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BornAfrican
United Kingdom
119 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 03:44:45
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Thanks to All contributors and interesting exchanges! How can we deal with whats has been exposed in watching this video courtesy of Guardian newspaper website under:-
Zimbabwe election: The stolen ballots
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2008/jul/04/election.zimbabwe
BornAfrican>> that Video highlights the problem existing throughout the entire African continent. the problem of vote rigging and intimidating citizens during election seasons is endemic to Africa.
The beginning of this video is very interesting. it stated that Mugabe has been accused of rigging elections for the past 18 years. but how long did it take guardian news paper to know this. this is the point i tried to make on this issue. West knows what is hapenning in Africa. they only highlight those problems that threaten their interest. 18 years ago, they were still allies with Mugabe, so who cares if he had murdered 1million zimbabweans then. it is Britain's double standard in this issue that annoys me and i just can't sit back and hear them talk evil about a regime that 18 years ago, they dubbed the best democracy in Africa. Do you see my point? Mugabe and rest of African leaders are rotten cheats. we all know that. We want a change for Zimbabwe and else where in Africa. Don't forget that the same situation exists in our own Backyard in the Gambia. who cares about the Gambia? no one. its neither a srategic interest, nor an industrial one. Jammeh can do anything he likes. all he needs to do is pay lobbyists in the US congress and his crimes will be hidden under the carpet. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 06:54:09
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In constantly looking at the past we can miss what is happening right now under our noses.
China has vetoed the UN treaty on trade embargoes with Zimbabwe.
Interesting. Africa is inviting China in.....I do hope they wont live to regret it. There is an old saying that you should beware the hand that feeds you.
On this site many people don't like the colonal influence from the West and see that as bad. (understandably in some ways). But China is going to be a massive force in the future. Do Africans think that China is helping out of the goodness of its heart and there will be no pay back?
As Muslims it would be good to remember that the Chinese government is profoundly anti relgion. It has a terrible record on human rights (Tibet etc)
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 09:31:20
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bev, trading the old colonial master for a new, eastern economic master is still subjecting oneself to slavery.
someone here mentioned that africa should free itself of handouts and try and become its own master.Cap in hand to china for everything it can get is hardly a proud example of that pathway to self-sufficiency.
China owns half of Zimbabwe, and soon it will probably own half of africa.
what's the difference between africa in 10 yrs from now and africa of the first half of the 20th century(apart from physical slavery)?
there are some great moves forward - look at botswana and , to some degree, south africa, but the pattern is there for all to see. eat the fish handed out instead of learning to fish.
I am sure some will come back and accuse every western nation of preventing free trade and restricting proper economic development in Africa for their own financial gain, but we have heard all that. and that is what china is doing anyway.
that african independence needs to be seen and not heard.
old cry wolf story, otherwise. |
Edited by - lurker on 13 Jul 2008 09:57:58 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 10:31:13
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I agree completely!  |
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lurker
509 Posts |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 16:40:59
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
............. it would be good to remember that the Chinese government is profoundly anti relgion. It has a terrible record on human rights (Tibet etc)
ah ha, so the 'blame' game continues.
I dont think it is out of place then to call for regime change in China as well?
If China blocks UN Resolutions to limit British/American hypocrisy in Africa thats tough for the British!
If the BBC, equally ''just realises now, a day after China'' vetos an American/British sponsored UN Resolution that China has a dirty hand in Darfur and wants to expose them, than thats tough for the Chinese.
We Africans are not interested in the West vs China in Africa cold war.
The BBC reports '' that UN estimates that about 300,000 people have died. More than two million people are also believed to have fled their villages in Darfur, destroyed by pro-government Arab Janjaweed militia.'' BBC, 13th July 2008.
my God, and the World was 'shocked' by the record of the pro-government militia in Zimbabwe?
now that Mugabe is out of the spotlight, perhaps Darfur will become fashionable.
i expect a statement from Downing Street this week ! |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 17:25:04
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njucks, you are the biggest exponent of the blame game there is.
all your posts go on and on about the west and its dirty deals and its shenanigans, while your own boys are up to thteir necks in it as well. but you never make constructive suggestions about how to solve africa's problems. you just bang on about what a bad deal africa gets from everyone and about why darfur is not getting the kind of coverage you thinks it should. who started darfur...the west?
how about you start making some suggestions for your beloved continent's progress, once the dirty devil that is the west has left you to your own devices?
that would be more useful than your constant tirade about the evil west and the racist members of britain and of this bantaba.
others here acknowledge the faults that exist that the west and africans themselves have been involved in and try to think ahead, but not you. you are absorbed in the past without any remedial direction.you hate and despise. you blame and slander. you must always feel unhappy.
some of your fellow africans here at least , while acknowledging the past horrors, get their heads down to find solutions.. they are africa's future.
you are africa's past. |
Edited by - lurker on 13 Jul 2008 17:26:51 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 18:12:54
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What China does in China is its own business. It isn't pretending to be a democracy.The whole world knows it oppresses its own people.But I would be very careful allowing its power in another territory. Did you see how quick the olympic flame passed through Tibet? To avoid any protests.
China stamps hard on freedom of speech.
African Nations should be trying to give power to it's own people so that the people of the country have a stake in shaping it's future. Perhaps then the educated middle class would stay and support the nation building that is needed. A starting point for this is a free and fair vote. Then opportunities for employment and a decent living wage.
I just don't see how the involvement of china can help in anyway with this.  |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 23:12:23
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
What China does in China is its own business. It isn't pretending to be a democracy.The whole world knows it oppresses its own people.
you see thats to a large extent the point of this discussion. We know what is going on in China. lets give the same ''respect and exercise restraint'' to Zimbabwe.
after all we have been doing so all this time, especially when Mugabe was killing LURKER's 30,000 Ndebeles in cold blood.
we also seem to respect Sudan. i suppose what Sudan does in Sudan is Sudan's own business.
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 23:45:33
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China investment in Africa is economic and right now Africa needs trade. That's the bottom line. Africa needs economic growth and no longer needs its economic growth to be dictated by the West. Whether or not the West likes it or not China is a important player and it has vetoed further sanctions on Zimbabwe along with Russia and Indonesia. To tamper in the internal politics of Zimbabwe by deliberately starving the Zimbabwean people is illegal. That has Britain's policy since 2002. It has taken 6 years of sanctions to bring about the situation we are witnessing into Zimbabwe today.
The West needs to realize that it is no longer the Neo-Colonial power calling the shots over Africa's future. Whether or not people support Mugabe the principle of Africans being able to control their own resources and without the interference to utilize them to develop the continent is important for Africa's future. Africa needs more than a wells and food aid. It needs to develop its physical infrastructure, education system and trade freely.
Africans are more than capable of developing political systems which don't have to be modeled on western values and styles of governance. China is not a threat to Africa its policy is not to spread its political ideology it is to trade.
Now there are different theories about Darfur apart from Chinese veto on it. Another theory is that it is western governments' who want to ethnically cleanse the area. To make way for Solar Energy to service electricity to Europe as a substitute to fossil fuels. This information has been passed on through AU troops who have evidence of this on the ground.
gambiabev freedom of speech is one of the first things to be dampened down with the war on terror and so is the right of assembly in so called democracy. Unfortunately for the British government and their friends in the media the world has become wiser to its propaganda machine. As for the Guardian newspapers film. The video could of easily been made somewhere in Southern Africa in a room with a picture of Robert Mugabe on the wall. The prisoners who were brought food through a chicken wire fence with gapping holes in it. Could of easily bad those holes bigger and escaped from them.
Also last week Zimbabwe Refugees who are fleeing for their lives from Zimbabwe because of the violence from Mugabe regime are being departed from Britain. They are refused Asylum and are prohibited from working in Britain and have to live off Red Cross. even Zimbabweans who reside in Britain will no longer be able to send money home to their relatives. Now, tell me what type of human being will stop another one from sending money home to feed their families who are depending on them, And people have the nerve to say they can't see how China can help in anyway with this.
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 13 Jul 2008 23:50:11 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2008 : 08:28:22
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You say China doesnt interfer in other countries politics. How naive! Do you think China is just trading with Tibet?!
Your anti west postings make me quite sick especially when you live in UK....Ok you were born here...but really sister if you hate it that much why dont you go and live somewhere else?!  
Oh and by the way that is not a racist statment it is a totally exasperated statement!   Perhaps you would like China better or Zimbabwe!
The BBC interviewed a prison guard who had taken the video for the guardian. All the guards were rounded up and watched voting. They had no choice. He was now in fear for his life and his family have now been moved to UK under protection.
It is up to each individual country to develop its own systems. But the issue in Zimbabwe is that the supposed democratic elections are not democratic. If Mugabe stands as a dictator and his own people love him, well thats ok.....but the hypocrosy and the fear, surely you cant condone that? Or do you think he is a great and misunderstood man?!!
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2008 : 11:03:13
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gambia. Just correction.Tibet is not another country. It is a province of China.
I also find it very unfair critism for sista omega. She is entitled to make critism for the country she is citizen. It may not be racist but it is very discriminative. If a citizen can't speak against the government, 'peacefully', what is the point of freedom of speech. Why does she have to leave from a country because she stand for what she believes is right. Maybe her critism is good for british. To me that is still patriotic. Are you saying she should be biased?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 14 Jul 2008 11:06:14 |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2008 : 11:09:45
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Turk
you are in order. You see, thats the whole point, People want to judge Africa(ns) for standards they themselves ingore. Maybe we should print this webpage as evidence of SO being intimidated in the UK!!!
Sister Omega
thanks for that piece. i suppose asking a mere prison guard to vote for a certain party is an '' international crime for which countries are to be isolated''. The longer this goes on it shows how low the Brits want to get. But i admired their determination!
perhaps you should try and get a video of Zimbabweans been deported from the UK, or even better a video police harassment in the UK so we can 'expose' the UK.
Zimbabwe is being punished, for election related violence.Outstanding!
when i think of the elections in Pakistan,Togo, Nigeria, Kenya, Cameroun,even in South Africa during the transition, one wonders where was the world (UK) with it '' conscience''.
but you see, there are no white farmers in these countries.
is Clare Short commenting on this in the UK media?
my advice to you is that you cannot have a balanced debate about Zimbabwe with any ''white British''.
even in sport, the ICC was split on Zimbabwe, with UK, Australia on one side, India, The carribean on the other.
the Russians, China, and entire African continent, Janko, SO, BornAfrica are all wrong, only the UK can be right !!!
the people who live around Zimbabwe have appointed a mediator and a process is on its way. If this is not good enough for the British i supoose they can ''go hang a 1000 times''
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Edited by - njucks on 14 Jul 2008 11:17:36 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2008 : 13:36:08
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Tha Dalia lama is in exile from Tibet because of chinese policies there. Buddhists are being persecuted.
Of course everyone is entitled to criticise the government of the country they live in. I do all the time..iraq etc.... BUT if you unrelentingly HATE the country you live in and everything it stands for, personally I would go and live somewhere else. For example I could never live in a american state that has the death penalty. Its a personal thing. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2008 : 23:58:01
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Dalia Lama is great person and leader. And tibet is indeed under presure by china. But he is OVERRATED, as usual by western media, just like salman rushdie, as "enemy of my enemy is my friend". Dalai lama is very good opportunity by the west to put presure on the-next-super-power-coming china. Anyway, that is probably another story.
Gambiabev. Your thinking is too extreme. I am not sure if omega hates the country, but she has strong critism over politics, foreign policy and some establishments. And, why would not you live in America because there is a death penalty? It is not like you want to kill someone so why concern about that penalty in America. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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