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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 00:42:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Serekundajock
I have been to a Humanist Funeral was different from the normal ones we go to. They believe when they die that they return back to the elements from which they came. Atheist's are not bad people just have a different opinion.An atheist born and taught in say a christian country will still have the values of that religion in there lives for all time.
Many thanks!
"They believe when they die that they return back to the elements from which they came." Is that so? Then its the same belief as with Islam! 
On the other hand, what are the elements from which they came There could be different different levels of understanding on those elements
"Atheist's are not bad people just have a different opinion."
Thats a FACT AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH 100% in my opinion.
Also Muslims belief that ALLAH (Who created all mankind) is the best JUDGE & MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE! |
Edited by - kobo on 30 Nov 2007 00:47:29 |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 07:12:59
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| Kobo: ashes to ashes and dust to dust... |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 08:51:56
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quote:
Originally posted by anna
Kobo: ashes to ashes and dust to dust...
Anna Islam is linked with other great religions and philosophers. Prophet Abraham (s.a.w) is the father of all nations on Judaism, Christianity & Islamic beliefs.
Prophet Moses /'Musa' (s.a.w) brought the ten commandments & holy scriptures being Tora to TEACH & GUIDE us about SUPREME JEHOVAH. Later Prophet Jesus /'Essa' (s.a.w) TAUGHT us another holy scriptures being the bible to TEACH & GUIDE us to his LORD GOD AND NOT MAKE HIM THAT LORD GOD. Ultimately Prophet Muhammmad (s.a.w) brought the Quran to TEACH & GUIDE us all thats in the TORA and BIBLE, follow supreme ALLAH.
The Arabs and Jews are from great grand father Prophet Abraham (s.a.w) and these scriptures are complimentary to each other. However POLITICS, CULTURE, GREED & CORRUPTION are very dangerous against them. Here today modern world and global village is divided between East & West, Super powers, Third World etc etc.
Your view on those elements of "ashes to ashes and dust to dust..." might not be what Humanist understands! However 'ashes to ashes and dust to dust...' is not only for those greart religions but other spiritual beliefs including SATANISTS. That 'ashes to ashes and dust to dust..' have SCIENTIFIC definitions on elements of MATTER. You can be taught to undertand WONDERS OF NATURE in different ways.
Thanks and hope Serekundajack will chip in something for us to learn. |
Edited by - kobo on 30 Nov 2007 09:06:09 |
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Serekundajock
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 19:36:41
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| Hi Kobo,if I remember correctly they believe that we return to the chemicals we are made up of potassium, carbon etc. Don't quote me. They do not believe in an afterlife when you are dead you are dead. Humanists seem to want what everybody wishes that we all live harmoniously together religious or not. They don't believe in a supernatural being such as God or that we were put here by aliens etc. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2007 : 00:30:21
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"Hi Kobo,if I remember correctly they believe that we return to the chemicals we are made up of potassium, carbon etc."
Thats natural on every living and non-living things. Elements of matter in science.
It is their conviction not to belief in after-life, God or aliens amongst other things. However certain religions have many reasons attributable to belief in after-life and God. Many of those convincing reasons are just reflections and inspirations of WONDERS OF NATURE. Hope that humanist understands and appreciates NATURE (NON-ARTIFICIAL EXISTENCE). Let them understand that life for humans or animal kingdom bacame through REPRODUCTION CYCLE and not CHEMICAL REACTIONS. |
Edited by - kobo on 01 Dec 2007 00:39:32 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2007 : 06:40:20
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It appears that all life(not just the animal kingdom) is given through reproduction, either sexually or asexually.
Also I do not know how you can separate reproduction from chemical reactions. I think reproduction is in fact a series of many chemical reactions.
This universe, in actual fact is like a huge chemical factory in which chemicals constantly react to produce all what we see and observe...
May be you could clarify... |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2007 : 22:20:26
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| did albert aistien once said ''science without religious is useless and religion without science is void''.also frances bacon state that ''written knowledge of science makes you an athiest but indept knowledge of science make you a believer''.there are many scientist who believe in god and creation.if any one wish to use a theory which is not proven to dispute the existence of god ,then he/she is on a weak arguement. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 06:49:00
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Santafara,could you tell me where in the world did Albert Einstein say that, which book and which year was it published? If in fact Einstein said that, without context, I would be glad to put my hand up and disagree with him. But first answer my question and then I will tell you why I will disagree with one of my heroes.
Please, could you also learn to proof read and edit your writing for spellings. I am one of your biggest readers and I expect clarity on your part. Thank you. |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 07:34:55
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kay ,point noted concerning my proof reading.
now the concept of God varies from society to society and similarly scientist of the past where not hungho about unbelieve in a creator .you may find einstein's comments about a personal God very unclear but people change their thoughts from time to time .check out this page and see the famous scientist who believe in God .i am not taking any reason from them to my believe in god ,just to put another point accross .many unbelievers like to use science and scientist and philosophers to give as reason for their unbelieve.
http://www.godandscience.org/
"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." (Albert Einstein
Famous Scientists Who Believed in God
Belief in God
Is belief in the existence of God irrational? These days, many famous scientists are also strong proponents of atheism. However, in the past, and even today, many scientists believe that God exists and is responsible for what we see in nature. This is a small sampling of scientists who contributed to the development of modern science while believing in God. Although many people believe in a "God of the gaps", these scientists, and still others alive today, believe because of the evidence.
Rich Deem
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gases, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Famosos Científicos Que Creyeron en Dios
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Edited by - Santanfara on 03 Dec 2007 07:47:04 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 07:38:15
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Santafara,could you tell me where in the world did Albert Einstein say that, which book and which year was it published? If in fact Einstein said that, without context, I would be glad to put my hand up and disagree with him. But first answer my question and then I will tell you why I will disagree with one of my heroes.
Please, could you also learn to proof read and edit your writing for spellings. I am one of your biggest readers and I expect clarity on your part. Thank you.
kay check out this link .
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 09:46:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
did albert aistien once said ''science without religious is useless and religion without science is void''.also frances bacon state that ''written knowledge of science makes you an athiest but indept knowledge of science make you a believer''.there are many scientist who believe in god and creation.if any one wish to use a theory which is not proven to dispute the existence of god ,then he/she is on a weak arguement.
But you misquoted Einstein, he did not say the words you used. There is clearly a difference. Didn't you see that?
You may also want to verify your sources. Kepler for example was actually forced to quit his teaching job at the Graz... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 03 Dec 2007 10:20:14 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 10:45:37
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The sources you are relying on Santafara are advocates of Christianity. They are guilty of the same illusions the so-called atheists are guilty of. It is always useless to try to prove or disprove the existence of God. There is no prove, it is a matter of believe or not to believe.
The scientists you mentioned aboved lived through a period of their own generation, a very religious generation. However, all of these people are known to have stood by science where science conflicts with their religion, and many of them suffered for it...
No scientist ever proved that God does not exist, and I do not know of any clergy who proved that God in deed exists. We need to stop looking for a prove, and perhaps focus on functional (practical) religion...
That is religion that BENEFITS people, religion that UNITES people, religion that MAKES THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE for all... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 03 Dec 2007 11:09:07 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 12:09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
The sources you are relying on Santafara are advocates of Christianity. They are guilty of the same illusions the so-called atheists are guilty of. It is always useless to try to prove or disprove the existence of God. There is no prove, it is a matter of believe or not to believe.
The scientists you mentioned aboved lived through a period of their own generation, a very religious generation. However, all of these people are known to have stood by science where science conflicts with their religion, and many of them suffered for it...
No scientist ever proved that God does not exist, and I do not know of any clergy who proved that God in deed exists. We need to stop looking for a prove, and perhaps focus on functional (practical) religion...
That is religion that BENEFITS people, religion that UNITES people, religion that MAKES THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE for all...
KAY,DON'T CONFUSE ME.i am not trying to prove to you that god exist.i believe in the existence of god ,that goes with the concept that others don't believe .we are only trying to expand the arquement that some people of knowledge and repute also do believe in god.you are right ,i misquoted eistein,i was quoting from memory but i did retrieve his original words. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 13:19:28
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| Gotcha... |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 16:32:51
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"One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment."
— Steven Weinberg, Nobel laureate physicist, A Designer Universe? |
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| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
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