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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 22:53:57
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| how turkish police can be bad in the movie.... was the link to the debate.. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 23:02:24
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"...charge police officer if there is any institutional racism..."
turk,
you and me have completely different understanding of what institutional racism is. My understanding is,it has nothing to do with if for example a police officer is well trained or not but has to do with the whole institution or system the police officer is employed or works for, ex. police department. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 23:28:07
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ok. Janko, the police lack of training makes the situation worse.
Person A has chance to be racist in Gambia 50 %.
Person B has chance to be racist in UK 50 %.
Person A work for the organization that has lacking proper training for human rights, democracy and solid law system to fight against racism.
Person B work for the organization that has solid traing for human rights, democracy and solid law system to fight against racism.
Person C is more protected from a racist attitude from Person B than Person A. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 21 Sep 2008 23:53:25 |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 23:30:59
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
how turkish police can be bad in the movie.... was the link to the debate..
ahhhhhhhh now I understand lack of education/training |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 23:33:52
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What is institutional racism?
"The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin which can be seen or detected in processes; attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantages minority ethnic people."
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 23:44:54
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therefore my example is typical for institutional racism:
His reference 'you toubab' is an approriate professional service. My being toubab has nothing to do with the situation. Let me give you example.
The police officer says: Are you insulting my intelligence?
The police officer says: Is this n igga insulting my intelligence?
The police officer says: Is this white dude insulting my intelligence?
The police officer says: Are you black dude insulting my intelligence?
The adjective/noun white, black, toubab is what it makes the police response institutional racism. When you put my race or ethnicity in the sentence, you are highlighting my being toubab in this situation. But the law officers must treat me regardless of my ethnicity. No? The officer must be colour blind. By telling me 'toubab', isn't he racially profiling me?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 21 Sep 2008 23:47:11 |
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black orchid
United Kingdom
74 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 23:51:35
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quote:
Originally posted by njucks
quote:
Originally posted by MeMe
OK - as I understand it - what Njuks/Janko are determined to say here is that racism is only to be found in the west (ie white peoples' attitudes/behaviours towards other colours/races) and what non-Gambians have experienced in the Gambia is a lack of understanding of other cultures!
MeMe,
i didnt say that.you said that. what i said was as a contribution is that perhaps what has been narrated are cases of bad holiday experiences which ironically happens to gambians as well. Thus it is applied to gambians too. Therefore the discrimination is not based on skin colour or race. thats my point.
all the expereinces mentioned here as Leokat pointed out, gambians have experienced them too.
Your own definition shows that racism implies a sense of superiority/inferiority.
walking down the street and having your purse snatched is not an act of racism.irrespectivive of what you want to belief.
nobody said racism only happens in the west nor is anyone defending/denying it. read b/w the lines.
Black orchid examples are clear for everyone to read. In Africa where the most of the native population belongs to the same 'race'. ethnicity becomes the easier option to discriminate against.hence most of the trouble on the continent. This is not racism as they all belong to the same race!
no one said discrimination is only in the West.
Exaggerate all you want.
if you read Leokats contribution you will see thats its shares his/her experience in a balanced way by looking at both ways.
Race Relations act 2000 states that
"a racist incident is any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person".
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 23:59:56
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
therefore my example is typical for institutional racism:
His reference 'you toubab' is an approriate professional service. My being toubab has nothing to do with the situation. Let me give you example.
The police officer says: Are you insulting my intelligence?
The police officer says: Is this n igga insulting my intelligence?
The police officer says: Is this white dude insulting my intelligence?
The police officer says: Are you black dude insulting my intelligence?
The adjective/noun white, black, toubab is what it makes the police response institutional racism. When you put my race or ethnicity in the sentence, you are highlighting my being toubab in this situation. But the law officers must treat me regardless of my ethnicity. No? The officer must be colour blind. By telling me 'toubab', isn't he racially profiling me?
you have missed the point
1 officer can be racist.
We all agree individual racism exists any where in the world.
For institutional racism to exits it is an organisational failure, whether Police or Education or Corporate business it is a totally different ball game.
It is not one single instance but an organsation that is designed and manulipated to marginalize it does not exist in Gambia. |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 00:17:01
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quote:
Originally posted by black orchid
[quote][
Race Relations act 2000 states that
"a racist incident is any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person".
The purpose of this definition is not to prejudge the question of whether a perpetrator's motive was racist or not: that may have to be proved if, for instance, the perpetrator is to be charged with a racially aggravated offence. The purpose of the definition is rather to ensure that investigations take full account of the possibility of a racist dimension to the incident and that statistics of such incidents are collected on a uniform basis.
Its actually more a code of practice which was brought in to encourage victims of attack to report the crime even after further investigation this is proven is not the case |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 00:31:38
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hz
i believe it exist. I agree on our disagreement. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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black orchid
United Kingdom
74 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 00:37:12
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yes you are ofcourse right Hiz princess, but I was actually responding to Njucks who said that the incidents listed by various people were not infact racist, but "bad holiday experiences".
I PERCEIVE THE INCIDENT WHICH HAPPENED TO MY HUSBAND AND I TO BE RACIST.
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 00:47:00
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quote:
Originally posted by black orchid
[quote]Originally posted by njucks
[quote]Originally posted by MeMe
Race Relations act 2000 states that
"a racist incident is any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person".
Do not forget the context in which the above act refers to and is applicable, the act can not be universal i.e. valid in the whole world, hence it has to have a historical reference to the place/country/nation that enacted it. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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black orchid
United Kingdom
74 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 09:06:23
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yes Janko.
I think I was just slightly irritated last night by Njucks statement that people had not suffered racism, when he is not in full possession of the facts and certainly was not there where my husband was verbally abused and harassed for about half a mile. It was relentless and I was actually scared, as these men were very intimidating.
The children who were throwing stones, they were just kids behaving badly, and the "football strip scam" was just that, a scam!!!!
And I know its hard for some people to accept criticism of their countrymen, but I was actually replying to a particualr topic called "racism in Gambia." If someone had introduced a topic, eg "why do you love Gambia" ..that would have been a different story .
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 10:46:14
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quote:
Originally posted by black orchid
I think I was just slightly irritated last night by Njucks statement that people had not suffered racism,
my apologies. but i must insist that you misunderstand my posting. What i actually said, with particular reference to your examples was that ''yours are clear for everyone to read''. what i meant was that you gave better examples of what were racist incidents.
anyway. i did also say very early on that it is our duty as gambians to listen to what others experience in our country and try offer explanations if possible.
i am not defending anything.
with Regards to the Race Act 2000 you quoted. dont you think it creates more problems than solutions atleast from that single definition.
anybody can percieve anything.e.g. i have a restuarant, a bunch of tourist walk past and enter another restuarant belonging to another person , say a non-gambian. i cannot percieve this as racism or can I?
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black orchid
United Kingdom
74 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 17:27:03
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My apologies Njucks I have totally misunderstood you!!!!
As for this particular act causing more problems, yes I can agree to a certain extent. My friend works in a bank and you would be surprised how many people use the “race card” when they can't get an overdraft etc.
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