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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Sep 2008 : 22:03:18
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quote:
Originally posted by MeMe
quote:
Originally posted by Hiz Princess
Never.
Fought against it constantly in the UK though, not nice is it, being a minority and feeling marginalized based on the colour of your skin eh
FYI you can be a 'minority' wherever, whenever ... it's not just a colour issue ...
But because your in a minority doesn't mean your racially oppressed, these are two totally different things.
The post is about Racism not Minorities. |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2008 : 22:17:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Janko
quote:
Originally posted by MeMe
...Waaw or the fact that people shout "toubab" at you in the street - ...I don't shout "black person" to every Gambian/Nigerian/Senegalese/etc I come across while on holiday there   
Did you ask what Toubab means?
It is surely no reference to the colour of skin;... white person as oppose to "black person”
Janko you are so right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toubab as posted earlier by Lurker.
This word has been used here as an example of racism and yet has nothing to do with it.
All too many times in society today people play the race card, as i've said previously its a dangerous game to play.
What is racism?
Janko a very interesting question maybe you should have asked 'what is your definition of racism'
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2008 : 22:21:28
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| Princess: Do you think their is a racial class ceiling in the UK? I'm talking about the "good old boy system?" |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2008 : 22:46:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Prince
Princess: Do you think their is a racial class ceiling in the UK? I'm talking about the "good old boy system?"
Hi Prince, the old boy system is alive and well, however I don't necessarily think it is now based on Race or breeding more on wealth. They're are a few 'Gentleman's ' clubs in the west end of London that are exclusive there are members now that are from different ethnic groups because they have the wealth to enable this privilege.
These people are not from 'old money' but are 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants in that sense there's been a shift, whether or not their money affords them the same privileges I have no idea but would be interested to find out.
There is now however an underclass, people that though poverty are on the margins of society .
Around two-fifths of people from ethnic minorities live in low income households(not necessary unemployed but low-pay employment too), twice the rate for White people in the UK. |
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 01:59:29
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HIZ
You think the brits (Britain) is a racist nation. I think there is more racism amongst our colourd brethren Indians Parkistani Africans Asians against each other than from the average white guy |
Edited by - snuggels on 14 Sep 2008 02:30:32 |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 09:33:52
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I think that elements of racism exist in all societies. By this I mean that there will always be some people who are racist everywhere. This racism may be based on ignorance, fear of someone different - or pure hate. But often that hate derives out of - as has already been said - ignorance. Though sometimes it's historical too.
I have never felt that being called a toubab was a racist comment but more that it was a descriptor of who I am- though it is equally true that if here, in Britain, children shouted black person (or some other descriptor) whenever they saw someone who didn't look like them then it would be construed as racism.
I think that education is a key to integration,understanding, tolerance and the combating of racism -but then, as a teacher is a big multi-cultural college perhaps I would!!
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 13:20:44
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Thanks, Hiz Princess, the link says it all.
RACE is not one of those words like PEACE, open to definition, or defined individually, or contextually because the notion RACE was put together at a specific time and has a specific history and background.
Toubab is not derogatory therefore it is misleading to interpret it as equivalent to or the opposite of Black/N… (…shout "black person" to every Gambian/Nigerian/Senegalese/etc) In fact Gambians do call each other toubab,with the connotation of elevating the person above oneself.
“toubabs, non-Gambians are treated very bad. i sometimes got away because i have islamic background.” (turk)
turk, you are confusing religion with race. If Toubab is derogatory and means “White” then your “Islamic background” would not have saved you or exempted you from the hazard.
I belief those who interpret Toubab as derogatory are projecting their own meaning and not conveying the actual meaning of the word.
My suspicion is that the word Toubab is mostly used by the younger generation. (youths and kids)
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 14 Sep 2008 13:21:52 |
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faderabraham
203 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 13:24:01
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| thank you all for your response am certainly having lots of food for thought on that subject WE ALL HUMAN BEINGS. |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 13:38:57
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quote:
Originally posted by snuggels
HIZ
You think the brits (Britain) is a racist nation. I think there is more racism amongst our colourd brethren Indians Parkistani Africans Asians against each other than from the average white guy
Snuggles I said Britain not Brits and again yes.
I think if were talking about Britain then we are talking about institutional racism this is alive and kicking I dont think that's under dispute and this is what I was referring to in my OP.
I would argue that black people (I use Black as umbrella term before I get jumped on ) cannot exert this type of racism in the UK solely because to really be racist at that level, they would have to control a large enough chunk of this nation's institutions to act on whatever individual racist tendencies they might have.
However anyone can be an individual racist if they believe in a superiority of another race, the argument then is there is a world of difference in terms of effect.
Janko asked a very interesting and significant question to this thread that seems to have been answered by only a few. It is not an easy question to answer but without an understanding of what Racism is or at least an understanding what other think it maybe it is difficult to understand its complexitys.
This word is so fiercy bounded about and yet its definition avoided.
I have to have witnessed Xenophobic attitudes towards People from different ethnic orgins who have the same colour skin, here in Britain and also in Gambia but this is not racism.
I have witnessed Racism in Europe and Asia against those who have the same colour skin just different nationality's the one that stands out in my mind is the Russians and the Polish. |
Edited by - Hiz Princess on 14 Sep 2008 14:30:22 |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 13:47:23
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quote:
Originally posted by faderabraham
thank you all for your response am certainly having lots of food for thought on that subject WE ALL HUMAN BEINGS.
Faderabraham I am curious,what are your views? Why did you begin this post was it curiosity or an experience? |
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faderabraham
203 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 13:53:17
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curiosity princess and interest in why we cannot live together in peace and harmony
abraham
..................................Toubab
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Toubab is a Central and West African name for a person of European descent. Used most frequently in the Gambia, Senegal, and Mali, the term does not have derogatory connotations.
The name has many suggested sources, including: a corruption of the Arab word Tabib meaning doctor; a verb in the Wolof language meaning 'to convert' ( the early doctors and missionaries during colonial times, being whites coming from Europe ); or that it is derived from the two bob ( two shilling ) coin of pre-decimalisation UK currency.
However, the most likely earliest derivation is from the Wolof word for Europe "Tougal". As Wolof means the people of Jollof, Toubab means the people of Tougal.
This article about an ethnic group in Africa
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 15:59:36
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HIZ
I have no knowledge of racism in institutions in the UK.
This covers an awful lot and as i cant find any statistics and the laws that are in place in the UK this I would think but cant prove this only applies to a minority of instatutions or organisations in the UK Which Im sure you will find in many countries even the Gambia.
I have heard of many businesses owned by white people that have closed down in Gambia because of harassment from the police or tax authorites wilst those owned by Gambians are left alone.
Instastutional Racism Ummmm
But here are some interesting statistics. victims of Racist Crimes of Violence in England and Wales taken from The Office of National Statistics I think that the start of this thread was refering to the average man in the street so one can see that there is more racism against white brits than anyone else. Is this the same in Gambia?
[b]White 75912
Black 7408
Asian 28634
Jewish [b]82
Other [b]10446 |
Edited by - snuggels on 14 Sep 2008 16:41:01 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 16:51:54
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Very, Very, interesting,I don't know what to make of these figures except that after I have managed to close my mouth and get up off the floor I might be able to say something,but at the moment I am speechless,another thing that is in the public domain but that the powers that be don't really want known,thanks.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 19:00:10
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I took the liberty to Goggle your statistics as they didn't seem right and as I'm still unsure of your definition of racism.
I found your statistics on page 1 on a BNP (British National Party I believe is described as a far right, whites only political party in the UK) pertaining to 2005
http://www.bnp.org.uk/Racist%20violence%20stats%202005.pdf
The home office suggest that
Nationally, in 2006-07, police reported 5,619 hate crimes in which someone was injured, 4,350 hate crimes without injury, and 28,485 cases of racially or religiously motivated harassment.
There were also 3,565 cases of criminal damage related to hate crimes.
The typical hate offender is a young white male (most homophobic offenders are aged 16-20, and most race hate offenders under 30).
The majority of hate crimes happen near to the victim's home while they are going about their daily business, and an offence is most likely to be committed between 3pm and midnight.
Most hate criminals live in the same neighbourhood as their victims.
Hate Crime is defined as
Hate crime is any criminal offence committed against a person or property that is motivated by an offender's hatred of someone because of their:
race, colour, ethnic origin, nationality or national origins
religion
gender or gender identity
sexual orientation
disability
These statistics show individual racist incident they do not reflect Institutional racism which is under question from your self.
Here's a article this may highlight my point about institutional racism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/sep/05/raceineducation.raceinschools
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2008 : 19:56:02
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HIZ
My definition of racism doesn’t come into it. All I was doing was reporting the Statistics on Racist Crimes of Violence issued from The Office of National Statistics as you say issued 2005 could be worse now?
You brought up the point about Intuitional racism not me and stated that you think Britain is an istutionalised racist county this just is not true. Yes there are areas where no doubt this is true but the way you put it across if you were to belived you would think the whole country was corrupt this does nothing for racial harmony.
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Edited by - snuggels on 14 Sep 2008 20:03:03 |
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