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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Nov 2007 : 02:20:34
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World news MSNBC; There is a God, leading atheist concludes
Philosopher says scientific evidence changed his mind under http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6688917/
Yet controversy looms in his mind with these comments extracted from above link; Im thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins, he said. It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose.
Reproduction of another report (in Good News) by Andrew Halloway reads:- "World's leading atheist finds proof of God. Professor Anthony Flew, the most renowned atheist of the 20th century, caused one of the biggest religious news stories of the 21st century when he announced that he has changed his mind. Now he has published a book that explains why: he's found evidence of a Creator. A man who argued for 50 years that God doesn't exist this month (November 2007) a book called There is a God
Flew has concluded that a super-intelligence or first cause must have created life and the universe, because "all creatures are complicated pieces of design."
And last year he was even a co-signatory to a letter, along with several scientist, sent to the Government of UK to ask that schools be allowed to teach Intelligent Design theory in the classroom. Intelligent Design is a direct challenge to the theory of evolution, which acknowledges the appearance of design in living things but writes it off as an illusion.
Flew is famous for his paper, Theology and Falsification, that was presented as a meeting of the Oxford Socratic Club chaired by C.S.Lewsis in 1949. It went on to become the most widely reprinted philosohical publication of the last five decades.
In it, Flew argued that we should not believe in God until evidence for God is found. Now that evidence has been found, he says, There is a God explains how new discoveries in science support the theory of Intelligent Design.
Unbelievable
Micobiology, for example, "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce life, that intelligence must have been involved," Flew says.
He continues; "The argument to Intelligent Design is enormously stronger than it was when I fisrt met it..It now seems to me that the findings of more than 50 years of DNA reasearch have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design."
In this respect he argrees with Einstein, who also belived in "an intelligence that produced the integrative complexity of creation."
Critics have said that, as an old man approaching the end of life, Flew is just hedging his bets. But the professor still doesn't believe in an afterlife' so that is not the reason for his U-turn. Flew says he is simply sticking to the view that he has held all his life, that he must go "whatever the evidence leads."
And as it now leads him to belief in God, he has had the courage to say he was wrong about atheism."
There is a God: How the World's Most Notorius Atheist Changed His Mind is co-authored by Roy Abraham Varghese and is published by HarperCollins.
Conclusion from Good News Paper
"Good news hopes that his intellectual honesty will lead him to discover that not only did God create this world, but he also came into this world as Jesus."
The following selected Bantaba topics provide some interesting references:-
I) MAN PLAYING GOD ? under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4217
II) Where it starts there it will end!!! under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4586
III) an atheist once told me judgement day make sense under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4724
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Edited by - kobo on 17 Nov 2007 03:07:43 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2007 : 14:20:29
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curiosity kills the cat.
i had fun following such a wonderful development.
This guy is a good fellow & he should keep on his research and update us with developments. he have only few bridges to cross to get to the real world.
in siral "ikra" when the lord said "read", twice
1st "Read", knowledge that is beneficial/open knowledge
2nd "read", knowledge of your creator
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2007 : 18:35:17
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Is this another C.S.Lewis ? But frankly, any attempt to prove that 'God does not exist' is as futile as it is to prove that 'He exists'. The concept of God is a question of definition, yet prove is elusive here.
I see more sense in Einstein and Spinoza's God; and Pope's God who "...in the beginning said let there be Newton". |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2007 : 03:29:14
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Its more than "Let there be!" but only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature. Moreso on commonsense, logical reflections and inpirations on these few points:-
1) "evidence of a Creator"
2) "all creatures are complicated pieces of design."
3) Religion is deeply rooted in belief in God and without any belief in God (That Supreme Authority!) or whatever name is given; there is no religion and spiritual benefits, inspirations that helps tranforming mankind to advance in knowledge of nature (including mankind's existence).
4) All religions (whether Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc, etc) have a name and evidences for God (or supreme authority = omnipotent!) therefore its a challenge for all religions to CLEARLY prove God's existence and manifestations respectively.
5) Let each religious group or philosophycal group stand for itself respectively as challenged by this renown atheist on this topic.
As we progress on this topic, names & attributes of ALLAH (GOD in Islam) would be fowarded and you will understand WHO IS ALLAH & ALLAH'S "GLORY!". |
Edited by - kobo on 18 Nov 2007 03:42:52 |
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Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2007 : 05:33:37
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
But frankly, any attempt to prove that 'God does not exist' is as futile as it is to prove that 'He exists'. "
Bro. Kay,
God himself proved His existence. That's why we are part of creation. Trying to prove Him not being in existence to me equals proving His existence, since you will always come across His beautiful attributes. It cannot be 'futile'. The same curiosity led this figure believing in a supreme power. If you are looking for some power and you find it, then hold tight onto it. If you look for someone and you find Him, then obviously that means He is there. If He wasn't there, then you can't find Him. But here is some good advise for you. Keep searching for it; the truth and true guidance. If ever you find that, that's the goodness i wish for you. Don't relax until you find that.
Meanwhile, excuse our lapse in exchanging threads here in the last weeks . Thank you for all the enlightenment especially the opinions which we greatly shared here for a long time. Keep the candle fire flaming up, especially in the direction of mature politics.
my regards to you 
Dalton.
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"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
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Edited by - Dalton1 on 18 Nov 2007 05:53:49 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2007 : 11:35:42
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I am not here to attempt to prove or disprove the existence of God. I do not have the prove for or against the debate. However, I believe many scientists view the concept of God in terms of the physical (and biological) laws of nature, instead of an intelligent man-like creature sitting up there deciding the fate of mankind. In Einstein's words, this is a "...God that manifests Himself in the harmony of the universe". This is perhaps the same notion articulated by Spinoza, Thales, and others before him. To come closer to home, I would mention Gambia's Dr. Peters and Kenya's Ngugi Waa Thiongo, but perhaps England's renown zoologist Richard Dawkins and others are worth mentioning too.
Most people will come to experience , or fail to experience God through a personal journey in life. The professor who abandoned his years of atheist believes as mentioned above is perhaps no different from Abu Jahal in Islam or St. Paul in Christianity, but that should not be misconstrued as prove or lack of prove of God's existence.
Intelligent design? Oh man, if you accidentally spilled ink on a piece of paper and it shaped roughly into a 'house'or a 'hill', would this be 'intelligent design'. How would we account for the 'defective universe' we live in in terms of intelligent design?
The devout faithful may not easily see the controversies inherent in the assumption of an omnipotent Almighty, but perhaps the less faithful scientific mind does to some extent.
This is not to argue against the concept of God, faith and established religion, because as Peters said, "how would this world be like withoud this great religions?". That is why I also believe that dedicated atheism is in itself a form of religious believe, by mustering so much conviction to denounce established religion atheists in effect are at risk of turning themselves into a religious group. It is futile for anyone to expend so much energy trying to prove or disprove the existence of God, but rather people might benefit more by focusing on the "manifestation of God in the harmony of all beings".
Thank you all. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 19 Nov 2007 06:27:00 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 07:56:38
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It is the same C S Lewis......
If people here are considering alternatives to religion I would suggest a look at the humanist society. There are lots of interesting books on the subject. Nothing is certain, but the debate is fudamental to the meaning we give our lives. |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 13:06:24
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Walking too long in dark tunnel and now seeing the light at the end of it while closing to his last breath
Some ambiguity here and there. i just cant follow him, next as convent to the Islam? am just not good with passim life. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 16:41:02
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
It is the same C S Lewis......
If people here are considering alternatives to religion I would suggest a look at the humanist society. There are lots of interesting books on the subject. Nothing is certain, but the debate is fudamental to the meaning we give our lives.
What is the difference between a society based on new age, new thinking, philosophy & ideology with other religions?
A good religion is backed by good philosophers & genius.
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Edited by - kobo on 19 Nov 2007 17:01:55 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 08:03:25
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Humanism is a very 'broad church'. It doesnt tell you what to do or how to live your life. It is a philosophical think tank.
It is the exact opposite of the main religions where people follow rules and recite prayers.
Also most religions view people as SINNERS that need tobe SAVED.
My view of humanity is much more compassionate and IF there is a GOD I would hope he/she is a compassionate God.
I believe that the LARGE MAJORITY of people are living the best life they can, trying hard to be 'GOOD'. Most peoples sins are very small. I dont believe in living a guilt ridden life or asking forgiveness of an unseen unknown being.
We learn from our mistakes, try to put wrongs right and move on......
Living a good life is not the sole right of religious people. Many non religious people live very good lives. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 12:13:34
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Existence GOD and manifestation of GOD'S COMMAND on Nature is a REALITY CHECK and not about religion at this juncture. Everybody is entitle direction of your own life, your own conviction, belief and choice of religion. You brought in the competition on this topic between religions by posting promoting 'Humanist' and canvassing others to convince them that they should forget about GOD and join society of 'Humanist'. That alternative 'Humanist' have all that's on following a religion by a group with common FAITH & interests.
We did not talk about SINS and you prematurely commend on it. |
Edited by - kobo on 20 Nov 2007 12:15:35 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 18:07:47
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I am not trying to convince anyone to be a Humanist, merely stated it is there as an alternative to religion.
On the other hand many Muslims have tried to convert me to Islam! |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 12:34:57
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
I am not trying to convince anyone to be a Humanist, merely stated it is there as an alternative to religion.
On the other hand many Muslims have tried to convert me to Islam!
Some of you are hypocrites and poisonous. It does not concern us to know about it (i.e those who tried to convert you to Islam, as thats a private matter). You always try to poison our minds to HATE AND BE IN CONFLICT WITH THIS RELIGION. Any topic you brought up anti-islam, anti-muslims, all sorts for us to buy your PERSONAL HATRED & FEELINGS.
Is this topic about Islam? Is it not a topic under world religions to learn and understand more about the different FAITHS and FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS (including taboos and all sorts)? |
Edited by - kobo on 23 Nov 2007 12:46:29 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 19:51:43
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Courtesy of The Point Newspaper, these powerful verses are what GOD IN ISLAM MEANS TO MUSLIMS!
"Inna Din Lahi Waa Inna Ilaihi Raage un. The proceeding Quranic verse when put to verbatim English translation means, from him (GOD) we came, and on to him (GOD) we shall return. The holy Prophet ('Rasuullah' s.aw) enjoins every Muslim to recite the above stated verse when ever strike by natural calamity of any kind including but not limited to the likes such as floods, earth quakes, inferno and death which is inevitable as reveal in the mother of all books; Kulu Nafsi jaikatul Mauti thuma Inna Ilaina Turejaun, It translates as, every living soul shall taste death before returning to thy Lord." |
Edited by - kobo on 23 Nov 2007 19:53:04 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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Serekundajock
United Kingdom
60 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2007 : 00:05:12
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I have been to a Humanist Funeral was different from the normal ones we go to. They believe when they die that they return back to the elements from which they came. Atheist's are not bad people just have a different opinion.
An atheist born and taught in say a christian country will still have the values of that religion in there lives for all time. |
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