at the Magna Carta in today's contaxt, it nothing more than serfdom. It never gave the citizens REAL RIGHTS like freedom of Choice, religion, power to elect and be elected which are core ingredients of democracy.
Eventually, it will take a French man in the person of Napoleon to refine it further by the words "Egalite, Fraternite etc".
Europe came a long way and what you see today is a product of centuries of wars, fammine, revolutions and civil strife unprecendented in human history. From the "slaughter in Lepzig" to the "Retreat from Moscow", Europe is full of ironies. You might be suprised that there was even a "Bread Rovolution" in France.
Witchcraft was quite prevalent in Europe and not uncommon for people to be burned at the stakes alive.
People like Martin Luther with the reform in religion were in response to the excesses. He too had to die for his believe in religious rights. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Bodwick
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 18:37:40
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Now that we’ve reached pre-serfdom times I’m going to play my ‘I blame the Vikings’ card.
It’s high time these people accepted that it was way out of order to come boating over to Britain and not only steal people away into slavery but actually move here and set up home!
It was bad enough when William the Conquerer turned up and settled but those early Vikings really should get all the blame for setting the standard.
Can we now come up to date and wonder why young girls are still sold to old men and if perhaps sticking so closely to the writings in the Koran may be playing a part in continuing slavery into the twenty first century.
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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
-- Robert A. Heinlein The Notebooks of Lazarus Long |
Edited by - Bodwick on 28 Oct 2008 18:38:37 |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 19:22:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodwick
Now that we’ve reached pre-serfdom times I’m going to play my ‘I blame the Vikings’ card.
It’s high time these people accepted that it was way out of order to come boating over to Britain and not only steal people away into slavery but actually move here and set up home!
It was bad enough when William the Conquerer turned up and settled but those early Vikings really should get all the blame for setting the standard.
Can we now come up to date and wonder why young girls are still sold to old men and if perhaps sticking so closely to the writings in the Koran may be playing a part in continuing slavery into the twenty first century.
I am not going that path with you. To suggest that a particular religion is condoning slavery is uncalled for. Good luck and perhaps someone may wbe willing to go that path.
If we dig in history, there is a lot of blame to go around. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 13:40:02
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bodwick, what writings |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 21:32:15
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
............... the problem is now people are not seeing that it is wrong. i cannot get my head around it
well said Jambo. Kons i think this is about slavery in Africa, a problem happening now. to imply that it happened in europe, or anything similar centuries ago is in fact crazy! there is no link.
where you trying to go, so what the Irish starved before, should we turn a blind eye on Darfur and let them starve too? |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 06:32:22
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Njuks
Quite to the contrary. The line of debate seems to insinuate that slavery is synonymous with africa. I was putting slavery in a historical context. I do not condone it. Besides just because it happened in Europe does not mean that it should be condoned in Africa.
Two wrongs dont make a right.
What i am putting forward is that every society developed its own form of slavery and that is a historical fact. No one can deny that. The example of St. Patrick was used to give it a more relevant example.
I believe every one is born free. Society and greed seems to take over and most of the time its the weakest in our societies who are used as slaves. Its simple economics.
Howver, its well documented that some slaves sold in the United Sates were actually of free born and some were princes captured in war. An example is Prince Ibrahim from Guinea who was granted freedom through the help of a United Sates President and returned to his land but died a few hundred miles away from his town in Guinea Conakry. He died in Liberia around 1823.
There is a movie about him called "Prince Among Slaves"
Dafur is very dear to me and i believe that "..injustice anywhere is a threat to justice every where".
I hope i have explained myself better. You know dimwits like me are slow to learn. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 11:47:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodwick
The institution of serfdom in medieval Europe was separate and distinct from chattel slavery; serfs were tied to the land and obliged to work the land for their lord, but they were not chattel property. Serfs could not be bought or sold, and usually could not be removed from their land, absent criminal or civil violations.
Bodwick, this is true, but don't forget that European serfs had to serve their masters as soldiers, too, and troops could be leased by friendly lords. It also happened that contingents of serfs were resettled when a ruler needed settlers in a certain region of his kingdom, and sometimes these settlers came from another kingdom. This means that even if Europe had no slave markets the masters had absolute power over the lifes of their serfs. The German expression 'Leibeigene(r)' points out that a serf was his/her masters' property. |
Edited by - serenata on 01 Nov 2008 11:48:44 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 11:48:29
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The system of Chattel slavery is completely different from the slavery that operated historically in Africa. The African "slave" in Africa was more a kin to a indentured servant than a chattel slave as was the case in the Americas. The African "slave" in Africa had more rights within their society and were seen as human. Where as the Chattel African Slave was not recognized as a human being under the law. His/her status was below a white and just above a horse. Most agrarian systems pre European expansion around the world relied on free labour to grow crops but known had developed such an horrific system over a prolonged period as the Europeans had done.http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Chattel+slavery.
Peace Sister Omega
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Sister Omega |
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