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Momodou
Denmark
11828 Posts |
 Posted - 04 May 2008 : 12:57:16
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A film which explores the history of the Hebrew. Is the state of Israel, the Israel of the Scriptures (Bible)?
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A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 18:41:53
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There are people who believe that the Africans are part the lost tribes of Judae. Well if you look at 300 years of slavery, its easy for blacks to believe that the Bible was speaking of them.
Religion is a complex issue and does not ask us to be critical. You have to believe without questioning. There is a correlation between wealth and religion. the more wealth one has, the less religious one becomes. I just dont know why?
Hope is the foundaton of any religion. The hope of salvation, peace, comfort. Thats why in jails, you hear prisoners echoing Moses' worhds to Pharoah "Let my people Go".
I had always wondered why Africa never had a Prophet or did we have one that we never knew of.
How can a whole continent not have atleast one chosen Prophet just beats my imagination. A Ghanaian friend of mind once challenged me with the same question. He was an atheist because he said, he did not see himself or his people in organised religion as partners but as converts only.
Ofcourse, if you read the story of King Solomon and Queen Sheba of Ethiopia, and their son Menelik, through whom Haile Selassie directly descendended from, Its true that there are Africans of Jewish descent. Our own Fulani are believed to have migrated south after Exodus.
This Ethiopian Fellahs eventually moved north after the founding the state of Israel and partly explains the dark skinned citizens you see on TV once in a while. Infact, one of the holiest churces in Israel is assigned tot the Ethiopina Coptic Church close to the church of the Holy Seprica.
The Arc of the Covenant which was believed to have been given by Solomon to his son Menelike is in Ethiopia including the Flying Carpet. There are accounts of these in Egyptian books of the men on flying carpets going south and in the Ethiopian Text, the name i cannot now rememeber. ( it sounds like GEBRE..CAT"). Some believe that the Italian invasion was motivated by the desire to retrive these holy objects which is called in Judaism "The Holy of Holy"
The Arc contained the "Ten Commandments" inscribed by God on a tablet to Moses after the Exodus from Egypt.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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sisay
48 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 10:05:08
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Thank you for your interesting reply, Konderong. As usual you have shown your wide-reaching knowledge. My understanding of the Arc of Covenant is that it was part of the great temple in Jerusalem. This temple was built twice. It was destroyed first by the Babylonians and then by the Romans. After that it was never again built. Some believe that this Holy of Holies existed on the site where the Dome of the Rock now stands in Jerusalem. Of course, the Ethiopians say that when Solomon began a Judaic kingdom in Kush (Ethiopia), he took the Arc with him. There is nothing in the bible to support this.
Incidentally, the bible speaks of two eras of slavery. Exodus only speaks of the period in Egypt. Do you know the song, "By the Rivers of Babylon"? This 2nd period happened much later during the 6th Century BC. The holy temple was destroyed and the vast majority of Israelites captured as slaves. About 50 years later Babylon was captured by Persia and the king of Persia allowed the Israelites to return, which about 40,000 did. After that period for the first time there began a Jewish diaspora that continued to the present day.
As a result of continuous exile, Jews spread to most of the world. So it's inevitable that they would have interbred and taken on the physical appearance of the people in their new lands. Many ended up in Europe. During the 12th to 15th Centuries a great many accumulated in Spain, which were then exiled to the Middle East and Eastern Europe. So you'll see a great many Jews that have olive or dark skin. The majority of Jews, however, have lighter skin and more European features.
According to the bible, Jews were a bronze colour. This suggests that they were dark skinned, but not as dark as their Sub-Saharan counterparts. Indeed, all people in the region were (and mostly still are) of this complexion. There is of course the story of Solomon who married the Queen of Sheba (Ethiopia). So this would account for those that are even darker. During the 1980s when the famine in Ethiopia was widely televised, there was mass migration of Ethiopians to Israel. There were those of Jewish descent as well as those who claimed to be to escape their fate and seek a better life in the Holy Land. Earlier in the century there was also a big migration of Jews from Yemen (also very dark skinned) to Israel. Many of those even walked the great distance which was a perilous journey.
By all accounts there are many similarities between Jews and Africans, but does it necessarily reflect a shared ancestry? Perhaps they share similar histories and that is all? Maybe it's just humanity repeating itself? I cannot help but note that Egypt is considered part of the African continent, and Israel is just next door to it. Prior to monotheism the Israelites carried out ancestral worship, sacrifices and other practices which were similar to those found all over Africa. There must be a common link in the distant past. |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 16:07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
I had always wondered why Africa never had a Prophet or did we have one that we never knew of.
How can a whole continent not have atleast one chosen Prophet just beats my imagination. A Ghanaian friend of mind once challenged me with the same question. He was an atheist because he said, he did not see himself or his people in organised religion as partners but as converts only.
Kondorong, I think you raised some interesting questions to which the Quran spoke about in numerous verses and I will try to cite a couple Insa Allah. I believe the state of israel(as it exists today) is different from the israel of the scriptures. Furthermore, it rules out negroes or black people today.
And for every Ummah (a community or a nation), there is a Messenger; when their Messenger comes, the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (10:47)
And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allâh (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Tâghût (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Tâghût besides Allâh)." Then of them were some whom Allâh guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth).(16:36)
And We sent not a Messenger except with the language of his people, in order that he might make (the Message) clear for them. Then Allâh misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.(14:4)
And, indeed We have sent Messengers before you (O Muhammad SAW); of some of them We have related to you their story[] And of some We have not related to you their story...(40:78) |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 16:49:21
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No Israel of the bible is not the state of israel.
Who remembers the black holy man(Savonarola)?
The bush preacher and in a revolutionary manner Savonarola are one of the blackest shapes of the Renaissance. Although only a simple monk, the princes and even the Pope before him trembled. Savonarola is today to a large extent forgotten nevertheless. " The black Prophet" likewise after like the question about the topicality of its working into the present. This man would have sealed the end of the Renaissance in the single-handed attempt almost. For Martin Luther is " the faithful catholic Savonarola; true holy" , for Goethe "a grotesque , fantastic decuman". Savonarola is one of the most eloquent preachers ever., Ten thousands wait for hours, in order to hear it preach in the cathedral to Florence. The monk pulls against the sounding life change of its contemporaries likewise to field as against the Unmoral of the dominant ones. intrepid seizes a party for the small people and frightens the powerful ones with uncanny prophecies. Terribly particularly, because its announcements of death actually go into fulfillment. On the high point of its power Savonarola actually tears the rule over Florence and establishes one "theocracy". The child police created by it roams across the city and terrorizes exchange brokers, lovers and up-attractive women. It comes with the probably most notorious Pope in the history of the Vatican into an inexorable duel and becomes the danger for it: Alexander VITH Borgia, which back-frightens together with its son Cesare before no bloody deeds. Attempted assassinations on Savonarola fail; finally is a God judgement, which ordeal by fire so called, on it to decide whether Savonarola is a prophet of God or a satanically leader. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 17:44:00
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Mansasulu
Who was the prophet that spoke my language. How come that if Africans had a prophet, that we could trace the worship of one God in our culture?
Sisay
Is it by concidence that the Dome of the Rock is built on the site of the old Temple? Well both religions trace their source from Abraham, who is called the Father of Religion. In fact, during the rcent Iraq war, forces were asked to avoid an old house believed to have been that of Abraham in some parts of Iraq.
But the problem is, Africans seem to have been "deliberately" left out or perhaps we were not in existence by then. Science says live started in the East African Rift Valley (oldest bones) whiles religions says it was in Eden some where in the Middle East.
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“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 19:01:31
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quote:
Mbay,
Who remembers the black holy man(Savonarola)?
Is this the "black holy man" you're talking about? The concept of a "revolutionary" black/African prophet really thrills me. I'm only aware of Shembe (the Zulu prophet), but his prophecy was pretty recent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girolamo_Savonarola
Can you please post a link to your man's profile? |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
Edited by - Prince on 06 May 2008 19:17:30 |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 21:25:18
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| Kondorong, if your language represented any "nation" in the past then you were sent a prophet because that is what Allah said in the Quran. I cannot name you a prophet who spoke your language because Allah also said that HE related some of the stories of these prophets and others he did not mentioned. Can you imagine how long that list will be! According to a sound hadith 124,000 (315 of whom were messengers) were sent by Allah during the course of history. It is also a possibility that your language today did not represent a nation in the past. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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BornAfrican
United Kingdom
119 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 02:52:04
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Mansa sulu,
has there ever been a prophet from Africa? i mean a black prophet for that matter. the only prominent black figure in Islam that i heard of was a slave. his name was Bilal, infact no one wants to name his/her child after him. do we have people called Bilal in the Gambia? i've never heard of one. there might be, but i never come across one.
it makes me ask myself lots of questions.
africans have always followed others' ideologies. no wonder we never go forward. everything that we hold on to is foreign and we will never understand them, thereby leaving us confused. we read the scriptures but we never understand them, so we always misinterpret them. we were so dumb and made ourselves inferior to others by letting go what our ancestors perfected for those ideologies brought to us by Eurasian conquerors. they caused division and mistrust among the African brotherhood. had we stuck on to our ancestors' way, we would have found our 'way' and not be wondering in this wilderness we find ourselves today.
the original jews were of a semitic race. semetic means black. |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 07:21:14
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quote:
Originally posted by BornAfrican
do we have people called Bilal in the Gambia?
Yes we have a lots. At least in serrakoulehs but in only those calls Koumeh. plural, Koumoo (slaves)
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 15:54:03
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BornAfrican, the only prominent black figure you know in Islam was most importantly liberated from slavery because of islam. Without islam, chances were he probably would die as a slave.
Furthermore, you asked a question (a prophet from Africa) Kondorong already asked to which I answered. In short, if Africa (as we know it today) represented a nation in the past, then it received a prophet because that is what Allah said in the Quran. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 16:40:07
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Look in scriptures and you will see that the Prophets don't arise in the peacefully nation, every prophet that has come in every nations have the meaning in that nation.
Prophecy is not politically, Prophet cannot be choose by mankind but from His majesty(The most higher)
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BornAfrican
United Kingdom
119 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 17:30:06
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quote:
if Africa (as we know it today) represented a nation in the past, then it received a prophet because that is what Allah said in the Quran.
Mansasulu,
this statement does not make any sense to me with all respect. Africa has always represented the black nation long before the term 'Africa' was coined by conquerors but we never heard of a black prophet. there never was one. you know why we will never know? because we Africans know more about only Arabian and European history. we know nothing about our own. sad story. when i was a child, they will tell me about the story of Arabs but no one dares talk about people like Kelepha Sanneh, Ansumana Manneh, Ngaling Sonko, Musa Molo and others. You know why? they were made to look inferior in our records. Ask any 15 year old Gambian about the people i mentioned, and i bet they don't know them. on the contrary, ask them about the lowest of Arabs in history and they will will tell you even their favourite meals.
bro, i think there has been and there's some kinda 'leg pulling' in this whole thing.
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 18:01:05
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Interesting debate pls keep it flowing(Mansa, Mbye and Born African).
I would like to just chip in for now. First of all Islam in its purest sense, that is, without having people using it to make their own gains , is a Universal religion . Black is a term that i use often , but when looked at critically is a misnomer. What makes a blackman man black and a whiteman white? Is it black skin? Black hair or black blood? Can someone out there help? Because to me no such human skin exist as black as a blackboard or coal. And i have never seen any white person , as white as snow. So where did we get our identities black and white from?
Born African has touched on an important issue, the lost of our history as blacks. We need to write our history from the little we are left with. Making us look inferior was one of the many subtle ways those who enslaved, colonized and dictate used to conquer us.I am told by a friend who studied in a certain north african country, that kids in junior school there are taught more of their history and a little less history of the continent that hosted them for hundreds of yrs, Africa. What does that say to us africans? I would like to clarify here though that, Arabism and Islam and two different things. Islam came to Arabia when Arabia was mostly pagan. As it stands today, there are both Arab Muslims and Christians in Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Morocco etc. Some of our people mistakenly take certain things that are arabic and think they are islamic. With regards to black prophets there could have been. Because for me am yet to find any literature which describes the looks of these prophets. But as Mansa quoted from the Holy Quran, Allah sent prophets to every nation. I think if we are able to define what black is, then we will be able to solve the puzzle. Abyssinia is refeered to in many religious literature and am told Abyssinia is present day Ethiopia.
Born African, yes there are people called Bilal. I had a student called Bilal(Black Gambian), and I know another Bilal(Arab), a telecoms Engineer.
I stop here for now.Konds (laugh)
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madiss |
Edited by - MADIBA on 07 May 2008 22:43:39 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 19:05:53
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BornAfrican, I think you raised some very valid points as far as our history goes, but you have no evidence as to whether there was ever a black prophet or not. In as much I cant prove there ever was one, neither can you prove there wasn't one. Besides, the skin color of a prophet is irrevant because all human beings are human beings. The reason we dont have any recording of a black prophet signifies the importance of the skin color of a prophet.
The fact is that our ancestors developed no recording system that survived with time. Most of all we know about the past was passed along by griots. I have listened to the histories of the likes of Kelepha Sanneh, Ansumana Manneh, Jankey Wally etc...and "many at times" these historical accounts harp more on the bravery of these men and nothing more. It is interesting to listen to them because it gives you an insight to their lives and their times. However, the purpose of the human being is far greater that what we glean from those historical accounts.
In a nut shell, if black people were ever a nation, they were sent a messenger, because that is what Allah said. Now if you are asking for a prophet for Africa after the coming of Muhammad may I submit to you that Muhammad was sent to Africa and he did deliver the message. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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