 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
toubab1020
12314 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 20:11:28
|
| I am confused now,the variation between Snuggles figures and those of Hiz show a very wide variation,I don't really think that either of the figures can be relied upon,as both sources have vested interests,figures submitted to the home offics are not accurate as often the criteria for submitting the figures are changed,just to show the government in a good light.If Snuggles figures did originate from the BNP no wonder I fell over and was speechless!! |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
|
 |
|
|
snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 21:13:08
|
| The figures used by the BNP were thoes as issued by The National Statistics Office. If we cant belive the figures then no futher discussion. You belive what you want to belive If anything! |
Edited by - snuggels on 14 Sep 2008 21:56:48 |
|
|
|
Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 23:47:30
|
Toubab, I knew as soon as you saw the source of Snuggles stats your voice would return. 
You have confused me over your statement I fail to see how 42,019.00 documented hate crimes in one year show them in a good light
The national statistic's office and the home office use the same stats the National statistic's office get their figures from the British crime surveys compiled by the Home office.
As for the BNP I cannot possibly comment
Oh hell yes I can, what twisited bull!!!!
These are the actual statistics taken from the National statistics office they were collated in 2002/3 and published in 2005 the same Stats that the BNP doctored
Proportion of adults who have experienced a crime in the last 12 months: by ethnic group, 2002/03, England & Wales
In 2002/03, adults from a Mixed race or Asian background were more likely than those from other ethnic groups to be victims of crime in England and Wales.
Almost half (46 per cent) of adults of Mixed race had been the victim of a crime in the previous 12 months.
This compared with 30 per cent of Asians. Black adults and those from the ‘Chinese or other’ group experienced similar levels of crime to White people.
I find it ironic, even incredulous that someone trying to convey a nations 'racial' harmony would cite Neo Nazi propaganda to make this point. |
Edited by - Hiz Princess on 14 Sep 2008 23:59:34 |
|
|
|
snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 01:25:56
|
HIZ
"I find it ironic, even incredulous that someone trying to convey a nations 'racial' harmony would cite Neo Nazi propaganda to make this point".
________________________________________
You brought the BNP into this debate no one else? But as stated before the figures used by the BNP as published as far as Im aware are from the National Statistics Office. Even the first document you quote says its from the National Statistics Office so what is one to belive. I did not get this infomation from the BNP website No one is citing their NEO NAZI PROPERGANDA only you which most brits are against
Also when I asked
Hiz
“You think the brits (Britain) is a racist nation. I think there is more racism amongst our colored brethren Indians Pakistani Africans Asians against each other than from the average white guy
You replied
Snuggles I said Britain not Brits and again yes.
Also
You brought up the point about Intuitional racism not me and stated that you think Britain is an instatutionalised racist county this just is not true. Yes there are areas where no doubt this is true but the way you put it across if you were to belived you would think the whole country was corrupt this does nothing for racial harmony.
|
Edited by - snuggels on 15 Sep 2008 09:47:01 |
|
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 01:41:19
|
| sorry. what is the topic again? racism in gambia or uk? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
|
|
|
snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 02:09:24
|
Yes it is about Gambia but got side tracked by Hiz
Fought against it constantly in the UK though, not nice is it, being a minority and feeling marginalized based on the colour of your skin eh.
But did get it back on stream a bit on my posting yesteday the 14th
regarding racism against white people that own businesses in Gambia
So lets now have the views about gambia |
Edited by - snuggels on 15 Sep 2008 02:23:28 |
|
|
|
Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 09:39:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by turk
sorry. what is the topic again? racism in gambia or uk?
Turk it is in fact Gambia which there seems to be no evidence of any.
You asked about the UK still waiting for your experience/comparison with the racism you have faced in Gambia. |
|
|
|
snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 10:58:37
|
| Bit premature no evidence so far |
Edited by - snuggels on 15 Sep 2008 11:27:04 |
|
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 00:45:33
|
what evidence? Gambia has no statistics, institution monitoring racism. There is no publish reports. It is all about personal experience. Here is my first comparison.
- UK there are statistical data on racism. In gambia there is reliable metrics. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
|
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 00:46:55
|
| if you accept my personal experience in terms of racism in gambia i would debate the issue with you. However, I do not have evidence/facts/statistics. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
|
|
|
Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 08:43:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by turk
if you accept my personal experience in terms of racism in gambia i would debate the issue with you. However, I do not have evidence/facts/statistics.
Why wouldn't I accept your experiences
I never asked for statistics. Your experiences can be just as valid as data, as long as they are your experience.
You asked about my experiences here to compare. I only brought up data when I was questioned that has nothing to do with our initial conversation. I gave you two early examples of my experience these were never documented never reported to authority's because 'it was just the way it was'.
I am curious, I spend a bit of time there and with people from different ethnicity, I have a responsibility to them, as I have never been involved with or witnessed or even become a victim of racism in Gambia, but....
i'm not judge or jury just because it is not my experience does not mean it does not happen |
|
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 09:26:30
|
Based on my experience, being many countries in the world. Here is my assessment.
Every country has racism. Potentially anyone can be racist. There may be factors for some communities have more racism and the impact on racism greater than others.
First of all racism is about power. If you have more power on the other, your racism have greater impact. For example, a racist black man would not be significant in terms of harm in Germany where a black man do not have much power in terms of finance, political power or authority. Same black man would have more harmful if he was in Africa because he potentially have more power on others. I don't care who is 'racist' black or white. What I care is 'how much power' this person has over me.
Since our example is gambia. In Gambia many gambians do not like toubabs because of following reasons. Toubabs are too liberal (secular). As a conservative society they don't like it. If a toubab women talk about feminism or more liberal values, right there, black men would see whites as immorals individuals. This social fact would be valid for all. And English man may not like a pakistani because of life style or conservative muslim values, i.e. pakistanis view on muslim women.
Another reason would be toubabs are former imperialist. Wheather you like it or not, gambians do remember history and relate their poverty to imperialism. Especially when they see all the toubabs are having better life, they don't like it. They have similar view on Lebanase too. As lebanase are wealthir gambian may not like this fact. Historical reasons would be same reason for hate for europeans too. Austrians do not like turks because when turks threaten vienne with two attack on their city a few centuries ago.
There could be several reasons. Many reason would be similar in nations. But I am not really interested in these reasons because, regardless of the reasons, potentially these reasons can be in any community. Like I said, potentially any community can have same chance to be racist. What i am really interested how the impact of racism is reduced. This is where, in our example, gambia is different from UK.
1. A more educated society may be more tolarent towards other race. When you compare a English man vs. Gambian, there is huge intellectual differences. Educated man would tolarate more and have more realistic and fair analysis when face problem with other race. Many times in gambia, when I challenged people or government officials, immedietly they play the race card. For example when I challanged immigration officer or police officers about the law I know, they accuse me to insult their intelligence as a toubab. First of all my being toubab would not have anything to do with the situtaion. Educated man would know that. But, which school grade a gambian police graduate from. What is the grade level a british police graduate from.
2. Racism would have less impact on more democratic society. The level of democracy and strong rule of law would reduce the impact on racism. For example, in UK, more democratic rights, better judicial system would be a barrier for racism. In Gambia, human rights, democratic institutions are not as developed. Gambians do not have fair justice system for themselves, for the different race the situation is worse. In England when face racism there are institution you can apply. A justice system is better to fight against it. In gambia you have less chance.
Everytime i was stopped at the check point because I look toubab, racial profiling, I am afraid to challange the police, because, I do not have much confidence in the legal system in gambia to protect me if i challanged the police officer.
Will continue.
|
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 14:07:26
|
turk,
First of all why is your daughter now the next president of Turkey and not Gambia? What happened? Secondly, you seem to have a personal definition of RACISM, please share that explicit definition with us.
“… If you have more power on the other, your racism has greater impact. For example, a racist black man would not be significant in terms of harm in Germany …. Same black man would have more harmful if he was in Africa because he potentially has more power on others…… “
You are comparing a country, Germany, with a continent, Africa. A Zimbabwean in Germany has more power than a Zimbabwean in S. Africa. You may have to reconstruct your argument/example.
“Toubabs are too liberal (secular)… “
Did you miss the definitions of Toubab given herein; that Gambians call each other toubab, that it does not exclusively mean “White” and that it is not derogatory but uplifting? If Turk, Lebanese, English, Syrian are all called toubab then toubab has more to it than being, White/Westerner. Be mindful of generalising your personal experiences as if they are universal.
If Gambia is conservative then her people, Christians and Muslims would not celebrate both X-mass and Tobaski together, or intermarry, or go to the same schools etc. Do not project your own idea of conservatism on Gambia for it does not exist.
“… black men would see whites as immoral individuals…”
Well, how do people react to feminist ideas in Turkey, England, and Germany etc? One thing is certain Gambia accepts feminism more than Turkey and the Middle East.
Interestingly the racist ideology was created by intellectuals, Eugenics, Social Darwinism etc. So, I imply that the less educated one is the more tolerant one is, hence traditionally Gambians believe that one should care for visitors well, for one may be a visitor one day, that “what goes around comes around”.
“2. Racism would have less impact on more democratic society….”
Ironically Hitler came to power through democracy which he later disbanded.
That Gambia does not have a working judicial system affects Gambians more than none Gambians. Gambians are being checked at stop points everyday and to say it is racist to be checked at the same checking points is uninformed.
Your personal experiences maybe legitimate but they do not constitute racism in the Gambia no matter how insistent you are.
|
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
|
|
|
snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 16:16:38
|
To think there is no racism in Gambia is naive and is to bury ones head in the sand
As previously stated of the harassment of white business people by the police and tax authorities but not so much Gambians. Maybe Institutional Racism?
Many years ago I would have no problem after a night out of walking back to my accommodation. But not now because one has heard and seen the results of muggings. Were some motivated by racism? No one can say
Finally my own experience. After just had dinner and leaving the Amsterdam Dolphins was confronted by three young guys hurling abuse. Go home you f------ sh--
Also over the years I have been confronted on 3 occasions by aggressive black people it was obvious what they were saying was not nice. But didn’t understand as 2 of them were not speaking English
|
|
|
|
Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 17:03:29
|
"To think there is no racism in Gambia is naive and is to bury ones head in the sand..."
Really, what about the British guy that was smuggled out of the country and the Aviation Company that dubbed the country, would you call that racist. The young Gambians that marry old women from the West is that racism.
That you did not understand what was said does not justify racism does it.
Apart from Gambia where else did you experience racism and how.
To say your personal experience justifies an organised racist attack on none Gambians is groundless and fictitious.
|
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
