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lurker
509 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 00:19:34
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well, after another hard day's to -ing and fro-ing on this Bantaba, with a typically feisty discussion tailing off for the meantime, i wonder if those gambians who write on this bantaba would mind indulging me for a moment.
may i ask them, how many of the gambians in the diaspora on this bantaba intend to return home permanently to ply their various trades when they have reached their initial goals abroad? How many mean to , but probably won't? how many never intended to go back as soon as they left?
just curious..
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 01:17:15
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I know one guy who stayed in UK for 4-5 years. Got education, but after he was disappointed that the education he had in UK did not give opportunity he deserved (typical in western countries for migrants from the third world), despite his wife and the child was born in UK, he is back to Gambia permanently. He has a job, bought a house. He is in Gambia now. But this is only small percentage. I may be wrong after all.
But considering living conditions, education etc. I would not live in Gambia permanently with a child. If you don't have children or your child is older than 18, maybe.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 13 Jun 2008 01:18:41 |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 01:34:11
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Lurker, thanks for asking the questions. I think they are very valid questions and you may be surprise how many Gambians in fact wants to return and settle there permanently.
I think one need to understand under what circumstances people left Gambia and what their goals are in life. One also need to understand that once you start to build a family, the decisions one made are no longer unilateral. This therefore makes it more complicated to just draw a general conclusion that people don't want to return.
I can speak for myself and for many people I know or come across. It is a fact that many of us if not most of us left Gambia in search of education and better economic prosperity. That education is certainly very expensive and the goals for getting an education to for one to improve one's standard of living.
Those of us who have graduate degrees in any western nation must have incurred a lot of expenses for our education. It is therefore reason that once we earn our degrees we try to make a decent living where even if you go back to Gambia you don't have to rely on the government for employment and means of living.
I am proud to report that many Gambians can live a decent life in Gambia without having to rely on Government. However, the issue is more than just living a life. It is about being able to contribute to your nation's socio economic development. At this present moment the political conditions does not favor Gambians who are willing to spend their lives in public service.
I do in short believe that many of us do in fact return home on a regular basis and intend to return when the situation change on the ground. We are working hard to effect that change so we can return in large numbers.
Got to run but will dwell on this interesting topic later.... |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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jammin
Jamaica
149 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 02:52:13
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Turk, its always interesting to read the opinion of individuals as it relate to immigrants education and job opportunity.
I am always amazed at peoples' astonishment when they "play by the rules" acquire an education and find that they still remain at the outer fringes of economic prosperity.
The benefits of a country( especially Western, First World countries) is the exclusive domain of those who consider themselves to be the architects of development( within the country) and their children.
"Outsiders" are tolerated only by virtue of the contribution that they can make and in most cases they never get to utilize their potentials nor see the commensurate renumeration for jobs they do.
There is a name for this, but i shall not say it. Lurker will certainly make it more obvious with his awaited response. |
Like a colossus He doth bestride the Narrow World |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 08:21:21
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So far, you guys are not answering Lurker's question. Lurker's question requires you to provide specific numbers of (how many of):
1. Those who intend to return home permanently
2.Those who mean to, but probably won't and
2.Those who never intended to go back
This to me sounds like someone who asked you, "do you know what time it is?", and instead of responding "yes' or "no" you responded by saying 10.15 pm. Fifteen after ten might be the correct time, but that was not the question.
Now, I do not have the answers (specific numbers) to Mr. Lurker's questions, but we can probably run a poll on these questions to find out. what do you think Lurker? |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 09:38:15
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thank you for the answers. the reasons for leaving are interesting and varied, but perhaps Kayjatta is correct in the main as i was actually intersted in numbers per category in general terms. Perhaps a poll on the bantaba would be a good idea.
I started to think about this because my brother-in-law came over on a 6 month visa 2 years ago to visit us, after a reasonably easy application. We provided good papers and so on.
he is the most honest, decent, straight-forward gambian man i know (28).
He stayed in Birmingham, borrowed someone's I.D and NI number, got a job(illegally), sent money home, worked 24/7 and , obviously, earned more here in 4 months than he would have done in 5 yrs back home as a welder.
come the time up, he came to me, as the sponsor and older brother, and said that he had decided to break his visa and stay.
I cannot say that i was surprised, as life was so much better for him here and he had no dependants i,e wife and kids at home, although he was sending cash home to his father and siblings.
I simply said, you are an adult, you must do as you see fit, but bear in mind that i will be on computer as a bad sponsor now and it is highly unlikely that i will ever be able to invite my mother-in-law over again to see her grandkids as the BHC will deem me a dodgy sponsor as the last person i invited never returned! (maybe this would be a bonus...lol!)
anyway, he stayed and worked and became a gambian in the diaspora with all the mob in birmingham and was a liberated, matured, worldy-wiser individual. he did not become a bumster here or get in trouble as many do that i know.
3 months ago he got caught and was deported.
He had saved a bit and has enough to buy a taxi in gambia and make a life there better than it was, so the UK has bettered his life in many ways, albeit illegally, and yes, he did pay taxes out of his illegal earnings, which is more than some indigenous loafers ever do her while they hoover up their dole money and blame the foreigners for their woes.
so, to the point rather belatedly..
he is now miserable and very unhappy.
he came here , i believe, intending to go back. that attitude was changed as soon as he got pounds in his pocket.
he sent money home for a piece of land in youna and was royally screwed by one of his own gambian friends.
that put him off investing in gambia again.
he he discovered that hard work here can have its rewards, despite being an immigrant and being on the sharp end of some local criticisms these days.
He got a girlfriend and had his first jiggy.
he stayed off alcohol, but lapsed from prayers, but stayed halal.
he continued to be a very good and lovely man.
he is not educated, literate of particularly intelligent.
he now will probably be stuck in gambia forever having had his "chance" and "blown" it.
that makes him upseet as he feels gambia is only going to worsen for him for many of the reasons this bantaba has discussed.
so i would like to know from individuals here , not why you came , but whether you intended to stay from day 1, whether you honestly honestly will go back and put your skills back into your country's future, or whther , like my brother-in-law ( and i suspect this may be the majority) you meant to go back, but life is better away and you now know in your hearts that these good intentions are realistically evapourated and you will stay legally or otherwise.
It is a small country. If things get worse and more people leave, the drain there will bve felt more quickly than in a country with many more people.
someone asked about 90000 in usa and umpteen thousands elsewhere.
there are only 1,2 or 1,3 m in gambia anyway.
some people need to take their skills back to better the future there.
how does the counry entice the diasporans to come back and reinvest their skills and talents?
but please, if you answer at all, can you first categorise yourself in one of the brackets originally asked.
thanks
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Edited by - lurker on 13 Jun 2008 09:40:36 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 11:08:17
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I think the idea that his failure to return home will bar you from bringing your mother-in-law is a myth. It probably will not be that fast. Your mother-in-law's eligibility for a visa (application) to the U.K. I believe will be decided on its own merit. You brought him to U.K. in good faith, and that his (he is an adult) return back home may not legally be your responsibility.
I agree that down the line, if you have done this for a number of people who end up in serious violation of the law (felony probably), they will be linked to you, and a red flag might be raised against you good name ... |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 11:40:38
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Lurker
For your infor, I am returning this year permanently. In addition to that, my London business is also coming with me, I've already secured a site in Gambia and another site in Nigeria. Therefore, I will be contributing towards the economic development of both the Gambia and Nigeria. Is that straight enough for you? |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 11:52:48
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| thnaks, tamsier. you are instrumental in the future of your country.who else is going back? |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 12:01:50
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| I personally have young kids here in U.S., so I do not see myself going back soon. When are you and your wife going back Lurker? |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 12:18:29
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since i first travelled there in 1990, i loved it and imagined living there one day.
like you, i have young kids, one starting school next year. despite my strong desire to live there , i now find certain obstacles
1) my kids schooling - even if there are equivalent schools there, i would have to uproot them mid-schooling to make this happen for me, ? selfish of me to their detriment
2)i worry about the future there economically
3) i worry, as you know, about the political stability
4) seems to me that the quality of life gambia offers may not be the same in 5 or 10 years time - hope i am wrong on all counts
5) my wife does no longer want to return to what she calls "the small town mentality" of her old haunts and the pressure from her family
6) i have found the intense pressure from her families for money and materials quite hard sometimes and i fear it would be incessant if i lived there - that is a personal feeling
7)toubab friends there are , rightly or wrongly, making me a little nervous about the future of toubabs in gambia. having lived in zim and watched such stuff already, i pray that such a thing could not happen to toubab business owners and home owners there - probably won't
most of the above could be paranoia, granted.
the harsh reality is that, and i agree with turk, it is probably not everybody's choice of place to raise kids after they have been in the west for most of their formative years.
i appreciate a lot would depend on personal wealth to gain wider choices.
none of this matters now as the wife simply will not countenance living there again due to a complicated and traumatic personal history.
i , of course, hope to travel there many times again, and keep my boys in touch with their roots.
this is also money-dependent and not easy as i have a new business.
but i miss the place like crazy after 17 months away and still close my eys on sunday and imagine i am at jokors with the drums playing and chama jeng cadging a bailey's off me , as he always does! |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 12:30:36
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Yes kids make relocation a difficult decision...
I often tell my wife that no matter how long it takes, I would like to go back and spend my last years (smoking my pipe) in Niumi... |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 12:38:12
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| i would rather die under a palm tree in africa, old and broke, than die old and broke in miserable london. |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 14:18:25
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| Everyone, has their reasons for going back/ not going back, that's why I dont like to judge. However, i strongly believe that life is full of risk and you never know your potential or impact if you dont take risks. True, the political situations under Devil Jammeh is not desirable, true the economy is not desirable either, but I have the old school mentality - 'if you do nothing no matter how small, you do not earn the right to complain'. Again not to judge, but it saddens me that the highly educated Gambians/Africans who could make an immense contribution to our contenent - and put it on the map again since the days of Mansa Musa's hajj, have no or little desire to go back. Instead, their hard work and efforts is spend on advancing further a country that's already developed while their mother land is backwards - plagued by high unemployment, illness - some of which are easily treatable, starvation, uneducated, etc. Everyone has a part to play and everyone's contribution is vital. I know i am not the only African who feel this way. But there is a difference being feeling it and doing it. When my father came to further his studies with my mum in England decades ago, the moment he got his qualifications, my mum and dad sold our house and all of us [including me and my brother and sister who were born in England] moved back to the Gambia. He became one of the top in his chosen field. He took the risk and in taking the risk contributed his part and his children haven't done badly either. On the other hand, a relative of mine who came to England before my father, graduated and became a doctor, he got married here, contributed to Britain, and refused to go back to the Gambia. He died few years ago after his childless divorce - a sad lonely man. During his last days, his wish was to be buried in the Gambia - a country he originally rejected to go back to. At his dying bed, it was only my brother and I who were beside him as he departs this world. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 13 Jun 2008 14:21:31 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 16:35:18
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Lurker, my husband stayed in Gambia for a couple of months and when he returned to Germany in April, he told that at the moment many Gambians come back home from the Diaspora. He said that chances in Gambia now are far better than before, and investments pay. According to him, Jammeh does a much better job as a president than his critics concede.
We are planning to go (back) to Gambia in 10 or 11 years. |
Edited by - serenata on 13 Jun 2008 16:38:00 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 19:08:29
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| It is my understanding in the UK that if you sponsor someone and give them character references then you are responsible for their conduct. Eg if they run up debts then the person can come to you and expect you to pay. It is like Loco parentis.....only for a grown adult. Please correct me if I am wrong. I wouldn't enter into it lightly. |
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