 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
snuggels
960 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 01:07:42
|
I think you have the same problem with the military. Whilst walking along the beach with a lady friend from Ghana she was beckoned by an officer and asked where she was from, he meant her home but she replied I’m a tourist from Ghana like my friend here from England his reply was you’re your not a tourist you are a black women and you shame us the way your are dressed. She was wearing a modest bikini not a mini bikini and a shawl around the waist. She was told to cover up or be arrested but on the beach were ladies with very skimpy bikinis’ even top less. So if racism is using ones power over another,
Was this Racism black against black?
|
 |
|
|
Formby
United Kingdom
246 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 02:40:05
|
| Racism is an ignorant response, and there isn't a race on earth that's immune to it. But where I see 'racism' on the surface, scratch it I always see 'social class'. Put people together, they aren't racist. The surface differences become invisible. But divide em, and fearful suggestion seeps in. *They* want us to be racist. It saves them a job. |
Edited by - Formby on 19 Sep 2008 02:41:57 |
|
|
|
njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 10:15:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by MeMe
OK - as I understand it - what Njuks/Janko are determined to say here is that racism is only to be found in the west (ie white peoples' attitudes/behaviours towards other colours/races) and what non-Gambians have experienced in the Gambia is a lack of understanding of other cultures!
MeMe,
i didnt say that.you said that. what i said was as a contribution is that perhaps what has been narrated are cases of bad holiday experiences which ironically happens to gambians as well. Thus it is applied to gambians too. Therefore the discrimination is not based on skin colour or race. thats my point.
all the expereinces mentioned here as Leokat pointed out, gambians have experienced them too.
Your own definition shows that racism implies a sense of superiority/inferiority.
walking down the street and having your purse snatched is not an act of racism.irrespectivive of what you want to belief.
nobody said racism only happens in the west nor is anyone defending/denying it. read b/w the lines.
Black orchid examples are clear for everyone to read. In Africa where the most of the native population belongs to the same 'race'. ethnicity becomes the easier option to discriminate against.hence most of the trouble on the continent. This is not racism as they all belong to the same race!
no one said discrimination is only in the West.
Exaggerate all you want.
if you read Leokats contribution you will see thats its shares his/her experience in a balanced way by looking at both ways.
|
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 10:36:47
|
turk,
can you please explain what you mean by;
"...I disputed, I said no, she might have had gambian link but she does not have the citizenship....., because same constitution indicates if someone born to a gambian parent, can be gambian but if same person became another citizenship/citizenships that means this person give up her right to be gambian..."
Secondly, you seem to disagree with the definitions of racism and institutional racism given, please give us your definitions. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
|
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 21:28:00
|
that means, someone have right to became gambian if one of the parents is gambian. however, if the person chooses other citizenship (s), this person is not gambian. it was juat a legal debate with a police officers. Janko, again, you are focusing on irrelavent part of my posting. The citizenship debate is not important here. Focus on the police reaction to me when I win the argument of citizenship debate.
what disagreement on definition. if i am treated bad because of my race, that is racism. no? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 19 Sep 2008 21:41:12 |
|
|
|
Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 21:50:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by snuggels
Was this Racism black against black?
No |
|
|
|
Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 21:54:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by turk
There was a discussion with a police officers about my daughter. My daughter was born to a Gambian mother. But she does not possess the gambian citizenship. I had some confrontation with an officer and he told me that wheather I like it or not my daughter is a gambian. I disputed, I said no, she might have had gambian link but she does not have the citizenship. The police say, refering the gambian constitution, as her mother is gambian she is actually gambian. Which is not true, because same constitution indicates if someone born to a gambian parent, can be gambian but if same person became another citizenship/citizenships that means this person give up her right to be gambian. The police got offended and I remember his resposne 'you toubab insulting my intelligence?'. I said no, i disagree with you with little concern as the police had authority over me. Basically, he can arrest me, put in the jail and I can't do nothing. I had to go to police station to resolve the issue. One would say same police would have similar sitution with a gambian too. That could be true. But in this case I was quarter percent toubab and he was black gambian. If I was in UK I would not have an concern about telling police **** off. But in Gambia I was concerned. System does not have checks to reduce the impact of racism. That is why the racism situation would be more difficult in Gambia. That is the difference to me. The institution racism exist in Gambia like everywhere else and the impact is even more.
Turk I do not understand why you would argue over your daughters ethnicity?
Some people argue that nationality is determined by blood line not place of birth maybe this was meant by the comment made.
In fact it ,(if I understand your post) seems to suggest there was some sort of confrontation between you and the officer.
If you told a Officer in the UK to **** off in a confrontation you would probably be taken to the station and charged with breach of the peace.
This isnt institutional racism on any level, whether your black or white this is upholding the law. |
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 22:20:46
|
Thanks Hiz Princess, that’s the point am trying to make to turk, but don’t know how.
turk, the intention of a written or verbal discussion is to listen to others too. Don’t you think the policeman was trying to tell you that your daughter has the right to have dual citizinship?
turk, I ask for your definition, because you seem to miss the ones given herein, and they do not support your claims. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 19 Sep 2008 22:26:37 |
|
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 23:36:29
|
princes. I suggest you re-read my post one more time. i am not arguing about my daughter's ethnicity. I am arguing about her citizenship. In official terms. My daughter does not have gambian citizenship. Of course she is half gambian, but where am i disputing this fact on my post. Yes, I have confrontation about the officer who does not even know his constitution. the police has claimed she is gambian citizen because of mother, i disputed. My daughter is not gambian citizen. when we were entering, we had to get visa. when we get some government services we pay extra fee as a foreign citizen. so where is the ethnicity arguement when we are entering to gambia. the immigration officer would look at the passport and would allow my daughter tourist visa unlike other gambians would enter to gambian without even passport.
Personally, I found british police officer to be best in terms of law enforment education, law etc. They have proper education for policing. Not like the ones in midnight express.
janko
you don't get it, do you. she might have right to dual citizenship,but until i and the mother, with the consensus of both parents apply the citizenship of gambian, she is not gambian citizen. especially if she grant two citizenship, that is denounciation of gambian citizenship. By getting two other citizenship, my daughter has given up her right to be citizen at the moment. I suggest you to read your constitution. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 19 Sep 2008 23:49:24 |
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 17:08:01
|
“…she might have right to dual citizenship, but until i and the mother, with the consensus of both parents apply the citizenship of Gambian….”
Are you sure you are not confusing “Citizenship by Naturalisation” with “Citizenship by birth.” Hence the consequence of dual-citizenship eliminates the need to renounce ones Gambian citizenship.
I would appreciate your lecture on the Gambian constitution; hence you claim to understand it better, why not, let those who know tell those who don´t know.
|
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 20 Sep 2008 17:09:45 |
|
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 00:07:31
|
no i am not confused. You could have right to a gambian citizenship because one of your parents but you ain't gambian until you use this right and register your child. especially you go and register your child canadian and turkish it is obvious you are not interested in that right. it is duel citizenship which allow only TWO citizenship not more. for example, according to turkish law, you can't have more than two citizenship, also, you need to ask permission to leave the turkish nationality in order to obtain the other citizenship if you already have another citizenship.
it is unfortunate, the gambian enforcement officer does not know about the law. that was exactly my point. as racism potentially in everywhere, but to deal with it, you need a stable institution like law enforcement, educated law officers, or judiary system. without that the police would tell you 'you black man is insulting my intelligence'. And there is not much you can do about that. but you still don't blame the police officer who does not receive proper training and most important a few tousand dalasi (a few hunderd dollars) salary. The scape goat on racism, UK, at least, there are stable institutions to fight against racism.
janko, seem like you are the only one needed some lecture, the others seem ok. let me know if you need help on other areas of your constitution, i am more than happy to assist you.
|
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 21 Sep 2008 00:15:45 |
|
|
|
Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 22:07:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Thanks Hiz Princess, that’s the point am trying to make to turk, but don’t know how.
turk, the intention of a written or verbal discussion is to listen to others too. Don’t you think the policeman was trying to tell you that your daughter has the right to have dual citizinship?
turk, I ask for your definition, because you seem to miss the ones given herein, and they do not support your claims.
Your welcome
sometimes in any conversation people confuse terminology or cannot think of the correct word this does not mean that their voice is any less valid.
Unless someone is willing to 'receive' information, the information is at best not understood and at worst ignored. |
|
|
|
Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 22:12:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by turk
princes. I suggest you re-read my post one more time. i am not arguing about my daughter's ethnicity. I am arguing about her citizenship. In official terms. My daughter does not have gambian citizenship. Of course she is half gambian, but where am i disputing this fact on my post. Yes, I have confrontation about the officer who does not even know his constitution. the police has claimed she is gambian citizen because of mother, i disputed. My daughter is not gambian citizen. when we were entering, we had to get visa. when we get some government services we pay extra fee as a foreign citizen. so where is the ethnicity arguement when we are entering to gambia. the immigration officer would look at the passport and would allow my daughter tourist visa unlike other gambians would enter to gambian without even passport.
Personally, I found british police officer to be best in terms of law enforment education, law etc. They have proper education for policing. Not like the ones in midnight express.
Turk I did say if I understood your post correctly, I made an assumption (fault on my part) that you were discussing this on the street.
I made the point of the terminology being easily mistaken for meaning one thing, when in fact its a totally different thing. It happens in life all the time we just have to look at this thread to see that.
However you cannot complain of racism when your behaviour against an official is challenging, maybe even antagonising .
wouldn't an easier solution had been to ask to speak to another higher ranking official just for clarity.
Off Topic
Incidentally I also think we have one off the best police forces in the world ,but I can assure you, despite your nationality if you behave in a challenging manner at any of our immigration departments you would be faced with the same outcome or even detention.
midnight express.... wasn't that Turkey???? |
|
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 22:29:34
|
The incident were related to racism with two reason. One, the police officer made racial profiling refering my being non gambia. The officer can't do that. If a british officer to do that, I WOULD said F off. Because, the police officer can't make remarks to your race, ethnicity or religion when dealing with you.
But most important point was, in UK, law enforcement staff is well trained. And if there is any racism incident, you would go all the way with the law to charge police officer if there is any institutional racism. In gambia you don't have much opportunity with the legal system if you are faced with discrimination. That is the point I am trying to make but no one give any credit so far. I would rather be discriminated in UK than Gambia, at least I have more confidence in the system that I will get something.
Midnight express, 1970s allan parker movie about someone trying to get drug out of turkey, caught and sent to turkish prison.
|
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 21 Sep 2008 22:44:52 |
|
|
|
Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2008 : 22:45:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by turk
The incident were related to racism with two reason. One, the police officer made racial profiling refering my being non gambia. The officer can't do that. If a british officer to do that, I would said F off. Because, the police officer can't make remarks to your race, ethnicity or religion when dealing with you.
But most important point was, in UK, law enforcement is well trained. So if there is any racism incident, you would go all the way with the law to charge police officer if there is any institutional racism. In gambia you don't have much system with the legal system if you are faced with discrimination. That is the point I am trying to make but no one give any credit so far. I would rather be discriminated in UK than Gambia, at least I have more confidence in the system that I will get something.
Midnight express, 1970s allan parker movie about someone trying to get drug out of turkey, caught and sent to turkish prison.
Turk this conversation will go round and around, its not that no one gives you credit, but I have, as many explained why your example does not warrant racism.
You seemed to have missed my point about your behaviour, it was this that was instrumental in your position and regardless of where you were the UK ,USA, Russia or the Gambia you would have received similar responses. Whether you would be more confident with the judicial systems ,is irrelevant.
I would rather personally not put myself in that position. I have been hauled into US immigration and detained though my own stupidity, a flippant remark ,which I did apologise for.
I too could have screamed racism, the only one pulled in out of 7 travellers and the only black face within the group, but that was furthest's from my mind.
Sometimes in life it pays to put your mouth in check.
I know the film just missed the link to what we were discussing |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
