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lurker
509 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 09:10:30
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| stop being pompous and self-righteous. go back to the post and read it properly. legitimacy was brought up by others , not by me. i asked what people intended when they left, thats all, not hard.i asked what category people find themselves in. if you read sister omegas post, you will see that some people on this bantaba can actually understand without having to twist stuff around then have a go. it was simple. you made it complicated. who mentioned jamaicans? how do you know what i know about these stats? you should read the words again and then think, which i am sure you can, before you ramble on about the gambian company i keep, the ignorance of my opinions or anything else. you are rude and discourteous.you whine a lot. |
Edited by - lurker on 16 Jun 2008 09:18:51 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 09:38:14
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Oh you mean "Afro-Caribeans" not Jamaicans, right?
I am sorry if I appear pompous and self-righteous. But look at the statements you make about your so-called brother-in-law and his "...**** job..." and your in-laws in general as "hungry and broke". These people deserve your respect, no matter what okay...
You entire perception of immigrants is based on your concocted story about your brother-in-law. it is evident in the language you use. It is based on ignorance and stereotypes, periods. thank you. |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 09:38:33
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quote:
Originally posted by lurker
stop being pompous and self-righteous. go back to the post and read it properly. legitimacy was brought up by others , not by me. i asked what people intended when they left, thats all, not hard.i asked what category people find themselves in. if you read sister omegas post, you will see that some people on this bantaba can actually understand without having to twist stuff around then have a go. it was simple. you made it complicated. who mentioned jamaicans? how do you know what i know about these stats? you should read the words again and then think, which i am sure you can, before you ramble on about the gambian company i keep, the ignorance of my opinions or anything else. you are rude and discourteous.you whine a lot.
Lurker, I think you have a legitimate reason to about other peoples' cultures and tradition. Members of the bantaba would be glad to educate any reader on certain cultures and social norms. This is the whole purpose of bantaba in the first place.
I think what brought about the suspicion on the motive of your questions is the the issues you highlighted. Am sure you did not intend to be stereotypical but the fact that you highlighted mostly the negative sides on a sensitive issue like immigration is the root cause of the question why others might be suspicious of your motive.
It is historically known and on record that people who are very anti immigrant often bring this point of "Returning" in the discussions. For example, we have some people in the U.S some so called conservatives who always question why Africans wouldn't go back to their countries. These people are pure racist and anti immigrants.
So it is definitely a sensitive issue and one need to be careful how you argue about it.
To be honest though I think some of your questions are very valid and need some answers. We could probably rephrase the question and ask what Africans can do to better their countries no matter where they are in the world?
All the same questions are important and it is only through asking questions that we can learn about something we don't know.
Thanks |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 09:43:53
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Luker, you asked some very important questions. I have actually thought if it too... Unlike most people on here, I don't have a family dependent on me. But i've made up my mind, I'm NOT going home. My life here is very comfortable.
Throughout our history, men migrated, mainly for a better living condition.
I'm not going home b'cos
1. I'm able to attend an ivy league university, which drilled a hole in my dad's pocket. I'm going to recover that money right here and in the process, pay for the welfare and social security of the FAT whining natives. Just like other students in the UK do...
2. I believe in the American dream, and i'm living it.
3. Currently, the best way for me to support Gambia is with my hard earned Greens...
If i were in the UK though, I'd go home after my education. That is mainly due to the GLASS CEILING and the GOOD OLD BOY system in that country!
Its amazing that you compared Asians who are mainly from stable family structures to Caribbean who were virtually reared like livestock for centuries. Also, the the Caribbean have to fight hard to break through the UK's glass ceiling.... Its narrow minded to assume that the two started the race from the same spot.
You mentioned a low brow Gambian community that i hardly come across. All my Gambian friends are professionals or in the process of becoming professionals. I'd like to meet the type of Gambians you hang around with, maybe i won't be lucky enough to meet 'em, for the British say, "birds of the same feathers flock together." |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 09:49:40
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| Thanks Dbaldeh and thanks Prince for your posts... |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 10:58:12
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Prince, thanks for your comments. i am glad people are starting to actually try and answer the question.
immigration is a hugely sensitive topic, i am aware of that. it still needs to be discussed.
i said before i cannot comment about gambians in usa. i said before that i met an unrepresentative proportion of the uk gambians and that i am sure there are thousands in the category you mention. i think many people like you will be making the most of the opportunities afforded to you by the country you chose to move to. why not?
i was interested, really , to see how gambia could benefit from the skills you achieve, not just from the money sent home. i wanted to see how the strong the compulsion was for gambians who have done well was to return, having mentioned the difficulties that are obvious, as brought up by dbaldeh, sister omega etc.my bro-in-law was case which made me realise that some people's urge to escape is very strong and their willingnes to return is non-existent, so that was another category.
alas, Kayjatta hijacked my post, accuses me of concocting a story(i.e lying) and using this to illustrate how i want immigrants to all bugger off home.i am not going to respond to people who call me a liar.ignorance is bliss.
to those of you who can actually see the purpose of this thread and want to react to it, i welcome any comments related to the issue.
By the way , prince, relating to my "observation" about the caribbeans,..
the indian influx here in the seventies was not on the back of slavery, but they came here broke and uprooted, on the back of a mad african dictator who expelled them without their goods and chattels. they were little better off than the caribbean influx some years previous. loads of us talk about this , and often, and we look at the results of 2 generations here. 90% of dental students in my old uni are asian. it is an astounding FACT.i was actually hoping for an afro -caribbean person to comment on whether they felt the educational ethic was different in the afro-caribbeans 2 generations ago. i am sure this is sensitive, and that they had problems getting a foothold. not so bad now.are there lots in the wings coming up to redress the balance? is the caribbean outlook based on different cultural, traditional perspectives. I do not know, so i ask. just questions out of curiosity from observations we make, rightly or wrongly.my own caribbean friends said they were not aware of this discrepancy, if it were true. some said that the mentality in their community is one of "now, now" and not "5 years from now". some said that the bling culture is to blame for wanting immediate wealth, things that professions do not provide. some said that it took a while , but the rush is coming. i knew this off-topic would raise some comments. it is very interesting, i think.
dbaldeh, you have responded with honesty and truth, and courtesy, unlike your firebrand colleague who's impossible to dialogue with , and i thank you for your continued civility.you are right , a lot of my observations are negative, precisely because of the type of people i have met. so i would like those who have met better versions of people to inform me and others so we can have a more objective view. i am sure we can be informed without being insulted..by most, anyway.
people have to be able to talk about things openly, even if some inner monsters have to be aired. chips on shoulders help no-one.
worryingly,as an aside, is it me or is the sense of humour on this bantaba in a coma?
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Edited by - lurker on 16 Jun 2008 11:22:27 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 11:24:20
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Lurker, i did not mean to hijack your posts, and do not think that is what I did. If you truly wanna dialogue we can definitely do that.
However, if you continue to make demeaning statements about others who are not here to respond, and continue to pass sweeping judgments and conjectures about people and things you have no idea about i cannot help responding otherwise. And if this hurts you I am really sorry, but it is part of the dialogue you are calling for.
Anyone who read your writings cannot fail to see the underlying contempt :
"...**** job, hungry and broke, sham marriages, serious crims from jamaica and eastern european block, stagnating in bakoteh with a rubbish job...". These are your words, not so?
Can you just calm down and ask easy questions? |
Edited by - kayjatta on 16 Jun 2008 11:33:59 |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 11:28:25
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I think the choice is exclusively Gambian. To decide to return or not to return is Gambian. Gambians need no lectures as how to help develop from someone simply becos he married a wife from 'a hungry and broke ' family. Main interests are Zimbabwe, non-existent brother in-law who borrowed NI to work and got caught, then deported.Nice fiction. That would certainly make one of Channel four's Despatches. Guys have you read between the lines? Guys beware of neo-imperialists!
For the records am one Gambian who is leaving as soon as possible, for my sweet Gambia.Mind you! Am not being forced to leave. I made that decisions long before this thread came. Above all i own my mind. |
madiss |
Edited by - MADIBA on 16 Jun 2008 11:34:25 |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 13:59:34
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| I have been following this discussion, hoping that Lurker would reveal his marmoth contributions and future plans for his land of birth because he is an immigrant like you people. The sad reality is that never once had he shown any affection or reminiscence about that beautiful land, which i find particularly disturbing. That alone tells the man's state of mind. How do you begin to measure indivividual success in the first frigging place? Different people have their own unique success story. Life is such that we cannot be successful in a uniformed manner. Success is guaranteed to no man? Having the highest degree in the whole world does not guarantee you f@?k all. You still have to graft, toil, endure the stress of work and do those hours like everyone else. Success is looking back some day and say "damn i have indeed contributed my quota towards the uplifting, education and improving the quality of life of mankind and this planet in my own unique way and it is appreciated". It is not achieved overnight but is the work of a life time. You can own enormous material wealth one day and the next you are reduced to begging and vice versa. If only people can appreciate and celebrate the difference and diversity of humankind then there would not be so much stupid stereotyping and unnecessary hatred in this world. |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 14:07:47
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shaka, your last 10 lines or so are very true.
what happened to the first few.
What is my land of birth? answer ...UK.
affection for which country? please elaborate.do you think i come from gambia or zimbabwe? i don't. i have deep affection for gambia else i would not be on this bantaba giving a damn in the first place. i have deep affection for zimbabwe, apparently one of the only two things i can speak about, according to madiba ( have a safe flight when you leave, matey.)
mammoth contributions my land of birth..i am in it now, doing my best for my family as you say we are all trying to do.
perhaps you might explain your first few lines. i think you are a bit askew. |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 19:09:47
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| From my first encounter with you till now you have always given the impression that you are from Zim. Sorry for getting the wrong impression about you. Don't you try to behead me now. |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 20:04:28
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my parents were from south africa, i was born and bred here. my wife is gambian.i have travelled all over africa and emigrated to zim in the 90's but had to come back as it deteriorated and became untenable for my position financially. i love africa , it's in my blood, and i am lucky enough to have seen quite a lot of it.i have forgone travel to many places in order to go back whenever i could. i think most on this bantaba know that feeling.
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 22:49:41
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Guys and gals let us keep the debate civil and educative. Sometimes it is out of ignorance or lack of understanding that people utter some statements or ask not so desirable questions. At the end of the debate we should all work out of here with little more than we knew when we started discussing the issues.
As rightly mentioned by all of you, this issue is very sensitive but there is nothing wrong asking questions the right way. Sometimes the way the questions are frame tells a lot about the kind of answers one gets.
Lurker must understand that UK which once wanted to dominate the whole world and thought they were superior to all humans are now heading towards the bottom of the list. The world mentality has moved beyong colonial domination.
Lurker's last post made me curious when he mentioned that he is a British by birth but his parents were from South Africa.
How did Lurker got to be a British by birth when his parents weren't born there? Isn't there a Bristish law that prevents immigrant kids born in Britain from being citizens? Or can someone clear the record for me.
How in the world would a child be borned in a country and yet refused citizenship by virtue of the fact that their parents were not citizens of that country? How could a nation take away the natural birth right of innocent babies? Oh I forgot it is the same mentality of we are friends but you can never become part of me.
Help me out and clear this confusion on my side please. Just seeking for answers I guess and excuse my ignorance on that. |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 22:59:23
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dbaldeh. i am no expert on citizenship, but i was born here , so that seemed to make a brit. how can football players with one british grandparent play for england.? because they have a british family member.etc etc.
is it not the country in which you are born which first and foremost dictates your citizenship? i thought that this was the main issue.and then they extrapolate a few extra rules as they see fit.
my mother registered us in joburg after she had left, as being born of south african parents. as a result, when my sister decided to go there 3 years ago, they found her papers from 40 years back and she was still entitled to live there, so she does. weird!
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