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lurker
509 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jun 2008 : 21:10:47
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| of course there are double standards- across the whole world - but none more so than the would be liberator-hero , who tomorrow will be chopping off the hands that do not display that red ink. |
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Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2008 : 00:54:29
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Fellow Africans,
looking at events from accross Africa as a whole and not only Zimbabwe, is really shocking.Hunger,Rape without end,Child abuse,violence,human brutality,Man's wickedness to his fellow weak man,Draught,human suffering unabaited,Sometimes one wonders why Blacks people hate themselves so much so that they have no second thought when it comes to seing another in a pool of blood?Anyone who blames the west is ignorant of the facts and history of Africa and her people.
Lets face it the west after the great wars between them,they have now come together furging ahead with the strong nations carrying the weak ones to also gain strength.Believe it or not the west would only follow their interest in Africa and nothing else which even ourselves are doing here in Europe and America.No one jokes with his/her interest individually.Africa on the otherhand cannot and never can realise the collective interest for her people.
Look at Africa?The greatest continent on Earth with everything but yet,yet,yet,the living hell on earth.I sometimes wonder if the real SATAN does not right now live in Africa?This is no joke.
We as Africans need to think very hard.I don't sometimes blame Mugabe but the people of Zimbabwe.How can one madman make everyone mad because he is only happy when madness overtakes everybody then that is the time he gains consciousness?
SATAN HAS BEEN RISIDING IN AFRICA AND BUILD HIS OFFICE ACCROSS THE CONTINENT AND ONLY AFRICANS CAN DRIVE HIM OUT OF THEIR LAND!
God please give us the strength to fight the mighty SATAN. |
Edited by - Janyanfara on 28 Jun 2008 00:57:05 |
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janjabureh
Gambia
12 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2008 : 07:46:27
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Janyanfara,
I concur with you entirely. African people need to come together as one, just like the Americans did and the Europeans are doing now. US' rise to world superstardom was fueled by political integration between the states. The Europeans are doing the same thing by uplifing the living standard of their peoples.
According to a report by UN Economic Commission for Africa, 40% of Africans over the age of 25 had no schooling what so ever, productivity of average African workers was $2,100 in 2000, which ranges from $290 in Burundi to $9,900 in South Africa. According to WTO, Africa's contribution to international trade has plumetted from about 10% in the early 1960s to a mere 2% in 2005.
Every where in the world, countries and regions are improving productivity and living standard of their peoples, except Africa. This madness has to stop! We have suffered in the hands of the whiteman for centuries and now we are being butchered by our own brothers and sisters, not talking of mismanagement of our precious resources with misguided policies and programs designed to benefit themselves at the detriment of our peoples.
How long will this continue. I think the only way to stop this madness is for the continent to unite and establish a strong central polical authority.For example, Jammeh uses sovereignity rhetoric to defend his blatant disregard for rule of law and democratic governace. He refuse to adhere to the ruling of the ECOWAS Court in the case of Mr. Manneh, who is feared dead. He shaemlessly went to attend the ECOWAS conference, bursting that Gambia is a sovereign country and no one has a right to interfere in its internal affairs. The most cherished philosophy among African leader is " Non interference." Megabe and other dictators and tyrant use the same excuse to murder their people and rip them of their livelihoods. This is hurrible. African people should stand up and take matters in our own hands and force these tyrants from our statehouses. I think military takeove, riots or what may is necessary to remove people like Jammeh, Mugabe and other stupid dictators.
Thanks
Jnajabured |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2008 : 09:47:19
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People in Zimbabwe desperate to show their ink stained finger to aviod being murdered!   What is free or fair about that? Even to abstain is considered against Mugabe. The 'Election' is completely void of any meaning or integrity. He is now holding on to power completely falsely.
Furthermore his battles are now appearing in UK with opposition people being hunted down on our streets too.
Unrest in a country is very destablising for trade.
Civil war is very destablising for trade.
War with bordering countries in very destablishing for trade.
For trade to happen people have to talk to each other. Through this communication people start to understand each other better. Countries that trade together hopefully might fight less.
The EC model is based on common interests and building strong trading groups.
I thought the West African currency might have been a way forward to build a stronger unit. WHat has happened to this? Not much talk of it in Gambia last time I was there?
If UK and Germany can come together to communcate and be part of a group there is hope for all of Africa to unite too. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2008 : 13:36:25
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The development of any people starts with the ability to feed itself.
Zimbabwe’s present situation is a wakeup call for the whole continent that if the means of production are not used to feed the home market then sooner or later the country would be plunged into instability and it would not matter if it is democratic or despotic.
Let’s not forget that Africa is still under the bondage of external interests and to think that Africa can be free over night by photocopying organisational structures from elsewhere is naïve.
Zimbabwe’s journey to its present state started long ago. It is naive to blame Mugabe alone for the circumstances in Zimbabwe as if there are no other interests present.
Zimbabwe’s three periods worth looking at are;
i) Pre-Mugabe,
ii) Mugabe -the heydays, the first 10-15 year of his rule were praised by all
iii) Mugabe –at the present, the despot etc
The first two periods were marked by identical economic and social structure; no major changes were made in balancing the concentration of wealth and livelihood. The means of production were controlled by none Zimbabweans(a few) and produced luxury goods like wine and tobacco for the European market. The problem became a factum when ownership of the means of production was question and interrupted by Mugabe that is when he became the dictator and a despot. To say fair and free elections and getting reed of Mugabe would solve the problems of Zimbabwe and its people is equally naïve and simplistic.
Like in the whole of Africa; as long as external interest is undisturbed it would not matter if the ruler is a Mabutu, or a Sankara but as soon as external interest is disturbed there is no difference between an Edie Amen and a Senghor, for the reason that it is not the wellbeing or welfare of the people that determines if a leader is a democrat or a despot.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 28 Jun 2008 13:38:36 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 10:48:47
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| I have just seen a brilliant interview on BBC by Andrew Marr with the Archbishop of York. Hopefully it will make its way into the news bulletins and the internet. He is a fierce opponent of Mugabe. Calling for people to withdraw investment and stop trading and possibly neighbouring countries creating a total blocade. Powerful stuff. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 10:53:50
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Also Desmond Tutu has called for intervention by force if necessary by the world community.
It seems to be one of those Pivital days....can the world stand by and do nothing?
There is lots of information on the BBC world news Africa pages on the web site. Perhaps someone can post a link..I dont remember how! |
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lurker
509 Posts |
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monday
43 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 12:26:49
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Like in the whole of Africa; as long as external interest is undisturbed it would not matter if the ruler is a Mabutu, or a Sankara but as soon as external interest is disturbed there is no difference between an Edie Amen and a Senghor, for the reason that it is not the wellbeing or welfare of the people that determines if a leader is a democrat or a despot.
Classic. Your posting is a real classic. I wish your posting could be read by all those who are blaming ONLY Mugabe for the current situation in Zimbabwe. Most people fails to understand, "what brought this crises , why now and why Zimbabwe".
The West and USA double standard:
The West and US knew very well that the election in Keynia was not free and fair but the US was the first to congratulate Kibaki cos he was/is protecting their interest. so what is the difference in Zimbabwe?. SIMPLE: Their(the West and USA)interest have been hampered.
Of course it is sad to see what is happening in Zimbabwe, but this is a master plan, cleverly designed by the UK. They knew what will happen to Zimbabwe today. There something, we Africans need to understand: the West and USA have no friends, they have interest.
Please do not take me wrong, I am not against the West/USA or supporting Mugabe, what I am trying to stress here is, we need to wake up to reality, and then hopefully we can effectively deal with the situation in our continent.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 12:59:44
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| Mugabe is struggling to hold on to power at any price. He is torturing his own people. The blame lies at his door, no one elses! |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 13:02:38
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
...seen a brilliant interview on BBC by Andrew Marr with the Archbishop of York. ...He is a fierce opponent of Mugabe. Calling for people to withdraw investment and stop trading and possibly neighbouring countries creating a total blocade. Powerful stuff.
What is the good in that for the people of ZIMBABWE?
The sanctions against Zimbabwe are the motive of the present economic and human hazard.
Is getting reed of Mugabe worth the life of all the citizens of Zimbabwe? NO!!!
Are there no limits to the cost of getting reed of Mugabe?
Is this just about Mugabe?
Mugabe as an elderly citizen, active, has his country at heart can not fight the whole world all by himself. He can continue to serve his dearest country and Africa in many ways: he can make a very good lecturer/educator and have the whole continent and the world as his working field. Africa needs educators like Mugabe in her strife to redirecting her resources to feeding her children.
But getting reed of Mugabe is not incalculable, is not worth the life of the whole country, therefore it is irrational to risk the life of the whole country because of one man.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 29 Jun 2008 13:12:56 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 14:48:12
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The extent of damage Mugabe has sunken Zimbabwe is how far Gambia's demon Yaya Jammeh is pushing the country. We need to learn from this bad experience and to resist Yaya Jammeh before too late. When he invaded Gambia's political space, he made trumpet lousy noise about being a youthful president. With age now advancing rapidly, he will now prefer to call for the wisdom of OLD AGE as most suitable barometer. False discoveries of unfound natural resources!! This fellow is firmenting yet another Mugabe on our small portion of land. There are lessons to learn. We must say no to this decadence. Talking about WHOLE OF AFRICA is liken to biting what one is unable to chew. We can't deal with AFRICA where we simply fail to arrest a criminal regime in our own little country. People of Zimbabwe and rest of the world are capable enough to handle Mugabe with total ruins of his make. We have a critical case in Gambia; Yaya Jammeh. Failure to tame and to cage this wild being of a man will cost Gambia lasting impacts, now and in the longer infinity of time. Africa is TOO BIG to bite. Let us tackle the monster at home.
"Ku waache sa anda, anda bo feika amna borom."
In short , carry thy own load. |
Karamba |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 15:03:48
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Great debate Njucks, Mansa and Dbaldeh.
I feel that Mugabe should have gone longtime ago. BUT the west and their allies are not the COMPETENT people to PASS the message.
As Njucks said there is mass suffering around the globe, but the West turm a blind eye and shut their eyes . Just tune to AlJazeera and see the Isreali brutality on a daily basis.
Tchd, Darfur, Somalia(American vested interest), DR Congo etc
Guys keep the debate going. Thanks for brialliant inputs!
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 15:35:41
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quote:
Originally posted by dbaldeh
.......... why can't we care for ourselves and our people?
To address an issue one must know the source of the problem.
Baldeh, thats the key in this argument. knowing the source. Its would be completely naiive, unfair to look at the Palestinian problem as simply Hamas throwing rockets into Israel and Israel dropping bombs. The problem must be addressed with the rightful historical perspective as one of occupation, security and liberation etc.
the same must apply to Zimbabwe. dont mind these stupid British and their racist comments from Prime Minister to bantaba members.
time will tell. On Friday almost 50,000 people went to celebrate Mandela's birthday in London. the irony is that when we Africans tried to seek Western support to deal with an African problem like apartheid where was the British Prime Minister or the West. Biko, Mandela and our children paid the final price when they called for Regime Change in Aparthied South Africa.
THe British Policy towards South Africa at the time of Thatcher was '' Construcitve Engagement''. This same Security Council allowed the UK to VETO sanctions against sounth Africa.
As people celebrate Mandela's birthday, Margarette Thather must be hiding herself in shame. when it mattered they did nothing.. People like Mandela cannot stand in the way of profits from mining companies like De Beers, AngloAmerican and BP etc.thats their thinking.
on your point of us africans caring for ourselves. lets take an example between dBaldeh and Njucks. lets say as africans we have a problem, we trying to argue/solve it. then a European enters taking your side. The problem becomes dynamic and different permutations can play. We lost Lumumba precisely for these reasons. Western interference. whether its today or tomorrow , African leaders must have the courage to stand up to Europe and say back off and shut up!
i read a BBC journalist say that this was the worst election in his 40 years career as a journalist. you see how stupid people can get if they are one sided. Ask yourself since 1960 how many elections in Africa and the World have been held under worst conditions, from Bokassa's to Mobutu's Zaire! Atleast there are elections in Zimbabwe, do we have elections in North Korea? in Burma the opposition is under house arrest permanently. why dont we call for regime change.
Mandela is said to have criticised Mugabe in London on Tuesday for ''failure of Leadership'' according to the BBC. This is what Mandela actually said before even touching Zimbabwe.
''We watch with sadness the continuing tragedy in Darfur. Nearer to home we had seen the outbreak of violence against fellow Africans in our own country and the tragic failure of leadership in our neighbouring Zimbabwe,''
like me he see Darfur as a bigger problem for most Africans than Zimbabwe. and rightly so.
Tsvangirai himself has no clue where he wants to take Zimbabwe. he is doing exactly what he is being told to do.''I will not participate in a run-off. ok i will participate. infact i withdraw. i will negotiate. i will not negotiate. we don't want Mbeki to mediate. ok Mbeki must do this or that.Mugabe has no role in a future Zimbabwe. ok Mugabe can take a ceremonial role and i will be executive prime minister'' this guy is a fool.
i am glad that there are other honest people like Janko, Monday etc who wish to discuss this problem by identifying all the contributors to it.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 17:53:46
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So white people on bantaba that seak out against Mugabe are RACIST?! Really. I've heard it all now. I'm speechless!
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