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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Dec 2007 : 11:26:41
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quote:
This should be an opportunity for all peace-loving people to condemn terrorists and extremists.
Or, an opportunity to condemn, deep government, mossad style prejudicial justice by government, imperialism, india, what else?
First of all, let us condemn political violance, regardless of political opinion people have. This must be condemed. Obviously, charge of islamic terrorism as our yankee friend demonstrates here, kind of, reminds me oklahoma bombing. Anyway, that is another story.
Let us see the players. We have a dicta, who has been supported by west in the name of the war of terrorism. He is desperate. He is pro-western, ally or 'puppet'.
quote:
Bhutto is a champion of the Pakistani poor despite her her own well-to-do background, hence her alienation with the business, political and military elite. But perhaps Bhutto also represent the future of women in the muslim world in general. Furthermore, her populist and progressive policies endeared her to many around the world. Her claim that she will allow U.S. military to operate in Pakistan is no different , in my view, from the presidential hopeful Barack Obama's proclamation that he will strike terrorist suspects within the borders of Pakistan. Both Bhutto and Obama made those statements with the understanding that there are large areas of Pakistani border areas that are "no-man's land", not under the control of the government. These tribal areas represent a dangerous cocktail of lawlessness, banditry, arms and drug traficking, as well as terrorist activity against the pakistani government and the interest of U.S and its European allies. Bhutto intends to stand tough against lawlessness and extremism, that is why she became a target for militant assassins...
We have an ex-pro democracy, pro-western benazir, who was unable to improve anything in pakistan other than her pocket. She was charged by corruption. Unlike kayjatta indicates here, she is not a representative of poor. She is definetely not champion of poor. She is champion of western capital. She is well supported by business that was milking the pakistan's economy with her. She will indeed let yankees have a military base and sell the country. She was corrupt herself, so how can she fight against lawlessnes? The third player, islamic extremists, conservatives, poor pakistanis who support islamic agenda.
So who would kill her? Recently al-kaida claimed that they did not do it. So is taliban. I am not sure if they are telling the truth, they have very valid motivation doing that. But I don't think so. I ask the simple question. Who gets most benefit from her death?
She was not going to win the election, even she wins she would not get the majority against islamic agenda or dicta. Our dicta would have a good chance to win the elections against islamic agenda in Pakistan. Because the supporters of benazir will not vote for islamic extremists, they will want stability and vote for the dicta. Let us see the developments.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 29 Dec 2007 20:34:56 |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2007 : 16:46:12
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Turk,
You have some very valid observations flagged on this issue. |
Karamba |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2007 : 10:01:46
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| peace be with her, but watch out for the country, serious reprecussion wills follow. |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 10:04:04
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
I am not so convinced that Benazir Bhutto was a flawless democrat and that she would have been good for Pakistan (the US Army operating in Pakistan?? Another Iraq or Afghanistan???), but she should not end like that. She was a strong and courageous woman. I don't agree with her political strategies, but she has my deep respect.
serenata,
I have the same opinion as you here. Lets wait for the outcome of the whole thing. I heard she wants her son or husband to succeed her. Is there no body else who is capaible? What about her vice chairman. If they do as in Congo then I do not belive in that kind of succession of politicians. |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 17:01:11
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Indeed, Am asking my self too whats all this about, a 19 yrs old of Oxford student to be a chairman in Co. with his Father .
Well, the part most know why, as i read that it was Ms Bhutto's will .
In a such political turmoil country I think he is too young for leading a opposition part like PPP.
Lets see what will come out.
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 18:22:43
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Do they think that a combination of the name Bhutto and the youthful age of 19 is a recipe which will both stop the killers taking this boy out as he is young and yet will keep the voters who loved his mother?
I suggest that those who killed her would not bat an eyelid at killing him to stop this party gaining power.
Therefore, i think it is heinous that they even suggest his taking over the leadership, let alone actually allowing it to happen--they have signed his death warrant. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 21:15:29
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| 19 years old take the leadership from mother! Is it monacracy or demarchy? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 02 Jan 2008 21:34:25 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 22:21:31
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They are trying for stability amongst instabilty.
He is VERY young. But was brought up in a very political family and with his fathers guidance he may manage to cope.
But he looks like a lamb to the slaughter. I really hope that in a few weeks time we wont be commenting on his murder. Ideally he will go back to Oxford, come to terms with his mothers death and leagacy and then make an informed adult decision about what he wants to do with his life.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 23:17:04
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ahem.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080102/wl_time/missingevidencefrombhuttosmurder
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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jammin
Jamaica
149 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2008 : 07:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
This should be an opportunity for all peace-loving people to condemn terrorists and extremists. Ms. Bhutto represented the contradictions of Pakistan. A woman, Harvard educated, pro-Western, pro-democracy, in an impoverish religious conservative country.
quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Bhutto's assassination today is a result of religious extremism and Musharaf's failure to provide adequate security for her. Her opposition to Musharaf made her no friend of the military general.
She is was a brave and courageous woman who stood up for democracy in Pakistan, and championed the cause of the Pakistani poor.
quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
She will certainly get her majestic place in history, unlike the 'no-person' who killed her. May her dear soul rest in peace and may her murderer burn in eternal hell fire...
A two term corrupt politician, who saw leadership of Pakistan as a privilege right. |
Like a colossus He doth bestride the Narrow World |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2008 : 08:52:43
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I personally do not support a small group of people or one family to cling to power all the time. I have always alluded to Prof. C.E. Welch's contention that "democracy works best in places where there is no one group of people that continue to hold on to power year after year".
I would not tolerate the selection of Ms. Bhutto's son, Bilalawal Bhutto, but for the emotional (and politically advantageous circumstances that ensued following the murder of his mother, Benazir). His selection as co-chair of the party, in my view, is at best symbolic yet important in galvanizing the determination of the party supporters to oust Musharaf in the coming election. This appears to be evident in the party's insistence on the immediate convening of elections knowing that support and sympathy for the party is highest now due to the demise of Ms. Bhutto.
Contrary to Jammin's contention that Bhutto is a two "term corrupt politician", Ms. Bhutto has not been convicted of any of those corruption charges that are much talked about. Besides, similar corruption charges were levied on her successor, Nawar Sharif. Apparently, it is a trend in Pakistan and perhaps elsewhere that a trumped up charge of corruption and economic crimes are conveniently applied to ousted leaders (especially by military leaders who succeed them). |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2008 : 09:41:59
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quote:
Ms. Bhutto has not been convicted of any of those corruption charges that are much talked about.
lol. kayjatta, you amuse me :) Her husband, during her rule, milk everthing from government. Of course she did not do anything, why should she?
And, your 'islamic terrorism','democracy warrior' theories turning to 'cia type of assassination' and 'corrupt monarchy' was kinda funny. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2008 : 17:35:39
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Thanks, Alhassan - meanwhile we know what she planned...
Maybe there is more than one form of democracy. Maybe it is only natural that democracy is defined differently in different cultures. But I think that political dynasties like the Bhuttos, who 'own' a whole party, don't have much to do with the idea of democracy. If I'm not mistaken, this has always been called feudalism. Kayjatta, I don't understand how such people can be advocates of the poor. But maybe this is what they are telling you in the US.
Benazir Bhutto was said to be highly corrupt. True or not - it is a shame for the democratic culture of the West that we always excuse the gravest delinquencies of our allies, or - right, Turk! - should we call them puppets? |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2008 : 20:58:52
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
True or not - it is a shame for the democratic culture of the West that we always excuse the gravest delinquencies of our allies...............................
as a disciple i forward an excellent article from the Great Simon Jenkins about democracy 'lectures'. however this article is not directed towards the UK only.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2233964,00.html |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2008 : 10:54:52
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i agree with kay, if you support someone just because they are of the same family, that equals tribalism/nepotism/wrong loyalities, it creates tension, creates expectations. think about political family dynasties, kennedys, think about wealthy families, hilton, rothschilds etc.
the young man is far too young to be thinking about being the next leader his every move will be watched.
As for who killed Benazir, i would look closer to home, it could the unknown assasin, who killed ghandi, who kill kennedy, look closer to home.
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